VH-2 invalidated

[ManofTheAtom]

In Magnus Robot Fighter #0 ("the first VALIANT Universe story ever created") a kid is watching a Superman vs The Thing holo comic book.

Definitive proof that X-O Manowar could not have met Iron Man since the latter was a fictional character in the former's universe.

I think their crossover was a fanfiction story Faith Herbert wrote based on the real person she knew -- Aric -- and one of her favorite comic book characters -- Iron Man.

468937585_10160723706432267_5091273278022581705_n.jpg

469041148_10160723673517267_2473057465820854595_n.jpg

[syzhang28]

And yet, definitive proof that X-O Manowar did meet Iron Man is right here:

[ManofTheAtom]

And yet, definitive proof that X-O Manowar did meet Iron Man is right here:

The point is that it is unsupported by what came before. It contradicts it.

[syzhang28]

And yet, definitive proof that X-O Manowar did meet Iron Man is right here:

The point is that it is unsupported by what came before. It contradicts it.

pff, only if you're dogmatic and have no imagination. Literally watched a movie about roman gladiators this weekend. what? that makes rome fictional now?

[ManofTheAtom]

pff, only if you're dogmatic and have no imagination. Literally watched a movie about roman gladiators this weekend. what? that makes rome fictional now?

In what way are Romans the same as Iron Man?

The latter is most assuredly a fictional character, the former were not.

Multiple references to Marvel comics in the context of their being fictional prior to this crossover invalidate its canonicity. It's not that difficult to grasp.

[syzhang28]

pff, only if you're dogmatic and have no imagination. Literally watched a movie about roman gladiators this weekend. what? that makes rome fictional now?

In what way are Romans the same as Iron Man?

The latter is most assuredly a fictional character, the former were not.

Multiple references to Marvel comics in the context of their being fictional prior to this crossover invalidate its canonicity. It's not that difficult to grasp.

You know Valiant is fictional too right?

[ManofTheAtom]

pff, only if you're dogmatic and have no imagination. Literally watched a movie about roman gladiators this weekend. what? that makes rome fictional now?

In what way are Romans the same as Iron Man?

The latter is most assuredly a fictional character, the former were not.

Multiple references to Marvel comics in the context of their being fictional prior to this crossover invalidate its canonicity. It's not that difficult to grasp.

You know Valiant is fictional too right?

Within the FICTIONAL NARRATIVE of the VALIANT Universe, so are the Marvel and DC Universe.

[ManofTheAtom]

Maybe within the fictional narrative of the VALIANT Universe Faith developed the X-O Manowar/Iron Man video game to finance the fight against Harada.

That and a quarter got her a quarter (J/K)...

[Chiclo]

And yet, definitive proof that X-O Manowar did meet Iron Man is right here:

The point is that it is unsupported by what came before. It contradicts it.

pff, only if you're dogmatic and have no imagination. Literally watched a movie about roman gladiators this weekend. what? that makes rome fictional now?

I got blocked by an interesting crackpot who insists all over the internet that the Roman Empire was fictional.

[Chiclo]

In Magnus Robot Fighter #0 ("the first VALIANT Universe story ever created") a kid is watching a Superman vs The Thing holo comic book.

Definitive proof that X-O Manowar could not have met Iron Man since the latter was a fictional character in the former's universe.

I think their crossover was a fanfiction story Faith Herbert wrote based on the real person she knew -- Aric -- and one of her favorite comic book characters -- Iron Man.

468937585_10160723706432267_5091273278022581705_n.jpg
469041148_10160723673517267_2473057465820854595_n.jpg

I saw a tv show that featured a recurring character named Wil Wheaton. But I have been in the same room as Wil Wheaton. How can this be?

Perhaps the greatest comic crossover story of all time features Charles Barkley beating Godzilla with his basketball skills and a magical dollar coin. Is that evidence that both Godzilla and Charles Barkley must be fictional?

Is it possible that legends could pit real historical figures against legendary opponents? Just because Colonel O’neill and Teal’c are fictional does not mean that there was never an historical Lord Yu.

[ManofTheAtom]

In Magnus Robot Fighter #0 ("the first VALIANT Universe story ever created") a kid is watching a Superman vs The Thing holo comic book.

Definitive proof that X-O Manowar could not have met Iron Man since the latter was a fictional character in the former's universe.

I think their crossover was a fanfiction story Faith Herbert wrote based on the real person she knew -- Aric -- and one of her favorite comic book characters -- Iron Man.

468937585_10160723706432267_5091273278022581705_n.jpg
469041148_10160723673517267_2473057465820854595_n.jpg

I saw a tv show that featured a recurring character named Wil Wheaton. But I have been in the same room as Wil Wheaton. How can this be?

Perhaps the greatest comic crossover story of all time features Charles Barkley beating Godzilla with his basketball skills and a magical dollar coin. Is that evidence that both Godzilla and Charles Barkley must be fictional?

Is it possible that legends could pit real historical figures against legendary opponents? Just because Colonel O’neill and Teal’c are fictional does not mean that there was never an historical Lord Yu.

But the historical Lord Yu wasn't a human possessed by an alien symbiote...

[ManofTheAtom]

The argument that the holo comic is based on real people from other universes is really unfounded, though.

If nothing else, the multiple reference to other elements from the Marvel Universe in Harbinger #1 and #2 such as mutants, unstable molecules, and a danger room invalidate that theory.

[Chiclo]

In Magnus Robot Fighter #0 ("the first VALIANT Universe story ever created") a kid is watching a Superman vs The Thing holo comic book.

Definitive proof that X-O Manowar could not have met Iron Man since the latter was a fictional character in the former's universe.

I think their crossover was a fanfiction story Faith Herbert wrote based on the real person she knew -- Aric -- and one of her favorite comic book characters -- Iron Man.

468937585_10160723706432267_5091273278022581705_n.jpg
469041148_10160723673517267_2473057465820854595_n.jpg

I saw a tv show that featured a recurring character named Wil Wheaton. But I have been in the same room as Wil Wheaton. How can this be?

Perhaps the greatest comic crossover story of all time features Charles Barkley beating Godzilla with his basketball skills and a magical dollar coin. Is that evidence that both Godzilla and Charles Barkley must be fictional?

Is it possible that legends could pit real historical figures against legendary opponents? Just because Colonel O’neill and Teal’c are fictional does not mean that there was never an historical Lord Yu.

But the historical Lord Yu wasn't a human possessed by an alien symbiote...

But Lord Yu was a real historical figure in this same universe where he is also fictionally depicted on tv.

Is Mark Twain fictional because he helped save Commander Data? Abraham Lincoln appeared to Kirk in space, is he fictional? Or Moriarty? What about Stephen Hawking? He may be the only person to have played himself on Star Trek!

[ManofTheAtom]

In Magnus Robot Fighter #0 ("the first VALIANT Universe story ever created") a kid is watching a Superman vs The Thing holo comic book.

Definitive proof that X-O Manowar could not have met Iron Man since the latter was a fictional character in the former's universe.

I think their crossover was a fanfiction story Faith Herbert wrote based on the real person she knew -- Aric -- and one of her favorite comic book characters -- Iron Man.

468937585_10160723706432267_5091273278022581705_n.jpg
469041148_10160723673517267_2473057465820854595_n.jpg

I saw a tv show that featured a recurring character named Wil Wheaton. But I have been in the same room as Wil Wheaton. How can this be?

Perhaps the greatest comic crossover story of all time features Charles Barkley beating Godzilla with his basketball skills and a magical dollar coin. Is that evidence that both Godzilla and Charles Barkley must be fictional?

Is it possible that legends could pit real historical figures against legendary opponents? Just because Colonel O’neill and Teal’c are fictional does not mean that there was never an historical Lord Yu.

But the historical Lord Yu wasn't a human possessed by an alien symbiote...

But Lord Yu was a real historical figure in this same universe where he is also fictionally depicted on tv.

Is Mark Twain fictional because he helped save Commander Data? Abraham Lincoln appeared to Kirk in space, is he fictional? Or Moriarty? What about Stephen Hawking? He may be the only person to have played himself on Star Trek!

The argument you're making is that the holo comic is based on real people from other universes.

Faith making references to fictional elements from Marvel (mutants, unstable molecules, and danger rooms), the art of Jack Kirby, and receiving Batman action figures for Christmas invalidates that argument.

[Chiclo]

In Magnus Robot Fighter #0 ("the first VALIANT Universe story ever created") a kid is watching a Superman vs The Thing holo comic book.

Definitive proof that X-O Manowar could not have met Iron Man since the latter was a fictional character in the former's universe.

I think their crossover was a fanfiction story Faith Herbert wrote based on the real person she knew -- Aric -- and one of her favorite comic book characters -- Iron Man.

468937585_10160723706432267_5091273278022581705_n.jpg
469041148_10160723673517267_2473057465820854595_n.jpg

I saw a tv show that featured a recurring character named Wil Wheaton. But I have been in the same room as Wil Wheaton. How can this be?

Perhaps the greatest comic crossover story of all time features Charles Barkley beating Godzilla with his basketball skills and a magical dollar coin. Is that evidence that both Godzilla and Charles Barkley must be fictional?

Is it possible that legends could pit real historical figures against legendary opponents? Just because Colonel O’neill and Teal’c are fictional does not mean that there was never an historical Lord Yu.

But the historical Lord Yu wasn't a human possessed by an alien symbiote...

But Lord Yu was a real historical figure in this same universe where he is also fictionally depicted on tv.

Is Mark Twain fictional because he helped save Commander Data? Abraham Lincoln appeared to Kirk in space, is he fictional? Or Moriarty? What about Stephen Hawking? He may be the only person to have played himself on Star Trek!

The argument you're making is that the holo comic is based on real people from other universes.

Faith making references to fictional elements from Marvel (mutants, unstable molecules, and danger rooms), the art of Jack Kirby, and receiving Batman action figures for Christmas invalidates that argument.

They have made action figures of real people. Why wouldn’t they make action figures of real people?

You are making leaps here. That kid could have been watching an historical fiction holo.

[ManofTheAtom]

In Magnus Robot Fighter #0 ("the first VALIANT Universe story ever created") a kid is watching a Superman vs The Thing holo comic book.

Definitive proof that X-O Manowar could not have met Iron Man since the latter was a fictional character in the former's universe.

I think their crossover was a fanfiction story Faith Herbert wrote based on the real person she knew -- Aric -- and one of her favorite comic book characters -- Iron Man.

468937585_10160723706432267_5091273278022581705_n.jpg
469041148_10160723673517267_2473057465820854595_n.jpg

I saw a tv show that featured a recurring character named Wil Wheaton. But I have been in the same room as Wil Wheaton. How can this be?

Perhaps the greatest comic crossover story of all time features Charles Barkley beating Godzilla with his basketball skills and a magical dollar coin. Is that evidence that both Godzilla and Charles Barkley must be fictional?

Is it possible that legends could pit real historical figures against legendary opponents? Just because Colonel O’neill and Teal’c are fictional does not mean that there was never an historical Lord Yu.

But the historical Lord Yu wasn't a human possessed by an alien symbiote...

But Lord Yu was a real historical figure in this same universe where he is also fictionally depicted on tv.

Is Mark Twain fictional because he helped save Commander Data? Abraham Lincoln appeared to Kirk in space, is he fictional? Or Moriarty? What about Stephen Hawking? He may be the only person to have played himself on Star Trek!

The argument you're making is that the holo comic is based on real people from other universes.

Faith making references to fictional elements from Marvel (mutants, unstable molecules, and danger rooms), the art of Jack Kirby, and receiving Batman action figures for Christmas invalidates that argument.

They have made action figures of real people. Why wouldn’t they make action figures of real people?

You are making leaps here. That kid could have been watching an historical fiction holo.

It clearly says holo comics...

[Chiclo]

I saw a tv show that featured a recurring character named Wil Wheaton. But I have been in the same room as Wil Wheaton. How can this be?

Perhaps the greatest comic crossover story of all time features Charles Barkley beating Godzilla with his basketball skills and a magical dollar coin. Is that evidence that both Godzilla and Charles Barkley must be fictional?

Is it possible that legends could pit real historical figures against legendary opponents? Just because Colonel O’neill and Teal’c are fictional does not mean that there was never an historical Lord Yu.

But the historical Lord Yu wasn't a human possessed by an alien symbiote...

But Lord Yu was a real historical figure in this same universe where he is also fictionally depicted on tv.

Is Mark Twain fictional because he helped save Commander Data? Abraham Lincoln appeared to Kirk in space, is he fictional? Or Moriarty? What about Stephen Hawking? He may be the only person to have played himself on Star Trek!

The argument you're making is that the holo comic is based on real people from other universes.

Faith making references to fictional elements from Marvel (mutants, unstable molecules, and danger rooms), the art of Jack Kirby, and receiving Batman action figures for Christmas invalidates that argument.

They have made action figures of real people. Why wouldn’t they make action figures of real people?

You are making leaps here. That kid could have been watching an historical fiction holo.

It clearly says holo comics...

And historical fiction cannot be a genre of holo comics? Real historical persons cannot be mixed with fictional characters?

I would expect more imagination from you.

[ManofTheAtom]

But the historical Lord Yu wasn't a human possessed by an alien symbiote...

But Lord Yu was a real historical figure in this same universe where he is also fictionally depicted on tv.

Is Mark Twain fictional because he helped save Commander Data? Abraham Lincoln appeared to Kirk in space, is he fictional? Or Moriarty? What about Stephen Hawking? He may be the only person to have played himself on Star Trek!

The argument you're making is that the holo comic is based on real people from other universes.

Faith making references to fictional elements from Marvel (mutants, unstable molecules, and danger rooms), the art of Jack Kirby, and receiving Batman action figures for Christmas invalidates that argument.

They have made action figures of real people. Why wouldn’t they make action figures of real people?

You are making leaps here. That kid could have been watching an historical fiction holo.

It clearly says holo comics...

And historical fiction cannot be a genre of holo comics? Real historical persons cannot be mixed with fictional characters?

I would expect more imagination from you.

But in this instance neither of them would be a real historical figure. It would be a holo comic about two fictional characters, Superman from DC and the Thing from Marvel.

For it to be about a historical figure from VALIANT it would need to include Solar, Gilad, Aric, the Harbinger kids, etc. It doesn't.

You're taking a pro-VH-2 position here. Odd...

[Chiclo]

But Lord Yu was a real historical figure in this same universe where he is also fictionally depicted on tv.

Is Mark Twain fictional because he helped save Commander Data? Abraham Lincoln appeared to Kirk in space, is he fictional? Or Moriarty? What about Stephen Hawking? He may be the only person to have played himself on Star Trek!

The argument you're making is that the holo comic is based on real people from other universes.

Faith making references to fictional elements from Marvel (mutants, unstable molecules, and danger rooms), the art of Jack Kirby, and receiving Batman action figures for Christmas invalidates that argument.

They have made action figures of real people. Why wouldn’t they make action figures of real people?

You are making leaps here. That kid could have been watching an historical fiction holo.

It clearly says holo comics...

And historical fiction cannot be a genre of holo comics? Real historical persons cannot be mixed with fictional characters?

I would expect more imagination from you.

But in this instance neither of them would be a real historical figure. It would be a holo comic about two fictional characters, Superman from DC and the Thing from Marvel.

For it to be about a historical figure from VALIANT it would need to include Solar, Gilad, Aric, the Harbinger kids, etc. It doesn't.

You're taking a pro-VH-2 position here. Odd...

VH-2 is the continuation of VH-1. X-O Manowar, a Valiant character, initiates the change within the comics. No monomaniacal demands for overlooking comics needed.

Maybe the Anywhen Fold brought the cube to where Aric could find it? It was sufficient to get the goat on the Silver Surfer’s board.

[ManofTheAtom]

VH-2 is the continuation of VH-1. X-O Manowar, a Valiant character, initiates the change within the comics. No monomaniacal demands for overlooking comics needed.

Maybe the Anywhen Fold brought the cube to where Aric could find it? It was sufficient to get the goat on the Silver Surfer’s board.

X-O Manowar/Iron Man is a fanfiction story Faith Herbert wrote about her friend Aric meeting Iron Man, a fictional character from the Marvel comics she red growing up.

[ManofTheAtom]

There is a considerably far greater likelihood of Faith Herbert being aware of Xavier's school for gifted youngsters, unstable molecules, danger rooms, and the artwork of Jack Kirby from reading about them in comic books than there is of her knowing about them because she either visited the Marvel Universe herself or read about others doing it in books or saw them do it in the news.

[Chiclo]

VH-2 is the continuation of VH-1. X-O Manowar, a Valiant character, initiates the change within the comics. No monomaniacal demands for overlooking comics needed.

Maybe the Anywhen Fold brought the cube to where Aric could find it? It was sufficient to get the goat on the Silver Surfer’s board.

X-O Manowar/Iron Man is a fanfiction story Faith Herbert wrote about her friend Aric meeting Iron Man, a fictional character from the Marvel comics she red growing up.

Citation needed. Is there any reason, beyond the circumstantial "Faith said they are comics", reason to believe that this incident was fanfic but Unity was not?

[Chiclo]

There is a considerably far greater likelihood of Faith Herbert being aware of Xavier's school for gifted youngsters, unstable molecules, danger rooms, and the artwork of Jack Kirby from reading about them in comic books than there is of her knowing about them because she either visited the Marvel Universe herself or read about others doing it in books or saw them do it in the news.

Within the Marvel comics universe, there are comics of the in-universe real heroes and their real adventures, to the point that these comic retellings of their adventures are admissible in court as evidence.

You point out not a difference that divide Valiant and Marvel. You are highlighting a common point between them!

[ManofTheAtom]

VH-2 is the continuation of VH-1. X-O Manowar, a Valiant character, initiates the change within the comics. No monomaniacal demands for overlooking comics needed.

Maybe the Anywhen Fold brought the cube to where Aric could find it? It was sufficient to get the goat on the Silver Surfer’s board.

X-O Manowar/Iron Man is a fanfiction story Faith Herbert wrote about her friend Aric meeting Iron Man, a fictional character from the Marvel comics she red growing up.

Citation needed. Is there any reason, beyond the circumstantial "Faith said they are comics", reason to believe that this incident was fanfic but Unity was not?

It's not my job to prove your argument, though.

You have to provide evidence that contradicts all the references to both Marvel and DC being fictional within the VALIANT Universe (i.e., the holo comics in the 41st Century, the references to Jack Kirby, danger rooms, schools for mutants, unstable molecules, and the Batman action figures).

I don't see you arguing that Star Trek and Star Wars are real in the VALIANT Universe. You accept that they're fictional, right? You accept the references made to them in dialogue and the toys in Faith's bedroom as evidence that they are as fictional in the VALIANT Universe as they are in the real world.

Same goes for Flaming Carrot.

Now, if Faith or, really, anyone else, had been shown reading an Alien or Predator comic or watching a movie, then we could use that as evidence to contradict the crossover between Magnus and Predator, but that wasn't the case.

Same goes if she or someone else had been shown reading an Image comic to contradict Deathmate.

[ManofTheAtom]

There is a considerably far greater likelihood of Faith Herbert being aware of Xavier's school for gifted youngsters, unstable molecules, danger rooms, and the artwork of Jack Kirby from reading about them in comic books than there is of her knowing about them because she either visited the Marvel Universe herself or read about others doing it in books or saw them do it in the news.

Within the Marvel comics universe, there are comics of the in-universe real heroes and their real adventures, to the point that these comic retellings of their adventures are admissible in court as evidence.

You point out not a difference that divide Valiant and Marvel. You are highlighting a common point between them!

In real life Marvel published those comics. They portrayed how the people at "Marvels" Comics see Thor, Captain America, etc, which is NOTHING at all how they are in "real life" within the fictional narrative of the VALIANT Universe.

What "Marvels Comics" does within the Marvel Universe is akin to fanfiction.

It's not QUITE like the parody of Black Panther that appeared in Quantum & Woody, but it's also not too dissimilar from that.

What appears in those comics is based on what people know about the Marvel heroes, which is not truly factual to who they are.