Quantifiable proof of the Valiant fallen under DMG

[syzhang28]

I've pledged to the Tankers kickstarter on day one. I love the Bad idea books but Tankers isn't my favorite. I pledged because they take a lot of care in their hardcovers and they got me excited about the new stories inside.

But now I'm sitting here thinking should I pledge to the Bloodshot kickstarter. It's almost over and even the fomo isn't enough to get me convinced. Which is crazy because I love Valiant. I've loved Valiant for decades. Bloodshot is one of my all time favorite characters. I like him much more than Tankers. But Valiant is just lame. I know the story will suck. It might even make me like Bloodshot less because they'll do things out of character or make continuity mistakes. And the book will probably be made cheaply so I'll feel ripped off.

Both kickstarters started and end on the EXACT SAME DAY. I pledged to one right away, the other I can't bring myself to pledge.

And look at the total pledges

$138,000 for Tankers
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/st ... is-tankers

$23,000 for Bloodshot
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/al ... -bloodshot

How does a much more popular character who has been around for decades, was a in big movie with a movie star get absolutely trounced by a basically brand-new character?

Bad Idea is exciting. They make good stuff. I wish Dinesh and his crew from Bad Idea were back at Valiant. I know that gets said a lot and that's not what I want to say with this post, I really just want to note that this is a pretty rare example of an apples to apples comparison that has quantifiable numbers. Makes me sad.

[magnusr]

$138,000 for Tankers
$23,000 for Bloodshot
I really just want to note that this is a pretty rare example of an apples to apples comparison that has quantifiable numbers. Makes me sad.

Interesting and sad for Bloodshot. It did feel like Tankers was presented more like a luxury package. Still a remarkable difference.

/Magnus

[syzhang28]

Final numbers just furthered the gap

$144,000 for Tankers
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/st ... is-tankers

$25,000 for Bloodshot
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/al ... -bloodshot

Man, how do you not do better with a A+ character like Bloodshot...

[Ryan]

Final numbers just furthered the gap

$144,000 for Tankers
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/st ... is-tankers

$25,000 for Bloodshot
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/al ... -bloodshot

Man, how do you not do better with a A+ character like Bloodshot...

That clearly shows the Valiant characters/brands have been mismanaged, especially since DMG took over. Which is why there was hope that Alien would be a completely different direction. Unfortunately it seems that very little was changed.

Congrats to Dinesh and crew.

[syzhang28]

Final numbers just furthered the gap

$144,000 for Tankers
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/st ... is-tankers

$25,000 for Bloodshot
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/al ... -bloodshot

Man, how do you not do better with a A+ character like Bloodshot...

That clearly shows the Valiant characters/brands have been mismanaged, especially since DMG took over. Which is why there was hope that Alien would be a completely different direction. Unfortunately it seems that very little was changed.

Congrats to Dinesh and crew.

Devils advocate to my own theory in the first post. Acclaim, Shooter at Dark Key, ibooks, Dynamite DMG, Alien...that's a lot of people that have "failed" at Valiant or Gold Key. Maybe they aren't failing. Maybe this is actually success for these characters? And, Dinesh and crew are just able to do something very special. I mean, what's more believable, that Bloodshot has failed all these times or did Dinesh and crew are able to catch lightning in a bottle with Tankers and so much else that they do? I don't know. It's just so hard to believe that Bloodshot could do so much worse than a new thing like Tankers.

[nycjadie]

The bonus structures were wildly different. I thought Alien could have added some additional items or experiences to garner some excitement.

[possumgrease]

I think the OP's conclusion is correct (Valiant IP has fallen), but I'm not sure this Kickstarter comparison tells us anything significant.

If I understand this correctly, the Bloodshot series is still going to be released and available to order with your LCS/DCBS 35% discount later down the road. So this Kickstarter is just for those who want a limited variant cover? If that's the case, then there may not be that many people interest in what's being offered at Kickstarter.

[syzhang28]

I think the OP's conclusion is correct (Valiant IP has fallen), but I'm not sure this Kickstarter comparison tells us anything significant.

If I understand this correctly, the Bloodshot series is still going to be released and available to order with your LCS/DCBS 35% discount later down the road. So this Kickstarter is just for those who want a limited variant cover? If that's the case, then there may not be that many people interest in what's being offered at Kickstarter.

To continue to play devils advocate just so we can have the conversation, you could argue that its worst for Tankers because it's already been released and is freely available.

[Chiclo]

The bonus structures were wildly different. I thought Alien could have added some additional items or experiences to garner some excitement.

Tankers got nearly twice the number of backers - 691 to 398.

[syzhang28]

The bonus structures were wildly different. I thought Alien could have added some additional items or experiences to garner some excitement.

Tankers got nearly twice the number of backers - 691 to 398.

Ouch, that's a very telling statistic too. I can't believe Tankers has twice as many interested fans as Valiant.

[Ryan]

Devils advocate to my own theory in the first post. Acclaim, Shooter at Dark Key, ibooks, Dynamite DMG, Alien...that's a lot of people that have "failed" at Valiant or Gold Key. Maybe they aren't failing. Maybe this is actually success for these characters? And, Dinesh and crew are just able to do something very special. I mean, what's more believable, that Bloodshot has failed all these times or did Dinesh and crew are able to catch lightning in a bottle with Tankers and so much else that they do? I don't know. It's just so hard to believe that Bloodshot could do so much worse than a new thing like Tankers.

I think Valiant characters certainly have a steeper hill to climb, they'll always be behind Marvel and DC characters for name recognition. So the only way Valiant characters can get noticed is if the execution is notably better or different in a good way from the big 2.

[Phantom]

I think the OP's conclusion is correct (Valiant IP has fallen), but I'm not sure this Kickstarter comparison tells us anything significant.

If I understand this correctly, the Bloodshot series is still going to be released and available to order with your LCS/DCBS 35% discount later down the road. So this Kickstarter is just for those who want a limited variant cover? If that's the case, then there may not be that many people interest in what's being offered at Kickstarter.

That is probably the answer right their! One is exclusive to Kickstater - reprint with extras in a hardcover form, valiant - to be released later via comic shops.

Saying that, Bloodshot has appeared in his own film - so I would have expected more numbers. I have been watching and reading marketing related content about businesses. The pricing of the product adds - how do I say- personal value to a purchase. Sometimes (not saying Tankers and Bloodshot) similar products, with one priced higher - people value it more and pay the additional price, and hold it in higher regard than the cheaper similar product.

Maybe Bloodshot undervalued itself?

Bllodshot 398 pledges = $25,824
Tankers 691 pledges = $143, 548

Tankers more than 5 times the money with only 300 more people.

Also it feels like Bad Idea has better marketing, and presence in the marketplace.

Just some thoughts

[Phantom]

double post

[TheFerg714]

Man, I love Bad Idea, but their Kickstarter pricing is out of control. The Tankers one is $125 for 300pgs. If you do the math, that's about $22 per (standard 22pg) issue. That essentially makes the $125 price tag about double what it would cost for any other publisher. Even considering the premium hardcover format, it's simply not worth it when my comics/manga/disposable income budget is already high.

Also, have they even shipped Megalith yet? That was the one I almost shelled out for, but I think people are still b!tching about it not being mailed yet on Facebook (could be wrong on this one). I know they haven't done anything with the Burning Man "infinite" issues.

Bad Idea IS exciting and they DO make good stuff. I just wish they would make it available to the average consumer. I was the guy that was hyping them up a few years ago, and defending them for only publishing single issues in comic stores. What ever happened to that idea? Where did that publisher go?

Meanwhile, I pledged to the Bloodshot HC on day *SQUEE* one, because it's priced so that it doesn't feel like I'm getting scammed, and has some great creators involved.

As for your general point of this being tangible proof that Bad Idea has become more popular than Valiant... Well, yea... I thought that was obvious. Valiant was niche when Dinesh and co. were in charge, and now they've become even more niche. Their core fanbase moved over to Bad Idea, some other publisher, or quit comics entirely. This isn't surprising in the slightest.

[GammaJosh]

Clearly Valiant has suffered under DMG's control, but there are other contributing factors at play with these Kickstarters.

1) The mishandling of the Eternal Warrior: Scorched Earth Kickstarter probably scared people off from the Bloodshot Kickstarter specifically.

2) As others have mentioned the Bad Idea pricing is really high, but also the Bloodshot reward pricing was really reasonable...actually below average for Kickstarter comics, I believe.

3) Bad Idea seemed to be offering way more exclusive, complex and high end rewards, whereas by comparison the Bloodshot campaign kept things relatively simple.

4) And, again as others have said, the Bloodshot campaign was competing with its own book since they announced it would be available in shops. I know I personally pledged for less than I would have otherwise since I didn't want to cut my LCS out. I pledged $30 for the hardcover but my pledge probably would have been more than doubled with a full set of floppies and variants otherwise.

I actually think Alien could easily build on this and be on Bad Idea's level within another campaign or two, given the right project, creators, rewards, etc.

But first things first: they need to nail the communication and fulfillment, prove that they are trustworthy and will deliver, and leave the stigma of DMG's crappy campaign behind.