Mark Millar Stopped Netflix Buying Valiant, So The Chinese Bought It?

[Chiclo]

lets be real here.. all day at shops and cons in my town, portland, or.. all the vei books are .50, look on ebay all worthless.. they may have had more output and some decent books, but there is waaay more to comics than that..
they are not talked about outside this specific valiant fandom, which the pre u vh1 are.. none of those creators are considered legends.. it was best comic book universe devised, and captivated everyone.. the vei books were just another indie companies output and are now totally forgotten

When he isn’t being an abrasive clown, he makes some good points.

[Ryan]

This forum is a VH1 stronghold.

Seriously? This place has been the VEI insiders and true believers board since 2010 or so, until everone just disappeared soon after the DMG buyout. The Shooter and VH1 loyalists have been pushed out by the nanny-nanny-boo club for years (see this thread).

Just because a few of the holdovers from the old days have started posting again while 95% of the VEI fans have disappeared into thin air doesn't make this place VH1 stronghold.

And is pretty dead. VEI gets talked about more than VH1 but I don't think that actually means much. We've discussed all the VH1 discussions here already. Why rehash? VEI still has discussions to be had.

No one is stopping these discussions from happening, they just don't happen organically like how it was here from 2002-10.

2. It's not yet time. It's barely been a decade since VEI started. A decade after VH1 it was deader the dead. NO conversation.

You obviously weren't there. 10 years after VH1 started was 2001, The internet was in its infancy, but there were already a lot of discussions being had on various places like Yahoo groups, AOL chat, etc. In 2002 this board was created to give everyone a place to discuss together and there was instantly a ton of people and great discussions being had. 02-04 were some of the best discussions on this board, unfortunately they were lost to a bad server.

10 years after VH1 ended was 2006. At that time there were probably more posts per day here than there are in 3-6 months now.

3. DMG and Alien really make it hard to love Valiant right now and that means most people don't really feel the urge to talk about the characters. Better books will result in more conversation.

Why do VEI fans hate DMG/Alien so much? It's a continuation of the universe you supposedly love with strong continuity and using some of the same writers (Abnett, Van Lente). They read a lot like Kindt-type books to me. Yeah maybe the art isn't as good, but it's servicable and the story should matter more anyway.

[Ryan]

I love VH1 but I think VEI is better personally. It's like Terminator 1 or Terminator 2. Which is better? No answer, they are both amazing. Personal preference.

Except it's not like that at all, T2 is a direct sequel to T1 whereas VEI is a reboot of VH1 using many of the same plot points.

A better comparison would be Lee/Ditko Spider-Man vs. Bendis/Bagley Ultimate Spider-Man.

[Ryan]

Why aren't people reading and discussing it like VH1? I have three answers.

1. They are and more than VH1 is being discussed today. Just not here, check out Valiant on Facebook, discord, telegram. Lots of chatter about the great VEI books.

I'll take your word for that, because I don't use those platforms.

You'll also have to take my word for it that since I've been discussing Valiant comics online since 1999 on Yahoo Groups (with SonicDan, MotA, BoH, B3 Studios, Barry Reese, and others), I've never seen it this dead. And that's with new comics actually coming out on an almost weekly basis! Who would've thought this is how it would turn out.

I know there were many great things about VEI. The last few years I've only been more focused on figuring out what didn't click with people about the VEI comics in an effort to hopefully get the next incarnation of Valiant to learn from the good and bad of all the previous incarnations (VH1, 2, VEI, etc.) to work toward making an even better Valiant that would click with even more people. But it's becoming clear that any chance of that has long since passed.

[Dallow Spicer1]

lets be real here.. all day at shops and cons in my town, portland, or.. all the vei books are .50, look on ebay all worthless.. they may have had more output and some decent books, but there is waaay more to comics than that..
they are not talked about outside this specific valiant fandom, which the pre u vh1 are.. none of those creators are considered legends.. it was best comic book universe devised, and captivated everyone.. the vei books were just another indie companies output and are now totally forgotten

Let’s not equate the price of books with quality. You can buy non-key Alan Moore Swamp Thing and Neil Gaiman dirt cheap where’s the latest tiny variation of Green Goblin, or a new Bat family member or Super Uncle twice removed new character might fetch decent dollar …the fact that it’s unreadable garbage is by the by!

Plus, as we all know, comic popularity happens in cycles…50 cent books can quickly hike in value with the latest rumour or film release. X-Force #1 (Deadpool trading card version) is apparently now a $10 book even though 7 billion were printed and it wasn’t even particularly good

[valiantdude]

Even if that were true, or if you're quoting legal documents which I don't have in front of me to verify, again it would be far less likely to happen when working for a company that loves you. wouldnt have happened. I'm sure when the company was treating him like s***, Jim had access to the rights and tried to make it happen around them as an exit strategy from a situation that was sucking the life out of him..
That could be entirely possible and it may have actually happened that way, however my point is is that if they were treating him correctly we would be in a different reality. That was again the Fatal error

[Ryan]

Even if that were true, or if you're quoting legal documents which I don't have in front of me to verify, again it would be far less likely to happen when working for a company that loves you. wouldnt have happened. I'm sure when the company was treating him like s***, Jim had access to the rights and tried to make it happen around them as an exit strategy from a situation that was sucking the life out of him..
That could be entirely possible and it may have actually happened that way, however my point is is that if they were treating him correctly we would be in a different reality. That was again the Fatal error

That was definitely the window of opportunity for Valiant to shoot to the top again. Imagine the best of the old (Shooter, Hall, etc.) with more of the old characters/continuity combined with the modern production values, eye-catching art, great promotion and commitment to quality that VEI had. Throw in Shooter's connections to get Solar/Magnus/Turok back. Wow that would've been the dream.

But in reality there were already issues with that dream even in 2008. Unity 2000 wasn't very good or well received. Harbinger The Beginning hardcover had garish, poor re-coloring, and the new 8 page backup story was lackluster. The Legion of Superheroes relaunch by Shooter was luke-warm as well.

IMO the dream scenario would have been to have Shooter as a well paid and respected Editorial Consultant/continuity cop, a top story kibitzer but not actually writing any titles himself. Mix in old and new talent. Find more people who have a true passion for the Valiant characters, and less comic book careerists who are just looking for a foot in the door to get into Marvel/DC or promote their Image book. Get enough people who have an irrational love for the Valiant universe and it would rub off on the others.

[syzhang28]

Even if that were true, or if you're quoting legal documents which I don't have in front of me to verify, again it would be far less likely to happen when working for a company that loves you. wouldnt have happened. I'm sure when the company was treating him like s***, Jim had access to the rights and tried to make it happen around them as an exit strategy from a situation that was sucking the life out of him..
That could be entirely possible and it may have actually happened that way, however my point is is that if they were treating him correctly we would be in a different reality. That was again the Fatal error

Bury your head in the sand and worship at the feet of a guy who has literally been lambasted and thrown out of every company he has worked for including his own. Meanwhile Dinesh seems to have a stellar reputation and people keep working with him from one company to the next. Your fantasy that if Jim was in his right to literally do illegal things because he wasn't treated like a king is insane. I'm done here. No point in wasting time with someone that isn't open minded enough for a good faith discussion or respectful enough to the process to even do the minimal research of googling the legal document. I'm sorry Shooter isn't able to keep a job long enough to put out a comic anymore but at least he's still able to do the podunk convention circuit making $5 at a time signing comics from his decades ago glory days.

[Ryan]

Bury your head in the sand and worship at the feet of a guy who has literally been lambasted and thrown out of every company he has worked for including his own. Meanwhile Dinesh seems to have a stellar reputation and people keep working with him from one company to the next. Your fantasy that if Jim was in his right to literally do illegal things because he wasn't treated like a king is insane. I'm done here. No point in wasting time with someone that isn't open minded enough for a good faith discussion or respectful enough to the process to even do the minimal research of googling the legal document. I'm sorry Shooter isn't able to keep a job long enough to put out a comic anymore but at least he's still able to do the podunk convention circuit making $5 at a time signing comics from his decades ago glory days.

He lasted long enough at Marvel to lead their second golden age and long enough at Valiant to create the foundation for their biggest successes, but yeah let's kick the 72 year old man for having to do the con circuit to make money because people more business savvy and cutthroat than him got filthy rich off his stories.

I have no doubt he has flaws and seems like he could be a hard guy to work with at times, but dang you'd think hardcore Valiant fans would at least have respect for the guy.

Another side-effect of the full reboot, an already niche and shrinking fanbase is split into opposing sides.

[valiantdude]

only because bcb, the superfan, blew it.
they treated him like *SQUEE*.
notice dinesh doesnt say *SQUEE*, and we allll heard jims stories about vei from the podcast episode.

cmon dinesh were the og's.. were one of the first 5 people on the board.. i was the first poster ever.

tell us what you tell other people when they ask about this.

and someone asked why dark key failed... same reason!!! reboot!! mike richardson blew that as well.. what did he tell jim??. do everything different.. when are people going to learn? no one wanted different we wanted the pre u versions of solar, magnus, and turok.. picked up in the valiant universe..

and btw jim gets $20 a sig now..

[syzhang28]

only because bcb, the superfan, blew it.
they treated him like *SQUEE*.
notice dinesh doesnt say *SQUEE*, and we allll heard jims stories about vei from the podcast episode.

cmon dinesh were the og's.. were one of the first 5 people on the board.. i was the first poster ever.

tell us what you tell other people when they ask about this.

and someone asked why dark key failed... same reason!!! reboot!! mike richardson blew that as well.. what did he tell jim??. do everything different.. when are people going to learn? no one wanted different we wanted the pre u versions of solar, magnus, and turok.. picked up in the valiant universe..

and btw jim gets $20 a sig now..

Shooter is a famous liar and maker up of stories. Dinesh famously doesn't *SQUEE* talk. I imagine he's taking the same high road the original Valiant crew like Layton, Windsor-Smith and Lapham are. If everyone else is the bad guy, then Jim, you're actually the bad guy.

Go back and read interviews from darkkey. Richardson gave Shooter complete freedom. No one wanted pre u versions? Guess what, Shooter did. It failed, just like everything he touched since he was pushed out of Valiant. He takes all the credit for Valiant but it was clearly a team of very talented people working together. The best evidence is that he hasn't been able to do one good thing since.

[Ryan]

If you're going to Shooter bash, at least get some of the facts right.

I imagine he's taking the same high road the original Valiant crew like Layton, Windsor-Smith and Lapham are. If everyone else is the bad guy, then Jim, you're actually the bad guy.

Lapham left the stability of Valiant to join Jim at Defiant, so you can't put him in that group. Clearly not everybody hates working with the guy.

No one wanted pre u versions? Guess what, Shooter did.

I think he meant everyone wanted the pre-U versions. It's understandable, you obviously weren't around here in the old days.

It failed, just like everything he touched since he was pushed out of Valiant. He takes all the credit for Valiant but it was clearly a team of very talented people working together. The best evidence is that he hasn't been able to do one good thing since.

I do agree to the extent that Valiant's success wasn't only Shooter, it was a great alchemy of talents and personalities that made them great. But Shooter was the driving force behind it up until Unity, that's obvious by just reading the books with a close eye and seeing how many things changed quickly after Unity.

It's debatable that he hasn't done anything good since. Defiant has always had a cult following. I think Broadway is great. But yeah, nothing that had the success of Valiant though. That could also be said about Layton, BWS, or anyone else involved.

I don't get where all the anger is coming from. You guys won. You got 6 solid years of VEI, Dinesh got bought out for a ton of money and gets to continue making whatever comics they want with Bad Idea with a much bigger audience due to Valiant, and the VEI universe continues to this day in new ongoing comics.

But ya'll aren't content with that, it's not enough, you have to try to bury his legacy and how impactful pre-Unity was.

Doesn't fit with the narrative that VEI did better than VH1 in every phase. And yet all the fans disappeared and no one reads them

[valiantdude]

dude.. thats all bad info.. complete freedom, but do everything differently.. again, that's not what people wanted.

and btw there are a hell of a lot of people that were jealous of jim.. period.. because he stood up to peoples bullstuff.

Jim Shooter created the valiant universe.. 90%.. the books were super dumb after jim left - you'll never know the feeling of reading rai #0 the first time in 1992 after unity, and just being gobsmacked by fiction.

It was the culmination of that type of comic.. defiant had some killer comics.. warriors of plasm is in the top 5 greatest comics of all time.. that comic is why people like comics..

but the artform is *SQUEE* now, and has been for a long time.

BONUS: i still have the DVDs that dinesh was selling on this forum in 2004 that had all the scans of the VH1 books - his handwriting even.. it was $10 well spent at the time..

[syzhang28]

If you're going to Shooter bash, at least get some of the facts right.

I imagine he's taking the same high road the original Valiant crew like Layton, Windsor-Smith and Lapham are. If everyone else is the bad guy, then Jim, you're actually the bad guy.

Lapham left the stability of Valiant to join Jim at Defiant, so you can't put him in that group. Clearly not everybody hates working with the guy.

No one wanted pre u versions? Guess what, Shooter did.

I think he meant everyone wanted the pre-U versions. It's understandable, you obviously weren't around here in the old days.

It failed, just like everything he touched since he was pushed out of Valiant. He takes all the credit for Valiant but it was clearly a team of very talented people working together. The best evidence is that he hasn't been able to do one good thing since.

I do agree to the extent that Valiant's success wasn't only Shooter, it was a great alchemy of talents and personalities that made them great. But Shooter was the driving force behind it up until Unity, that's obvious by just reading the books with a close eye and seeing how many things changed quickly after Unity.

It's debatable that he hasn't done anything good since. Defiant has always had a cult following. I think Broadway is great. But yeah, nothing that had the success of Valiant though. That could also be said about Layton, BWS, or anyone else involved.

I don't get where all the anger is coming from. You guys won. You got 6 solid years of VEI, Dinesh got bought out for a ton of money and gets to continue making whatever comics they want with Bad Idea with a much bigger audience due to Valiant, and the VEI universe continues to this day in new ongoing comics.

But ya'll aren't content with that, it's not enough, you have to try to bury his legacy and how impactful pre-Unity was.

Doesn't fit with the narrative that VEI did better than VH1 in every phase. And yet all the fans disappeared and no one reads them

Lapham has said he has mixed feelings about Jim but won't share his feelings beyond the work. Pretty damning when you can't find a nice thing to say about someone other than 'he pays me'

I bought pre unity off the rack kid. Don't give me that 'i wasnt there'

Defiant couldn't get arrested at a comic shop. Neither can broadway. BWS just won like 30 Eisners and made one of the most important comics of the decade. I think you're living in 94.

No anger. I don't like to see people bashing good guys and parroting the narrative twisting lies of the bad guys. Even if I love those bad guys work. I guess I'm a bit like David Lapham.

It's not about winning. I am a fan of both VH1 and VEI. If you guys were on here bashing VH1 I'd be defending it.

Valiant under DMG and Alien has put out a all-time template of how to sink a brand...and yet the fans are still there. When that happened at VH1, they were not.

[syzhang28]

dude.. thats all bad info.. complete freedom, but do everything differently.. again, that's not what people wanted.

and btw there are a hell of a lot of people that were jealous of jim.. period.. because he stood up to peoples bullstuff.

Jim Shooter created the valiant universe.. 90%.. the books were super dumb after jim left - you'll never know the feeling of reading rai #0 the first time in 1992 after unity, and just being gobsmacked by fiction.

It was the culmination of that type of comic.. defiant had some killer comics.. warriors of plasm is in the top 5 greatest comics of all time.. that comic is why people like comics..

but the artform is *SQUEE* now, and has been for a long time.

BONUS: i still have the DVDs that dinesh was selling on this forum in 2004 that had all the scans of the VH1 books - his handwriting even.. it was $10 well spent at the time..

You're the one with bad info

Warrior of plasm is absolutely not one of the top 5 greatest comics of all time.

And that was Steve G who sold those DVDs in 2004.

This is exactly what I'm saying, you guys have it wrong and are susceptible to the mythology building Shooter is infamous for. So infamous, he's been pushed out of the industry he spent his life in.

[Chiclo]

dude.. thats all bad info.. complete freedom, but do everything differently.. again, that's not what people wanted.

and btw there are a hell of a lot of people that were jealous of jim.. period.. because he stood up to peoples bullstuff.

Jim Shooter created the valiant universe.. 90%.. the books were super dumb after jim left - you'll never know the feeling of reading rai #0 the first time in 1992 after unity, and just being gobsmacked by fiction.

It was the culmination of that type of comic.. defiant had some killer comics.. warriors of plasm is in the top 5 greatest comics of all time.. that comic is why people like comics..

but the artform is *SQUEE* now, and has been for a long time.

BONUS: i still have the DVDs that dinesh was selling on this forum in 2004 that had all the scans of the VH1 books - his handwriting even.. it was $10 well spent at the time..

You're the one with bad info

Warrior of plasm is absolutely not one of the top 5 greatest comics of all time.

And that was Steve G who sold those DVDs in 2004.

This is exactly what I'm saying, you guys have it wrong and are susceptible to the mythology building Shooter is infamous for. So infamous, he's been pushed out of the industry he spent his life in.

Are there any comics that have been published in the last 5 years, not just Valiant but in the whole industry, better than Warriors of the Plasm?

[syzhang28]

dude.. thats all bad info.. complete freedom, but do everything differently.. again, that's not what people wanted.

and btw there are a hell of a lot of people that were jealous of jim.. period.. because he stood up to peoples bullstuff.

Jim Shooter created the valiant universe.. 90%.. the books were super dumb after jim left - you'll never know the feeling of reading rai #0 the first time in 1992 after unity, and just being gobsmacked by fiction.

It was the culmination of that type of comic.. defiant had some killer comics.. warriors of plasm is in the top 5 greatest comics of all time.. that comic is why people like comics..

but the artform is *SQUEE* now, and has been for a long time.

BONUS: i still have the DVDs that dinesh was selling on this forum in 2004 that had all the scans of the VH1 books - his handwriting even.. it was $10 well spent at the time..

You're the one with bad info

Warrior of plasm is absolutely not one of the top 5 greatest comics of all time.

And that was Steve G who sold those DVDs in 2004.

This is exactly what I'm saying, you guys have it wrong and are susceptible to the mythology building Shooter is infamous for. So infamous, he's been pushed out of the industry he spent his life in.

Are there any comics that have been published in the last 5 years, not just Valiant but in the whole industry, better than Warriors of the Plasm?

You can't be serious

[TheFerg714]

It's *SQUEE* hilarious how valiantdude conveniently forgets how sh!tty the Shooter Gold Key Dark Horse Comics were.

Why do VEI fans hate DMG/Alien so much? It's a continuation of the universe you supposedly love with strong continuity and using some of the same writers (Abnett, Van Lente). They read a lot like Kindt-type books to me. Yeah maybe the art isn't as good, but it's servicable and the story should matter more anyway.

I've really enjoyed Alien's tenure so far. It's not nearly on the same level as VEI, but it's also a huge improvement over the drivel that DMG was giving us.

Valiant under DMG and Alien has put out a all-time template of how to sink a brand...and yet the fans are still there. When that happened at VH1, they were not.

What's grinding your gears so much about Alien? Granted it's been a slow start, and nothing has matched the highs of VEI yet, but I think they're making some great decisions so far.

I don't get where all the anger is coming from. You guys won. You got 6 solid years of VEI, Dinesh got bought out for a ton of money and gets to continue making whatever comics they want with Bad Idea with a much bigger audience due to Valiant, and the VEI universe continues to this day in new ongoing comics.

I don't think it's hate man. I think people are simply comparing, which inevitably leads to choosing a side they prefer.

[Ryan]

I don't get where all the anger is coming from. You guys won. You got 6 solid years of VEI, Dinesh got bought out for a ton of money and gets to continue making whatever comics they want with Bad Idea with a much bigger audience due to Valiant, and the VEI universe continues to this day in new ongoing comics.

I don't think it's hate man. I think people are simply comparing, which inevitably leads to choosing a side they prefer.

Good points. I'm glad you're giving Alien a chance.

Are there any comics that have been published in the last 5 years, not just Valiant but in the whole industry, better than Warriors of the Plasm?

I agree with you, but I also don't read many modern comics. The pacing and other aspects are a turn off, I never feel satisfied after reading them. This may point to a generation gap that's part of the disconnect. But there's also a reason comics went from being a huge business and part of youth culture to the extremely niche market it is now.

[valiantdude]

last post for me on this topic - it was dinesh selling the dvds . i still have them with the envelope. but who cares? just funny footnote

thank you goodnight, and lastly... its not netflixs fault chi-liant exists, it's dinesh's

[Dallow Spicer1]

Are there any comics that have been published in the last 5 years, not just Valiant but in the whole industry, better than Warriors of the Plasm?

Is this for real Chiclo? If so, I’m hunting it down. I remember seeing these in bargain bins years ago, the weird font and cover didn’t appeal but if you give it your stamp of approval then I’ll check it out!

[TheFerg714]

Are there any comics that have been published in the last 5 years, not just Valiant but in the whole industry, better than Warriors of the Plasm?

Is this for real Chiclo? If so, I’m hunting it down. I remember seeing these in bargain bins years ago, the weird font and cover didn’t appeal but if you give it your stamp of approval then I’ll check it out!

I'm thinking the same thing. I've listened through most OTV episodes twice, and I don't remember anyone ever talking about this Plasm series. If they're not being sarcastic, I'm so down.

[syzhang28]

It's *SQUEE* hilarious how valiantdude conveniently forgets how sh!tty the Shooter Gold Key Dark Horse Comics were.

Why do VEI fans hate DMG/Alien so much? It's a continuation of the universe you supposedly love with strong continuity and using some of the same writers (Abnett, Van Lente). They read a lot like Kindt-type books to me. Yeah maybe the art isn't as good, but it's servicable and the story should matter more anyway.

I've really enjoyed Alien's tenure so far. It's not nearly on the same level as VEI, but it's also a huge improvement over the drivel that DMG was giving us.

Valiant under DMG and Alien has put out a all-time template of how to sink a brand...and yet the fans are still there. When that happened at VH1, they were not.

What's grinding your gears so much about Alien? Granted it's been a slow start, and nothing has matched the highs of VEI yet, but I think they're making some great decisions so far.

I don't get where all the anger is coming from. You guys won. You got 6 solid years of VEI, Dinesh got bought out for a ton of money and gets to continue making whatever comics they want with Bad Idea with a much bigger audience due to Valiant, and the VEI universe continues to this day in new ongoing comics.

I don't think it's hate man. I think people are simply comparing, which inevitably leads to choosing a side they prefer.

I agree, I like the decisions Alien are making. FVL is back, Jody Houser is back, they're doing an event. I haven't seen it bare fruit in a big way yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it does shortly. I am cautious of being let down but optimistic. We could use a win.

[syzhang28]

I don't get where all the anger is coming from. You guys won. You got 6 solid years of VEI, Dinesh got bought out for a ton of money and gets to continue making whatever comics they want with Bad Idea with a much bigger audience due to Valiant, and the VEI universe continues to this day in new ongoing comics.

I don't think it's hate man. I think people are simply comparing, which inevitably leads to choosing a side they prefer.

Good points. I'm glad you're giving Alien a chance.

Are there any comics that have been published in the last 5 years, not just Valiant but in the whole industry, better than Warriors of the Plasm?

I agree with you, but I also don't read many modern comics. The pacing and other aspects are a turn off, I never feel satisfied after reading them. This may point to a generation gap that's part of the disconnect. But there's also a reason comics went from being a huge business and part of youth culture to the extremely niche market it is now.

I don't think storytelling is anything to do with it. It's the massive competition from other entertainment, its the changing face of paper vs digital, its huge rise in trades and piracy, its the ubiquitous nature of the same type of storytelling in movies, tv and video games etc.

Or maybe magazines and newspapers also became niche because they don't write those just like they did in the summer of 1992 too?

[syzhang28]

last post for me on this topic - it was dinesh selling the dvds . i still have them with the envelope. but who cares? just funny footnote

thank you goodnight, and lastly... its not netflixs fault chi-liant exists, it's dinesh's

You still have the envelope? Pictures then.

Dinesh manifested Valiant back from the grave through sheer willpower and work ethic. He did it like literally no one on the planet could. He did it incredibly well and humbly. He found a way to honor the past and pave a new future. One that no one could see. He did it for years. He birthed a new generation of creators. He expanded the Valiant universe in ideas and characters so greatly that its hard to remember just how so many of those characters and ideas weren't VH1. A feat I struggle to even think of a another example of in all of comics...but yeah, *SQUEE* that guy. He should have let Jim Shooter do it. This time Jim wouldn't have *SQUEE* it up right? 5th times the charm.