Can anyone tell me how Aric Dacia Dies in X-O Manowar Book68

[ManofTheAtom]

2. ANY story can become ANYTHING through the power of COMPREHENSION. What do I mean by this? Any writer can have a "take" or "understanding". If I were to write 12 issue of a new series of my own creation and then say "yo, Mike, take it from here" (for the next12)...whatever and I do mean WHATEVER you wanted to do would then become "cannon" for that period. Let's say that when your run ended, I returned. I could then BUILD on your work IN ANY WAY I WANTED TO. Just because it wasn't how you thought it should play out, doesn't mean it isn't how it IS playing out. Now, to connect this to the VU.

That's the problem.

Instead of being like you say, with each writer solely bringing their own vision to the story (which many times tends to be contradictory to the concept itself) it should be more like a relay race, in which one writer passes the batton to the other to keep the story going. The relay writer gets to bring his own vision to the concept but without contradicting it at the same time that they keep the story going, instead of falling into the very commun problem of repetition.

Many writers at DC and Marvel come to a series with the perception that they can do whatever they want to as long as they put things back to how they were when they found them.

This only guarantees that there is zero progression in the story and keeps the characters running in circles.

For instance, with Superman one can sum up the last decade worth of stories as "Superman fights Zod, Superman fights Brainiac, and Superman gets a new origin", because those three things are the only thing that has happened to the character over the last 10 years. Every time a new writer comes into the series, they have Superman fight Zod, they have him fight Brainiac, and they give him a new origin.

That's what happens with the mentality you bring up.

With VALIANT we have the opportunity to have things be different.

We know where the characters need to be positioned in 12 years (Archer in 2020), 20 years (Bloodshot in 2038), and even 56 years (Aric in 2064).

Certain stories need to occur in order for the characters to reach those landmarks (i.e. Archer has to marry Flamingo and they have to create the Archies. Someone has to build a moonbase where Bloodshot has his final stand, and Aric has to met whoever it is that will become his wife and they'll have children together).

These stories can only happen with the "relay race" model (or something similar) as that way the writers can work together towards the commun goal and position the characters were they need to be in order to reach them.

What I describe is more commun on television that it is in comics.

No one writer has ever written a tv series on his own. TV shows are written by teams of writers who are overseen by what is called a show runner (the television equivalent of an editor).

Babylon 5, which had a five year arc that required the characters to reach certain goals and landmarks throughout its duration before the last episode, is an example of what I'm talking about.

JMS didn't write all of B5 on his own (though he did write all of season 3 on his own), he worked alongside other writers and, together, they developed the characters and passed the batton amongst them to make sure that the show followed his vision.

Now, granted, Jim Shooter isn't at VALIANT anymore, but that doesn't mean that VEI can't follow his vision, and in point of fact, if they did maybe they might reach the same kind of quality as we had pre Unity. Remember, he was the creative force behind it and it was after he left that certain things lost that quality and became something different.

Having writers come in to do whatever the hell they want without regard to the story long as they leave things the way they found them when they leave is boring, it's cliche, it's what DC and Marvel do.

VEI must be different, they must offer an alternative to the tired *SQUEE* on the stands.

The story for the dawn of the new VU could be that whatever caused all the wierdness for the titles around the time of BQ was not just the act of bad writing (although, imo, it was) but that there was a PURPOSE, one that, due to cancellation and the lack of solid editorial cooridination, never got told.

What new VALIANT Universe?

The new stories take place on the one and only VALIANT Universe.

Can you tell me where you saw that there is going to be a new VALIANT Universe that would require a new beginning, or what makes you judge VEI in the abstract despite the new stories?

NOW, the tale CAN be told. Into this the new writers can plug whatever they need IN ORDER to rescue things. Yes, they can still "use" BQ material, but they can do so in a variety of ways. For XO, it could all have been VR. For Solar, who is now gone..."The man in the red suit left and never came back". I don't know if they could get away with even that little bit, or if they would have to-as I think they have to find something to replace SOLAR-but...there are ways. Bloodshot could have had some sort of programming where he lived a nightmarish final few months and upon his "death"...well...how to say this...He never died. What we saw was "programming" which ended with his becoming a weapon for a government agency. Now, he's broken free of the programming and is trying to make up for lost time. These are just some examples of the sorts of things that they could do.

Nothing you mention requires a new start, it only requires picking up from the last issues.

Why would that require a new justification for the universe?

As for the "binding event"...it could be whatever they want it to be, something which would respect what came before and allow new stories to be built. Who knows, maybe the even could even be used to explain why there is no Solar/Magnus/Turok, anymore. Something along the lines of, and this is very basic, just a ALONG THE LINES, mind you, of "everything went weird, the world isn't right, things are missing, nothing is the same anymore." Wait...isn't that sort of what parts of PG are doing?

None of that is required. The VALIANT Universe has already been established, they just need to tell new stories in it.

The cosmic stuff is dead. DC beat it to death with all their crap.

VALIANT needs to refocus on the only things is that important: CHARACTERS.

Not cosmic justifications for why issue 13 is no longer valid, or dimensional crossovers to explain how X-O Manowar met Iron Man. They need to get back to telling stories about the VALIANT characters, which unlike the DC and Marvel characters have certain landmarks to reach in their stories as seen in Rai #0.

I believe that it is possible to make silk out of the sows ear of BQ and that to show things as "not being real" isn't a copout, especially if it is done within the "ground rules" of VALIANT and somehow, maybe as "what you saw happening wasn't the WAY you thought it was happening." What I'm saying is, they can recast the stories and still "respect" what has come before. Being locked in by every detail is BAD.

The details are part of the story. It's the context that needs to be fixed in order to make those details work within the VALIANT ground rules.

Ignoring what happened is what DC and Marvel would do, but VALIANT isn't DC or Marvel. They have to do things differently, they have to offer people something different than the competition. If they offer them the same tired pile of *SQUEE* no one is going to give a damn about what they do.

If VALIANT offered the same as DC and Marvel, why would people bother with them?

I'll give you an example. Take a look at Paul Revere's engraving of the Boston Massacre. Notice the little dog at the bottom. Notice how it was a nice spring day. Notice how the British officer in charge is IN FRONT of his men as they fire. Now realize this. The dog was not there. It was at NIGHT and it happened in the dead of winter. Captain Preston was shown in court to be standing BEHIND his men and incapable of having given the order to fire. What am I trying to say here? Wait...stop looking at the frame. Stop looking at the dog. And realize that the facts you THINK you know can, and are, very very often, not what you THINK they are.

WHY is this necessary in order to tell new stories?

You're trying to justify pandering to the fanboys and ignore stuff they didn't like in order to have replacement stories.

STOP existing in the past and look toward the future. There is NO need to rewrite the stories that came before in order to tell new ones. That is a cowardly and egocentric way to approach the subject.

In order to come up with new stories which fit into VALIANT...certain things may have to give, but it doesn't mean there is a betrayal. It means, like in so many other things, that what you believed was true, wasn't. What if, say, DC did a storyline where Clark Kent discovered that Krypton didn't die the way he always thought it had? Yes, it was still destroyed, yes, he's the last of his kind, but new facts have surfaced. There's nothing WRONG with this.

Why do certain things have to give way? What is the reason?

To pander to fanboys? To pander to writers who are too lazy to be creative?

There are creative ways to get past the hurdles brought upon by the Birthquake stuff that don't require a reset or a reboot or a rewrite.

Comics need more creative people, writers who are willing to step up to the challenge instead of cowards who use the very-easy to employ rewrite/reset/reboot.

To ignore new evidence is stupid. If you are sitting on death row, but you KNOW you are innocent, do you just say "oh well, too bad. Guess I'm gonna die" or do you try to prove that you did not commit the crime you were charged with? And, when the evidence finally surfaces which would exhonerate you, do you tell the authorities "sorry, but you guys just didn't know about that before now. I guess that means it never really existed, so I guess I have to die." Nope. There are ways around the trash of BQ which, rather than destroying things, could enrich them. I don't know what VEI has planned, but the fact that so many possibilities exist is very enticing.

They can enrich them without rewriting them as you suggest.

In the case of X-O Manowar, a simple alteration of context is more than enough to fix the problems with the last issues.

With Bloodshot, the ending gives way to a well of possiblities. To ignore it through a rewrite closes the door on it.

As for Solar, Turok, and Magnus, I've said it countless times.

Solar merged with a sun, Turok is in the Lost Land, and Magnus is lost in time.

Whenever VEI can use those characters, all they have to do is have Solar split from the sun, Turok return from the Lost Land, and Magnus pop up back in the timestream, be it in the present or sometime after the 41st Century.

[xodacia81]

I said nothing about a "new" VU as in a "new universe" but was ref'g whatever new books we DO get. I also never said that anyone could have a free for all. BUT, however, this is how YOU understood me to mean, which goes to show what I was talking about. What I am saying is that we COULD get rid of the very bad stuff at the end of BQ, not by ignoring it, but by treating it other than as "we saw exactly what was happening." I ask you, have you NEVER seen the movie Rashomon? Same thing. Different perspectives. What we saw, was perhaps not ALL of the story and whatever the other side is, could explain things AND, at the same time, remove the obstacles lying in the way to having the stories we deserve.

[ManofTheAtom]

I said nothing about a "new" VU as in a "new universe" but was ref'g whatever new books we DO get. I also never said that anyone could have a free for all. BUT, however, this is how YOU understood me to mean, which goes to show what I was talking about. What I am saying is that we COULD get rid of the very bad stuff at the end of BQ, not by ignoring it, but by treating it other than as "we saw exactly what was happening." I ask you, have you NEVER seen the movie Rashomon? Same thing. Different perspectives. What we saw, was perhaps not ALL of the story and whatever the other side is, could explain things AND, at the same time, remove the obstacles lying in the way to having the stories we deserve.

Which is what I've been saying all along about how instead of Crescendo, the Image-like big boobed queen from Egypt, being the one that captured Aric it be Doug Freedman, the original owner of Orb Industries.

That doesn't require ignoring anything that came before, rewriting old issues, or a cosmic-like being, which has been the topic at hand.

Btw, I saw Vantage Point.

[xodacia81]

I said nothing about a "new" VU as in a "new universe" but was ref'g whatever new books we DO get. I also never said that anyone could have a free for all. BUT, however, this is how YOU understood me to mean, which goes to show what I was talking about. What I am saying is that we COULD get rid of the very bad stuff at the end of BQ, not by ignoring it, but by treating it other than as "we saw exactly what was happening." I ask you, have you NEVER seen the movie Rashomon? Same thing. Different perspectives. What we saw, was perhaps not ALL of the story and whatever the other side is, could explain things AND, at the same time, remove the obstacles lying in the way to having the stories we deserve.

Which is what I've been saying all along about how instead of Crescendo, the Image-like big boobed queen from Egypt, being the one that captured Aric it be Doug Freedman, the original owner of Orb Industries.

That doesn't require ignoring anything that came before, rewriting old issues, or a cosmic-like being, which has been the topic at hand.

Btw, I saw Vantage Point.

Me too. Liked it, but I think it ended too quickly. Still, not a bad first feature film for its director.

[ManofTheAtom]

I said nothing about a "new" VU as in a "new universe" but was ref'g whatever new books we DO get. I also never said that anyone could have a free for all. BUT, however, this is how YOU understood me to mean, which goes to show what I was talking about. What I am saying is that we COULD get rid of the very bad stuff at the end of BQ, not by ignoring it, but by treating it other than as "we saw exactly what was happening." I ask you, have you NEVER seen the movie Rashomon? Same thing. Different perspectives. What we saw, was perhaps not ALL of the story and whatever the other side is, could explain things AND, at the same time, remove the obstacles lying in the way to having the stories we deserve.

Which is what I've been saying all along about how instead of Crescendo, the Image-like big boobed queen from Egypt, being the one that captured Aric it be Doug Freedman, the original owner of Orb Industries.

That doesn't require ignoring anything that came before, rewriting old issues, or a cosmic-like being, which has been the topic at hand.

Btw, I saw Vantage Point.

Me too. Liked it, but I think it ended too quickly. Still, not a bad first feature film for its director.

Agreed.

[yardstick]

isn't the god-like persona trying to fix things-exactly what erica pierce was attempting at unity? i think that that is a far better solution...virtual reality and assuming another's persona is down to earth?

How about "Erica Pierce wins"?

[yardstick]

PG is just a fanfic, it's not an official comic book from VEI. That much is a fact.

I thought I read in another thread that Playing God was commissioned from VEI and whether or not it is "canon" was still up in the air? Maybe I misread that.

As for how Valiant can best do things... that is a thread that I'm pretty sure has been gone over and over. I was just talking about the "What if it was the PG way" not even really knowing where they're going with it.

Could Valiant come up with some massively inventive, never before thought of way to relaunch without erasing anything? Sure. But, I believe that putting your expectations too high is going to leave you disappointed no matter what. I would like to see them keep all past stories, but I am also open to the idea that they may have to start somewhere in the middle and I have no problem with them voiding out Rai #0 (I know... blasphemy). The reason why is because it takes too much of the mystery out of the stories. If Archer gets put in a situation of danger, the reader isn't even remotely phased, because they know that Archer doesn't die until such and such time, such and such way. I prefer the surprise death. Rai #0 was a great read, and one of my favorite Valiant comics, but I do think it revealed more than what I wanted to know that far in advance. /blasphemy

If I recall correctly (MOTA please correct me here) Rai 0 has nothing to do with Unity? So discarding Rai 0 is not necessary since it primarily deals with Shadowman, the Harbinger Wars, annd Bloodshot/Rai

[ManofTheAtom]

PG is just a fanfic, it's not an official comic book from VEI. That much is a fact.

I thought I read in another thread that Playing God was commissioned from VEI and whether or not it is "canon" was still up in the air? Maybe I misread that.

As for how Valiant can best do things... that is a thread that I'm pretty sure has been gone over and over. I was just talking about the "What if it was the PG way" not even really knowing where they're going with it.

Could Valiant come up with some massively inventive, never before thought of way to relaunch without erasing anything? Sure. But, I believe that putting your expectations too high is going to leave you disappointed no matter what. I would like to see them keep all past stories, but I am also open to the idea that they may have to start somewhere in the middle and I have no problem with them voiding out Rai #0 (I know... blasphemy). The reason why is because it takes too much of the mystery out of the stories. If Archer gets put in a situation of danger, the reader isn't even remotely phased, because they know that Archer doesn't die until such and such time, such and such way. I prefer the surprise death. Rai #0 was a great read, and one of my favorite Valiant comics, but I do think it revealed more than what I wanted to know that far in advance. /blasphemy

If I recall correctly (MOTA please correct me here) Rai 0 has nothing to do with Unity? So discarding Rai 0 is not necessary since it primarily deals with Shadowman, the Harbinger Wars, annd Bloodshot/Rai

Rai 0 is a sequel of sorts to Unity as, in the present, it picks up with Rokkie taking Takao to the ruins of Japan, and, in the past, it picks up with Geoff releasing Bloodshot.

Geoff even says that Unity messed up the timeline and it was the Geomancer's job to fix it. What we see in Rai 0 is the correct timeline of events.

[Asharad]

http://www.valiantentertainment.com/wik ... 93_Part_II

There's a summary of what happens in the issue for when you'd like to read it.

There is a typo (for whomever maintains this wiki). "Fist–Among–Equals" in the 6th paragraph of Birth. It should read "First-Among-Equals"

[slym2none]

"Fist–Among–Equals"

That was the porno that Gilad did.





-slym

[Ryan]

Could Valiant come up with some massively inventive, never before thought of way to relaunch without erasing anything? Sure. But, I believe that putting your expectations too high is going to leave you disappointed no matter what. I would like to see them keep all past stories, but I am also open to the idea that they may have to start somewhere in the middle and I have no problem with them voiding out Rai #0 (I know... blasphemy). The reason why is because it takes too much of the mystery out of the stories. If Archer gets put in a situation of danger, the reader isn't even remotely phased, because they know that Archer doesn't die until such and such time, such and such way. I prefer the surprise death. Rai #0 was a great read, and one of my favorite Valiant comics, but I do think it revealed more than what I wanted to know that far in advance. /blasphemy

Exactly

[Ryan]

Could Valiant come up with some massively inventive, never before thought of way to relaunch without erasing anything? Sure. But, I believe that putting your expectations too high is going to leave you disappointed no matter what. I would like to see them keep all past stories, but I am also open to the idea that they may have to start somewhere in the middle and I have no problem with them voiding out Rai #0 (I know... blasphemy). The reason why is because it takes too much of the mystery out of the stories. If Archer gets put in a situation of danger, the reader isn't even remotely phased, because they know that Archer doesn't die until such and such time, such and such way. I prefer the surprise death. Rai #0 was a great read, and one of my favorite Valiant comics, but I do think it revealed more than what I wanted to know that far in advance. /blasphemy

Exactly

That's one of the main reasons in new VH1 stories I would lean towards keeping most of Post-Chaos Effect and even Post-Birthquake intact, and instead writing Rai 0 out of continuity.

1. It would bring unpredictability back.

2. Rai 0 was only intended as a way to bridge the 1992 and 4001 continuities together. It is not a good roadmap for what the VH1 characters should be doing in the 2020s. They had to gloss over our current era with things like 'not much happened' and characters 'falling off the face of the Earth' because they were limited by a 22 page comic and they obviously hadn't written the universe that far out.

3. It was only a story told by a Geomancer in the year 4001. Geomancers are not all-knowing, they can get things wrong, be deceived, have incomplete knowledge, or be knowingly withholding information.

4. The Valiant Universe can be altered by huge energy events and beings, as seen in Solar Alpha and Omega and Unity. I would argue that Chaos Effect also had that massive altering effect on VH1, rendering Rai 0 obsolete.

[ManofTheAtom]

Could Valiant come up with some massively inventive, never before thought of way to relaunch without erasing anything? Sure. But, I believe that putting your expectations too high is going to leave you disappointed no matter what. I would like to see them keep all past stories, but I am also open to the idea that they may have to start somewhere in the middle and I have no problem with them voiding out Rai #0 (I know... blasphemy). The reason why is because it takes too much of the mystery out of the stories. If Archer gets put in a situation of danger, the reader isn't even remotely phased, because they know that Archer doesn't die until such and such time, such and such way. I prefer the surprise death. Rai #0 was a great read, and one of my favorite Valiant comics, but I do think it revealed more than what I wanted to know that far in advance. /blasphemy

Exactly

That's one of the main reasons in new VH1 stories I would lean towards keeping most of Post-Chaos Effect and even Post-Birthquake intact, and instead writing Rai 0 out of continuity.

1. It would bring unpredictability back.

2. Rai 0 was only intended as a way to bridge the 1992 and 4001 continuities together. It is not a good roadmap for what the VH1 characters should be doing in the 2020s. They had to gloss over our current era with things like 'not much happened' and characters 'falling off the face of the Earth' because they were limited by a 22 page comic and they obviously hadn't written the universe that far out.

3. It was only a story told by a Geomancer in the year 4001. Geomancers are not all-knowing, they can get things wrong, be deceived, have incomplete knowledge, or be knowingly withholding information.

4. The Valiant Universe can be altered by huge energy events and beings, as seen in Solar Alpha and Omega and Unity. I would argue that Chaos Effect also had that massive altering effect on VH1, rendering Rai 0 obsolete.

Geomancers merely relate what the Earth tells them. They are its eyes, ears, and, obviously, voice.

[Ryan]

Geomancers merely relate what the Earth tells them. They are its eyes, ears, and, obviously, voice.

Does the Earth speak with only one voice, or are there many voices coming from the many different aspects of Earth? Is the Earth omniscient and all-knowing about humans and their ways? Can it read into people's minds or just relate what it saw? Is the Earth some sort of eternal presence that never forgets or does time affect its memory?

See, when we're talking about completely made up sciences that only have a few lines of dialogue to explain how they work, there's always a lot of gray area and need for interpretation. That's why its fiction and not a real science.

[ManofTheAtom]

Geomancers merely relate what the Earth tells them. They are its eyes, ears, and, obviously, voice.

Does the Earth speak with only one voice, or are there many voices coming from the many different aspects of Earth? Is the Earth omniscient and all-knowing about humans and their ways? Can it read into people's minds or just relate what it saw? Is the Earth some sort of eternal presence that never forgets or does time affect its memory?

See, when we're talking about completely made up sciences that only have a few lines of dialogue to explain how they work, there's always a lot of gray area and need for interpretation. That's why its fiction and not a real science.

The Earth would have one voice since it is one sentient being, not many.

We go back to the established fact that with the exception of Archer's and Jack's deaths every single thing shown in Rai #0 was corroborated as happening as it was depicted in that one comic in many others I listed the other day.

Since those events were recounted correctly, there is no reason to believe the same would not be true for these two.

[ManofTheAtom]

Not only do you have Geomancers recounting the events of the 2000 years between Solar and Magnus, but you also have immortals like Gilad and Aram who lived through them.

When it comes to Bloodshot and his Blood of Heroes, the Geomancers are not the sole source of information.

Both Grandmother in Secrets of the VALIANT Universe #3 and Bloodshot's own nanites in Rai #31 corroborated either the same or different parts of the story recounted in Rai #0.

Add to that what Ivar said about how history cannot be changed. Don't worry about stepping on a butterfly because history says you already did it.

[Ryan]

Not only do you have Geomancers recounting the events of the 2000 years between Solar and Magnus, but you also have immortals like Gilad and Aram who lived through them.

When it comes to Bloodshot and his Blood of Heroes, the Geomancers are not the sole source of information.

Both Grandmother in Secrets of the VALIANT Universe #3 and Bloodshot's own nanites in Rai #31 corroborated either the same or different parts of the story recounted in Rai #0.

Add to that what Ivar said about how history cannot be changed. Don't worry about stepping on a butterfly because history says you already did it.

As fun as it is, I don't have time to go around in circles. I stand by what I said, most of post-Unity is not well written sci-fi and for every corroboration you point out there are even more contradictions.

It's fiction, not fact, everyone is allowed to form their own interpretation.

[ManofTheAtom]

Not only do you have Geomancers recounting the events of the 2000 years between Solar and Magnus, but you also have immortals like Gilad and Aram who lived through them.

When it comes to Bloodshot and his Blood of Heroes, the Geomancers are not the sole source of information.

Both Grandmother in Secrets of the VALIANT Universe #3 and Bloodshot's own nanites in Rai #31 corroborated either the same or different parts of the story recounted in Rai #0.

Add to that what Ivar said about how history cannot be changed. Don't worry about stepping on a butterfly because history says you already did it.

As fun as it is, I don't have time to go around in circles. I stand by what I said, most of post-Unity is not well written sci-fi and for every corroboration you point out there are even more contradictions.

It's fiction, not fact, everyone is allowed to form their own interpretation.

It is that thinking that causes the contradictions.

That's how VALIANT went from "when a character sneezes in one comic, a character in another comic hands them a tissue" to Vincent Van Goat being on a first name-basis with the Legion of Super-Heroes.

[Chiclo]

Geomancers merely relate what the Earth tells them. They are its eyes, ears, and, obviously, voice.

Does the Earth speak with only one voice, or are there many voices coming from the many different aspects of Earth? Is the Earth omniscient and all-knowing about humans and their ways? Can it read into people's minds or just relate what it saw? Is the Earth some sort of eternal presence that never forgets or does time affect its memory?

See, when we're talking about completely made up sciences that only have a few lines of dialogue to explain how they work, there's always a lot of gray area and need for interpretation. That's why its fiction and not a real science.

The Earth would have one voice since it is one sentient being, not many.

We go back to the established fact that with the exception of Archer's and Jack's deaths every single thing shown in Rai #0 was corroborated as happening as it was depicted in that one comic in many others I listed the other day.

Since those events were recounted correctly, there is no reason to believe the same would not be true for these two.

How sure are we that the Earth speaks with a single voice? Can there be disagreement within the Earth, as an intellect?

[Chiclo]

Not only do you have Geomancers recounting the events of the 2000 years between Solar and Magnus, but you also have immortals like Gilad and Aram who lived through them.

When it comes to Bloodshot and his Blood of Heroes, the Geomancers are not the sole source of information.

Both Grandmother in Secrets of the VALIANT Universe #3 and Bloodshot's own nanites in Rai #31 corroborated either the same or different parts of the story recounted in Rai #0.

Add to that what Ivar said about how history cannot be changed. Don't worry about stepping on a butterfly because history says you already did it.

As fun as it is, I don't have time to go around in circles. I stand by what I said, most of post-Unity is not well written sci-fi and for every corroboration you point out there are even more contradictions.

It's fiction, not fact, everyone is allowed to form their own interpretation.

It is that thinking that causes the contradictions.

That's how VALIANT went from "when a character sneezes in one comic, a character in another comic hands them a tissue" to Vincent Van Goat being on a first name-basis with the Legion of Super-Heroes.

According to the board rules, as soon as you (specifically you, MotA) make this argument, you have lost the argument.

http://www.valiantfans.com/motaslaw.htm

[Ryan]

Not only do you have Geomancers recounting the events of the 2000 years between Solar and Magnus, but you also have immortals like Gilad and Aram who lived through them.

When it comes to Bloodshot and his Blood of Heroes, the Geomancers are not the sole source of information.

Both Grandmother in Secrets of the VALIANT Universe #3 and Bloodshot's own nanites in Rai #31 corroborated either the same or different parts of the story recounted in Rai #0.

Add to that what Ivar said about how history cannot be changed. Don't worry about stepping on a butterfly because history says you already did it.

As fun as it is, I don't have time to go around in circles. I stand by what I said, most of post-Unity is not well written sci-fi and for every corroboration you point out there are even more contradictions.

It's fiction, not fact, everyone is allowed to form their own interpretation.

It is that thinking that causes the contradictions.

That's how VALIANT went from "when a character sneezes in one comic, a character in another comic hands them a tissue" to Vincent Van Goat being on a first name-basis with the Legion of Super-Heroes.

According to the board rules, as soon as you (specifically you, MotA) make this argument, you have lost the argument.

http://www.valiantfans.com/motaslaw.htm

GOT 'IM!

[Ryan]

Geomancers merely relate what the Earth tells them. They are its eyes, ears, and, obviously, voice.

Does the Earth speak with only one voice, or are there many voices coming from the many different aspects of Earth? Is the Earth omniscient and all-knowing about humans and their ways? Can it read into people's minds or just relate what it saw? Is the Earth some sort of eternal presence that never forgets or does time affect its memory?

See, when we're talking about completely made up sciences that only have a few lines of dialogue to explain how they work, there's always a lot of gray area and need for interpretation. That's why its fiction and not a real science.

The Earth would have one voice since it is one sentient being, not many.

We go back to the established fact that with the exception of Archer's and Jack's deaths every single thing shown in Rai #0 was corroborated as happening as it was depicted in that one comic in many others I listed the other day.

Since those events were recounted correctly, there is no reason to believe the same would not be true for these two.

How sure are we that the Earth speaks with a single voice? Can there be disagreement within the Earth, as an intellect?

[ManofTheAtom]

The Earth would have one voice since it is one sentient being, not many.

We go back to the established fact that with the exception of Archer's and Jack's deaths every single thing shown in Rai #0 was corroborated as happening as it was depicted in that one comic in many others I listed the other day.

Since those events were recounted correctly, there is no reason to believe the same would not be true for these two.

How sure are we that the Earth speaks with a single voice? Can there be disagreement within the Earth, as an intellect?

I think the fact that except for two events all others occurred as recounted in Rai #0 shows that the Earth wasn't wrong about what happened when it recounted them to the Geomancers.

[ManofTheAtom]

Not only do you have Geomancers recounting the events of the 2000 years between Solar and Magnus, but you also have immortals like Gilad and Aram who lived through them.

When it comes to Bloodshot and his Blood of Heroes, the Geomancers are not the sole source of information.

Both Grandmother in Secrets of the VALIANT Universe #3 and Bloodshot's own nanites in Rai #31 corroborated either the same or different parts of the story recounted in Rai #0.

Add to that what Ivar said about how history cannot be changed. Don't worry about stepping on a butterfly because history says you already did it.

As fun as it is, I don't have time to go around in circles. I stand by what I said, most of post-Unity is not well written sci-fi and for every corroboration you point out there are even more contradictions.

It's fiction, not fact, everyone is allowed to form their own interpretation.

It is that thinking that causes the contradictions.

That's how VALIANT went from "when a character sneezes in one comic, a character in another comic hands them a tissue" to Vincent Van Goat being on a first name-basis with the Legion of Super-Heroes.

According to the board rules, as soon as you (specifically you, MotA) make this argument, you have lost the argument.

http://www.valiantfans.com/motaslaw.htm

[etos45]

….Vincent Van Goat being on a first name-basis with the Legion of Super-Heroes.

That’s it!! I was trying to remember this quote last week to make a joke about something. lol!


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