VH 1 Geomancer

[ManofTheAtom]

It would have been interesting to see how the comics tackled the inclusion of Clay McHenry into the Geomancer lineage.

Presumably, had things gone differently than they did, Geoff would have someday returned from the Lost Land in order and lived the life we saw him lead in Rai #0, in which he marries and has a granchild, Yolanda.

But where does Clay McHenry fit into that? He would have to have died, no?

Was Gilad premature in choosing someone to replace Geoff, though? It's not like his being in the Lost Land cut him off from the whispers of the Earth. He could still hear them during Unity. Presumably, the Earth would still be connected to Geoff.

[Ryan]

It would have been interesting to see how the comics tackled the inclusion of Clay McHenry into the Geomancer lineage.

Presumably, had things gone differently than they did, Geoff would have someday returned from the Lost Land in order and lived the life we saw him lead in Rai #0, in which he marries and has a granchild, Yolanda.

But where does Clay McHenry fit into that? He would have to have died, no?

Was Gilad premature in choosing someone to replace Geoff, though? It's not like his being in the Lost Land cut him off from the whispers of the Earth. He could still hear them during Unity. Presumably, the Earth would still be connected to Geoff.

I always interpreted the end of Chaos Effect with the recreation of the Lost Land as being a deliberate break away from the 'Rai #0 continuity'. It would explain all of the many Rai 0 contradictions that happen post-CE and especially during Birthquake.

I fully understand that you're a Rai 0 absolutist, and that's cool. I'm just offering up an alternate interpretation of late VH1 that other people may have also had.

It would be interesting to ask Layton what they were trying to do post-CE. It seemed to me like they felt constrained by Rai 0 and wanted to be able to write the stories without fitting them all into it's timeline. Especially post-BQ, nothing felt like it was being written with Rai 0 in mind.

[magnusr]

But where does Clay McHenry fit into that? He would have to have died, no?

Nothing strange with more than one geomancer. Feels like many (most?) have had trainees. And didn't Zorn have some limited geomancer abilities even before he was tempted by the book?

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

It would have been interesting to see how the comics tackled the inclusion of Clay McHenry into the Geomancer lineage.

Presumably, had things gone differently than they did, Geoff would have someday returned from the Lost Land in order and lived the life we saw him lead in Rai #0, in which he marries and has a granchild, Yolanda.

But where does Clay McHenry fit into that? He would have to have died, no?

Was Gilad premature in choosing someone to replace Geoff, though? It's not like his being in the Lost Land cut him off from the whispers of the Earth. He could still hear them during Unity. Presumably, the Earth would still be connected to Geoff.

I always interpreted the end of Chaos Effect with the recreation of the Lost Land as being a deliberate break away from the 'Rai #0 continuity'. It would explain all of the many Rai 0 contradictions that happen post-CE and especially during Birthquake.

I fully understand that you're a Rai 0 absolutist, and that's cool. I'm just offering up an alternate interpretation of late VH1 that other people may have also had.

It would be interesting to ask Layton what they were trying to do post-CE. It seemed to me like they felt constrained by Rai 0 and wanted to be able to write the stories without fitting them all into it's timeline. Especially post-BQ, nothing felt like it was being written with Rai 0 in mind.

Well, by the time of Birthquake it had all turned to *SQUEE*, lol.

But, yeah, I'm definitely a Rai #0 absolutists and will try to force it all to fit, lol. Even if it requires a mallet...

[ManofTheAtom]

It would have been interesting to see how the comics tackled the inclusion of Clay McHenry into the Geomancer lineage.

Presumably, had things gone differently than they did, Geoff would have someday returned from the Lost Land in order and lived the life we saw him lead in Rai #0, in which he marries and has a granchild, Yolanda.

But where does Clay McHenry fit into that? He would have to have died, no?

Was Gilad premature in choosing someone to replace Geoff, though? It's not like his being in the Lost Land cut him off from the whispers of the Earth. He could still hear them during Unity. Presumably, the Earth would still be connected to Geoff.

My bad. Yolanda was Geoff's niece. So, how were they related?

Since her last name was Montez then Clay could not have been her father.

[ManofTheAtom]

But where does Clay McHenry fit into that? He would have to have died, no?

Nothing strange with more than one geomancer. Feels like many (most?) have had trainees. And didn't Zorn have some limited geomancer abilities even before he was tempted by the book?

/Magnus

I'm pretty sure it was one Geomancer at a time, though. Clay would have to step down as primary. Maybe the Earth can choose to remove their ability to hear its whispers? He need not have necessarily died, but certainly just stopped being Geomancer.

[magnusr]

I'm pretty sure it was one Geomancer at a time, though. Clay would have to step down as primary. Maybe the Earth can choose to remove their ability to hear its whispers? He need not have necessarily died, but certainly just stopped being Geomancer.

Yeah, stepping down definitely. And yes, the Earth can remove abilities. It happened to the first geomancer, who turned evil.

/Magnus

[magnusr]

My bad. Yolanda was Geoff's niece. So, how were they related?

Since her last name was Montez then Clay could not have been her father.

Had Clay been her father, they would have been cousins since Clay was an uncle of Geoff (and Buck was great uncle of them both, somehow).

How is it in English? Can niece and uncle refer to more distant relatives? If not, I guess Geoff had a younger sister who was never shown in the comics.

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

My bad. Yolanda was Geoff's niece. So, how were they related?

Since her last name was Montez then Clay could not have been her father.

Had Clay been her father, they would have been cousins since Clay was an uncle of Geoff (and Buck was great uncle of them both, somehow).

How is it in English? Can niece and uncle refer to more distant relatives? If not, I guess Geoff had a younger sister who was never shown in the comics.

/Magnus

Something is certainly up.

[ManofTheAtom]

I'm pretty sure it was one Geomancer at a time, though. Clay would have to step down as primary. Maybe the Earth can choose to remove their ability to hear its whispers? He need not have necessarily died, but certainly just stopped being Geomancer.

Yeah, stepping down definitely. And yes, the Earth can remove abilities. It happened to the first geomancer, who turned evil.

/Magnus

Ah, cool. Forgot that.

[Ryan]

Well, by the time of Birthquake it had all turned to *SQUEE*, lol.

But, yeah, I'm definitely a Rai #0 absolutists and will try to force it all to fit, lol. Even if it requires a mallet...

I get that, I used to be a pre-Unity absolutist but I've come around to appreciating more of post-Unity the last few years.

If a VH1 relaunch was up to me, I'd go with a looser interpretation of Rai 0. But it's not up to me .

Definitely the best (only?) way for all of VH1 to make sense is to ignore or retcon most of post-BQ and some of post-CE, going back to the couple of years after Rai 0 when things held together relatively well.

[ManofTheAtom]

Well, by the time of Birthquake it had all turned to *SQUEE*, lol.

But, yeah, I'm definitely a Rai #0 absolutists and will try to force it all to fit, lol. Even if it requires a mallet...

I get that, I used to be a pre-Unity absolutist but I've come around to appreciating more of post-Unity the last few years.

If a VH1 relaunch was up to me, I'd go with a looser interpretation of Rai 0. But it's not up to me .

Definitely the best (only?) way for all of VH1 to make sense is to ignore or retcon most of post-BQ and some of post-CE, going back to the couple of years after Rai 0 when things held together relatively well.

Some retcons would absolutely be necessary, yeah, heh.

[Chiclo]

Well, by the time of Birthquake it had all turned to *SQUEE*, lol.

But, yeah, I'm definitely a Rai #0 absolutists and will try to force it all to fit, lol. Even if it requires a mallet...

I get that, I used to be a pre-Unity absolutist but I've come around to appreciating more of post-Unity the last few years.

If a VH1 relaunch was up to me, I'd go with a looser interpretation of Rai 0. But it's not up to me .

Definitely the best (only?) way for all of VH1 to make sense is to ignore or retcon most of post-BQ and some of post-CE, going back to the couple of years after Rai 0 when things held together relatively well.

Some retcons would absolutely be necessary, yeah, heh.

Retcons? Time is not absolute but Rai 0 is very absolute.

[Ryan]

Some retcons would absolutely be necessary, yeah, heh.

I think, at this point, it wouldn't be necessary to explain away all the inconsistencies. Just make it so that all the major events of VH1 'happened', and just ignore the things that don't fit or make sense. Not many were reading or will remember the post-BQ stories anyway. Isn't it mostly post-BQ X-O and Solar that have problems? I haven't read most of post-BQ in ages.

Retcons? Time is not absolute but Rai 0 is very absolute.

I was just thinking this morning that Unity was about Erica trying to 'fix' reality because Solar had ruined it by making it comic-booky (paraphrasing), and the Lost Land was the only place where time was absolute.

Since she wasn't successful in fixing reality, it would make sense that their reality would continue to deteriorate and get more and more comic-booky as time went on. Which would explain (in-story) how postUnity-Birthquake-VH2-VEI-DMG-Alien exist as a plethora of mostly incompatible comic-booky iterations.

Why I think about these things in the morning is beyond me.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think, at this point, it wouldn't be necessary to explain away all the inconsistencies. Just make it so that all the major events of VH1 'happened', and just ignore the things that don't fit or make sense. Not many were reading or will remember the post-BQ stories anyway. Isn't it mostly post-BQ X-O and Solar that have problems? I haven't read most of post-BQ in ages.

If it can be explained, there is nothing to be lost by doing so.

Explaining X-0 #68, for instance, can expand the narrative. Plus, such explanations further separate VALIANT from the typical DC and Marvel comic, in which such things would just be ignored. Like when Punisher came back from Hell but then they completely ignore it like it never happened.

Retcons? Time is not absolute but Rai 0 is very absolute.

I was just thinking this morning that Unity was about Erica trying to 'fix' reality because Solar had ruined it by making it comic-booky (paraphrasing), and the Lost Land was the only place where time was absolute.

Since she wasn't successful in fixing reality, it would make sense that their reality would continue to deteriorate and get more and more comic-booky as time went on. Which would explain (in-story) how postUnity-Birthquake-VH2-VEI-DMG-Alien exist as a plethora of mostly incompatible comic-booky iterations.

Why I think about these things in the morning is beyond me.

It makes sense, though. Unfortunate as that may be, However, it was the Geomancer's task to fix things, so that is what any explanation would be centered on.

[Ryan]

If it can be explained, there is nothing to be loss by doing so.

Explaining X-0 #68, for instance, can expand the narrative. Plus, such explanations further separate VALIANT from the typical DC and Marvel comic, in which such things would just be ignored. Like when Punisher came back from Hell but then they completely ignore it like it never happened.

It makes sense, though. Unfortunately as that may be, However, it was the Geomancer's task to fix things, so that is what any explanation would be centered on.

True. Any explanation that would unify all of Valiant would need a Geomancer, and I believe the Lost Land. The Turok license would be nice, but not necessary. In GK Turok, it was called the Lost Valley, and "lost worlds" have been a common trope since the beginning of sci-fi.

[ManofTheAtom]

If it can be explained, there is nothing to be loss by doing so.

Explaining X-0 #68, for instance, can expand the narrative. Plus, such explanations further separate VALIANT from the typical DC and Marvel comic, in which such things would just be ignored. Like when Punisher came back from Hell but then they completely ignore it like it never happened.

It makes sense, though. Unfortunately as that may be, However, it was the Geomancer's task to fix things, so that is what any explanation would be centered on.

True. Any explanation that would unify all of Valiant would need a Geomancer, and I believe the Lost Land. The Turok license would be nice, but not necessary. In GK Turok, it was called the Lost Valley, and "lost worlds" have been a common trope since the beginning of sci-fi.

Not sure the Lost Land would be required. Its only purpose is to create a bridge between different eras. The Geomancers don't need that to fix the linear path of history. The Earth itself keeps them on that path.

[Ryan]

Not sure the Lost Land would be required. Its only purpose is to create a bridge between different eras. The Geomancers don't need that to fix the linear path of history. The Earth itself keeps them on that path.

In my version it would. But hey we're all allowed to have our own versions of fantasy fan fiction for dead universes.

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[ManofTheAtom]

Not sure the Lost Land would be required. Its only purpose is to create a bridge between different eras. The Geomancers don't need that to fix the linear path of history. The Earth itself keeps them on that path.

In my version it would. But hey we're all allowed to have our own versions of fantasy fan fiction for dead universes.


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Sure. I'll just point out that what Mothergod is saying refers to time not moving in the Lost Land. That would not help Geomancers ensure the linear passage of time outside it, where it does pass.

Remember, something about the Lost Land being the like center of the clock that holds the hands together. That part never moves while the hands do.

Geomancers, to continue the metaphor, would ensure that the hands move in chronological order from 1 through 12 rather than skip numbers and jump around.

[Ryan]

Not sure the Lost Land would be required. Its only purpose is to create a bridge between different eras. The Geomancers don't need that to fix the linear path of history. The Earth itself keeps them on that path.

In my version it would. But hey we're all allowed to have our own versions of fantasy fan fiction for dead universes.


Screenshot 2024-06-09 143356.png

Screenshot 2024-06-09 143714.png

Sure. I'll just point out that what Mothergod is saying refers to time not moving in the Lost Land. That would not help Geomancers ensure the linear passage of time outside it, where it does pass.

Remember, something about the Lost Land being the like center of the clock that holds the hands together. That part never moves while the hands do.

Geomancers, to continue the metaphor, would ensure that the hands move in chronological order from 1 through 12 rather than skip numbers and jump around.

"Wreaking havoc throughout existence" and "Two Erica Pierces in the same reality" clearly indicate that not just time has been altered, but the very fabric of existence, including multiple iterations of the same people that could break reality.

It's right there in the text, in one of the most foundational VH1 comics. I'm not saying everyone else has to interpret it that way that I do, but it's enough for me to not have such a narrow interpretation of VH1 and the larger Valiant universe(s).

[ManofTheAtom]

Not sure the Lost Land would be required. Its only purpose is to create a bridge between different eras. The Geomancers don't need that to fix the linear path of history. The Earth itself keeps them on that path.

In my version it would. But hey we're all allowed to have our own versions of fantasy fan fiction for dead universes.


Screenshot 2024-06-09 143356.png

Screenshot 2024-06-09 143714.png

Sure. I'll just point out that what Mothergod is saying refers to time not moving in the Lost Land. That would not help Geomancers ensure the linear passage of time outside it, where it does pass.

Remember, something about the Lost Land being the like center of the clock that holds the hands together. That part never moves while the hands do.

Geomancers, to continue the metaphor, would ensure that the hands move in chronological order from 1 through 12 rather than skip numbers and jump around.

"Wreaking havoc throughout existence" and "Two Erica Pierces in the same reality" clearly indicate that not just time has been altered, but the very fabric of existence, including multiple iterations of the same people that could break reality.

It's right there in the text, in one of the most foundational VH1 comics. I'm not saying everyone else has to interpret it that way that I do, but it's enough for me to not have such a narrow interpretation of VH1 and the larger Valiant universe(s).

The accident that gave Phil and Erica their powers caused them to go back in time, where they encountered their past selves. The same accident was what changed the single universe so now there were immortals, harbingers, time arcs, and the like.