VALIANT Heroes Whose Futures Were Not Shown in Rai #0

[Ryan]

Too close to Starship Troopers.

Got me there

That would be awesome.

Thanks man!

No problem.

Ideally the fates of many of the old Vh1 characters would be revealed, much like Rai #0. But also setting up other characters for new stories. For example, Ninjak is killed but his son, Conor King-Chan, who grew up estranged in Hong Kong, takes up the Ninjak mantle and continues the fight against Silk. Just like Rai 0 was all done to set up the new Rai. We'll get Bob Hall on the pencils, it'll be a blast!

[ManofTheAtom]

Too close to Starship Troopers.

Got me there

That would be awesome.

Thanks man!

No problem.

Ideally the fates of many of the old Vh1 characters would be revealed, much like Rai #0. But also setting up other characters for new stories. For example, Ninjak is killed but his son, Conor King-Chan, who grew up estranged in Hong Kong, takes up the Ninjak mantle and continues the fight against Silk. Just like Rai 0 was all done to set up the new Rai. We'll get Bob Hall on the pencils, it'll be a blast!

Ninjak vs Rai. The ninja and the samurai.

[Ryan]

Ninjak vs Rai. The ninja and the samurai.

Would love to see that. Could be an early Rai (or maybe a precursor, like the original Rising Spirit was going to be) depending on the year this takes place.

[Ryan]

There's Ninjak, Timewalker, the Armorines, Doctor Mirage, the Secret Weapons (either iteration), and Turok (he had a sort of cameo from his later appearance in Secret Weapons #1, but we don't really know what happened to him).

Any theories?

Going back to the original question, for what Turok's would be. I think he would end up back in the Lost Land permanently, and would become king of a tribe there. Just like Conan, would love to see his later adventures as King Turok.

[Ryan]

Regarding my idea for a 'VALIANT Classic' line that would consist of one comic per month that's set in the 90's VH1 continuity, there is a recent precedent for that idea working if you look at how IDW handled the G.I. Joe license.

Most of the G.I. Joe series they produced were set in a modern, rebooted IDW continuity. Then they had one series, 'G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero', that was written by Larry Hama and set in the 80/90's Marvel continuity.

I think readers are savvy enough to understand the difference, and I think having both continuities active would help all of the versions of the Valiant heroes gain more fans. It would grow the brand, and having the 90's continuity active again would also help sell the 90's reprint collections, as those stories would become relevant again.

[ManofTheAtom]

There's Ninjak, Timewalker, the Armorines, Doctor Mirage, the Secret Weapons (either iteration), and Turok (he had a sort of cameo from his later appearance in Secret Weapons #1, but we don't really know what happened to him).

Any theories?

Going back to the original question, for what Turok's would be. I think he would end up back in the Lost Land permanently, and would become king of a tribe there. Just like Conan, would love to see his later adventures as King Turok.

Turok was alive during Magnus' time (Magnus #12) AND he was the forefather of a tribe of people in South America (Malev War) at the SAME time because of the Lost Land.

[ManofTheAtom]

Regarding my idea for a 'VALIANT Classic' line that would consist of one comic per month that's set in the 90's VH1 continuity, there is a recent precedent for that idea working if you look at how IDW handled the G.I. Joe license.

Most of the G.I. Joe series they produced were set in a modern, rebooted IDW continuity. Then they had one series, 'G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero', that was written by Larry Hama and set in the 80/90's Marvel continuity.

I think readers are savvy enough to understand the difference, and I think having both continuities active would help all of the versions of the Valiant heroes gain more fans. It would grow the brand, and having the 90's continuity active again would also help sell the 90's reprint collections, as those stories would become relevant again.

It would be cool, but it should be done with Rai #0, VH-2, and VEI in mind (i.e., the stories should be building up to something).

It really would be no different from Q2.

[ManofTheAtom]

Ninjak vs Rai. The ninja and the samurai.

Would love to see that. Could be an early Rai (or maybe a precursor, like the original Rising Spirit was going to be) depending on the year this takes place.

Yeah.

[Ryan]

It would be cool, but it should be done with Rai #0, VH-2, and VEI in mind (i.e., the stories should be building up to something).

It really would be no different from Q2.

Yeah definitely same type of thing as Q2. The main difference being a commitment to a 12 issue or ongoing series. To me, a 4 issue series or series of one shots doesn't show enough commitment to telling stories of depth within the universe. It feels more like a nostalgia money grab.

It would be cool, but it should be done with Rai #0, VH-2, and VEI in mind (i.e., the stories should be building up to something).

I'd prefer VH1 stories that keep the continuity of Rai 0 and VH1 but don't have to address anything about VH2 or VEI. Just like Hama's G.I. Joe: ARAH doesn't have to address the other GI Joe continuities. Just tell fun stories in that universe using those versions of the characters.

But hey these are just fantasy speculations about what would personally make me excited. Everyone will probably have a different opinion about what their dream Valiant series is, or how they'd want to see VH1 continued.

[ManofTheAtom]

It would be cool, but it should be done with Rai #0, VH-2, and VEI in mind (i.e., the stories should be building up to something).

It really would be no different from Q2.

Yeah definitely same type of thing as Q2. The main difference being a commitment to a 12 issue or ongoing series. To me, a 4 issue series or series of one shots doesn't show enough commitment to telling stories of depth within the universe. It feels more like a nostalgia money grab.

It would be cool, but it should be done with Rai #0, VH-2, and VEI in mind (i.e., the stories should be building up to something).

I'd prefer VH1 stories that keep the continuity of Rai 0 and VH1 but don't have to address anything about VH2 or VEI. Just like Hama's G.I. Joe: ARAH doesn't have to address the other GI Joe continuities. Just tell fun stories in that universe using those versions of the characters.

But hey these are just fantasy speculations about what would personally make me excited. Everyone will probably have a different opinion about what their dream Valiant series is, or how they'd want to see VH1 continued.

I do think that anything other than stories that wrap up VH 1 would fit the category of nostalgia money grab. They should be done but for no other reason than to tie up lose ends and wrap up the proper character and plot arcs. Give the original iteration a proper ending.

[Ryan]

I do think that anything other than stories that wrap up VH 1 would fit the category of nostalgia money grab. They should be done but for no other reason than to tie up lose ends and wrap up the proper character and plot arcs. Give the original iteration a proper ending.

I have the opposite opinion of you on this. To me, a few one shots or a short mini series wouldn't qualify as a proper ending for VH1, more of an attempt to try to cash in on any lingering nostalgia. An ongoing or 12 issue maxi-series would at least have the potential to tell a story with enough depth to respectfully give the universe enough space to tell a decent story.

But like I said, every fan would probably have a different opinion on how to continue VH1. I honestly think the time may have passed for it to be successful anyway. There's been so many reboot attempts and overhyped-underdelivered projects from Valiant over decades now, it would be hard to convince average comic readers to try yet another hyped re-launch.

[ManofTheAtom]

I do think that anything other than stories that wrap up VH 1 would fit the category of nostalgia money grab. They should be done but for no other reason than to tie up lose ends and wrap up the proper character and plot arcs. Give the original iteration a proper ending.

I have the opposite opinion of you on this. To me, a few one shots or a short mini series wouldn't qualify as a proper ending for VH1, more of an attempt to try to cash in on any lingering nostalgia. An ongoing or 12 issue maxi-series would at least have the potential to tell a story with enough depth to respectfully give the universe enough space to tell a decent story.

But like I said, every fan would probably have a different opinion on how to continue VH1. I honestly think the time may have passed for it to be successful anyway. There's been so many reboot attempts and overhyped-underdelivered projects from Valiant over decades now, it would be hard to convince average comic readers to try yet another hyped re-launch.

An ongoing might be deceptive, though, making it appear as if VH 1 is coming back.

I do think The End-type projects have more chance to be successful.

[Ryan]

An ongoing might be deceptive, though, making it appear as if VH 1 is coming back.

On ongoing would mean VH1 is back. At least in that series. Just like in GI Joe: ARAH the Marvel continuity was actually back, not just in a one shot or dream sequence. Real, new adventures of those characters in that universe. That's what I would want.

I do think The End-type projects have more chance to be successful.

Cool, maybe you're right about that. Depending on how you measure success. Even if they sell a few thousand more than a regular Valiant comic, it would be over and VH1 would go right back to being a dead universe. Just like the New Universe one-shots and Q2. Maybe they were successful too, but not something I would be interested in.

[ManofTheAtom]

On ongoing would mean VH1 is back. At least in that series. Just like in GI Joe: ARAH the Marvel continuity was actually back, not just in a one shot or dream sequence. Real, new adventures of those characters in that universe. That's what I would want.

Well, that's content, not format.

There were 18 VH 1 series, no? If Alien did three, four-issue, mini series for each that have the beginning, middle, and end to their stories that would be 216 new VH-1 comics comics. That number can be cut down if instead of minis they just did one-shots for the ones of those 18 series that didn't need or deserve more than 12 issues to finish their stories.

I think that over 100/close to 175 or 200 new VH 1 comics would be enough to satisfy audiences.

How many issues did that GI Joe series last?

Cool, maybe you're right about that. Depending on how you measure success. Even if they sell a few thousand more than a regular Valiant comic, it would be over and VH1 would go right back to being a dead universe. Just like the New Universe one-shots and Q2. Maybe they were successful too, but not something I would be interested in.

newuniversal was awesome. It only stopped because Ellis' computer died on him and he didn't want to redo it from scratch.

[Ryan]

Well, that's content, not format.

There were 18 VH 1 series, no? If Alien did three, four-issue, mini series for each that have the beginning, middle, and end to their stories that would be 216 new VH-1 comics comics. That number can be cut down if instead of minis they just did one-shots for the ones of those 18 series that didn't need or deserve more than 12 issues to finish their stories.

I think that over 100/close to 175 or 200 new VH 1 comics would be enough to satisfy audiences.

That's true. There are a lot of different formats that would allow a long enough story to be told. I'm just saying I wouldn't be interested in a few one-shots or a single 4 issue mini like Q2. Commit to at least 12 issues, even if it was 12 one-shots, then I'd be more intrigued.

How many issues did that GI Joe series last?

The original Marvel GI Joe series went 155 issues, from 1982-94. The IDW series GI Joe: ARAH picked up at #156 in 2010, switched publishers to Image at #301 in 2023, and is still going strong with #307 due out this month.

newuniversal was awesome. It only stopped because Ellis' computer died on him and he didn't want to redo it from scratch.

newuniversal was cool, I'm thinking of some of the other minis and one shots they did after that.

[ManofTheAtom]

That's true. There are a lot of different formats that would allow a long enough story to be told. I'm just saying I wouldn't be interested in a few one-shots or a single 4 issue mini like Q2. Commit to at least 12 issues, even if it was 12 one-shots, then I'd be more intrigued.

Yeah, 18 one shots would not do it.

The original Marvel GI Joe series went 155 issues, from 1982-94. The IDW series GI Joe: ARAH picked up at #156 in 2010, switched publishers to Image at #301 in 2023, and is still going strong with #307 due out this month.

Cool.

newuniversal was cool, I'm thinking of some of the other minis and one shots they did after that.

Didn't get those.

[Ryan]

That's true. There are a lot of different formats that would allow a long enough story to be told. I'm just saying I wouldn't be interested in a few one-shots or a single 4 issue mini like Q2. Commit to at least 12 issues, even if it was 12 one-shots, then I'd be more intrigued.

Yeah, 18 one shots would not do it.

I agree it wouldn't be high on my list. I thought you were the one who wanted one shots though?

I'm saying I'd be interested in a 12 issue series that incorporated all the characters, like Secret Wars, or an ongoing series incorporating all the characters, like GI Joe: ARAH.

What's your ideal scenario?

[ManofTheAtom]

That's true. There are a lot of different formats that would allow a long enough story to be told. I'm just saying I wouldn't be interested in a few one-shots or a single 4 issue mini like Q2. Commit to at least 12 issues, even if it was 12 one-shots, then I'd be more intrigued.

Yeah, 18 one shots would not do it.

I agree it wouldn't be high on my list. I thought you were the one who wanted one shots though?

I'm saying I'd be interested in a 12 issue series that incorporated all the characters, like Secret Wars, or an ongoing series incorporating all the characters, like GI Joe: ARAH.

What's your ideal scenario?

That sort of scenario does not really allow for individual arcs to be told. It makes it about the heroes, with their supporting characters pretty much being forgotten or relegated to the background.

Even DC's Crisis had tie-ins to the event that were used to further explore what was happening in each character's worlds as the event unfolded.

With VALIANT/VH-1, Alien COULD do a main 12 issue series with ancillary minis centered on each individual title, for sure. But JUST 12 issues for all 18 premises/series might be too much load for a single comic to handle.

With VALIANT, though, it would make sense to do bookend issues like Voyager did with Unity (#0 and #1) and Chaos Effect (Alpha and Omega) rather than a 12 issue event series.

My ideal scenario would be as stated before, three, four-issue minis for each one of the original 18 series that deserve it (i.e., Shadowman, X-O Manowar, Eternal Warrior, Archer & Armstrong) and one-shots for the ones that don't justify that many issues. A central event series or bookends it not quite necessary I don't think.

[ManofTheAtom]

Unlike IDW with GI Joe, I do doubt Alien can afford competing against itself by publishing more than one iteration of the VALIANT characters.

They likely can't, nor shouldn't at this point, publish one comic with VEI X-O and one with VH1 X-O. It would divide an already divided and dwindling fanbase that likely would only buy one and not both.

[Ryan]

That sort of scenario does not really allow for individual arcs to be told. It makes it about the heroes, with their supporting characters pretty much being forgotten or relegated to the background.

Even DC's Crisis had tie-ins to the event that were used to further explore what was happening in each character's worlds as the event unfolded.

With VALIANT/VH-1, Alien COULD do a main 12 issue series with ancillary minis centered on each individual title, for sure. But JUST 12 issues for all 18 premises/series might be too much load for a single comic to handle.

That's true. Even Secret Wars had several tie-ins. A closer comparison for what I'm talking about is the original Squadron Supreme series. 12 issues, the whole story is contained within the series, and shifts focus to many different characters and mini-stories while also telling an epic story.

Even in that scenario, there would need to be sacrifices as far as being able to focus on every character from VH1. Inevitably there would have to be a few characters getting the main spotlight and a handful of supporting characters that get some attention.

With VALIANT, though, it would make sense to do bookend issues like Voyager did with Unity (#0 and #1) and Chaos Effect (Alpha and Omega) rather than a 12 issue event series.

My ideal scenario would be as stated before, three, four-issue minis for each one of the original 18 series that deserve it (i.e., Shadowman, X-O Manowar, Eternal Warrior, Archer & Armstrong) and one-shots for the ones that don't justify that many issues. A central event series or bookends it not quite necessary I don't think.

That would be awesome.

[Ryan]

Unlike IDW with GI Joe, I do doubt Alien can afford competing against itself by publishing more than one iteration of the VALIANT characters.

They likely can't, nor shouldn't at this point, publish one comic with VEI X-O and one with VH1 X-O. It would divide an already divided and dwindling fanbase that likely would only buy one and not both.

That's your opinion that multiple iterations would only compete with each other. My opinion is that it would bring more readers in, and lead to more Valiant fans/readers overall.

For example, I'm sure many of the people who came back to read the Hama GI Joe series became bigger fans of GI Joe, and also started to buy some of the modern reboot series. Cross-promotion would lead to more interest in both iterations.

[Ryan]

With VALIANT, though, it would make sense to do bookend issues like Voyager did with Unity (#0 and #1) and Chaos Effect (Alpha and Omega) rather than a 12 issue event series.

My ideal scenario would be as stated before, three, four-issue minis for each one of the original 18 series that deserve it (i.e., Shadowman, X-O Manowar, Eternal Warrior, Archer & Armstrong) and one-shots for the ones that don't justify that many issues. A central event series or bookends it not quite necessary I don't think.

That would be awesome, but obviously not practical. A one shot would be very practical and easy to produce, but IMO wouldn't move the needle or matter much for VH1.

A 12 issue or single ongoing series might not address everything, but it's trying to walk the line between what would actually have an impact and might be realistically practical.

[ManofTheAtom]

That's true. Even Secret Wars had several tie-ins. A closer comparison for what I'm talking about is the original Squadron Supreme series. 12 issues, the whole story is contained within the series, and shifts focus to many different characters and mini-stories while also telling an epic story.

Even in that scenario, there would need to be sacrifices as far as being able to focus on every character from VH1. Inevitably there would have to be a few characters getting the main spotlight and a handful of supporting characters that get some attention.

Even in that scenario or something like Watchmen the focus was constrained to the heroes as a group, with no room for their individual worlds and arcs.

It was about a shared plot as opposed to individual plots.

That would be awesome.

Yeah.

[ManofTheAtom]

With VALIANT, though, it would make sense to do bookend issues like Voyager did with Unity (#0 and #1) and Chaos Effect (Alpha and Omega) rather than a 12 issue event series.

My ideal scenario would be as stated before, three, four-issue minis for each one of the original 18 series that deserve it (i.e., Shadowman, X-O Manowar, Eternal Warrior, Archer & Armstrong) and one-shots for the ones that don't justify that many issues. A central event series or bookends it not quite necessary I don't think.

That would be awesome, but obviously not practical. A one shot would be very practical and easy to produce, but IMO wouldn't move the needle or matter much for VH1.

A 12 issue or single ongoing series might not address everything, but it's trying to walk the line between what would actually have an impact and might be realistically practical.

Maybe, but I'm more interested in what makes narrative sense and makes the story satisfying than in what format is more commercially viable.

[ManofTheAtom]

Unlike IDW with GI Joe, I do doubt Alien can afford competing against itself by publishing more than one iteration of the VALIANT characters.

They likely can't, nor shouldn't at this point, publish one comic with VEI X-O and one with VH1 X-O. It would divide an already divided and dwindling fanbase that likely would only buy one and not both.

That's your opinion that multiple iterations would only compete with each other. My opinion is that it would bring more readers in, and lead to more Valiant fans/readers overall.

For example, I'm sure many of the people who came back to read the Hama GI Joe series became bigger fans of GI Joe, and also started to buy some of the modern reboot series. Cross-promotion would lead to more interest in both iterations.

I'm not quite sure the two are comparable on that point, though.