Just not feeling it anymore

[Phantom]

I like the fact that alien continued numbering on xo 4. But that is pretty much all I liked about the book.
Ninjak 1 and 2 where not in my pull box, but when I looked at them on the shelf _ I just put them back.

If Punk Mambo was in a comic storyline, I would probably buy it, but otherwise I am not bothered.

Maybe I am just getting old. Never did like the constant reboots of the last relaunch. All the minis etc variant covers, etc. But stuck with it. Some fantastic reads in their, not all - but overall I was enjoying myself.

I did go over to Bad Idea to fill the gap while valiant tried to sort itself out. I would say half the stuff I liked, but just to - um - fussy, badges and stickers to redeem stuff ( but I couldn;t find a way from the uk ___ no not bitter). Just seems Bad Idea is all hype and the effort remains in the purchaser.

Weren't they trying to support local comic shops? now its just kickstarters. More hit and miss at BadIdea than valiant. All marketing and hype _ glad they are making money. But just seems more work for me to read their books than just picking up a comic.

I am so sad, just want consistency and enjoyment from a comic book purchase. Its not coming from valiant. I pay full cover, for books I don't enjoy. Some I would not even pick up for £1.

I have 20 long boxes of comics I will most likely never read again.

Wonder how long this has been brewing? Maybe just the glim hop that the book would get better.

Might cherry pick my collection, or just sell it. Finding myself just reading novels now and the occasional valiant HC from my shelf.

[ManofTheAtom]

Dang.

[possumgrease]

Phantom,

As I was reading this, I had to check to make sure that I had not posted it. I feel you completely. I also went down the Bad Idea trail, but I've had to bail on that as I was unwilling and unable to chase buttons and convention-only books. I overpaid for the first two kickstarters, but I've skipped the last two and will skip going forward. Some of the books were great, but just too hard to obtain.

I also have too many books that I'll never read. I'm personally finding some joy in putting the good books from my collection in mylar bags and gerber boards with painters tape sealing the books. Occasionally using a clear backing board when there's an interesting back cover. The old stuff never looked better.

I've mostly stopped buying any new books, but I'm branching out into collecting more books from the 40's and 50's. I'm not reading those either, but the covers are awesome. What came as a complete surprise to me is how much I like some of the Romance and Western covers such as:

[Ryan]

It's sad what's happened to Valiant. I'm sure many others have felt the same and just dumped their books and disappeared from the online communities. The fans on this board and beyond have put so much into Valiant over the years, it sucks that it doesn't always feel like that love and investment is returned.

Despite the books being of mostly high quality and aimed at a mature adult audience, there were still problems (IMO) with how VEI did things. However since DMG it seems like the last people they're making the comics for are the core fans.

I think there's hope that Alien will be different and bring the focus back to the core fans, but their first release being a Valentine's Day special doesn't really show that so far. It seems to be aimed more at younger, light-hearted or casual comics fans.

[corey]

Phantom,

As I was reading this, I had to check to make sure that I had not posted it. I feel you completely. I also went down the Bad Idea trail, but I've had to bail on that as I was unwilling and unable to chase buttons and convention-only books. I overpaid for the first two kickstarters, but I've skipped the last two and will skip going forward. Some of the books were great, but just too hard to obtain.

I also have too many books that I'll never read. I'm personally finding some joy in putting the good books from my collection in mylar bags and gerber boards with painters tape sealing the books. Occasionally using a clear backing board when there's an interesting back cover. The old stuff never looked better.

I've mostly stopped buying any new books, but I'm branching out into collecting more books from the 40's and 50's. I'm not reading those either, but the covers are awesome. What came as a complete surprise to me is how much I like some of the Romance and Western covers such as:

Huh...we may be twins...I started collecting heavily into GA after valiant fell apart.... now I'm into more.and more.OA

I hardly read anything except hardcovers anymore..I do not but new comics hardly ever... and you are correct there are some beautiful romance.covers

[nycjadie]

I’m so glad I’m not the only one. Thanks for posting, man. I appreciate you.

I enjoy the books intermittently, and I still enjoy all the nostalgia with collecting. I also now focus on other things. Platinum and golden age is my thing right now. I can get some of the first comics ever printed for less than a Valiant variant.

I hope Alien does a great job. I only have a couple so far. I’m hoping they can attract talent and fans so they can continue.

I was suspended from the Valiant FB group this last week. I have no idea why. I keep it clean and positive. I’m not bitter or anything. It’s just the icing on the cake though. Who wants to be part of a group that is relatively cranky, and doesn’t want you there even when you are nothing but positive? I mean, the vitriol I’ve seen these, and I get suspended? I’m the guy you want in that group.

I like it here. I collect the art, and I still pick up new books and old collectibles, but a fraction of what I did before. The community of fans has always been small, but it’s getting smaller, rapidly. I think I’ll stick to my fandom here, where I’ve been posting regularly for about 13 years now I guess. I was a lurker for longer. Sure, there always seems to be some crankiness here, but it’s like the weird uncle who comes over for a holiday. He is still family.

I’m still an Uber fan, I think. Tons of comics, over 1000 graded Valiant books, and a few more thousand sold to others. I’m pretty close to having every Valiant item published, and I have over 100 framed original covers on my walls. An entire room full of Valiant “artifacts.”

When guys like me are giving up. On the publisher, on the community groups. It’s a sign the end is nigh and the community of fans that keep it all alive will suffer for it.

[magnusr]

Also not feeling it. Still nostalgic over early Valiant (which right now is what is mainly discussed here), but not even Dinesh found that magic again. Hope Alien can find something similar. If they do - let me know.

/Magnus

[syzhang28]

Also not feeling it. Still nostalgic over early Valiant (which right now is what is mainly discussed here), but not even Dinesh found that magic again. Hope Alien can find something similar. If they do - let me know.

/Magnus

I think you guys are just old. I read VEI first starting in 2012 and 2012-2018 was some of the best comics I've ever read. I have now read the 1990s Valiant and its fine. Some good stuff like Archer & Armstrong but mostly just really solid but nothing life-changing.

[magnusr]

I think you guys are just old.

True

I read VEI first starting in 2012 and 2012-2018 was some of the best comics I've ever read.

Agree.

I have now read the 1990s Valiant and its fine. Some good stuff like Archer & Armstrong but mostly just really solid but nothing life-changing.

Disagree I dare say it did change my life

/Magnus

[Ize]

Also not feeling it. Still nostalgic over early Valiant (which right now is what is mainly discussed here), but not even Dinesh found that magic again. Hope Alien can find something similar. If they do - let me know.

/Magnus

I think you guys are just old. I read VEI first starting in 2012 and 2012-2018 was some of the best comics I've ever read. I have now read the 1990s Valiant and its fine. Some good stuff like Archer & Armstrong but mostly just really solid but nothing life-changing.

Same as. Jumped on when they launched Divinity and as you said, are defiantly some of the best comics i've read - Which led me to follow them to Bad Idea.

I just hope that Alien can bring the magic of the period you mentioned.

[reddog]

Also not feeling it. Still nostalgic over early Valiant (which right now is what is mainly discussed here), but not even Dinesh found that magic again. Hope Alien can find something similar. If they do - let me know.

/Magnus

I think you guys are just old. I read VEI first starting in 2012 and 2012-2018 was some of the best comics I've ever read. I have now read the 1990s Valiant and its fine. Some good stuff like Archer & Armstrong but mostly just really solid but nothing life-changing.

I want to get banned so here goes....syzhang28, you are a cock

[aj583]

I was suspended from the Valiant FB group this last week. I have no idea why. I keep it clean and positive. I’m not bitter or anything. It’s just the icing on the cake though. Who wants to be part of a group that is relatively cranky, and doesn’t want you there even when you are nothing but positive? I mean, the vitriol I’ve seen these, and I get suspended? I’m the guy you want in that group.


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[aj583]

I was suspended from the Valiant FB group this last week. I have no idea why. I keep it clean and positive. I’m not bitter or anything. It’s just the icing on the cake though. Who wants to be part of a group that is relatively cranky, and doesn’t want you there even when you are nothing but positive? I mean, the vitriol I’ve seen these, and I get suspended? I’m the guy you want in that group.


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Wait, what?!? How is this possible. You are a huge valiant fan and I’ve always seen you post in a open an honest way. I’m shocked. They know your love for valiant for sure and they banned you!! Not happy with that.


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[Ryan]

Also not feeling it. Still nostalgic over early Valiant (which right now is what is mainly discussed here), but not even Dinesh found that magic again. Hope Alien can find something similar. If they do - let me know.

/Magnus

I think you guys are just old. I read VEI first starting in 2012 and 2012-2018 was some of the best comics I've ever read. I have now read the 1990s Valiant and its fine. Some good stuff like Archer & Armstrong but mostly just really solid but nothing life-changing.

If VEI really were the best comics ever, I feel like there would a lot more discussion about them (or at least some discussion). It seemed like a lot of decompressed cryptic mystery box storytelling that didn't go anywhere and style over substance to me.

[Ryan]

Also not feeling it. Still nostalgic over early Valiant (which right now is what is mainly discussed here), but not even Dinesh found that magic again. Hope Alien can find something similar. If they do - let me know.

/Magnus

I think you guys are just old. I read VEI first starting in 2012 and 2012-2018 was some of the best comics I've ever read. I have now read the 1990s Valiant and its fine. Some good stuff like Archer & Armstrong but mostly just really solid but nothing life-changing.

Personal opinions about the quality of the books aside, I think the 'magic' he's referring to is capturing the long-term excitement of a fanbase.

The Valiant fans were a movement in the 10+ years after the original comics stopped coming out. There was so much discussion, interest, and excitement about these characters returning, all based on people loving the original comics.

Everything VEI did was fueled by that. Where is that now? The brand seems to be at an all time low. That's the magic he's referring to.

[The Harbinger]

Despite the books being of mostly high quality and aimed at a mature adult audience, there were still problems (IMO) with how VEI did things. However since DMG it seems like the last people they're making the comics for are the core fans.

It looks like with the Valentine's special as one of the first launches, Alien is still chasing the "untapped" market. Maybe it is the only viable market at this point since many other companies have chased off the core fans away/a segment of core fans have aged and died. I didn't hate the story itself, but sigh, this is really a time to be relaunching the Valiant properties with something exciting to hook some readers.

In 10 years, it'll be interesting to see the case studies on how comics targeting non-fans and not watering anything for your core base played out. We're already seeing it, but seems like we have three schools of thought in the industry.

1) DC approach, leave Batman untouched since he's paying all the bills and be careful of the changes to not upset readers. Try to make "fetch" happen with a new character like Harley Quinn or Suicide Squad so you're not having to keep doing less and less effective reboots with the ones that make money.

2) Marvel approach, make a Spiderverse so you can leave Peter Parker lore untouched after ruining it with One More Day and countless Peter traumas. Use the Multiverse angle to fit in your queer spiderman to shoot webs from crutches, and try to throw it all against the wall and hope a loyal fanbase comes out of one of the properties.

3) Abandon the aging readers, laugh off the superhero as an outdated male power fantasy, and start utilizing the super hero property to pitch your talent at writing TV drama where the characters just happen to have a costume.

Some people are knocking Ninjak here, but I loved just having a basic and simple comic story with some fun visual dynamics. That and ones like Superman Man of Tomorrow (2021) are what I think has a chance at getting the new readers.

[Ryan]

Despite the books being of mostly high quality and aimed at a mature adult audience, there were still problems (IMO) with how VEI did things. However since DMG it seems like the last people they're making the comics for are the core fans.

It looks like with the Valentine's special as one of the first launches, Alien is still chasing the "untapped" market. Maybe it is the only viable market at this point since many other companies have chased off the core fans away/a segment of core fans have aged and died. I didn't hate the story itself, but sigh, this is really a time to be relaunching the Valiant properties with something exciting to hook some readers.

In 10 years, it'll be interesting to see the case studies on how comics targeting non-fans and not watering anything for your core base played out. We're already seeing it, but seems like we have three schools of thought in the industry.

1) DC approach, leave Batman untouched since he's paying all the bills and be careful of the changes to not upset readers. Try to make "fetch" happen with a new character like Harley Quinn or Suicide Squad so you're not having to keep doing less and less effective reboots with the ones that make money.

2) Marvel approach, make a Spiderverse so you can leave Peter Parker lore untouched after ruining it with One More Day and countless Peter traumas. Use the Multiverse angle to fit in your queer spiderman to shoot webs from crutches, and try to throw it all against the wall and hope a loyal fanbase comes out of one of the properties.

3) Abandon the aging readers, laugh off the superhero as an outdated male power fantasy, and start utilizing the super hero property to pitch your talent at writing TV drama where the characters just happen to have a costume.

Some people are knocking Ninjak here, but I loved just having a basic and simple comic story with some fun visual dynamics. That and ones like Superman Man of Tomorrow (2021) are what I think has a chance at getting the new readers.

Good post, it seems DMG/Alien is heading toward door #3. Like you say, modern comics is a tough business to make money in, I think people are searching for the next winning formula.

The 2010s seemed to be about the rise of the MCU/streaming etc. and everyone chasing that dream of every comic having the potential to be a cinematic universe-Netflix series etc. 2020s started with Covid and the cinematic/streaming universe market hitting the wall of growth and starting to shrink. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[myron]

<snip>

3) Abandon the aging readers, laugh off the superhero as an outdated male power fantasy, and start utilizing the super hero property to pitch your talent at writing TV drama where the characters just happen to have a costume.

I would posit that #3 is what Shooter was doing in early Valiant. Was more about the people were doing and the super stuff was secondary...

I miss that...

[ManofTheAtom]

3) Abandon the aging readers, laugh off the superhero as an outdated male power fantasy, and start utilizing the super hero property to pitch your talent at writing TV drama where the characters just happen to have a costume.

EXACTLY.

VALIANT stories should have the same tone and style as a police procedural or legal/medical drama. The alternative is the Arrowverse or the Marvel Comedic Universe.

[Ryan]

<snip>

3) Abandon the aging readers, laugh off the superhero as an outdated male power fantasy, and start utilizing the super hero property to pitch your talent at writing TV drama where the characters just happen to have a costume.

I would posit that #3 is what Shooter was doing in early Valiant. Was more about the people were doing and the super stuff was secondary...

I miss that...

I think it's a fine line. Early Valiant was still super hero stories that worked as super hero stories, they were just infused with more realism and logic. Going all the way to deconstruction and super hero stories only about everyday life is too far, and not what Shooter did IMO.

[Ryan]

3) Abandon the aging readers, laugh off the superhero as an outdated male power fantasy, and start utilizing the super hero property to pitch your talent at writing TV drama where the characters just happen to have a costume.

EXACTLY.

VALIANT stories should have the same tone and style as a police procedural or legal/medical drama. The alternative is the Arrowverse or the Marvel Comedic Universe.

I think there's a way to do more realistic super heroes that still work as super hero stories. That's what Lee-Ditko did and what Shooter tried to do with New U and Valiant. It was never about laughing off superheroes or deconstruction, but making the stories more real and credible.

[ManofTheAtom]

3) Abandon the aging readers, laugh off the superhero as an outdated male power fantasy, and start utilizing the super hero property to pitch your talent at writing TV drama where the characters just happen to have a costume.

EXACTLY.

VALIANT stories should have the same tone and style as a police procedural or legal/medical drama. The alternative is the Arrowverse or the Marvel Comedic Universe.

I think there's a way to do more realistic super heroes that still work as super hero stories. That's what Lee-Ditko did and what Shooter tried to do with New U and Valiant. It was never about laughing off superheroes or deconstruction, but making the stories more real and credible.

I'd point you to Shooter's Solar, and how he used itto deconstruct superheroes by contrasting the comic booky world of Doctor Solar against the real world of Phil Seleski.

I contend that the main problem with Shooter's Doctor Solar from Dark Horse is that it fell victim to the same things he said were silly about it in VALIANT's Solar. Same goes for Dynamite's version. They both helped to further cement that his initial approach at VALIANT with the character was the right one.

[Ryan]

I'd point you to Shooter's Solar, and how he used itto deconstruct superheroes by contrasting the comic booky world of Doctor Solar against the real world of Phil Seleski.

I contend that the main problem with Shooter's Doctor Solar from Dark Horse is that it fell victim to the same things he said were silly about it in VALIANT's Solar. Same goes for Dynamite's version. They both helped to further cement that his initial approach at VALIANT with the character was the right one.

I get what your saying. I wouldn't call that deconstruction though. He still wore a red suit and fought super villains. The contrast was more against the original Dr. Solar's campiness and goofiness with Shooter's approach that was realistic and hard sci-fi (real science), but still a super hero story. It wasn't a scientist procedural with no super hero-ing, but there were definitely elements of that. It was balancing those things that made it so good, not going too far in either direction.

[ManofTheAtom]

I'd point you to Shooter's Solar, and how he used itto deconstruct superheroes by contrasting the comic booky world of Doctor Solar against the real world of Phil Seleski.

I contend that the main problem with Shooter's Doctor Solar from Dark Horse is that it fell victim to the same things he said were silly about it in VALIANT's Solar. Same goes for Dynamite's version. They both helped to further cement that his initial approach at VALIANT with the character was the right one.

I get what your saying. I wouldn't call that deconstruction though. He still wore a red suit and fought super villains. The contrast was more against the original Dr. Solar's campiness and goofiness with Shooter's approach that was realistic and hard sci-fi (real science), but still a super hero story. It wasn't a scientist procedural with no super hero-ing, but there were definitely elements of that. It was balancing those things that made it so good, not going too far in either direction.

VALIANT fiction should be like a police procedural like Blue Bloods or medical drama like Gray's Anatomy but in which the characters are superheroes who wear superhero costumes instead of scrubs and uniforms and fight supervillains instead of arrest drug dealers or perform complex operations.

That's what Shooter did with Solar. The first villain he fought was Harada, a businessman who happened to have psychic abilities.

[corey]

Also not feeling it. Still nostalgic over early Valiant (which right now is what is mainly discussed here), but not even Dinesh found that magic again. Hope Alien can find something similar. If they do - let me know.

/Magnus

I think you guys are just old. I read VEI first starting in 2012 and 2012-2018 was some of the best comics I've ever read. I have now read the 1990s Valiant and its fine. Some good stuff like Archer & Armstrong but mostly just really solid but nothing life-changing.

100000% agree... when I started reading the 2012 vei.. they were amazing books for the most part..dmg took over..sheiit went down the drain fast