So my girl started reading Unity

[ManofTheAtom]

The VALIANT Universe is, by its very nature, paradoxical. That is why Erica hates Phil.

Magnus' 4001 is the present, not the future, while Solar's 1991 is the past, not the present.

In this sense, the effect (Magnus, North Am, etc.) preceded the cause (Solar recreating the universe).

First thing we must accept is that Phil Seleski exists in the same reality as Manning's Magnus from the '60s, and his having read the Doctor Solar comics as a kid is secondary to that.

[magnusr]

Haha amazing! If I'm not mistaken in VH1 Magnus references some adventures he had that took place in his GK books! I gotta find good examples but one I think is his coming across evil genius MYXplx, whatever his name is that has the Evil mustatch

Yes, several elements from Gold Key are reused. The Malevs being the most notable. Issue 26 retells much of the history.

/Magnus

[magnusr]

What about the Dr. Solar issues from the 80's that had Magnus backup stories? What were those backup stories in the Valiant universe versions of Dr. Solar comics? Just blank pages?

Or those issues didn't exist? I suspect that Valiant didn't look at them. Senator Clane was supposed to have another first name in those stories than the one Valiant used.

/Magnus

[Ryan]

Haha amazing! If I'm not mistaken in VH1 Magnus references some adventures he had that took place in his GK books! I gotta find good examples but one I think is his coming across evil genius MYXplx, whatever his name is that has the Evil mustatch

Definitely. Magnus was made as a direct continuation of the Gold Key series, thus taking place in the year 4001 after GK Magnus was in 4000. They ignored some of the campy elements of the GK series, but it's all canon in VH1.

Dude Xyrkol is the best, such a classic villain. Myxplx is the superman villain

Screenshot 2024-02-08 215128.png

[Ryan]

What about the Dr. Solar issues from the 80's that had Magnus backup stories? What were those backup stories in the Valiant universe versions of Dr. Solar comics? Just blank pages?

Or those issues didn't exist? I suspect that Valiant didn't look at them. Senator Clane was supposed to have another first name in those stories than the one Valiant used.

/Magnus

Yeah you're probably right, since those Magnus stories contradicted the Russ Manning Magnus stories they weren't canon in VH1 or comics that Phil would have read.

[Ryan]

The VALIANT Universe is, by its very nature, paradoxical. That is why Erica hates Phil.

Magnus' 4001 is the present, not the future, while Solar's 1991 is the past, not the present.

In this sense, the effect (Magnus, North Am, etc.) preceded the cause (Solar recreating the universe).

First thing we must accept is that Phil Seleski exists in the same reality as Manning's Magnus from the '60s, and his having read the Doctor Solar comics as a kid is secondary to that.

Interesting points.

I think what you're saying about time also relates to how time was explained in Vh1 as not being a straight line, more like a circular hurricane with the Lost Land being the calm eye of the storm in the middle, the one place where time was absolute. I think that was explained by Erica in Unity? I'll have to try to find it.

[ManofTheAtom]

The VALIANT Universe is, by its very nature, paradoxical. That is why Erica hates Phil.

Magnus' 4001 is the present, not the future, while Solar's 1991 is the past, not the present.

In this sense, the effect (Magnus, North Am, etc.) preceded the cause (Solar recreating the universe).

First thing we must accept is that Phil Seleski exists in the same reality as Manning's Magnus from the '60s, and his having read the Doctor Solar comics as a kid is secondary to that.

Interesting points.

I think what you're saying about time also relates to how time was explained in Vh1 as not being a straight line, more like a circular hurricane with the Lost Land being the calm eye of the storm in the middle, the one place where time was absolute. I think that was explained by Erica in Unity? I'll have to try to find it.

Yes, it was.

[jakgrimm]

The VALIANT Universe is, by its very nature, paradoxical. That is why Erica hates Phil.

Magnus' 4001 is the present, not the future, while Solar's 1991 is the past, not the present.

In this sense, the effect (Magnus, North Am, etc.) preceded the cause (Solar recreating the universe).

First thing we must accept is that Phil Seleski exists in the same reality as Manning's Magnus from the '60s, and his having read the Doctor Solar comics as a kid is secondary to that.

Interesting points.

I think what you're saying about time also relates to how time was explained in Vh1 as not being a straight line, more like a circular hurricane with the Lost Land being the calm eye of the storm in the middle, the one place where time was absolute. I think that was explained by Erica in Unity? I'll have to try to find it.

Yes, it was.

That is an amazing way to look at it. Phil knew of Magnus and made him, and himself as the hero.

As for the Lost land being absolute, that was debunked in Chaos effect. Geoff goes back to the lost land before Unity begins. A war is coming....

[jakgrimm]

They do say the lost land is a part of the backstage of reality that is the most sluggish. That can mean its possible to go to an earlier time in the lost land. Unity has some contradictory points on this but that can just be the 'error' of the people talking.

Like Erica telling the Slug that from whatever time period the heroes originate they arrive here in our present just to shut him up and stop asking so many questions you literal big baby.


Even though it's not exactly true

[jakgrimm]

Haha amazing! If I'm not mistaken in VH1 Magnus references some adventures he had that took place in his GK books! I gotta find good examples but one I think is his coming across evil genius MYXplx, whatever his name is that has the Evil mustatch

Definitely. Magnus was made as a direct continuation of the Gold Key series, thus taking place in the year 4001 after GK Magnus was in 4000. They ignored some of the campy elements of the GK series, but it's all canon in VH1.

Dude Xyrkol is the best, such a classic villain. Myxplx is the superman villain

Screenshot 2024-02-08 215128.png

Haha I know, I just got carried away with the button mashing

[ManofTheAtom]

The VALIANT Universe is, by its very nature, paradoxical. That is why Erica hates Phil.

Magnus' 4001 is the present, not the future, while Solar's 1991 is the past, not the present.

In this sense, the effect (Magnus, North Am, etc.) preceded the cause (Solar recreating the universe).

First thing we must accept is that Phil Seleski exists in the same reality as Manning's Magnus from the '60s, and his having read the Doctor Solar comics as a kid is secondary to that.

Interesting points.

I think what you're saying about time also relates to how time was explained in Vh1 as not being a straight line, more like a circular hurricane with the Lost Land being the calm eye of the storm in the middle, the one place where time was absolute. I think that was explained by Erica in Unity? I'll have to try to find it.

Yes, it was.

That is an amazing way to look at it. Phil knew of Magnus and made him, and himself as the hero.

As for the Lost land being absolute, that was debunked in Chaos effect. Geoff goes back to the lost land before Unity begins. A war is coming....

I don't know if Phil made Magnus since Magnus was not fictional before Phil went back in time.

Clark Kent and Thor were since both were referenced in Alpha & Omega. By extension of the latter, so was Iron Man, and we saw how that went...

[jakgrimm]

So Solar got his name from Thor comics? The Polish sun god...

[Ryan]

The VALIANT Universe is, by its very nature, paradoxical. That is why Erica hates Phil.

Magnus' 4001 is the present, not the future, while Solar's 1991 is the past, not the present.

In this sense, the effect (Magnus, North Am, etc.) preceded the cause (Solar recreating the universe).

First thing we must accept is that Phil Seleski exists in the same reality as Manning's Magnus from the '60s, and his having read the Doctor Solar comics as a kid is secondary to that.

Interesting points.

I think what you're saying about time also relates to how time was explained in Vh1 as not being a straight line, more like a circular hurricane with the Lost Land being the calm eye of the storm in the middle, the one place where time was absolute. I think that was explained by Erica in Unity? I'll have to try to find it.

Yes, it was.

That is an amazing way to look at it. Phil knew of Magnus and made him, and himself as the hero.

As for the Lost land being absolute, that was debunked in Chaos effect. Geoff goes back to the lost land before Unity begins. A war is coming....

Yeah if it's the only place that time absolute, how could it have been destroyed without destroying the universe? I loved when they brought the Lost land back at the end of Chaos effect, too bad nothing much ever came of it and the wheels started to come off the Valiant train soon after.

[Ryan]

They do say the lost land is a part of the backstage of reality that is the most sluggish. That can mean its possible to go to an earlier time in the lost land. Unity has some contradictory points on this but that can just be the 'error' of the people talking.

Like Erica telling the Slug that from whatever time period the heroes originate they arrive here in our present just to shut him up and stop asking so many questions you literal big baby.


Even though it's not exactly true

I feel like all the lost land and time stuff makes sense in a certain way, but like most time travel in comics it starts to fall apart if you analyze it too much.

[Ryan]

I don't know if Phil made Magnus since Magnus was not fictional before Phil went back in time.

Clark Kent and Thor were since both were referenced in Alpha & Omega. By extension of the latter, so was Iron Man, and we saw how that went...

So you're saying VH0 was really just VH1 all along, Solar just time traveled to prevent himself from destroying the world? But on some level that destruction did happen, because it created the huge influx of Necromantic (Darque) Energy that caused many of the supernatural things in Vh1.

[ManofTheAtom]

I don't know if Phil made Magnus since Magnus was not fictional before Phil went back in time.

Clark Kent and Thor were since both were referenced in Alpha & Omega. By extension of the latter, so was Iron Man, and we saw how that went...

So you're saying VH0 was really just VH1 all along, Solar just time traveled to prevent himself from destroying the world? But on some level that destruction did happen, because it created the huge influx of Necromantic (Darque) Energy that caused many of the supernatural things in Vh1.

No. VH-0 was OUR world, in which the only fictional characters were the ones at the Edgewater reactor.

When Phil went back in time, he broke the world and turned it into the VALIANT Universe, a world in which immortals and Harbingers existed.

But since Magnus is the present and not the future, it was a predestination paradox. It was always meant to happen.

Solar's appearance in Magnus #6 was concurrent with the publication of Solar #4, the end of the Second Death arc.

[ManofTheAtom]

So Solar got his name from Thor comics? The Polish sun god...

Well, the Doctor Solar comics were not mentioned in the Alpha and Omega serial, which was odd.

[Ryan]

I don't know if Phil made Magnus since Magnus was not fictional before Phil went back in time.

Clark Kent and Thor were since both were referenced in Alpha & Omega. By extension of the latter, so was Iron Man, and we saw how that went...

So you're saying VH0 was really just VH1 all along, Solar just time traveled to prevent himself from destroying the world? But on some level that destruction did happen, because it created the huge influx of Necromantic (Darque) Energy that caused many of the supernatural things in Vh1.

No. VH-0 was OUR world, in which the only fictional characters were the ones at the Edgewater reactor.

When Phil went back in time, he broke the world and turned it into the VALIANT Universe, a world in which immortals and Harbingers existed.

But since Magnus is the present and not the future, it was a predestination paradox. It was always meant to happen.

Solar's appearance in Magnus #6 was concurrent with the publication of Solar #4, the end of the Second Death arc.

[jakgrimm]

I don't know if Phil made Magnus since Magnus was not fictional before Phil went back in time.

Clark Kent and Thor were since both were referenced in Alpha & Omega. By extension of the latter, so was Iron Man, and we saw how that went...

So you're saying VH0 was really just VH1 all along, Solar just time traveled to prevent himself from destroying the world? But on some level that destruction did happen, because it created the huge influx of Necromantic (Darque) Energy that caused many of the supernatural things in Vh1.

No. VH-0 was OUR world, in which the only fictional characters were the ones at the Edgewater reactor.

When Phil went back in time, he broke the world and turned it into the VALIANT Universe, a world in which immortals and Harbingers existed.

But since Magnus is the present and not the future, it was a predestination paradox. It was always meant to happen.

Solar's appearance in Magnus #6 was concurrent with the publication of Solar #4, the end of the Second Death arc.

I don't understand why you say Magnus is the present. 4001, 4020 Magnus?

[ManofTheAtom]

I don't know if Phil made Magnus since Magnus was not fictional before Phil went back in time.

Clark Kent and Thor were since both were referenced in Alpha & Omega. By extension of the latter, so was Iron Man, and we saw how that went...

So you're saying VH0 was really just VH1 all along, Solar just time traveled to prevent himself from destroying the world? But on some level that destruction did happen, because it created the huge influx of Necromantic (Darque) Energy that caused many of the supernatural things in Vh1.

No. VH-0 was OUR world, in which the only fictional characters were the ones at the Edgewater reactor.

When Phil went back in time, he broke the world and turned it into the VALIANT Universe, a world in which immortals and Harbingers existed.

But since Magnus is the present and not the future, it was a predestination paradox. It was always meant to happen.

Solar's appearance in Magnus #6 was concurrent with the publication of Solar #4, the end of the Second Death arc.

I don't understand why you say Magnus is the present. 4001, 4020 Magnus?

Correct. Since Magnus was the first comic VALIANT published, that means that 4001 is the present day and the '90s are the past.

[Ryan]

Erica was at one time in the same 1992 as Solar. Then she planned for 2000 years and went to the Lost land in 4001 to start Unity. When Solar entered the Lost Land from 1992 it was the same time in the Lost Land as when Erica went in 2000 years later.

So the only 'real' time was the Lost Land time. Everything else was happening simultaneously, in theory, although that's not physically possible. Really it was more like 2 specific time periods were simultaneously activated and had the ability to enter the Lost Land at that specific time that would be a 3rd simultaneous 'present' time.

If all people from all times could have entered the Lost Land and it still been the same Lost Land 'present' time then they would have been able to have multiple versions of every hero all from different points in time. Instead only one hero does this, Gilad from 4001 and 1992.

So it seems to me that there were only 3 simultaneous 'present times' in VH1 that could all affect each other. 1991, 4001, and the Lost Land time that was the neutral present time where both of the other 2 could meet and co-exist.

[magnusr]

So it seems to me that there were only 3 simultaneous 'present times' in VH1 that could all affect each other. 1991, 4001, and the Lost Land time that was the neutral present time where both of the other 2 could meet and co-exist.

There were other times when people entered the Lost Land, Turok being the prime example, but it sure seems to be something special with 1991 and 4001.

Found this with Google:
http://www.valiantfans.com/vctimeline/v ... ne_app.pdf

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

Erica was at one time in the same 1992 as Solar. Then she planned for 2000 years and went to the Lost land in 4001 to start Unity. When Solar entered the Lost Land from 1992 it was the same time in the Lost Land as when Erica went in 2000 years later.

So the only 'real' time was the Lost Land time. Everything else was happening simultaneously, in theory, although that's not physically possible. Really it was more like 2 specific time periods were simultaneously activated and had the ability to enter the Lost Land at that specific time that would be a 3rd simultaneous 'present' time.

If all people from all times could have entered the Lost Land and it still been the same Lost Land 'present' time then they would have been able to have multiple versions of every hero all from different points in time. Instead only one hero does this, Gilad from 4001 and 1992.

So it seems to me that there were only 3 simultaneous 'present times' in VH1 that could all affect each other. 1991, 4001, and the Lost Land time that was the neutral present time where both of the other 2 could meet and co-exist.

See, when Solar entered the Lost Land Erica had already been there for some time. So, they didn't all enter at the same time.

When Magnus visited the Lost Land prior to Unity, was there any mention of Mothergod or her Rainbow Tower? Any indication of her robots or their presence overall? I cannot recall offhand if there was.

Likewise, if we accept that the Turok Gold Key issues are canonical, like the timeline that magnusr posted indicates, then we must also accept that, one, Erica's tower was not present when Turok and Andar roamed the Lost Land, and, two, that Tuork and Andar entered the Lost Land LONG before she, Magnus, and Solar did, which shows that time does pass there.

If time didn't exist, then all of them, including Turok and Andar, would have entered the Lost Land at the same time. But, clearly, Turok had been there longer than any of them.

So it seems to me that there were only 3 simultaneous 'present times' in VH1 that could all affect each other. 1991, 4001, and the Lost Land time that was the neutral present time where both of the other 2 could meet and co-exist.

There were other times when people entered the Lost Land, Turok being the prime example, but it sure seems to be something special with 1991 and 4001.

Found this with Google:
http://www.valiantfans.com/vctimeline/v ... ne_app.pdf

/Magnus

[Ryan]

There were other times when people entered the Lost Land, Turok being the prime example, but it sure seems to be something special with 1991 and 4001.

Found this with Google:
http://www.valiantfans.com/vctimeline/v ... ne_app.pdf

/Magnus

Great info, will check that out. Yeah you're right people did enter the Lost Land from different times, but more rarely. Something made 1991 and 4001 special in terms of access to the Lost Land.

[Ryan]

See, when Solar entered the Lost Land Erica had already been there for some time. So, they didn't all enter at the same time.

When Magnus visited the Lost Land prior to Unity, was there any mention of Mothergod or her Rainbow Tower? Any indication of her robots or their presence overall? I cannot recall offhand if there was.

No, I'm almost certain there wasn't. I'll double check Magnus 12 though.

Likewise, if we accept that the Turok Gold Key issues are canonical, like the timeline that magnusr posted indicates, then we must also accept that, one, Erica's tower was not present when Turok and Andar roamed the Lost Land, and, two, that Tuork and Andar entered the Lost Land LONG before she, Magnus, and Solar did, which shows that time does pass there.

If time didn't exist, then all of them, including Turok and Andar, would have entered the Lost Land at the same time. But, clearly, Turok had been there longer than any of them.

Yeah, for sure. So one thing is that time passes much slower there ('sluggish'). That doesn't fully explain how different time periods can access the Lost Land yet still remain simultaneous. Like what is the relation between how time passes in the Lost Land vs. how it passes in the outer timelines, and how is it determined how much time has passed when crossing between?