Who Should Alien call to run Valiant (poll)

[ManofTheAtom]

And I would also comment that many things in pop culture do not stand the test of time or age well… comics included. Times & tastes change (not always for the better, but not always for the worse either), and I think most examples of entertainment simply cement themselves in the era they were created in. They mostly do not easily move forward in time.

I think it’s a bit of a long shot to ever truly hope for the return of an old favourite that has seen its day, unchanged from the original thing that was created in its time - but it’s also very much part of human nature to want that. The emotional attachment to the past and a perceived ‘glory day’ is a strong pull for most of us in general - a escapist mechanism to travel back in time and focus on something that gave us happiness while stripping away any bad memories associated with that time. We naturally want to preserve that perception of that happy thing as perfectly as possible.

Having said all that - I think that what VEI initially did was the very best kind of modern revamp one could hope for from a much beloved property. It was also of its time - and as we continue to move away from that period it may date itself more firmly to its time, but so far I think the early stuff still ages well.

Is it time to revamp again with this opportunity via Alien? I think it’s a grey area right now - we aren’t really far enough away from Dinesh’s VEI for a full relaunch, and yet I feel we could do with some distance from much of the DMG material.

We know it won't be a reboot.

[Ryan]

And I would also comment that many things in pop culture do not stand the test of time or age well… comics included. Times & tastes change (not always for the better, but not always for the worse either), and I think most examples of entertainment simply cement themselves in the era they were created in. They mostly do not easily move forward in time.

Sure, that's the nature of pop culture, it's meant for the time its created in and then disposed of and everyone moves on to the next thing. There was an explosion of comic book properties and universes in the early 90's, so why was VALIANT the only one that still had a fanbase 10-15 years later, still being re-read, collected, and discussed? I don't know the answer, I would guess one reason is because there was an uncommon depth to the stories.

I think it’s a bit of a long shot to ever truly hope for the return of an old favourite that has seen its day, unchanged from the original thing that was created in its time - but it’s also very much part of human nature to want that. The emotional attachment to the past and a perceived ‘glory day’ is a strong pull for most of us in general - a escapist mechanism to travel back in time and focus on something that gave us happiness while stripping away any bad memories associated with that time. We naturally want to preserve that perception of that happy thing as perfectly as possible.

AKA nostalgia. That's always going to be a factor in pop culture, especially when we're talking about adults reading comic books. However I don't think that's the explanation for why some VH1 fans were turned off by VEI.

Having said all that - I think that what VEI initially did was the very best kind of modern revamp one could hope for from a much beloved property. It was also of its time - and as we continue to move away from that period it may date itself more firmly to its time, but so far I think the early stuff still ages well.

I don't know, I feel like they were well-produced comics in an era that every other 'mainstream' publisher (Marvel, DC, Image, etc.) were also doing a similar or higher level of production. IMO they lack a depth of worldbuilding and lore that makes properties stand the test of time. Like how Star Trek kept getting re-watched and discussed years after it was canceled, creating the huge fandom they have vs. many other sci-fi shows and movies from that era that were totally forgotten, even if they were considered good quality at the time.

Look I could be wrong, I admit I haven't read a lot of VEI. But I'll give an example of what I mean. I recently read VEI Ninjak #0 to try and gain some insight into the character and what VEI's take was. It was 40 pgs. of story and I gained almost no understanding of the character beyond the basic rudiments of a generic spy story. Instead it was a beautifully illustrated tone poem, with the arrow going through the entire story separating the top and bottom narratives was certainly clever and unique, it still left me with very little of an actual story IMO.

I do agree that VEI was very well produced and made some excellent comics. But I don't agree that it's the best we can hope for, having seen the VALIANT phenomenon first hand and experiencing how close they were to becoming a dominant force in the industry. IMO that's not just nostalgia talking, there are reasons that comics like Brubaker's Cap and the Walking Dead break through to a wide audience while others don't. I appreciate the thoughtful discussion.

Is it time to revamp again with this opportunity via Alien? I think it’s a grey area right now - we aren’t really far enough away from Dinesh’s VEI for a full relaunch, and yet I feel we could do with some distance from much of the DMG material.

The thing is DMG is still in control, that tempers my expectations quite a bit.

[syzhang28]

And I would also comment that many things in pop culture do not stand the test of time or age well… comics included. Times & tastes change (not always for the better, but not always for the worse either), and I think most examples of entertainment simply cement themselves in the era they were created in. They mostly do not easily move forward in time.

Sure, that's the nature of pop culture, it's meant for the time its created in and then disposed of and everyone moves on to the next thing. There was an explosion of comic book properties and universes in the early 90's, so why was VALIANT the only one that still had a fanbase 10-15 years later, still being re-read, collected, and discussed? I don't know the answer, I would guess one reason is because there was an uncommon depth to the stories.

I think it’s a bit of a long shot to ever truly hope for the return of an old favourite that has seen its day, unchanged from the original thing that was created in its time - but it’s also very much part of human nature to want that. The emotional attachment to the past and a perceived ‘glory day’ is a strong pull for most of us in general - a escapist mechanism to travel back in time and focus on something that gave us happiness while stripping away any bad memories associated with that time. We naturally want to preserve that perception of that happy thing as perfectly as possible.

AKA nostalgia. That's always going to be a factor in pop culture, especially when we're talking about adults reading comic books. However I don't think that's the explanation for why some VH1 fans were turned off by VEI.

Having said all that - I think that what VEI initially did was the very best kind of modern revamp one could hope for from a much beloved property. It was also of its time - and as we continue to move away from that period it may date itself more firmly to its time, but so far I think the early stuff still ages well.

I don't know, I feel like they were well-produced comics in an era that every other 'mainstream' publisher (Marvel, DC, Image, etc.) were also doing a similar or higher level of production. IMO they lack a depth of worldbuilding and lore that makes properties stand the test of time. Like how Star Trek kept getting re-watched and discussed years after it was canceled, creating the huge fandom they have vs. many other sci-fi shows and movies from that era that were totally forgotten, even if they were considered good quality at the time.

Look I could be wrong, I admit I haven't read a lot of VEI. But I'll give an example of what I mean. I recently read VEI Ninjak #0 to try and gain some insight into the character and what VEI's take was. It was 40 pgs. of story and I gained almost no understanding of the character beyond the basic rudiments of a generic spy story. Instead it was a beautifully illustrated tone poem, with the arrow going through the entire story separating the top and bottom narratives was certainly clever and unique, it still left me with very little of an actual story IMO.

I do agree that VEI was very well produced and made some excellent comics. But I don't agree that it's the best we can hope for, having seen the VALIANT phenomenon first hand and experiencing how close they were to becoming a dominant force in the industry. IMO that's not just nostalgia talking, there are reasons that comics like Brubaker's Cap and the Walking Dead break through to a wide audience while others don't. I appreciate the thoughtful discussion.

Is it time to revamp again with this opportunity via Alien? I think it’s a grey area right now - we aren’t really far enough away from Dinesh’s VEI for a full relaunch, and yet I feel we could do with some distance from much of the DMG material.

The thing is DMG is still in control, that tempers my expectations quite a bit.

In all fairness, your comment about Ninjak #0 is like saying you saw one episode of breaking bad. It was about a fly. Everyone loved it but you learned nothing about the characters. If you haven't read a lot of VEI I could see why you feel the way you do. Walking Dead is an anomaly. Brubaker's Cap is no where near as popular (despite being fantastic) nor is it a break through hit with a wide audience like Walking Dead. I also dare say that VEI did a lot of books as good and better than Brubaker's Cap. They really did build a universe that rewarded you for reading everything. Try Shadowman #0 for a one shot that might be more what you were looking for in Ninjak #0. If it's not, hopefully you'll still enjoy it. It's one of my favorite comics.

[syzhang28]

#RestoreTheShooterverse

Hot take, it hasn't aged well. There are some great ideas but the execution feels even older than the 90s, you can feel the rush they were under too, and the sexual proclivities Shooter often includes in his stores are done in a way that we would no longer consider them appropriately handled.

They aged well enough that there were still a lot of fans in the 2000s, without which there would be no VEI. Almost nothing made in the 90s or even 2000s would be considered PC by today's standards.

My question to all the people who voted Dino, what would be different this time around? Most people seem to agree that it was losing steam towards the end, so what would change and how would they break through to a wider audience when they couldn't the last time around?

I agree with the statement about the 90s

I don't agree that VEI had a losing streak towards the end. I think people confuse the post Dinesh era with the Dinesh era. He wasn't able to keep the quality after he left because he wasn't there. His last year saw their biggest breakout hits and some of the best books like X-O Manowar with Matt Kindt (which I think sold over 100,000 copies), Bloodshot Reborn, Ninja-K. All huge books with big creators and great stories. You can't judge the issues that came out after he left on those books or any books that launched after he left except maybe Life and Death of Toyo Harada which Joshua Dysart said was very much created while Dinesh was there. Same for Jim Shooter after he left. Turok, Hard Corps etc. probably would have been great if he had overseen them. imo

Fair points, that answers my question. My perception of losing steam might be a personal feeling or based on the long running Dysart and Venditti runs ending. But some people might like Kindt and Lemire better. I'll give those runs another look.

I remain a big fan of the Dinesh-led VEI era, there are plenty of fantastic series from that time - but I do think there were also some misfires among the classics they created. That Generation Zero title was a particularly disappointing book to me. Poor use of some great characters created by Dysart in his Harbinger run. Terrible waste of potential on that one.

Gen Zero was a huge missed opportunity. They definitely had misses (Dead Drop was the worst) but I think you judge based on the hit to miss ratio. And theirs was incredibly strong.

[leonmallett]

I'm opting for new blood provided they understand what makes VALIANT different from DC, Marvel, and Image.

Agreed.

[ManofTheAtom]

I'm opting for new blood provided they understand what makes VALIANT different from DC, Marvel, and Image.

Agreed.

Thanks.

[GammaJosh]

I think if they're looking to rekindle the sense of tight continuity they should bring in one person to head the line, essentially like what Hickman did for X-Men. Have one head writer who writes a title or two and guides everything else. I'd love to see them give Dan Abnett a shot since he did such a good job with Rai. I'm 100% sure he would nail it with all the 4002 A.D. future titles.

[GammaJosh]

The thing is DMG is still in control, that tempers my expectations quite a bit.

This is a licensing deal for Alien. They may have minimum requirements but there's probably no maximum limit beyond what they think would be profitable. And I highly doubt DMG will meddle with characters, plots, creative teams, etc. I bet no one at DMG can name more than a handful of Valiant characters.

[Ryan]

The thing is DMG is still in control, that tempers my expectations quite a bit.

This is a licensing deal for Alien. They may have minimum requirements but there's probably no maximum limit beyond what they think would be profitable. And I highly doubt DMG will meddle with characters, plots, creative teams, etc. I bet no one at DMG can name more than a handful of Valiant characters.

How many VALIANT characters do you think Alien could name before the deal? The fact that they've already said it's not a reboot shows DMG at least has some say in the creative direction. I'll try to reserve judgment until more information comes out.

[Ryan]

I think if they're looking to rekindle the sense of tight continuity they should bring in one person to head the line, essentially like what Hickman did for X-Men. Have one head writer who writes a title or two and guides everything else. I'd love to see them give Dan Abnett a shot since he did such a good job with Rai. I'm 100% sure he would nail it with all the 4002 A.D. future titles.

Good point. Having a head writer would probably be the only way to do something like that.

[ManofTheAtom]

It seems like DMG has become to VALIANT what Random/Golden Books was to Solar, Magnus, and Turok, while Alien is to VALIANT what Voyager, Dark Horse, and Dynamite were to those three characters.

[Ryan]

It seems like DMG has become to VALIANT what Random/Golden Books was to Solar, Magnus, and Turok, while Alien is to VALIANT what Voyager, Dark Horse, and Dynamite were to those three characters.

That's crazy to think about, but you're right.

Makes it even harder to imagine VALIANT and GK3 sharing a universe going forward. I guess it's possible, but licensing characters from 2 different sources into one shared universe seems unlikely.

[ManofTheAtom]

It seems like DMG has become to VALIANT what Random/Golden Books was to Solar, Magnus, and Turok, while Alien is to VALIANT what Voyager, Dark Horse, and Dynamite were to those three characters.

That's crazy to think about, but you're right.

Makes it even harder to imagine VALIANT and GK3 sharing a universe going forward. I guess it's possible, but licensing characters from 2 different sources into one shared universe seems unlikely.

But hopefully not impossible.

[GammaJosh]

The fact that they've already said it's not a reboot shows DMG at least has some say in the creative direction.

How do you figure? I think that shows your own bias more than anything else. I personally don't want a reboot or return to OG continuity. I've invested 11 years reading VEI/DMG Valiant books, and in my opinion the relatively few books of questionable quality haven't ruined anything. You could pick back up with any of these characters and as long as the new stories are good, the continuity is fine and not too complex to burden new readers.

[GammaJosh]

How many VALIANT characters do you think Alien could name before the deal?

Considering Alien has already been publishing Valiant comics overseas, I'd guess a lot of them. You're talking about a small venture run by people who chose to get into comic book publishing and then chose to pursue a license with Valiant, and you assume they don't know or have any affinity for the characters? I wouldn't take that bet.

[Ryan]

The fact that they've already said it's not a reboot shows DMG at least has some say in the creative direction.

How do you figure? I think that shows your own bias more than anything else. I personally don't want a reboot or return to OG continuity. I've invested 11 years reading VEI/DMG Valiant books, and in my opinion the relatively few books of questionable quality haven't ruined anything. You could pick back up with any of these characters and as long as the new stories are good, the continuity is fine and not too complex to burden new readers.

Huh? Mota said he saw on Facebook Alien said it won't be a reboot, and I'm saying that shows to me that DMG still has some input into what they do. I could be wrong, since I don't actually know, but how does that show my bias? If anything I'd be biased toward a reboot, but I don't think which continuity is used is that important at this point.

[Ryan]

How many VALIANT characters do you think Alien could name before the deal?

Considering Alien has already been publishing Valiant comics overseas, I'd guess a lot of them. You're talking about a small venture run by people who chose to get into comic book publishing and then chose to pursue a license with Valiant, and you assume they don't know or have any affinity for the characters? I wouldn't take that bet.

That's new information to me. Thanks for sharing