The Woke Comics Backlash Begins

[Dallow Spicer1]

Every generation seems to become more and more queer. This is just a fact.

"Seems" and "fact" is a little incongruent, imo.

I'm just saying that it's not a problem that Superman's son is bisexual.

It's not a problem, it's just stupid. This is the Atom Bomb of gaying up a title. I guess we're gonna find out.

I'll even play Devil's Advocate here by bringing up Valiant's first gay character: Ken Clarkson wasn't an issue for me in any way in 1992. I don't object to the idea of gay characters in comic books, just the volume. When you see it in book after book after book, one gets the sense that they're not so much adding a little variety to the character lineup as they are pushing an agenda.

And if your 20% assertion is to be believed, it proves the point. When people talk about grooming, this is it. Drown young people in homosexual material and before ya know it, 13 year olds are getting hormone therapy without a parent's consent and girls are permanently altering their bodies.

When I was a kid in the 70s, everyone wanted to be an astronaut. Now they wanna be RuPaul. Start learning Chinese.

+1

@the ferg - didn’t have you down as a Dem Who is OP that you refer to?

I think with regards to the whole woke thing, we’re not over the worst of it just yet but I think in the near future it’ll be seriously scaled back as companies realise it’s a losing strategy….looking at you Netflix

[lorddunlow]

I read about a study wherein they studied young adults who identify as some kind of gay and asked if they had had a sexual encounter with a person of the same gender in the last few years and fewer than half had. In many cases, this was more a political identity than a sexual one.

I would suspect that a study of young adults who identify as straight who are asked if they have had a sexual encounter with a person of the opposite gender in the last few years would find fewer than half had. In many cases, this would be more a hopeful identity than a sexual one.

:spit take:

This made me chuckle heartily. Thanks Greg.

I think Greg solved the dilemma. The youngsters have figured out they can double their chances of sexual gratification by expanding the net of possibles...

[Chiclo]

I read about a study wherein they studied young adults who identify as some kind of gay and asked if they had had a sexual encounter with a person of the same gender in the last few years and fewer than half had. In many cases, this was more a political identity than a sexual one.

I would suspect that a study of young adults who identify as straight who are asked if they have had a sexual encounter with a person of the opposite gender in the last few years would find fewer than half had. In many cases, this would be more a hopeful identity than a sexual one.

:spit take:

This made me chuckle heartily. Thanks Greg.

I think Greg solved the dilemma. The youngsters have figured out they can double their chances of sexual gratification by expanding the net of possibles...

I told my friend Mason, sometimes if the fish aren’t biting, you can try throwing your bait on the other side of the boat.

[jmatt]

Hmm, a Dunlow sighting. How are ya, buddy?

Doing great! Living the life in sunny Florida. Good job. How about you?

Doing well, thanks. In the process of getting a saltwater reef aquarium up and running... but it's very slow going (and super expensive).

[jmatt]

Please submit proof to back up this claim, because the way I see it, there are probably multitudes of factors that lead to Gen Z being queer af, and agenda-driven, low-selling comics are hardly #1 on the list. I do find it troubling that some lefties think it's okay to push children to transition and use hormone blockers, but I think it's pretty rare for kids to go through any kind of surgery.

Well, okay, maybe not surgeries for kids, but teens and early 20s.

I was reading something the other day about a school where you're not allowed to wear an American flag, but the teachers were encouraging boys to wear dresses for Pride Month.

Anti-American and grooming. That's quite a feat. I'm sure the perfect reader for the Superman title.

Speaking of which, is there any word on the sales for said title? I went looking and it's a hodge-podge of reports that it's not even in the top 50 and ongoing assertions by the writer that it is super-popular.

Hey, so if anyone questions my bona-fides, I had a gay room mate in college for two years. We shared a single dorm room. He was my best friend for years. I'd sometime wake up in the morning and he'd have a boyfriend in bed with him. Every now and again, I'd hit a gay bar with him, just to say I did it. He encouraged me to flirt so we'd get free drinks (couldn't bring myself to do it). lol Btw, I've seen the inside of the men's room at a dive gay bar. Wow.

[jmatt]

I would suspect that a study of young adults who identify as straight who are asked if they have had a sexual encounter with a person of the opposite gender in the last few years would find fewer than half had. In many cases, this would be more a hopeful identity than a sexual one.

I agree that it's very possible that a good portion of young people identifying as homosexual are more virtue signaling than actually gay.

I don't know where to put this in the thread but this is as good as anywhere: Apart from a few people out there with ill intent, this all comes from a good place. We taught our kids to be understanding and kind and accepting, and they are.

The problem is that no one wants to be the person whose not getting on the woke bandwagon. And so every comic book writer has his gay characters and every marketing manager stuffs his commercials from end to end with non-white people, and so on.... to the point where it's blatantly obvious what's going on and the backlash begins.

I appreciate that they're open and accepting. But for Pete's sake, stop beating us over the head with it and keep your agendas out of the public schools. Leave kids alone. Enough.

[TheFerg714]

@the ferg - didn’t have you down as a Dem Who is OP that you refer to?

If I was forced to choose between Democrat and Republican, I think Democrat would be a pretty easy choice for me. My values generally tend to lie on the left of this dichotomy. "OP" means original poster, so jmatt.

More importantly though, I hate the Republicans, I hate the Dems, I hate the elites, I hate division, and I think labels are often incredibly reductive. So if you want to know my opinion on any given subject, feel free to ask. I think I've shown in this thread that I have opinions that lie on both sides of the (modern politics) aisle, and I just think it's important to try to see where everyone is coming from, even if you find it to be abhorrent at first glance.

It was my understanding that bisexual is kind of out of vogue, that there is some stigma against bisexuals for not being inclusive enough.

I believe that's what you would call a radical viewpoint. Most lefties probably find this argument to be asinine.

Maybe comic companies should release a conservative version and a liberal version of their biggest characters in order to appeal to fans of both political persuasions.

I would unironically love this, as long as it's applied to different characters. It was such a good idea to make Cap a conservative and Thor a liberal in Millar's Ultimates.

Speaking of which, is there any word on the sales for said title? I went looking and it's a hodge-podge of reports that it's not even in the top 50 and ongoing assertions by the writer that it is super-popular.

I generally agree with the rest of your post, but I don't think sales has anything to do with whether Jon should be bisexual or not.

[depluto]

With a couple of exceptions I love everybody. I don't really care how they feel about themselves but I respect their right to feel that way.

Also "grooming" is a weird word. I've been taking my dog to a groomer for a while ... I hope they're not doing butt stuff.

Also if Superman was gay, that really would be sad for him if he wasn't packing.

If Batman was gay I bet he would growl really loud when he reached orgasm. Probably if he was straight, too, though.

[jmatt]

... but I don't think sales has anything to do with whether Jon should be bisexual or not.

That actually makes it worse, imo. Because if they don't care about sales of the title then it confirms that it is nothing more than a political/cultural agenda (which we all know it is anyway).

[TheFerg714]

That actually makes it worse, imo. Because if they don't care about sales of the title then it confirms that it is nothing more than a political/cultural agenda (which we all know it is anyway).

Money should not be the only driving force behind creative decisions.

[Dallow Spicer1]

That actually makes it worse, imo. Because if they don't care about sales of the title then it confirms that it is nothing more than a political/cultural agenda (which we all know it is anyway).

Money should not be the only driving force behind creative decisions.

Biased political agendas shouldn’t be anywhere near a driver for creating a comic book.

Also, where’s your review of A&A forever?

[possumgrease]

If Batman was gay I bet he would growl really loud when he reached orgasm. Probably if he was straight, too, though.

Oh, you know he growls and probably let's out a gruff "Martha!"

[The Chosen 1]

If Batman was gay I bet he would growl really loud when he reached orgasm. Probably if he was straight, too, though.

Oh, you know he growls and probably let's out a gruff "Martha!"

[JonesyAZ]

Can we get back to posting about Valiant Comics around here? Fact…both political sides work hard to brainwash their followers to hate the other side. Unplug from ALL the garbage media and if you decide to read a comic, read the comic and enjoy it or not at face value.

Most human beings want to live in peace and be free to live how they want. It’s that *SQUEE* simple.

[greg]

Fact…both political sides work hard to brainwash their followers to hate the other side.

http://valiantfan.com/images/politics_c ... _tunes.png

[kjjohanson]

The truth, in a nutshell.

[kjjohanson]

Every generation seems to become more and more queer. This is just a fact.

"Seems" and "fact" is a little incongruent, imo.

I'm just saying that it's not a problem that Superman's son is bisexual.

It's not a problem, it's just stupid. This is the Atom Bomb of gaying up a title. I guess we're gonna find out.

I think replacing the cape with the red leather *SQUEE*-less chaps was going too far.

[kjjohanson]

Ah yes. Suddenly overnight 20% of the population became homosexual. Sounds totally realistic. I guess we're destined to live in Gay Superman's world from now on.

This is just the brainwashing (dare I say grooming?) kicking in. The trans fad started a few years back and now every third girl think she's really a boy. It's working!

This is all stupid games being played on immature minds, and not why I read comic books. Well, actually, I don't anymore so I guess they won. Maybe that's why titles have like 5,000 readers nowadays.

What does it matter why 20% of Gen. Z identify as LGBTQ? The fact of the matter is that they do! Whether it's natural, or brainwashing, or a fad, or whatever you want to call it, it's still happening. Every generation seems to become more and more queer. This is just a fact. Being a trendy fad might explain some of this, but the more likely explanation is that, nowadays, people are less afraid to act out who they are on the inside, because people are generally more accepting of outside-of-the-norm lifestyles, and I think that's a great thing. More importantly though, it makes sense to represent that in media, especially media like Marvel/DC, which essentially take place in the real world.

Note: I'm not saying 20% of Gen. Z characters should be LGBTQ. I'm just saying that it's not a problem that Superman's son is bisexual.

I don't think it's a matter of "Every generation seems to become more and more queer." I think it's more that every generation is increasingly accepting of people in the LGBTQ community, so those in that community are increasingly willing to be open about who they are. Should we get to the point where all of society is fine with it – we've obviously got a ways to go still – then I think you'd see the numbers level off.

[kjjohanson]

Maybe comic companies should release a conservative version and a liberal version of their biggest characters in order to appeal to fans of both political persuasions.

Yes.

You know where I'm going with this.

I'm going here:

Now I'm curious what liberal Punisher would be like.

[kjjohanson]

I read about a study wherein they studied young adults who identify as some kind of gay and asked if they had had a sexual encounter with a person of the same gender in the last few years and fewer than half had. In many cases, this was more a political identity than a sexual one.

Some people find the right person and stick with that person. It doesn't mean you're not still *attracted* to other people. I figure the same probably goes for bisexual people. Your orientation, as I understand it, is defined by who you're sexually attracted to, not by whom you might be currently hooking up with.

[armlessphelan]

As the token actual gay person who occasionally posts on this board (I know most of y'all barely know who I am), I agree that woke stuff is cringe. But a character being gay, or black, or trans, or a woman isn't by itself being woke. Woke is when you spend all your time preaching about how virtuous it is to hate straight white men because they're all closet rapists. Roku getting a mediocre miniseries from Valiant is not woke. Jonathan Kent having a boyfriend is not woke. Anything Vita Ayala writes is probably woke and just terrible.

As for the grooming stuff? I came out of the closet in the year 2000. I was in the 7th grade and raised by hardcore fundamentalist Christians who screamed at me that I was an abomination and burning in hell. People at school would tell me to kill myself and shove me into lockers with threats of worse violence. More than once I had to change my schedule to get out of classes where things like scissors thrown at me. And only one teacher ever defended me, and she only did it one time. So when I hear people say that teaching kids to be nice to queer people is grooming I get miffed. Because I've been that kid who wanted to kill himself over homophobia, and that's all this moral panic over grooming is.

The reason there seems to be more queer kids nowadays is because these kids feel more comfortable coming out because each successive generation is more accepting than the one that preceded it. Sure, it's trendy to be nonbinary, but that doesn't change the fact that there are trans kids who go through the required therapy and have supportive parents and are still denied hormones or puberty blockers because of bigotry. No ethical doctor will do sexual reassignment surgery on a minor, but as soon as the kid turns 18 they are an adult and should have control over their own body. We don't tell 18-year-olds they can't get breast implants, so why should we bar them from getting mastectomies? And while I've never had dysphoria, I've talked to enough people who have that I'm willing to believe them when they say that having a five o'clock shadow or a period makes them want to die.

[TheFerg714]

As the token actual gay person who occasionally posts on this board

I'm a token gay too!

[Dallow Spicer1]

As the token actual gay person who occasionally posts on this board (I know most of y'all barely know who I am), I agree that woke stuff is cringe. But a character being gay, or black, or trans, or a woman isn't by itself being woke. Woke is when you spend all your time preaching about how virtuous it is to hate straight white men because they're all closet rapists. Roku getting a mediocre miniseries from Valiant is not woke. Jonathan Kent having a boyfriend is not woke. Anything Vita Ayala writes is probably woke and just terrible.

In my view, whilst I agree ‘woke’ can be anti white male sentiment I also think it’s when companies have a deliberate agenda to manipulate people’s social views.
So, having gay, ethnic, female characters isn’t ‘woke’ per se, but when there’s a deliberate strategy to push a narrative which you see across companies and in the media in general at the same time it’s blatantly not organic and is part of a movement. This must be obvious to anyone or else you’re just not paying attention.

In comics the reality is that the vast majority of customers are still white males (to some peoples disgust). Not because there’s never been female, gay or ethnic characters in the past as those books have been on the shelves for decades but have never proven to consistently sell as there isn’t enough of those comic buying demographics to sustain the books. Maybe it’s a cultural thing. However, for some bizarre reason, companies seem obsessed with making white males read about those characters regardless of popularity.

I think Valiant did this correctly with Divinity, an interesting new concept and you can either take it or leave it. They didn’t change Ninjak to being a black character.

As for the gay, bi etc. I think for the most part Western society has thankfully moved on in the past 20 years and it’s much easier (didn’t say easy) to come out. However, there’s obviously a fad happening, a bit like punks in the 70’s. I’m sure the number of people who identified as a punk was relatively high compared to today. In 10 years time if they check back with the people who ‘claimed’ to be gay, bi, non binary etc in 2022 I’m sure they’ll get a much lower number.

So it’s about context. Launching a Roku mini series in isolation isn’t woke but if you looked at Valiant’s publishing schedule around that time and the broader media industry then it’s clear what’s actually happening.

[armlessphelan]

As the token actual gay person who occasionally posts on this board

I'm a token gay too!

Go us! *Returns to lurking*

[Dallow Spicer1]

As the token actual gay person who occasionally posts on this board

I'm a token gay too!

Go us! *Returns to lurking*

Glad everyone feels confident being themselves on the board.