Counterfeit Valiant book UPDATE , FYI

[Chiclo]

This thread has peaked. I weep, both for the beauty of this meme and that I cannot foresee this thread will get any better.

And yet... a peak that... “sneak”ed up on us... I do have a stash of counterfeit Valiant comics already! THEY DO EXIST

[Chiclo]

I want to believe.

[Sunlight on Snow]

Is this photo a “fake.” I think you may have...dare I say it...altered this photo. What are you actually trying to say....

Maybe it's as fake as Valiant counterfeits?!?

[Blood of Heroes]

Holy sh¡t, dude

[Blood of Heroes]

[Blood of Heroes]

[Blood of Heroes]

http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p1103865

[valiantdude]

Remember that time you tried to get me banned, but no one cared about your wah wah..

Also, shooter was there when they were originally printed, he wrote and produced the books you genius

dinesh has as much knowledge as you do about it, clearly
His opinion is worthless

R/bohcantmeme

Also, the wife beating jokes..so....low

[valiantdude]

Like I said, the amount of crow that will be eaten is stunning

[MrsChiclo ACTIONSCIENTIST]

I just heard from Fred. The counterfeits were all Archer & Armstrong 0. I just happen to have a short box full. Please contact me if interested and I can get you a great deal!

[greg]

Like I said, the amount of crow that will be eaten is stunning

Jim said he didn't remember the details. You've provided us with none.
We're ready to check our books and you called this "Red Alert".

Now, you're upset that everyone you called here with "911" is just joking around because there's nothing to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI

[greg]

The answer is obvious... Unity #0 RED is the counterfeit.

Evidence:

• Unity #0 RED came out immediately before Eternal Warrior #1. The counterfeits are supposed to be pre-EW #1.

• Unity #0 RED has a red "Chapter One" bar at the top. All 18 Unity chapters are blue bars. Red does not work with 17 blue bar chapters.

• Unity #0 RED was not available from all Valiant distributors at the time. It got caught in the sting, but it was too late to get them all back.

• Unity #0 RED is the ONLY Valiant book that Joe Petrilak said could not be found in NYC. It might have started in the Mid-West.

• Unity #0 RED is supposedly a Valiant premium book that doesn't have Gold or Platinum ink? There weren't any until years later.

• Unity #0 RED became well-known, so Chaos Effect Alpha Red was created to imply legit Valiant premiums can be red. It's just a cover story.

• Unity #0 RED does not have an altered price box. It is identical to Unity #0 BLUE. All legit Valiant premiums have an altered price box.

• Unity #0 RED was a free book, why would anyone make a premium version of a free book? A million times $0.00 is still $0.00.

• Unity #0 RED doesn't have two versions - legit vs. counterfeit. That's why we can't compare two copies. All of them are fakes.

• Unity #0 RED would only need to have the cover counterfeited. It was easy to get the legit inside pages from Unity #0 BLUE. They were free.

• Unity #0 RED only has one change to the cover vs. blue. Even early 1990s printers could change blue to red. That wasn't a technological feat.

Conclusion... for lack of any other solid information to work with ...

Unity #0 BLUE is legit. Unity #0 RED is counterfeit.



"If it doesn't fit, you must acquit." - Johnnie Cochran

[depluto]

I think if Nazis had done Valiant books they would have maybe counterfeited some. But honestly, they would have been terrible. Have you ever seen Triumph of the Will? And that’s high art? Blech.

Please, please, let’s keep Nazis out of the comic creation process.

[greg]

I think if Nazis had done Valiant books they would have maybe counterfeited some. But honestly, they would have been terrible. Have you ever seen Triumph of the Will? And that’s high art? Blech.

Please, please, let’s keep Nazis out of the comic creation process.

That's an important point. All classic internet discussions must reference Godwin's Law. Nicely done.

[betterthanezra]

I didn’t think this many people posted anymore

-Brian

[valiantdude]

It's a true disruption..love it..
Greg, the details are he said thousands of copies of every single preunity book, he started naming them consecutively.

Wheres james o'barr? The crow is coming

[greg]

It's a true disruption..love it..
Greg, the details are he said thousands of copies of every single preunity book, he started naming them consecutively.

Does Jim Shooter remember selling thousands of copies of every single pre-Unity book to Chuck Rozanski in Colorado and Greg Buls in Arizona?
We know both dealers had thousands of copies of those books, but if they didn't get them from a legit source, then we have the answer.
Do those states east of California count as "Mid-West"?

[Ramses818]

Wow this thread was special.. arguing over if Jim shooter lied. Citing Bleeding Cool? Should we also cite the article where they have Tony Isabella calling Shooter a liar? Saying Shooter lies about lots of things? Who really cares? It was over 30 years ago and has zero effect on anything now. It’s a interesting tidbit or trivia nugget but that’s all. Trust that Fred has many more far interesting stories to share.

[ckb]

It would be great if we could just take Shooter's word on this but really, we cannot. There has to be more meat behind a 30 year old assertion that he never happened to mention before. Fred's take that Dino reported seems likely to me - Shooter has convinced himself this is true. I certainly don't think he is lying, with intent, but that doesn't mean he is correct.

Memory is a strange thing. I am sure there are some things I recollect from 30 years ago that didn't quite actually happen.

What I do know is this....

- I was buying and selling Valiants on USENET and at shows all up and down the east coast from 1991-1994. So buying in person and through the mail from all over North America.

- I literally had a thousand pre-unity books pass through my hands. This is not an exaggeration. When I picked up the hobby again with the advent of CGC from about 2005-2015, maybe 500 more passed through my hands.

- Even back in the day we scrutinized everything. Stapling, centering, color strike. I knew the varieties and printing defects and the like intimately. Every pre-unity book was my personal friend.

- I never had any inkling anything I ever looked at was not authentic. The closest I can say I came were the blank-coupon harbingers. And given the coupon was the easiest part of the book to reproduce this never rose above a curiosity.

- CGC has, at this point, looked at ~10K pre-unity books? More? And none have caught their eye either.

- It is REALLY HARD to print a book in the valiant style of 1992. You weren't going to do it with 1992 photo-stat tech, it would look terrible.

Dino is probably right. Somehow a story about books disappearing from the printer or the distribution chain got twisted into what Shooter is recalling. The razor gets applied and it always cuts deep. I am still open to the story having some grain of truth somewhere in it, but we definitely need solid corroboration from people who were there at the time.

[orbitalshift]

As others have said actually counterfeiting books is exceptionally difficult. However, overprinting isn't. My guess is that is what Shooter is likely referring to and it is fairly common. Most printers print an overage to replace damaged books. It would not surprise me to find out some of these made it out the back door and into the market. But these books would likely be indistinguishable from the regular print run. It's not really accurate to call them counterfeits as they would have been printed on the same press and likely at the same time.

[caxiotis]

Honestly this seems like what Jim is remembering

https://recalledcomics.com/EternalWarrior1GoldFlat.php

[valiantdude]

See....now ckb is confused by the generic fred quote..

The fred quote does not apply to this situation, it is a general quote... meaningless as a direct rebuttle

[valiantdude]

Orbitalshift- there would not have been a sting operation on overprinting, doesnt matter if you like bleeding cool, they quote the podcast so you dont have to listen to 4 hours, and it gives you a reference point.. check that article

[nycjadie]

It would be great if we could just take Shooter's word on this but really, we cannot. There has to be more meat behind a 30 year old assertion that he never happened to mention before. Fred's take that Dino reported seems likely to me - Shooter has convinced himself this is true. I certainly don't think he is lying, with intent, but that doesn't mean he is correct.

Memory is a strange thing. I am sure there are some things I recollect from 30 years ago that didn't quite actually happen.

What I do know is this....

- I was buying and selling Valiants on USENET and at shows all up and down the east coast from 1991-1994. So buying in person and through the mail from all over North America.

- I literally had a thousand pre-unity books pass through my hands. This is not an exaggeration. When I picked up the hobby again with the advent of CGC from about 2005-2015, maybe 500 more passed through my hands.

- Even back in the day we scrutinized everything. Stapling, centering, color strike. I knew the varieties and printing defects and the like intimately. Every pre-unity book was my personal friend.

- I never had any inkling anything I ever looked at was not authentic. The closest I can say I came were the blank-coupon harbingers. And given the coupon was the easiest part of the book to reproduce this never rose above a curiosity.

- CGC has, at this point, looked at ~10K pre-unity books? More? And none have caught their eye either.

- It is REALLY HARD to print a book in the valiant style of 1992. You weren't going to do it with 1992 photo-stat tech, it would look terrible.

Dino is probably right. Somehow a story about books disappearing from the printer or the distribution chain got twisted into what Shooter is recalling. The razor gets applied and it always cuts deep. I am still open to the story having some grain of truth somewhere in it, but we definitely need solid corroboration from people who were there at the time.

I have owned 1000s and prescreened many more pre-Unity books on the west coast! Same thought as Chris.

[valiantdude]

How about this...instead of thinking of all the ways it couldn't be true... try to think of how it could be true..

The funny thing is it's probably right in front of our noses..
Just right there..

Or someone besides DInesh, because he wouldn't admit it if fred told him at this point, actually CONTACT FRED PIERCE,
Then that would clear it up, he is mossad after all, he may lie, he may not..

Btw dont forget dinesh dropped that lawsuit against jim, and he tried to use dark horse as some tactic.. the liars usually are the ones that drop lawsuits, after legally attacking someone