29 years of collecting Valiant...

[greg]

A few posts lately have devolved into arguments of a political nature which talk around the subject of current or upcoming Valiant comics, but not specifically about those Valiant comics.

What's wrong with ValiantFans.com?

In 2004, our passion for Valiant to return to publishing someday was unique among comic fans online.
This board was created on the same day as Facebook, and for a day or two, we probably even had more members since the board was a re-launch of an earlier Valiant fan messageboard from 2002.

2004 was exactly 10 years after most people (whether they were ever collectors or not) gave up on Valiant comics. Too many printed, too many want to sell, no one wanted to buy ...1994... the comic industry crash.

But we were here in 2004, talking about Valiant when no one else was. In 2005, rumor had it that Valiant might return. Acclaim went bankrupt and the Valiant properties were for sale... cautious excitement! Better get those old Valiant books now, before Valiant returns and they're impossible to find!

We lived through the 7 years (7 YEARS!) between the Acclaim auction and the return of Valiant to monthly publishing, starting with X-O Manowar #1 in May 2012.
That was 21 years after Magnus #1 in May 1991. Had Valiant Comics officially grown up? Being 21 years old is "full adulthood" in the United States, so in a sense, Valiant was like Marvel in the 1980s or D.C. in the 1950s-1960s. Yes, there was a gap between the 1990s and 2012, but the Valiant ideas were 21.

Now it's 2020 - a full 29 years after Magnus #1 in May 1991 - so what's the problem?

Well, Marvel was 29 years old in 1980. What was happening at Marvel in 1980? Ummm... if comic book values are any indication... not much.
Name a popular 1980 Marvel comic... yeah... it takes a minute... the introduction of She-Hulk. Can you imagine She-Hulk arriving in 2020?
Marvel fans would lose their minds arguing about "political correctness" why-does-Hulk-need-to-be-female neverending discussion that would sound like... Valiant fans in 2020.
EDIT BY GREG: Math mistake - if we use 1961 as the "start" of Marvel, 29 years would be 1990, not 1980.
If you start Marvel with Captain America, the 29th year would be 1970, when the whole industry entered the "Bronze Age" and there were big changes at Marvel.
Let's also use 1990 as an example, too. Marvel in 1990 was starting Spider-Man over (again, for at least the 4th time/4th Spider-Man title) and X-Men restart was next.
Doesn't that sound like rebooting X-O Manowar or Shadowman for the 4th time right about now?

D.C. (specifically Superman and Batman) reached 29 years old in 1967-1968. What was happening at D.C. in 1967-1968? Ummm... Superman and Batman had been "silly" for several years - talking animals, funny covers, and "it was just a dream" stories. Batman television - fun? yes - serious? no.

Here we are after 29 years of Valiant - without Magnus and Solar who got it started - asking ourselves "What's wrong with Valiant fans?"

Perhaps nothing is wrong. Perhaps we're exactly where Marvel and D.C. fans were in Year 29.

How excited should Valiant fans be right now about the 29th year of Valiant - or the 8th year after the restart?
Are those momentous dates in the history of comics? Did "it just kept getting better every year" apply to Marvel or DC at this age?

Sure, dealing with a pandemic could be part of it.
Sure, presidential election year politics could be part of it.
Sure, circular social and societal discussions could be part of it.
Sure, publisher changes and publishing outlook could be part of it.
Sure, fatigue with the news and pretty much everything online could be part of it.
On and on, etc.

But if anyone thinks it's all over for Valiant because 2020 isn't the greatest year ever, I'll point to Marvel and D.C. history. They were at low points, too. They both did "OK" in at least a few of the years that followed - even if their biggest fans walked away (or lost interest) for a while.

If you had a time machine and could go back and collect Marvel in 1970/1980/1990 or D.C. in 1967, what would you buy?

It's time to do that for Valiant.

[Juki]

Nicely written Greg. The comic history lesson for Marvel and DC does give me another perspective as to actually how young Valiant actually is...and where Valiant is at currently. So, the most important part for me is “what should we be collecting of Valiant now in 2020?” Should it be VH1, Acclaim, or VEI? Or.... soon to be published Valiants?

[FormerReader]

Greg,

I like the discussion and some of the points you make. I think we need to look at the unique (and repeating) history of Valiant to understand the frustration on the board. What happened to Dinesh reflects what happened to Shooter and as quality and cohesion left 1990s Valiant, we see this occurring again today with the flight of most of the talent Dinesh and team brought in. I think Dinesh could push the political boundaries to either side because the quality was there. I didn’t see the quality anymore so I quit collecting Valiant. I think DMG is not qualified to run Valiant, which is represented in the lack of publishing and poor quality. I hate to say it, but I look forward to the next 2004 so that we can hope for the next 2012.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I think right now the immediate future looks bleak. We’ve had 2 years of mostly very poor books and nothing coming down the line inspires confidence that the current owners and editors have listened to what customers want.

At this point I think I’d prefer Valiant to stop publishing altogether and change ownership. Clear the decks, learn lessons and hope Dinesh or a Dinesh-type visionary gets involved again.

[IMJ]

A re-reading thread of the truly great Valiant stuff would be good. That is if everyone got on board. I hate to say it, but as much as I want to do that myself, I barely read my new books anymore. A good friend of mine sent me all of the new Cates Thor run and I read everything in a night. It was the first solid comic book I felt was a page turner in at least 5 or 6 years.

I could re-read the original Valiant stuff maybe through Unity, or even just go through my Deluxe Hardcovers again for the discussion of it.

[magnus20009]

Well written and I agree with what you said Greg.

I would add we need more positivism on the Boards. Let's not let the weight of 2020 get us down. There are plenty of great Valiant stories starting from when Turok was first published in the golden age through today.

[ShadowTuga]

Wasn't the X-Men REALLY big in 1980?

That aside , I think that you are forgetting one minor detail, if I may: both DC and Marvel had been huge in popular culture at some point before they turned 21. DC invented the genre of superheroes (and made a couple of them quite famous...) and Marvel was the 60's revolutionary pop culture force that no company ever managed to repeat.

In its og incarnation, Valiant was a success among comic book readers, and that's it. Granted, a HUGE success among this crowd, but who had heard of X-O Manowar or Toyo Harada outside the comic book fandom? Nobody. Or pretty close to that. I said it in my first post here, I had never heard of Valiant before 2012. Never, ever. And I was reading comics, even if not a monthly buyer. But my friend who knew-it-all - and a monthlies buyer since the 80s NEVER talked to me about Valiant, in fact, I was the one who told him in 2012.

In my pessimistic view, I think Valiant could have gone to be a powerhouse in the comics world when it comes to quality books. Sadly, that never came to happen when a suprisingly GOOD team was putting some of the best comics in the market. I still don't understand how dumb the market was to Valiant when it was a HOT company to get behind, with fantastic comics every month. I mean, the sales on Harbinger, Bloodshot Rising, Venditti's X-O, etc... just disheartening.

Now it seems things got real bad, very few books, and by what i read here, NOT so good. Is there reason to be optimistic right now, honestly? IMHO, no, but if Big Money With A Brain gets the rights to publish, who knows? I will use the following football example: one of the biggest clubs in Europe right now (Man City) was "DMG Valiant", less than 20 years ago. In a couple of years they used a huge money influx, bought a LOT of the most promising stars att and voila, they are Champion's League regulars. This took them from "that other crappy club in Machester" to "s*it, we got the City in the semis- we're done".

[nycjadie]

This used to be THE place to get info on Valiant comics. It’s really not anymore. Still, I come every day and participate when and where I can. I miss some of the mega Valiant fans that used to be here. I’m more concerned about that. They left and are doing other things, likely because they are no longer interested. That is significant when the mega fans feign interest.

Anyway, at some point I’ll share more of my collection in the near future, when I can. And perhaps publishing will start again in a real way, and we can discuss those.

As for Greg’s question, I wish I bought newsstands. I can’t find them in high grade. Anywhere. I can buy a Harbinger 1 at any time. Newsstands? Forget about it.

[GammaJosh]

There was a lot of crap in most eras, wasn't there? When I think about '80s comics, I don't think of all the crap that came out, or the general creative stagnation. I think of Claremont X-Men, Byrne FF, Simonson Thor, etc. Hopefully it will be the same with this era of Valiant comics. Will anyone remember The Visitor? Maybe not. But hopefully people will think of Rai as a strong title from this era. There are others that I think might be thrown in with Rai as positive examples, but I won't even bring them up since I don't want to stir up the natives.

As for arguing about politics, I admit that I escalate things. But I will not instigate. If I can show up and get through a thread without seeing anything political, I won't be the one to start down that road.

Here's an idea. Why don't you add terms like "SJW" and "forced diversity" to your profanity filter, or give them some fun effect like you did with Dynamite. Is "Dynamite sucks" not a thing anymore?

[greg]

Here's an idea. Why don't you add terms like "SJW" and "forced diversity" to your profanity filter

Because they're not profanity - they're a clear indication to anyone reading that someone has checked out of reality and built a shadow-boxing echo-chamber wall around themselves that would make Pink Floyd jealous. They might as well be the words "poo-poo head" and "planned naptime" the way the discussions mimic a kindergarten playground.

...or give them some fun effect like you did with Dynamite. Is "Dynamite sucks" not a thing anymore?

Dynamite sucked for 15 years on this board, and they still suck in the real world, but they also blow. They're the Shop-Vac of publishers.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Here's an idea. Why don't you add terms like "SJW" and "forced diversity" to your profanity filter, or give them some fun effect like you did with Dynamite. Is "Dynamite sucks" not a thing anymore?

I think that idea has already been done...check out George Orwell’s 1984...

“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words”

[GammaJosh]

Here's an idea. Why don't you add terms like "SJW" and "forced diversity" to your profanity filter, or give them some fun effect like you did with Dynamite. Is "Dynamite sucks" not a thing anymore?

I think that idea has already been done...check out George Orwell’s 1984...

“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words”

You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, and you can't drop the N-bomb without being drummed out of polite society. And this isn't eve a public space. Man I wish the block function completely blocked you instead of alerting me when you post.

[lorddunlow]

Let's not forget that Marvel went bankrupt and sold most of its rights in awful deals before Iron Man and the MCU hit paydirt.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[mattboh]

Here's an idea. Why don't you add terms like "SJW" and "forced diversity" to your profanity filter, or give them some fun effect like you did with Dynamite. Is "Dynamite sucks" not a thing anymore?

I think that idea has already been done...check out George Orwell’s 1984...

“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words”

You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, and you can't drop the N-bomb without being drummed out of polite society. And this isn't eve a public space. Man I wish the block function completely blocked you instead of alerting me when you post.

"True freedom is the ability to shout theater in a crowded fire." Abbie Hoffman

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Blood of Heroes]

Dynamite sucked for 15 years on this board, and they still suck in the real world, but they also blow. They're the Shop-Vac of publishers.

Chiclo tells me it's windy where he is because New Mexico sucks and Oklahoma blows. Or something like that.

[IMJ]

Let's not forget that Marvel went bankrupt and sold most of its rights in awful deals before Iron Man and the MCU hit paydirt.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

Isn't that somewhat analogous to the Bloodshot movie? Although instead of bankrupt comic company sells out and later produces hit movie, it's comic company at it's revitalized peak sells to investor who later produces failed comic book movie. There might be some ins and outs I'm mistaken about, but you get the point.

I'm truly, deeply hoping that Harbinger gets made and that it's a huge hit. Seriously.

[Tim]

But if anyone thinks it's all over for Valiant because 2020 isn't the greatest year ever, I'll point to Marvel and D.C. history. They were at low points, too. They both did "OK" in at least a few of the years that followed - even if their biggest fans walked away (or lost interest) for a while.

If you had a time machine and could go back and collect Marvel in 1970/1980/1990 or D.C. in 1967, what would you buy?

It's time to do that for Valiant.

The only problem I have with this analogy is this one: People still read comics in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Even though those companies may have been at low points in those decades, there was still a fairly vibrant (at least compared to now) industry at large to return to. In an ever-shrinking industry, Valiant doesn't have that luxury.

[magnusr]

Anyway, at some point I’ll share more of my collection in the near future, when I can.

Looking forward to it.

/Magnus

[lobo]

The 29th year of Valiant brought us a legit Hollywood movie of a Valiant character. That has to count for something even if a pandemic blew the wind out of it's sails.

[greg]

The 29th year of Valiant brought us a legit Hollywood movie of a Valiant character. That has to count for something even if a pandemic blew the wind out of it's sails.

Christopher Reeve arrived for D.C. in year 40.

[depluto]

Here's an idea. Why don't you add terms like "SJW" and "forced diversity" to your profanity filter

Because they're not profanity - they're a clear indication to anyone reading that someone has checked out of reality and built a shadow-boxing echo-chamber wall around themselves that would make Pink Floyd jealous. They might as well be the words "poo-poo head" and "planned naptime" the way the discussions mimic a kindergarten playground.

...or give them some fun effect like you did with Dynamite. Is "Dynamite sucks" not a thing anymore?

Dynamite sucked for 15 years on this board, and they still suck in the real world, but they also blow. They're the Shop-Vac of publishers.

I don't know why you still autocorrect every time I write about LONGDUCKDONG. It's not like LONGDUCKDONG is even a terrible thing, and there are many web sites related to LONGDUCKDONG and the people who make them.

[buff-beardo]

I love the VALIANT characters and always will at their core. I’ve also accepted that just because a comic has valiant characters doesn’t make it VALIANT. I’m hoping another company eventually gets a stab at making them great again for a 3rd time. In the mean time, I’ve started a reread of VH1. Steel Nation was fun to read again. Next up, Invasion!!!!

[Blood of Heroes]

The 29th year of Valiant brought us a legit Hollywood movie of a Valiant character. That has to count for something even if a pandemic blew the wind out of it's sails.

Christopher Reeve arrived for D.C. in year 40.

Back then he was Christopher walkin'!

[The Chosen 1]

The 29th year of Valiant brought us a legit Hollywood movie of a Valiant character. That has to count for something even if a pandemic blew the wind out of it's sails.

Christopher Reeve arrived for D.C. in year 40.

Back then he was Christopher walkin'!

I feel disappointed in myself that i found this funny.

[Blood of Heroes]

The 29th year of Valiant brought us a legit Hollywood movie of a Valiant character. That has to count for something even if a pandemic blew the wind out of it's sails.

Christopher Reeve arrived for D.C. in year 40.

Back then he was Christopher walkin'!

I feel disappointed in myself that i found this funny.