Shadowman to end with #11

[TheeBaldMoose]

Disgusted, but I totally get why he would walk away. Take Incursion from him and let someone else write it. Yea I'd quit too. don't know if he actually quit, but he he hasn't posted anything Valiant based in a while on Twitter



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[kinggirlfriend]

Boo! Hiss! They made such a big deal about Shadowman coming back with this series. Over a year buildup, much like HW2, then 11 issues and done?! I ended up really liking this series. I hope they stick the landing and it doesn't get jacked up like Bloodshot: Salvation.

So we are down to just one flagship title. Not counting Bloodshot Rising Spirit.

No Renegades. No Ninjak. No A&A.

Divinity, Rai, Savage and War Mother are all MIA.

Life and Times of Toyo Harada cannot get here quick enough.

[nonplayer]

How long till they sell it all to Disney.
This is disgraceful.

[raiden]

I suspected as much when the solicits said "the final showdown". Was hopeful that Incursion would pick up the story like a Bloodshot USA type of interlude. But that has turned out to be an EW story (although linked to the Deadside).

February 2019 has 5 books (3 ongoing and 2 minis):
Bloodshot RS
XO
Livewire
Incursion
Forgotten Queen

March adds LADOTH, so there will be at least 6 books that month. Maybe more? Is Nu-Valiant starting to grow again?

It kind of seems like they might be building something. But it also seems like everything is getting a bit of a reset. All of these books seem to establish a new status quo for the characters. Except XO. Although, if XO was on Earth he would probably be cancelled too.

[Aram]

I was already gone and missed it the first time around but this here...

Looks exactly like acclaim 2.0.

I just hope there are some diamonds in The rough coming like quantum and woody last time.

[nycjadie]

X-O is ongoing.

Livewire is “ongoing”, but that means maxi-series these days (borrowing that 80s term).

Forgotten Queen is a mini.

Incursion is 4 issues.

Not sure what Rising Spirit is, but guessing less than 10 given that it’s an origin issue.

In March we get Toyo (finally some new Harbinger).

I like the focus of the number of series, and that they aren’t doing 1:50 variants. Seems to be a transitional time with creative teams. Hoping they can get some continuity going soon.

My guess is that Long term, Incursion will be forgotten like some of the other event books. Rising Spirit might turn out to be a solid BS series. Forgotten Queen could be a new Savage mini, with a more Tank Girl approach (I like War Mother, but this character seems to appeal to a broader young audience, along the lines of Harley). Livewire is the one though, that could be it. The game changer. The new cult figure. The part of Unity who hasn’t had a flagship (outside of the shared Secret Weapons). She is a strong female lead, without the tropes, with a complicated struggle, and the character traits that could lead to amazing stories.

[WrathOfArmstrong]

this... is... irritating.

[Sheikhaljabal]

What a pity. Diggle's run must be his best thing ever and it will not even amount to 12 issues. I thought incursion would somehow be like BS USA or Rapture (in the sense these were directly spun off from ongoing titles). Let's hope Shadowman comes back either in another ongoing or in a sorely missed team book.

[depluto]

Damn. Bummer. I was starting to really like this book.

[myron]

Damn. Bummer. I was starting to really like this book.

The more things change, the more they stay the same...seems like we are right back where we were 20 years ago, give or take a few years

[jakgrimm]

Even the description sounds boring. 'everything Jack holds dear' Yawn.

[kinggirlfriend]

Andy Diggle says it's because of low sales and that the original plan was to produce at least 2 years worth of stories:
https://twitter.com/andydiggle/status/1 ... 46624?s=12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Also confirmed that INCURSION was supposed to be a Shadowman story.

[nycjadie]

Shadow man 7 sold 6195,, according to Comichron. Don’t know how they do it with numbers that low.

[WrathOfArmstrong]

I prefer it to be because of sales, rather than the new regime wanting a different take, or to oust all who were chosen before.

I'm happy that Diggle is still open to work with Valiant in the future. Shadowman has shown he can't get the numbers they are looking for, so the switch in Incursion does make sense as well.

[IMJ]

Shadow man 7 sold 6195,, according to Comichron. Don’t know how they do it with numbers that low.

Could you throw a link to this here? I went to the site and searched for Shadowman using google engine there, but I got a bunch of junk hits back.

[Ryan]

September numbers from Comichron (shipped to stores, not actual sales)
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 18-09.html

210 X-O Manowar 19 8,257
226 Harbinger Wars 2 Aftermath 1 6,974
233 Shadowman 7 6,195
242 Ninja-K 11 5,923
250 Faith Dreamside 1 5,752
256 Britannia Lost Eagles of Rome 3 5,421
283 Quantum & Woody 10 4,368

If 6,000 isn't enough to keep Shadowman afloat, what about all the other titles? What about Faith with a new number 1 that debuts at less than 6,000?

Shadowman is my favorite Valiant (non-GK3) character, and I didn't even make it past issue 1. Neither of the main characters were likable, Jack and his powers were never explained or demonstrated, too much unexplained magic, no hook whatsoever.

In the 'it could be worse' category, here's where Lion Forge Catalyst Prime flagship character Noble finds himself on the same Comichron chart:

494 Catalyst Prime Noble 11 Lion Forge 582

582 How can any professionally produced comic book exist with those numbers?

[nycjadie]

Savage Dragon is bananas. I mean, at that point it's totally a labor of love, I think.

I appreciate creators, no matter what sandbox they play in. Print run says nothing of quality. BPRD/Hellboy titles are even lower print than Valiant (the other main currently published universe I collect).

[nycjadie]

For comparison, the V1 titles would get cancelled when they hit the mid-20Ks. I can't think of many VEI titles that have had that at issue 2. Maybe Book of Death? Bloodshot Reborn?

[Ryan]

Savage Dragon is bananas. I mean, at that point it's totally a labor of love, I think.

I appreciate creators, no matter what sandbox they play in. Print run says nothing of quality. BPRD/Hellboy titles are even lower print than Valiant (the other main currently published universe I collect).

Certainly quality is subjective, and overall comic readership seems to be going down. At some point comics turned away from being a 'mass' media (for the masses) to capitalize on super-fans at the expense of accessibility. It's a tough way to make hay I think BRPD/Hellboy universe is one of those niches that have quite a few fans who don't go to comic shops at all and just get the tpbs/hardcovers on Amazon or wherever. That's my impression anyway, could be wrong.

[Funcha]

I feel like Valiant needs some big epic event to bring in everyone and respark interest in all the classic characters. Harbinger Wars II sure as hell wasn't it. Incursion sounds like the next "you're not missing much" title. I'll continue buying since Valiant isn't exactly breaking the bank for me, but my enthusiasm for this universe is rapidly waning.

The new management really needs to take a long hard look at what has worked in the past. Interconnected, tightly knit stories. REAL CONSEQUENCES for the characters and the overall world. And good God people, can't we get some decent villains?! Who remembers anyone outside of Master Darque or Toyo Harada?

At this point it just seems like everything is winding down. Sales are slowly dwindling. Valiant is barely a blip on mainstream comic fan's radars. And regardless of how good Bloodshot and Harbinger may be on the big screen, Valiant's management would be very unwise to count on that to save the comics division.

[kinggirlfriend]

I feel like Valiant needs some big epic event to bring in everyone and respark interest in all the classic characters. Harbinger Wars II sure as hell wasn't it. Incursion sounds like the next "you're not missing much" title. I'll continue buying since Valiant isn't exactly breaking the bank for me, but my enthusiasm for this universe is rapidly waning.

The new management really needs to take a long hard look at what has worked in the past. Interconnected, tightly knit stories. REAL CONSEQUENCES for the characters and the overall world. And good God people, can't we get some decent villains?! Who remembers anyone outside of Master Darque or Toyo Harada?

At this point it just seems like everything is winding down. Sales are slowly dwindling. Valiant is barely a blip on mainstream comic fan's radars. And regardless of how good Bloodshot and Harbinger may be on the big screen, Valiant's management would be very unwise to count on that to save the comics division.

Part of me feels bad for all the people currently at Valiant. They are grasping at straws and seem in over their head. I do not think they understand what it takes to make a good comic book or a good comic book universe. Shadowman ends and in it's place we get... War-Monger? The hell?!

I'm sure they are all good people, and love comics and etc. etc., but none of that really matters if they can't create something we can get excited for, something that delivers. Oh well.

[Ryan]

I feel like Valiant needs some big epic event to bring in everyone and respark interest in all the classic characters. Harbinger Wars II sure as hell wasn't it. Incursion sounds like the next "you're not missing much" title. I'll continue buying since Valiant isn't exactly breaking the bank for me, but my enthusiasm for this universe is rapidly waning.

The new management really needs to take a long hard look at what has worked in the past. Interconnected, tightly knit stories. REAL CONSEQUENCES for the characters and the overall world. And good God people, can't we get some decent villains?! Who remembers anyone outside of Master Darque or Toyo Harada?

At this point it just seems like everything is winding down. Sales are slowly dwindling. Valiant is barely a blip on mainstream comic fan's radars. And regardless of how good Bloodshot and Harbinger may be on the big screen, Valiant's management would be very unwise to count on that to save the comics division.

I think it's weird that they seem to be focusing on side characters instead of the flagships. I find it hard to believe that the universe will be successful with characters no one has heard of. They should have a strong core of tight-knit realistic action-adventure stories with X-O, Bloodshot, Harbinger, Rai (introduce a current year Rai or bring him from the future), Shadowman, Eternal Warrior/A&A, Ninjak. Spin other characters out of those books based on popularity and reader interest. Maybe they will argue that's what VEI did and it didn't work (enough?). IDK, but that's what Valiant is.

[Ryan]

Part of me feels bad for all the people currently at Valiant. They are grasping at straws and seem in over their head. I do not think they understand what it takes to make a good comic book or a good comic book universe. Shadowman ends and in it's place we get... War-Monger? The hell?!

I'm sure they are all good people, and love comics and etc. etc., but none of that really matters if they can't create something we can get excited for, something that delivers. Oh well.

Any critique I have is always based on the product itself from a long-time fan's perspective, definitely not intended to be taken personally by any creator. I would think it's valuable feedback to get a variety of honest opinions from potential customers in any business, especially one as small as comics. It is a tough industry to make it in, but it's also a dream job for anyone in the real world.

[SuperMage]

Comics are disposable media, which are becoming increasingly difficult to justify the price for to the average comic to the average consumer. There are a lot of factors at play for the declining readership. Economic inflation, an aging audience, and print media generally becoming unattractive in a digital age. Keep in mind that during the 1990s, print was the default medium for most media outside of television. Now you just click the news tab on google to see what's happening in the world. Want recipes for dinner? Why buy a cookbook when you can google the recipe you want? Want to read a fun little comic? Why buy the Sunday paper when you can go to Instagram and type in #funnycomics? Interested in reading a long form comic book? Google "insert genre" webcomics. It's a digital world, and print is the alternative from the past. The very fact that we're sitting here typing these response on our computers/smartphones instead of writing a letter to mail in to our local magazine for the ltter columns is a testament to that. People are mourning the death of old media, and expressing their lament through new media.

I doubt the sales alone contributed to the end of Diggle's Shadowman. If sales were an issue they could have just kept to the original plan of using Incursion as a Shadowman arc, and using that push through to year two of Shadowman. If they really wanted to keep Diggle on Shadowman they would have made it work like the previous editorial did with Jeff Lemire on Bloodshot Reborn. They forced Diggle to change his planned Shadowman arc, and gave it over to a different writer. Clearly they want someone else on Shadowman. I'm assuming it's just part of their goal of cleaning house. Kindt is probably next on the chopping block. I've noticed they haven't announced any new books written by Matt, which is strange because he seemed to always have a new book every year.

[IMJ]

September numbers from Comichron (shipped to stores, not actual sales)
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicss ... 18-09.html

210 X-O Manowar 19 8,257
226 Harbinger Wars 2 Aftermath 1 6,974
233 Shadowman 7 6,195
242 Ninja-K 11 5,923
250 Faith Dreamside 1 5,752
256 Britannia Lost Eagles of Rome 3 5,421
283 Quantum & Woody 10 4,368

If 6,000 isn't enough to keep Shadowman afloat, what about all the other titles? What about Faith with a new number 1 that debuts at less than 6,000?

Shadowman is my favorite Valiant (non-GK3) character, and I didn't even make it past issue 1. Neither of the main characters were likable, Jack and his powers were never explained or demonstrated, too much unexplained magic, no hook whatsoever.

In the 'it could be worse' category, here's where Lion Forge Catalyst Prime flagship character Noble finds himself on the same Comichron chart:

494 Catalyst Prime Noble 11 Lion Forge 582

582 How can any professionally produced comic book exist with those numbers?

Savage Dragon #238 - 3,668 copies. Which means there might be 3,800 or real copies of that book produced. I know that the readership is largely being maintained by Gen Xer's at this point, but considering that we are mostly in our 40's now, there are still readership years left and I'd say that those Dragon books still have the potential to just explode on the market - especially if Larson ever gets actually busy regarding the IP again and we get an 80's style animated series, an anime or, -gulp- a Dragon movie.

And this current Shadowman run we could be looking at such small printings that hoarding Diggle's run might not entirely be a bad idea, which I think will be a locked in great idea if Bloodshot does well. Given Valiant's stable, Shadowman is easily in the top 4 for Valiant Universe movie making.

And someone please correct me here if I am missing something....
From the same ComicChron link as was presented in the Shadowman thread.

According to the list, "Tony Stark... Iron Man" squeaked into the top 500 at #450, but that list claims 983 copies.

450 469 Tony Stark Iron Man 3 $3.99 08/15/18 Marvel 983

I don't even know what to say about that. Am I missing something? If that shipped number is correct, then lets account for other channels of distribution as outlined in the ComicChron FAQ and let's say that there were actually 2,000 copies total print (which I still can't wrap my head around). So that makes the Tony Stark Iron Man #3 variants maybe as limited as some of the Alex Ross virgin variants? What am I missing here?!?