Complaining About Quantum & Woody

[TheFerg714]

So, I've slowly been making my way through everything that VEI has published, in a kind of random order. I just got to Q&W, and it is absolutely killing me.

I remember really enjoying it at first, but after thinking back, excluding the first arc, and bits of the second, I truly forgot almost every single thing about it. At the time, I suppose I thought it was fun, but man, it is just such a drag reading it now. It takes me 10+ minutes to get through an issue (which is honestly ridiculous for a series that I've read multiple times before), I chuckle like once or twice, and I almost fall asleep throughout the whole thing. There's just SO MANY WORDS! It feels like James Asmus has no understanding of how to pace comic-book dialogue. It's just words on top of words on top of words, with nothing really interesting going on, and maybe a dumb joke thrown in every once in a while.

Honestly, I don't really know why I made this thread, but the series has just been bothering me a lot, and I needed a place to vent. I'd really like to get through it so I can move onto more entertaining stuff, but I'm finding it very difficult to work up the motivation to continue reading.

In conclusion, I suppose I'm just wondering if anyone else feels the same way. I know Q&W is very love-it-or-hate-it amongst Valiant fans, but I guess I never really paid attention to what any of the naysayers were going on about.

[greg]

Remember, Quantum & Woody were never Valiant... they were always Acclaim. I still don't completely believe Q&W are in the Valiant Universe.
It's a good rhyming motto to keep handy... Blame Acclaim.

[Nairbe]

Remember, Quantum & Woody were never Valiant... they were always Acclaim. I still don't completely believe Q&W are in the Valiant Universe.

They did appear in The Valiant.

[kinggirlfriend]

And DELINQUENTS!


(and UNITY #25)

[nonplayer]

I enjoyed the first issue but after that it was boring to me.
I've only ever read a few issues and feel I've not missed anything.

[ShadowTuga]

I was weirded by the announcement in 2013 that these dudes were returning. Before Ninjak. Before Eternal Warrior. Before Rai.

I trusted the companie's motto of if it's a story that's really good, do it, no matter the characters. Or something like that. Meaning Asmus pitched a story that the powers in charge liked enough to turn it into the 6th VEI ongoing to start.

I loved the first arc, HATED the second with the potato s*it artwork and just forced humor, got to into it again for Goat #0 (best issue of that run, imho) and then my interest just faded. I have copies of every book with them until the most recent series, but I have never read anything of it beyond #12 of the first series and the first issue of Delinquents (which I hated).

[TheFerg714]

And DELINQUENTS!


(and UNITY #25)

Oh trust me, those were tacitly included. I don't mind Delinquents, due to the inclusion of A&A, but it's still got a lot of the same issues.

[geocarr]

I think Q&W were the best thing from the Acclaim era but I don't think VEI has been able to replicate the humor and other components that made the original Q&W so good.

[nonplayer]

I think Q&W were the best thing from the Acclaim era but I don't think VEI has been able to replicate the humor and other components that made the original Q&W so good.

Have you read the old still latly does it hold up to the test of time and your grown up maturity?
One thing I find with stuff I liked when I was younger is I'm different now and dont find it as good. Also the younger audience of now is alot different from our generation.

[geocarr]

I think Q&W were the best thing from the Acclaim era but I don't think VEI has been able to replicate the humor and other components that made the original Q&W so good.

Have you read the old still latly does it hold up to the test of time and your grown up maturity?
One thing I find with stuff I liked when I was younger is I'm different now and dont find it as good. Also the younger audience of now is alot different from our generation.

It holds up just fine for me. Most of Christopher Priest's writing holds up for me.

[otomo]

Yeah I haven't found the humor in almost all of it. A couple issues were okay, but "OMG You're white are being you racist?!" jokes over and over get old. The goat was an amusing thing for a sec, but nothing really gripping or compelling about the characters whatsoever.

This last incarnation I could hardly get through it the scripts are so jumbled and all over the map, it's like he can't keep track of a storyline. Had similar trouble with Valiant High this week. I think Kibblesmith just isn't for me, and pair that with Q&W and it's even worse.

[Dallow Spicer1]

The current Q&W is the only one I’ve enjoyed. Kibblesmith gets the comedy about right and I’m open minded to see how Rahul handles things. With the last run (Asmus) I was all for Q&W being a separate imprint outside of the Valiant U (along with anything written by FVL )

[Joshua]

I thought the latest issue was great.

[TheFerg714]

The current Q&W is the only one I’ve enjoyed. Kibblesmith gets the comedy about right and I’m open minded to see how Rahul handles things. With the last run (Asmus) I was all for Q&W being a separate imprint outside of the Valiant U

I thought the latest issue was great.

I should have been more specific. I was complaining specifically about Asmus's run. I don't have an opinion fully developed on Kibblesmith's run yet, seeing as I've only read through each issue once, but I enjoyed his run well enough. Issue 3 and 6 were highlights for me, and I can't wait to see what Rahal does with the next issue.

(along with anything written by FVL )

Seriously? You want the guy that's developed more of the Valiant mythos than any other writer to have his own separate universe? What don't you like about him?

[Tony_H]

I gotta stick up for Q&W! It's been a long time since I read Asmus's run, but I loved a lot of his first year's issues. His stuff was so baldly absurd, satiric and (more than) occasionally stupid, it made a nice alternative to the other monthlies I was reading at the time. The Montana arc really cracked me up, especially with the crude art, which didn't look like anything else on my shelves. The Delinquents remains one of my favorite comic series, period: the fact that a comic book creative crew decided to use a mini to ridicule Monsanto, and the editorial and production staffs green-lighted that parody, deserved nothing but from me (and a lot of other people).

I agree with you though, Ferg, that Asmus's Q&W storyline didn't/doesn't square with the rest of the Valiant plots, and I don't think it was supposed to; The Delinquents tangent, with Van Lente's aid and abetment, was as close as it could get.

[Dallow Spicer1]

The current Q&W is the only one I’ve enjoyed. Kibblesmith gets the comedy about right and I’m open minded to see how Rahul handles things. With the last run (Asmus) I was all for Q&W being a separate imprint outside of the Valiant U

I thought the latest issue was great.

I should have been more specific. I was complaining specifically about Asmus's run. I don't have an opinion fully developed on Kibblesmith's run yet, seeing as I've only read through each issue once, but I enjoyed his run well enough. Issue 3 and 6 were highlights for me, and I can't wait to see what Rahal does with the next issue.

(along with anything written by FVL )

Seriously? You want the guy that's developed more of the Valiant mythos than any other writer to have his own separate universe? What don't you like about him?

I think that he has good concepts but I think he should hand those concepts over to another writer to execute as FVL book’s are just as goofy as Asmus’ Q&W. His run on A&A was a good example of this, interesting concepts mixed with ridiculous throwaway gags which don’t consider the characters’ long term evolution. Off the top of my head, things like Armstrong getting arrows in both eyes and reacting like it was a minor inconvenience! So, now because he wanted to write a little gag the character of Armstrong essentially can’t be hurt!? How does that make an interesting character

Another example I vaguely remember was him having Armstrong throwing a tree at an airplane!! So now he’s basically the Hulk too! To me it’s just lazy writing, establishing characters as over powered and for what, some unfunny, one panel gag? There’s nothing interesting about Armstrong as a character anymore, he can’t be hurt, then the are no consequences to any physical danger and he’s got the strength of the Hulk!

War mother was another example of interesting concept but then the personality of the gun is just so tedious. Give the idea to another writer and it could have been great.

From memory I think Legends of the Geomancer was the only book I enjoyed without any goofy shenanigans.

[kevinbastos]

I think Q&W were the best thing from the Acclaim era but I don't think VEI has been able to replicate the humor and other components that made the original Q&W so good.

Have you read the old still latly does it hold up to the test of time and your grown up maturity?
One thing I find with stuff I liked when I was younger is I'm different now and dont find it as good. Also the younger audience of now is alot different from our generation.

It holds up just fine for me. Most of Christopher Priest's writing holds up for me.

Agree with all of this. And offer one exception.

The VEI Priest 5 issue run. Missed it for me. I have read much of the critique - including his book, Klang!

But the Acclaim Q & W original 17 issues - and to some degree the last ones 17-21 and the 32... Pretty good.

Still wish that I could see those gap issues that are lost in the ownership mess...

But Q & W and Priest's Black Panther are two comics that I could read through the run, and then pick up back at the beginning and go through again. Outside of the 94-150-ish X-Men, I can't think of any other run of comics I like as much as these Priest runs.

[TheeBaldMoose]

The current Q&W is the only one I’ve enjoyed. Kibblesmith gets the comedy about right and I’m open minded to see how Rahul handles things. With the last run (Asmus) I was all for Q&W being a separate imprint outside of the Valiant U

I thought the latest issue was great.

I should have been more specific. I was complaining specifically about Asmus's run. I don't have an opinion fully developed on Kibblesmith's run yet, seeing as I've only read through each issue once, but I enjoyed his run well enough. Issue 3 and 6 were highlights for me, and I can't wait to see what Rahal does with the next issue.

(along with anything written by FVL )

Seriously? You want the guy that's developed more of the Valiant mythos than any other writer to have his own separate universe? What don't you like about him?

I think that he has good concepts but I think he should hand those concepts over to another writer to execute as FVL book’s are just as goofy as Asmus’ Q&W. His run on A&A was a good example of this, interesting concepts mixed with ridiculous throwaway gags which don’t consider the characters’ long term evolution. Off the top of my head, things like Armstrong getting arrows in both eyes and reacting like it was a minor inconvenience! So, now because he wanted to write a little gag the character of Armstrong essentially can’t be hurt!? How does that make an interesting character

Another example I vaguely remember was him having Armstrong throwing a tree at an airplane!! So now he’s basically the Hulk too! To me it’s just lazy writing, establishing characters as over powered and for what, some unfunny, one panel gag? There’s nothing interesting about Armstrong as a character anymore, he can’t be hurt, then the are no consequences to any physical danger and he’s got the strength of the Hulk!

War mother was another example of interesting concept but then the personality of the gun is just so tedious. Give the idea to another writer and it could have been great.

From memory I think Legends of the Geomancer was the only book I enjoyed without any goofy shenanigans.

+1

[greg]

Remember, Quantum & Woody were never Valiant... they were always Acclaim. I still don't completely believe Q&W are in the Valiant Universe.

They did appear in The Valiant.

True, but Macy Gray appeared in the first Spider-man movie and I don't have to believe she knows him.

[TheFerg714]

So I just reread Kibblesmith's arc and I liked it A LOT more! The pacing is significantly better and it doesn't feel like I'm spending an hour reading one text-bubble and I just laughed more often! Plus, the characters actually go through things besides, "omg I hate my brother, no I actually love him."

I think issue 3 might just be the best Q&W! issue we've gotten so far (haven't read the Acclaim stuff).

[kjjohanson]

The basic problem with VEI Q&W is that it's more of a gag and/or crude humor. While there was definite crudeness in the Acclaim run, that's not where the humor came from. Humor there was about the drastic personality differences. Some of the best comedies are done that way. Make it a serious enough situation, but have people that are polar opposites have to work together to fix it. I really wish they'd give FVL a shot at it (assuming he'd want to write it.)

[TheFerg714]

The basic problem with VEI Q&W is that it's more of a gag and/or crude humor. While there was definite crudeness in the Acclaim run, that's not where the humor came from. Humor there was about the drastic personality differences. Some of the best comedies are done that way. Make it a serious enough situation, but have people that are polar opposites have to work together to fix it. I really wish they'd give FVL a shot at it (assuming he'd want to write it.)

I'd love that, especially if he immersed them into the Valiant U. First arc: Q&W Join Unity!

[SwiftMann]

I was a huge Priest Q&W fan. I've re-read those a couple times now. Love them.

I've loathed every VEI issue of Q&W up until Kibblesmith. He is the first VEI writer to even come close to the various levels of humor, social commentary, and storytelling style of the original.

[Shadowman99]

I seem to recall enjoying the original Q+W VEI run. Like Tony H said, I think that at that time all of VEI's other lines were pretty heavy reading, and Q+W brought some much-needed levity to the table by providing some laughs via absurd plots, characters and jokes. I think the capacity to enjoy Q+W depends on the reader's sense of humour really, and the degree to which it matches the absurdist material that gets put down on the page.

I think Asmus was pretty keen on the 'race' theme for stimulating his ideas for plotlines and jokes, but the new series seems to have moved in a different direction and is focusing much more on the interpersonal relationships between the characters and is using those to provide motivation for the characters' respective actions, and is doing it well I feel. I'm enjoying the new series anyway. It seems to have picked up the tone of the original series nicely without retreading old ground, and the characterisation and interactions are really good, so I'd happily recommend #1-#6 to anyone

[Bl00dsh0t]

Contrary to popular board opinion I'm really into this iteration of the worlds worst superhero team and thought the recent subtle tie-in into HWII was very well done and had loads of character development.

I also thought the mini was pretty decent as was the Valiant-Sized issue from a couple years back.

I hope we continue to see this team evolve with the broader Valiant U for a time to come