CGC 9.9

[aj583]

Does anyone have any theories what would make a book a CGC 9.9 vs. a 9.8? My curiosity is peaked as I begin CGCing.


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[MistressofMayhem]

What makes it a 10? The difference between a 9.8 and 10 has to be minimal but enough that they won't grade many at 10. I have one CGC 9.9 out of all of my books and that was just recent. I have received 9.6's with no graders notes as to defect. I swear its the day of the week and the grader. I know they have a scale as to what to work off of or look for and what it takes off for points.

[greg]

You need:
1. Chromium
2. Luck
3. No fingerprints
4. Something special

If you have all 4, there's a very slight chance for CGC 9.9. The odds drop dramatically for each item that doesn't apply to your book.

Without exact rules about how grading works, it seems like books generally start at a theoretical 9.8 and are moved down due to variations in the production and distribution/handling processes... a production process that isn't meant to make perfect books, and then distribution which could pass through several machines and hands. A CGC 9.8 seems to mean "exactly what you should expect from an average copy of this book with no defects". It's those lucky fluke/outlier/extraordinary books in the production process where corners are even sharper and the pages crisper and the colors deeper which could be 9.9+ but then they have to somehow survive their whole existence without any hint of handling.

The chromium covers and some cardstock squarebound books have a finished product of higher average quality that survives distribution more often... so the majority of CGC 9.9+ are those cover styles... and it helps if the total handling time between printing and slabbing is days or weeks instead of years or decades.

But I think the bottom line is that the condition of a book starts at 9.8 and goes down for flaws. They don't start at 10. They are 9.8 without flaws, and need extraordinary qualities to go higher. By definition, extraordinary can't mean frequently-found. The extra 0.1 or 0.2 above 9.8 should represent something(s) extraordinary.

[Aport]

In general, 9.8s are allowed minor production flaws. In other words there is something wrong with the book, but that defect was caused by the production machines, not caused by a human. The grading company is not faulting the submitter for the way the comic came off the press.
Still really bad miswraps and bad staple placement may be considered major, and therefore drop the grade below 9.8.

In contrast, a 9.9 and 10.0 have no production flaws... it’s like they just appeared with no markings from the production machines that produced them. The cuts on the spine corners have to be 100% perfect, with no spine tick at all. For a 9.9 or more the press machines had to be perfect.
But I dont know the difference between a 9.9 and 10.0.

[aj583]

Interesting. I like your 4 points Greg. I read all my old comics (very carefully of course), so I’m out of the running with fingerprints! I wonder if they use a black light?

Greg, did you know that your CGC 10 Rai 0 was such a grail? You must have not touched it!


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[greg]

Greg, did you know that your CGC 10 Rai 0 was such a grail? You must have not touched it!

I bought it already slabbed in 2003. When I bought it, there had only been about 50 copies of Rai #0 graded... so I didn't know it would be "the only one" for 15 years and 2,000 more Rai #0 slabs.

It's kind of crazy to think that $50,000 has been spent just on the slabbing costs for copies of Rai #0 and there's only one CGC 10 in the results.

[myron]

'em are some freaky statistics Professor!

[aj583]

Greg, did you know that your CGC 10 Rai 0 was such a grail? You must have not touched it!

I bought it already slabbed in 2003. When I bought it, there had only been about 50 copies of Rai #0 graded... so I didn't know it would be "the only one" for 15 years and 2,000 more Rai #0 slabs.

It's kind of crazy to think that $50,000 has been spent just on the slabbing costs for copies of Rai #0 and there's only one CGC 10 in the results.

A wise investment sir!


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[kjjohanson]

Greg, did you know that your CGC 10 Rai 0 was such a grail? You must have not touched it!

I bought it already slabbed in 2003. When I bought it, there had only been about 50 copies of Rai #0 graded... so I didn't know it would be "the only one" for 15 years and 2,000 more Rai #0 slabs.

It's kind of crazy to think that $50,000 has been spent just on the slabbing costs for copies of Rai #0 and there's only one CGC 10 in the results.

Do you mind sharing what you paid for it?

I have a total of 3 9.9s. Two of them are Valiant prestige books (Bloodshot Reborn 10 1:50, Secret Weapons Showcase Edition) and the third is a Mortal Kombat Hologram cover from the 90s. So not a standard production cover in the group. I have an X-Men comic (first Fantomex) that I submitted that I saw absolutely no issues with, not even the tinies production flaw, and it still came back a 9.8.

[greg]

Greg, did you know that your CGC 10 Rai 0 was such a grail? You must have not touched it!

I bought it already slabbed in 2003. When I bought it, there had only been about 50 copies of Rai #0 graded... so I didn't know it would be "the only one" for 15 years and 2,000 more Rai #0 slabs.

It's kind of crazy to think that $50,000 has been spent just on the slabbing costs for copies of Rai #0 and there's only one CGC 10 in the results.

Do you mind sharing what you paid for it?

It was $203.51 in January 2003, plus $10 shipping. I believe that my bid was something like $333.33 but the 2nd highest bidder must have been right around $200.

[IMJ]

Probably perfect, non-blunt corners at the spine. A 9.8 is commonly a 9.9 but with corner rounding.....
Or possibly brought to a 9.8 because of a -never spoken about- interior page defect amidst a world of cover graders.

[lobo]

But I dont know the difference between a 9.9 and 10.0.

10.0 is a perfect book, end of story. A 9.9 probably has one, almost imperceptible flaw, that you can't spot through the plastic slab so two of the same book, one graded 9.9 and one graded 10.0 sitting side by side in their slabs will likely appear exactly the same. Spotting that 9.9 'flaw' (in the slab) may drive you crazy. A step down to a 9.8 and the flaws seem to be much more identifiable. Bottom line is that these ultra high grade books are easier to judge when they were raw. I've never seen graders notes for a 10.0 or 9.9 or even a 9.8 to be honest.

[greg]

I've never seen graders notes for a 10.0 or 9.9 or even a 9.8 to be honest.

I don't think there are any. One of the reasons that modern books cost less to grade is that the amount of time spent grading them is less (on average). Since the "goal" of submitting moderns is to get a CGC 9.8 (or higher), there isn't a cost benefit of taking the time to note why a book met or exceeded the "goal".

[lobo]

I've never seen graders notes for a 10.0 or 9.9 or even a 9.8 to be honest.

I don't think there are any. One of the reasons that modern books cost less to grade is that the amount of time spent grading them is less (on average). Since the "goal" of submitting moderns is to get a CGC 9.8 (or higher), there isn't a cost benefit of taking the time to note why a book met or exceeded the "goal".

True, I would expect next to no information for grader's notes at these high grades. I guess we can assume that the notes get more detailed as the grade gets lower.

[TheeBaldMoose]

I've never seen graders notes for a 10.0 or 9.9 or even a 9.8 to be honest.

I don't think there are any. One of the reasons that modern books cost less to grade is that the amount of time spent grading them is less (on average). Since the "goal" of submitting moderns is to get a CGC 9.8 (or higher), there isn't a cost benefit of taking the time to note why a book met or exceeded the "goal".

True, I would expect next to no information for grader's notes at these high grades. I guess we can assume that the notes get more detailed as the grade gets lower.

Maybe this is an abnormality, but a friend of mine (Speedy from here) and I have gotten grades back varying from 9.0 to 9.6, and have gotten zero graders notes. They were submitted at ECCC, regular press/slab, nothing special. Zero graders notes... It had been kind of bugging me, so I called and the person I talked to said that they were not required to leave any notes for the grades they gave. This kind of goes against their advertising for the higher tiers of their slabbing process. This is all recent, just wondering if anyone has come across this in the last few months.

[greg]

I have seen it mentioned that graders' notes are primarily for "unseen" factors, such as a tear on page 4 or a stain on the inside back cover. While it is annoying to have a grade like 9.0 and have no notes about why it got a 9.0, it actually may be telling that all the damage is readily visible from the outside and there are no surprises inside.

[lobo]

Maybe this is an abnormality, but a friend of mine (Speedy from here) and I have gotten grades back varying from 9.0 to 9.6, and have gotten zero graders notes. They were submitted at ECCC, regular press/slab, nothing special. Zero graders notes... It had been kind of bugging me, so I called and the person I talked to said that they were not required to leave any notes for the grades they gave. This kind of goes against their advertising for the higher tiers of their slabbing process. This is all recent, just wondering if anyone has come across this in the last few months.

Is this for more modern or lower cost books? I would think (or hope) that big dollar keys like an AF 15 or FF1 would have substantial grader's notes as a justification to one grade point of another as a grade swing in either direction can impact the value by many $1000s.

[TheeBaldMoose]

Maybe this is an abnormality, but a friend of mine (Speedy from here) and I have gotten grades back varying from 9.0 to 9.6, and have gotten zero graders notes. They were submitted at ECCC, regular press/slab, nothing special. Zero graders notes... It had been kind of bugging me, so I called and the person I talked to said that they were not required to leave any notes for the grades they gave. This kind of goes against their advertising for the higher tiers of their slabbing process. This is all recent, just wondering if anyone has come across this in the last few months.

Is this for more modern or lower cost books? I would think (or hope) that big dollar keys like an AF 15 or FF1 would have substantial grader's notes as a justification to one grade point of another as a grade swing in either direction can impact the value by many $1000s.

Eh, I guess Valiant based, they are higher cost. Ninja-K metal, 9.6, Eternal Warrior #5 1:50, 9.0 (not mine), Shadowman 13 1:50(?), 9.6, Shadowman #5 1:50, 9.4. I would want my EW to have notes, especially when it comes in at a 9.0 with no visible tears/marks/bends

[aj583]

I've never seen graders notes for a 10.0 or 9.9 or even a 9.8 to be honest.

I don't think there are any. One of the reasons that modern books cost less to grade is that the amount of time spent grading them is less (on average). Since the "goal" of submitting moderns is to get a CGC 9.8 (or higher), there isn't a cost benefit of taking the time to note why a book met or exceeded the "goal".

True, I would expect next to no information for grader's notes at these high grades. I guess we can assume that the notes get more detailed as the grade gets lower.

Maybe this is an abnormality, but a friend of mine (Speedy from here) and I have gotten grades back varying from 9.0 to 9.6, and have gotten zero graders notes. They were submitted at ECCC, regular press/slab, nothing special. Zero graders notes... It had been kind of bugging me, so I called and the person I talked to said that they were not required to leave any notes for the grades they gave. This kind of goes against their advertising for the higher tiers of their slabbing process. This is all recent, just wondering if anyone has come across this in the last few months.

I had the same issue. Submitted a large number of modern valiant and marvel books and did not get notes for several 9.4s and 9.6s. I submitted them at the recent NY Con Called CGC to inquire...they said they are not required to give notes on all books.


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[TheeBaldMoose]

I've never seen graders notes for a 10.0 or 9.9 or even a 9.8 to be honest.

I don't think there are any. One of the reasons that modern books cost less to grade is that the amount of time spent grading them is less (on average). Since the "goal" of submitting moderns is to get a CGC 9.8 (or higher), there isn't a cost benefit of taking the time to note why a book met or exceeded the "goal".

True, I would expect next to no information for grader's notes at these high grades. I guess we can assume that the notes get more detailed as the grade gets lower.

Maybe this is an abnormality, but a friend of mine (Speedy from here) and I have gotten grades back varying from 9.0 to 9.6, and have gotten zero graders notes. They were submitted at ECCC, regular press/slab, nothing special. Zero graders notes... It had been kind of bugging me, so I called and the person I talked to said that they were not required to leave any notes for the grades they gave. This kind of goes against their advertising for the higher tiers of their slabbing process. This is all recent, just wondering if anyone has come across this in the last few months.

I had the same issue. Submitted a large number of modern valiant and marvel books and did not get notes for several 9.4s and 9.6s. I submitted them at the recent NY Con Called CGC to inquire...they said they are not required to give notes on all books.


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Seems like they are not giving any notes to anything, like false advertising. Grader Notes was the reason I paid more for the stupid membership! Well, my current year deal with CGC is just about up, CBCS gives grader notes for FREE!

Which brings me to another question. CGC charges $5 to see grader notes. IF they charge the $5, and there are no grader notes, do they still take the $5 to say there are no notes? Not liking this move one bit!

[greg]

Which brings me to another question. CGC charges $5 to see grader notes. IF they charge the $5, and there are no grader notes, do they still take the $5 to say there are no notes? Not liking this move one bit!

I think you can look up the serial number on the cgccomics.com website and see if grader notes are offered. Hopefully, if there are no notes, there's no way to buy them.

[IMJ]

I've got a couple CGC 9.9's if someone wants to look 'em up and see if there are any notes....

But again, if a perfect book means no flaws, then a one tenth grade drop means the tiniest of allowed discrepancy - a slightly blunted corner or maybe misaligned staple on a book without any dings or imperfections in the printing of a cover. By comparison, a 9.2 is an otherwise perfect book with perhaps two or three small impressions along or near the spine that don't break color. Two or three and nothing else wrong with it....