Top 200 Rarest Valiant books 2012-present? (2018 UPDATE)

[nycjadie]

2nd suprise.

33 X-O MANOWAR #49 (Gorham 1:50) -- (129 copies calculated)

Also, those A*A Lafuente books used to be super cheap.

[DirtbagSailor]

2nd suprise.

33 X-O MANOWAR #49 (Gorham 1:50) -- (129 copies calculated)

Also, those A*A Lafuente books used to be super cheap.

I’m still not sure about the A&A Lafuente books; they seem like the 4001 A.D. 1:100’s in that there are a LOT more available than should be.

Or the demand was simply low?

I will say that X-O #49 Gotham 1:50 is a visually stunning cover in addition to being rare.

[corey]

you now have a chance to repurchase the quantum and woody 1 2nd print on ebay for the low price......


$9999.99+18.90 shipping.....you think they coulda threw in free shipping

[battlepark]

30 IMMORTAL BROTHERS: THE TALE OF THE GREEN KNIGHT #1 (Dragunas 1:50) -- (126 copies calculated)


29 BLOODSHOT'S DAY OFF #1 (Ninjak vs the Valiant Universe 1:50) - (124 copies calculated)

23 SHADOWMAN/RAE SREMMURD #1 (Suayan 1:50) -- (118 copies calculated)

These are all 1:20s, not 1:50s. Valiant Database has these marked as 1:50s. Anyone seen Martin?

[Elveen]

Jesse do you have that blank X-O book that was given out at the sdcc poker game on the list?

Rare unicorns like that will have to be added bit by bit. Most books on the list are based on Diamond sales figures and Comichron (which we all know is wrong, but the best we have).

DMG books, French Canadian variants, and super rare variants that were given out at concerts and poker games can be added, but I need the print run info to do so.

I think they are selling those at shows now. It's not super rare any longer. I bought one for $25-30 pretty recently.

Which book did you buy?

[DirtbagSailor]

I was able to speak with a prominent recently departed Valiant employee about variants this weekend, and was able to learn a few things that matter in the collecting game.

A few points that came up.

1. The public numbers (Comichron/Diamond) are wrong. The print run information (at least as it relates to actual Valiant sales) is low.

2. Valiant, was quite innovative and usually operated "out of the box" in many ways insomuch as how they sold books. As the Diamond Comic Distributors report numbers a certain way, anything that is sold or distributed outside of that is not reported to or by Diamond, and therefore not reported to sites such as Comichron. Pre-orders, show inventory, show exclusives, stores exclusives are part of this. Since Valiant was far more concerned with putting out quality books as opposed to ensuring that Comichron.com was correct, the public info (and therefore my estimates) is wrong. Valiant did not care what was reported and knew that many numbers would not be reported, because it really was not that important in the grand scheme of things from their perspective.

3. Valiant (see also: Dinesh) did not care what numbers were reported, because it really was not that important in the grand scheme of things. So people look at market share, publisher rankings, and all that good jazz; however, it does not tell an accurate story about where Valiant truly places in the industry.

4. Dinesh watched the variant numbers like a hawk because he built all the cover ratios, picked all the art etc. He cared a LOT! Everything Valiant has produced had at least 300 copies in the market.

• Divinity #1 (LaRosa 1:40) had <350 copies (100% confirmed);
  
  Savage #1 (LaRosa 1:50) had 300 copies (100% confirmed).

5. Savage #1 (LaRosa 1:50) was stated to have had the lowest print run; however, it is "possible" that a few random issues may have lower print runs (though unlikely).

6. Valiant did not want to create high ratio variants (e.g. 1:40, 1:50, 1:100, etc.) that would not go into circulation. There is almost ZERO value in producing variants that retailers will not actually order and/or customers actually purchase. This is why Imperium (for example) had 1:20 variants as opposed to 1:50 variants. Valiant projected the expected numbers, and ensured the ratio variants were set accordingly.

7. High demand and low supply is only 50% of the equation in looking at this. The supply of a given variant needs to be high enough for a market to be created. Enough copies must change hands often enough that:

• a. Collectors must feel confident that they are/will be able to obtain a book based on an appropriate QTY in circulation. If they are not confident, then they will be likely to make no effort to attempt to obtain that same book or give up all together.
  
  b. There must be enough copies in circulation to allow for multiple sales on the secondary market to occur so that a price can be set (based on frequent data).

8. So what is the difference (for example) between the Unity #2, #3, or #5 (1:100 Variants) vs the 4001 A.D. #1, #2, #3, or #4 (1:100 Variants)? Why does it appear that there are FAR MORE 4001 A.D. (1:100) than there are Unity (1:100) variants?

• a. Well, 4001 A.D. had many more retailers qualify for the 1:100s than we saw for Unity. Because 4001 A.D. was a mini-series, the retailers who got behind it did so in a very big way.
  
  b. Because Unity was an ongoing series, retailers acted more conservative and made massive cuts to their orders of Unity #2, #3, and #5 until the books they ordered sold. Then they would re-order; however, there are no variants for re-orders. As a result, the number of 1:100s for Unity #2, #3, or #5 was low in comparison to 1:100s for 4001 A.D..
  
  c. 4001 A.D. had retailer exclusives across the series, which qualified them for 1:100s (e.g. 5 copies for a 500 print run retailer exclusive; 10 copies for 1,000 print run retailer exclusive). Unity #1 had retailer exclusives which qualified them for 1:100s and/or 1:200s; however, as it was an ongoing series, this did not apply to the subsequent issues beyond Unity #1 (Valiant's process later evolved between the release of Unity in November of 2013 and the release of 4001 A.D. in May of 2016).

So look at my list as being wrong, but still a rough ranking estimate (in relative terms) based on inaccurate Comichron source data. IF we had all of the information, we could make a very accurate list that narrows down the QTY of each variant. However, we do not have all the information.

What we DO know, is that some variants are simply easier to find than others. That some variants are complete ghosts. My intention is not to be "right" per se, but rather to provide a relative concept of what appears to be ball-park based on what we know. We know that the list is wrong; however, we also know that most of the books listed near the top are indeed impossible to find in the wild or online. So the direction is most certainly in the right direction.

[DirtbagSailor]

I will review and make further edits of course.

[Juki]

It makes sense to me that there would not ever be a print run of less than a few hundred of any Valiant Variant. It probably costs about the same to print 100 copies as it does to print 500 copies. So, why not make sure you have printed enough? Compared to comic print runs from VH1 comics, most VEI published numbers for "Non-Variant" regular cover editions are extremely low.

It has been brought up that overstock of unsold/unearned Valiant Variant comics may have been destroyed every few months (after making sure orders were filled and damaged comics were replaced). That is probably the only way that some Variants could have 150 or less copies. If more than a few people were in charge of "destroying" these extra comics we will probably never know which are truly the rarest. Destruction of some issues may have occurred while other times someone kept the copies. Someone involved with actually getting rid of the comics first hand would have to talk to know for sure.

All that being said, If there is a greater demand for VEI comics in the future they will all be extremely hard to find. Even regular cover editions could dry up.

[Juki]

Where would a book like Divinity ll #1 1:80 Incentive B&W Hairsine variant fall? I think it was supposed to be based on orders of Divinity ll #1 covers A-C.

[depluto]

Thanks for keeping up with all this, DBS.

[Joshua]

I hate these lists because for me, it makes me feel like I have to rush to buy certain books that there might only be one or two of on Ebay. My comic budget hates me.

[onearmedwampa3000]

There are a LOT of books/variants that have been released since 2012. It is HIGHLY likely that I missed a few while attempting to update Greg's Top 100 list from 2016. Please comment below and let me know.

A few of these are questionable, as is the nature of the beast; however, most others are likely very good estimates based on the data we have been provided and can (at a minimum) alert collectors to several books that they might otherwise have overlooked in the mix of things.

29 BLOODSHOT'S DAY OFF #1 (Ninjak vs the Valiant Universe 1:50) - (124 copies calculated)

What does the cover for that Bloodshot's day off look like? Never seen one.

[Juki]

I think the number of calculated issues are probably wrong for:
#150 SAVAGE #4 (Sauvage 1:20)--102 copies calculated

There are 102 copies calculated for the SAVAGE #4 1:50 LaRosa Variant

So, that would mean 255 copies calculated for the Sauvage 1:20 variant?

[DirtbagSailor]

I think the number of calculated issues are probably wrong for:
#150 SAVAGE #4 (Sauvage 1:20)--102 copies calculated

There are 102 copies calculated for the SAVAGE #4 1:50 LaRosa Variant

So, that would mean 255 copies calculated for the Sauvage 1:20 variant?

Approx.

It is a typo that I'll correct shortly.

[Juki]

I'm just trying to understand how these numbers from Comicron are being used for Variant cover estimates.

Question: When you look up the number of sales for a particular Valiant issue on Comicron.com the site gives you an estimated sales number for that particular issue. Does this one number represent the sales for all covers and Variants for that issue?

For example:

If I look up Divinity l issue #1 on Comichron it gives an "estimated units" of sale of 12,079 copies sold in Feb. 2015.

Does that mean 12,079 , in total, of all comics sold of all covers of issue #1 Divinity (Regular A, B, 1:10, 1:20, and 1:40)?

....or, does that mean 12,079 comics sold of just the main regular issue (I suppose in this case would be issue A... Or possibly A and B)

[greg]

If I look up Divinity l issue #1 on Comichron it gives an "estimated units" of sale of 12,079 copies sold in Feb. 2015.

Does that mean 12,079 , in total, of all comics sold of all covers of issue #1 Divinity (Regular A, B, 1:10, 1:20, and 1:40)?

....or, does that mean 12,079 comics sold of just the main regular issue (I suppose in this case would be issue A... Or possibly A and B)

The total is for all covers for that title and issue number with the same cover price. That should be all the covers for each of the Valiant books, but there were a few "Plus Editions" that were a dollar higher, so those counts were not included.

[DirtbagSailor]

I'm just trying to understand how these numbers from Comicron are being used for Variant cover estimates.

Question: When you look up the number of sales for a particular Valiant issue on Comicron.com the site gives you an estimated sales number for that particular issue. Does this one number represent the sales for all covers and Variants for that issue?

Unless I am mistaken, when a retailer orders 50 books, he/she will receive 50 books. However, the retailer incentive variants will be included in that 50. So they are not receiving 50 "Cover A" books + a pile of variants; they are receiving

42x "Cover A"
5x "1:10"
2x "1:20"
1x "1:50"
-------------
50 total copies

[onearmedwampa3000]

I'm just trying to understand how these numbers from Comicron are being used for Variant cover estimates.

Question: When you look up the number of sales for a particular Valiant issue on Comicron.com the site gives you an estimated sales number for that particular issue. Does this one number represent the sales for all covers and Variants for that issue?

Unless I am mistaken, when a retailer orders 50 books, he/she will receive 50 books. However, the retailer incentive variants will be included in that 50. So they are not receiving 50 "Cover A" books + a pile of variants; they are receiving

42x "Cover A"
5x "1:10"
2x "1:20"
1x "1:50"
-------------
50 total copies

When does cover B come into play with this scenario?

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[jeremycoe]

I'm just trying to understand how these numbers from Comicron are being used for Variant cover estimates.

Question: When you look up the number of sales for a particular Valiant issue on Comicron.com the site gives you an estimated sales number for that particular issue. Does this one number represent the sales for all covers and Variants for that issue?

Unless I am mistaken, when a retailer orders 50 books, he/she will receive 50 books. However, the retailer incentive variants will be included in that 50. So they are not receiving 50 "Cover A" books + a pile of variants; they are receiving

42x "Cover A"
5x "1:10"
2x "1:20"
1x "1:50"
-------------
50 total copies

When does cover B come into play with this scenario?

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

"Cover A" includes ALL non-incentive covers in this scenario.

[Juki]

I'm just trying to understand how these numbers from Comicron are being used for Variant cover estimates.

Question: When you look up the number of sales for a particular Valiant issue on Comicron.com the site gives you an estimated sales number for that particular issue. Does this one number represent the sales for all covers and Variants for that issue?

Unless I am mistaken, when a retailer orders 50 books, he/she will receive 50 books. However, the retailer incentive variants will be included in that 50. So they are not receiving 50 "Cover A" books + a pile of variants; they are receiving

42x "Cover A"
5x "1:10"
2x "1:20"
1x "1:50"
-------------
50 total copies

When does cover B come into play with this scenario?

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

"Cover A" includes ALL non-incentive covers in this scenario.

So, if I am understanding this correctly, in the case of Divinity l issue #1 the 12,079 issues sold would include all of these: A, B,1:10, 1:20, 1:40

If that is true, I am with Jeremycoe, where does that leave cover B in this case? Do they print relatively even numbers of all "non-incentive covers"? Or.... Possibly do they consider cover A the main cover and print less of B, (C, and D.. In other instances)?

[onearmedwampa3000]

I'm just trying to understand how these numbers from Comicron are being used for Variant cover estimates.

Question: When you look up the number of sales for a particular Valiant issue on Comicron.com the site gives you an estimated sales number for that particular issue. Does this one number represent the sales for all covers and Variants for that issue?

Unless I am mistaken, when a retailer orders 50 books, he/she will receive 50 books. However, the retailer incentive variants will be included in that 50. So they are not receiving 50 "Cover A" books + a pile of variants; they are receiving

42x "Cover A"
5x "1:10"
2x "1:20"
1x "1:50"
-------------
50 total copies

When does cover B come into play with this scenario?

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

"Cover A" includes ALL non-incentive covers in this scenario.

So, if I am understanding this correctly, in the case of Divinity l issue #1 the 12,079 issues sold would include all of these: A, B,1:10, 1:20, 1:40

If that is true, I am with Jeremycoe, where does that leave cover B in this case? Do they print relatively even numbers of all "non-incentive covers"? Or.... Possibly do they consider cover A the main cover and print less of B, (C, and D.. In other instances)?

I think the easy answer is whatever the print run is on Comichron divide that number by however many lettered covers there are for that book. In the case of Divinity with an A and B cover it's 12079 divided by 2. So there are roughly 6040 copies of A and 6040 copies of B. I think the incentives would fall outside of that 12079 number. So there are roughly 300 1:40, 600 1:20, and 1200 1:10. So maybe 14179 total copies of Divinity #1 first print. But I've been wrong before.

[greg]

I'm just trying to understand how these numbers from Comicron are being used for Variant cover estimates.

Question: When you look up the number of sales for a particular Valiant issue on Comicron.com the site gives you an estimated sales number for that particular issue. Does this one number represent the sales for all covers and Variants for that issue?

Unless I am mistaken, when a retailer orders 50 books, he/she will receive 50 books. However, the retailer incentive variants will be included in that 50. So they are not receiving 50 "Cover A" books + a pile of variants; they are receiving

42x "Cover A"
5x "1:10"
2x "1:20"
1x "1:50"
-------------
50 total copies

I think you have to order 50 "regular" in order to qualify to order 1:50, so you pay for all 51 and receive 51.

[Juki]

I'm just trying to understand how these numbers from Comicron are being used for Variant cover estimates.

Question: When you look up the number of sales for a particular Valiant issue on Comicron.com the site gives you an estimated sales number for that particular issue. Does this one number represent the sales for all covers and Variants for that issue?

Unless I am mistaken, when a retailer orders 50 books, he/she will receive 50 books. However, the retailer incentive variants will be included in that 50. So they are not receiving 50 "Cover A" books + a pile of variants; they are receiving

42x "Cover A"
5x "1:10"
2x "1:20"
1x "1:50"
-------------
50 total copies

I think you have to order 50 "regular" in order to qualify to order 1:50, so you pay for all 51 and receive 51.

Maybe Ed from Paradise could chime in and help us out with this one?

[apacseller]

Wow, all three Brushed Metal books in the top 25? I didn't realize they stacked up that impressively against all the other variants. Great list!

[jaspersk]

Question is how many people actually qualified for these variants?
Not counting #1 booksthat were fully retyrnable
Not counting #1 books where retailers got 250-500 copy exclusives
Midtown may get 1 1:50 on the lower runs
Fplanet probably zero
Tfaw impulse grahamcrackers ultimate
Others im not aware of maybe getting one copy
Dcbs maybe getting 5-20? Ed getting a few
20-50 people qualifying? Even the 1:20s
One of the Ninjak series had a bunch of 1:20s
I know i happened to be in nyc for something and
They had 20 copies. Later on in the run they only
Bought 10 copies at fp. I know the hated
Mycomicshop gets a lot of what looks like damages
But really who actually qualifies. Its asinine to print
300+ books if only 20 qualify there have to be other
People getting the books somehow? They should have sold
Extras like stan lee does through stan lee shop.