Bloodshot Salvation 7 - Am I the Only One that Feels Cheated

[TheFerg714]

Don't get me wrong, having an entirely pitch-black issue is a super cool idea, but is it really worth $4? Comics are a relatively expensive medium. $4 for a 5-15 minute experience? When I pay $4 I feel like that money is evenly divided between my (potential) enjoyment of the a) story, b) interior artwork (including pencils, inks, colors, lettering, etc), c) cover art, and d) collectability. Are those four aspects really that much to ask for?

...and that brings me to my point, which is why would I spend $4 on a comic that's just missing one of those aspects, and was obviously cheaper to produce, especially when the art in Salvation has been such a high point? I would have really appreciated it if Valiant would've dropped this issue to at least $3.

Am I crazy? Is it seriously only me that feeling cheated here?

[WrathOfArmstrong]

When I saw the preview for this comic, I was expecting this reaction. I haven't picked it up yet... I bet it will read great in trade between full art issues...

[TheFerg714]

When I saw the preview for this comic, I was expecting this reaction. I haven't picked it up yet... I bet it will read great in trade between full art issues...

For sure.

[TheeBaldMoose]

I won't say you're crazy, and I do understand your point. This is how I see it...

We all know what the characters in Bloodshot Salvation look like, those images are burned into our brain. What Lemire is doing is hammering on those brain cells, calling on our imagination to do it's job. Crazy thing, there won't be a single one of us that views this book the same. Each one of us will visualize the characters a little different. Each one of us will experience and visualize the characters we don't know differently. Some of us may get so into it, that we put ourselves into this "mini movie" and visualize ourselves in Bloodshots shoes. We could go so far as to project our own images of hell, as they may creep into our subconscious. Try as we might attempt to define what the Dead Side might look like (through comic books), this is a totally different experience. Lucky for us, the Dead Side has not really been defined, so our imaginations will run absolutely wild!

I look at this book as an treat for my own imagination. We can't and shouldn't continue to read something that doesn't challenge us. The reading isn't hard, it's at what, a 9th grade level? So challenging our imaginations can be an experience you won't soon forget.

Ferg, I challenge you, when you read this book, picture everything that is going on, make your own art in your mind. See if you can't entertain yourself, cuz I imagine there is gonna be some scary *SQUEE* going down in this book!

Oh yea, do it in the dark, during a storm, if you can. Make it as creepy as you can, really get your imagination firing!!

Maybe I'm being silly, but this is how I am choosing to attack this book

[nonplayer]

Don't get me wrong, having an entirely pitch-black issue is a super cool idea, but is it really worth $4? Comics are a relatively expensive medium. $4 for a 5-15 minute experience? When I pay $4 I feel like that money is evenly divided between my (potential) enjoyment of the a) story, b) interior artwork (including pencils, inks, colors, lettering, etc), c) cover art, and d) collectability. Are those four aspects really that much to ask for?

...and that brings me to my point, which is why would I spend $4 on a comic that's just missing one of those aspects, and was obviously cheaper to produce, especially when the art in Salvation has been such a high point? I would have really appreciated it if Valiant would've dropped this issue to at least $3.

Am I crazy? Is it seriously only me that feeling cheated here?

Try being in canada bub each comic costs me more. You complain but thats normal for us.

[Zhuge1]

Don't get me wrong, having an entirely pitch-black issue is a super cool idea, but is it really worth $4? Comics are a relatively expensive medium. $4 for a 5-15 minute experience? When I pay $4 I feel like that money is evenly divided between my (potential) enjoyment of the a) story, b) interior artwork (including pencils, inks, colors, lettering, etc), c) cover art, and d) collectability. Are those four aspects really that much to ask for?

...and that brings me to my point, which is why would I spend $4 on a comic that's just missing one of those aspects, and was obviously cheaper to produce, especially when the art in Salvation has been such a high point? I would have really appreciated it if Valiant would've dropped this issue to at least $3.

Am I crazy? Is it seriously only me that feeling cheated here?

I think it's a legitimate feeling. Another point to make -- a big part of the medium of comics/graphic novels is that the story is conveyed with a combination of words and images. That's really what separates it from works of prose. Also (at least in my opinion), modern comics really expand upon this because the artists are given more responsibility with the story-telling. When I've read stuff from >20 years ago, panels are often cluttered with narration boxes (some of which are just recap info), thought bubbles, and extraneous dialog. That "over-writing" sometimes leads to the art simply being a picture and not a part of the actual storytelling. Many modern comics tend to convey action, emotion, etc. more visually by giving some leeway to the artist (or having the writer telling them what to put on the page without the need for those thought bubbles and narration boxes).

This sort of thing seems like a potentially creative mechanism, but it's also a bit of a gimmick, which may make it more heavily weighted in category D for you.

[jeremycoe]

Will Lemire be getting a full art page-rate for his work? I bet he will. John Byrne was paid a full page-rate for his "white-out" issue of Alpha Flight and BWS was paid his normal rate for the Solar #10 cover. This issue won't necessarily be any less expensive for Valiant to produce, so I'm not sure they'd even be able to justify charging less for it.

[DirtbagSailor]

I have read this issue, and reviewed it. Should be published soon.

I will say this;

Imagine a story, where the words painted a picture in your mind (the reader), and with only dark amorphic inks and shapes on the page before you, the action and events unfolded within your own imagination, guided by Lemire's words.

As the story builds, you become accustom the the darkness, and your imagination grows filled with anxiety and fears of the unknown dangers and terrors in the darkness.

Then in a flash, you see that those fears are quite real.

And we begin...

[TheFerg714]

I won't say you're crazy, and I do understand your point. This is how I see it...

We all know what the characters in Bloodshot Salvation look like, those images are burned into our brain. What Lemire is doing is hammering on those brain cells, calling on our imagination to do it's job. Crazy thing, there won't be a single one of us that views this book the same. Each one of us will visualize the characters a little different. Each one of us will experience and visualize the characters we don't know differently. Some of us may get so into it, that we put ourselves into this "mini movie" and visualize ourselves in Bloodshots shoes. We could go so far as to project our own images of hell, as they may creep into our subconscious. Try as we might attempt to define what the Dead Side might look like (through comic books), this is a totally different experience. Lucky for us, the Dead Side has not really been defined, so our imaginations will run absolutely wild!

I look at this book as an treat for my own imagination. We can't and shouldn't continue to read something that doesn't challenge us. The reading isn't hard, it's at what, a 9th grade level? So challenging our imaginations can be an experience you won't soon forget.

Ferg, I challenge you, when you read this book, picture everything that is going on, make your own art in your mind. See if you can't entertain yourself, cuz I imagine there is gonna be some scary *SQUEE* going down in this book!

Oh yea, do it in the dark, during a storm, if you can. Make it as creepy as you can, really get your imagination firing!!

Maybe I'm being silly, but this is how I am choosing to attack this book

I have read this issue, and reviewed it. Should be published soon.

I will say this;

Imagine a story, where the words painted a picture in your mind (the reader), and with only dark amorphic inks and shapes on the page before you, the action and events unfolded within your own imagination, guided by Lemire's words.

As the story builds, you become accustom the the darkness, and your imagination grows filled with anxiety and fears of the unknown dangers and terrors in the darkness.

Then in a flash, you see that those fears are quite real.

And we begin...

Like I said, it seems like an awesome idea, and I'm definitely excited about it, but I just don't know how I feel about that price tag.

Will Lemire be getting a full art page-rate for his work? I bet he will. John Byrne was paid a full page-rate for his "white-out" issue of Alpha Flight and BWS was paid his normal rate for the Solar #10 cover. This issue won't necessarily be any less expensive for Valiant to produce, so I'm not sure they'd even be able to justify charging less for it.

Well that just seems stupid. I can understand paying Lemire extra for doing the entire issue himself, even if the pages are all black, but why would he get the same rate as any other artist doing a tenth of the work? If the world were a rational place I would think that this issue would actually save Valiant a good chunk of money by not charging the (assumed) premium rate that artists like Suayan, LaRosa, and Guedes cost.

[Dr. Solar]

When I was 12, I saw Solar 10 on the spinner rack at my comic shop and I laughed at it because of the all black cover.

Two months later I was my Valiant fandom was born, and I wished I had bought that issue when it was on that spinner rack.


On an unrelated note, I just read Bloodshot Salvation #7, and I loved it. The writing and the art are both great. I think it is pretty unique and interesting/satisfying. I know we all enjoy our comics in our own way, so I can see how you didn't enjoy this issue that much.

[nonplayer]

There will be a easy contest to win a harbingerwars2#0 issue.
That is part to do with bloodshot salvation #7

[onearmedwampa3000]

Nobody's cheating anyone. The description is in the solicits. It's not even out yet; why complain. Just don't buy it.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[TheFerg714]

Nobody's cheating anyone. The description is in the solicits.

Yea, I've read the description, and have come to the conclusion that a comic that's missing artwork isn't worth my $4.

It's not even out yet; why complain.

Because I like Valiant and enjoy talking about the positives and negatives.
In my mind, this is a big negative, so I decided to make a thread about it. I'm not the only one that feels this way.
http://www.outrightgeekery.com/2018/02/ ... -7-review/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just don't buy it.

1) I might not.
2) Regardless of whether I think it's worth the money, it's probably still going to be enjoyable.
3) Valiant and Lemire have gained my trust.
4) I have it on my pull list dude... What am I going to do, go to my poor LCS and say, "Oh hey, I still want to be your one customer that gets Bloodshot, but just leave this one specific issue off my pull so it can sit on your shelf forever."

[TheeBaldMoose]

Nobody's cheating anyone. The description is in the solicits.

Yea, I've read the description, and have come to the conclusion that a comic that's missing artwork isn't worth my $4.

It's not even out yet; why complain.

Because I like Valiant and enjoy talking about the positives and negatives.
In my mind, this is a big negative, so I decided to make a thread about it. I'm not the only one that feels this way.
http://www.outrightgeekery.com/2018/02/ ... -7-review/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just don't buy it.

1) I might not.
2) Regardless of whether I think it's worth the money, it's probably still going to be enjoyable.
3) Valiant and Lemire have gained my trust.
4) I have it on my pull list dude... What am I going to do, go to my poor LCS and say, "Oh hey, I still want to be your one customer that gets Bloodshot, but just leave this one specific issue off my pull so it can sit on your shelf forever."

I do believe there is some art, as my review copy did show fewer pages (roughly 17?) with the last page having art. Take a look at it first before purchase, you just might want to jump on it

[agent_graves]

I get it, but who still pays regular price for their comics? Not counting the occasional browser who’s looking for a gift, or just saw whatever new movie that’s out. Idk, after reading #6, I’m looking forward to #7 now. Nice set up...

[Shadowman99]

Yea, I've read the description, and have come to the conclusion that a comic that's missing artwork isn't worth my $4.

Can I put forward a thought experiment through the comparison of this issue to a normal, prose piece? Would you pay $4 to find out what happens in terms of story progression if it were laid out formally in prose format?

[TheFerg714]

I get it, but who still pays regular price for their comics? Not counting the occasional browser who’s looking for a gift, or just saw whatever new movie that’s out. Idk, after reading #6, I’m looking forward to #7 now. Nice set up...

Why don't you tell that to the comic stores in Omaha.

Can I put forward a thought experiment through the comparison of this issue to a normal, prose piece? Would you pay $4 to find out what happens in terms of story progression if it were laid out formally in prose format?

Yea, probably.

[nonplayer]

The set up dropped the ball for me but meh Its part of the story and I am on for the long haul so its part of the collection not buying it is not an option.

[agent_graves]

I get it, but who still pays regular price for their comics? Not counting the occasional browser who’s looking for a gift, or just saw whatever new movie that’s out. Idk, after reading #6, I’m looking forward to #7 now. Nice set up...

Why don't you tell that to the comic stores in Omaha.

No 10% off your pull list in Omaha, that’s sh!tty. I thought that was standard everywhere, sh!t, I get 16% off at my lcs, but I buy all the Valiant 1:20 & 1:50 they get...

[TheFerg714]

Okay, so it looks like this entire arc is a little lax on content.
Issue 6- All set-up
Issue 7- No artwork
Issue 8- Finale?
Issue 9- Origin of Bloodhound

I get it, but who still pays regular price for their comics? Not counting the occasional browser who’s looking for a gift, or just saw whatever new movie that’s out. Idk, after reading #6, I’m looking forward to #7 now. Nice set up...

Why don't you tell that to the comic stores in Omaha.

No 10% off your pull list in Omaha, that’s sh!tty. I thought that was standard everywhere, sh!t, I get 16% off at my lcs, but I buy all the Valiant 1:20 & 1:50 they get...

Well Ground Zero does 20% off for pull list customers, but they barely have anything in stock (besides Marvel and DC), and it's a b***h to try to get them to order indies; Legend Comics (& Coffee) doesn't have a discount, but you get 50% off back issues; I think Dragon's Lair does 20% off back issues; and Krypton doesn't do anything.

I've asked all of them about discounts for pull lists and they all give me this response like, "you're kidding, right?"

[Shadowman99]

Okay, so it looks like this entire arc is a little lax on content.
Issue 6- All set-up
Issue 7- No artwork
Issue 8- Finale?
Issue 9- Origin of Bloodhound

I get it, but who still pays regular price for their comics? Not counting the occasional browser who’s looking for a gift, or just saw whatever new movie that’s out. Idk, after reading #6, I’m looking forward to #7 now. Nice set up...

Why don't you tell that to the comic stores in Omaha.

No 10% off your pull list in Omaha, that’s sh!tty. I thought that was standard everywhere, sh!t, I get 16% off at my lcs, but I buy all the Valiant 1:20 & 1:50 they get...

Well Ground Zero does 20% off for pull list customers, but they barely have anything in stock (besides Marvel and DC), and it's a b***h to try to get them to order indies; Legend Comics (& Coffee) doesn't have a discount, but you get 50% off back issues; I think Dragon's Lair does 20% off back issues; and Krypton doesn't do anything.

I've asked all of them about discounts for pull lists and they all give me this response like, "you're kidding, right?"

That sounds like a pretty *SQUEE* LCS

[nonplayer]

I get it, but who still pays regular price for their comics? Not counting the occasional browser who’s looking for a gift, or just saw whatever new movie that’s out. Idk, after reading #6, I’m looking forward to #7 now. Nice set up...

Why don't you tell that to the comic stores in Omaha.

No 10% off your pull list in Omaha, that’s sh!tty. I thought that was standard everywhere, sh!t, I get 16% off at my lcs, but I buy all the Valiant 1:20 & 1:50 they get...

I pay full price we only get 10% off if we order 5 titles or more. And valiand has not put out five titles I lik in a long time.

[TheFerg714]

That sounds like a pretty *SQUEE* LCS

Going on a real tangent here...
It's hard to argue. I had to leave Legend a few months ago when they forgot Ninja-K #1 in October, Eternity #1 in November, and the real kicker was Doomsday Clock #1 in December, which I was crazy hyped for. I even ordered an extra one for my friend, and I had a whole conversation with the owners about it not even a week prior. Man, I was SO p***ed when they said they were sold out unless I ordered one.

If it wasn't for the shear enjoyment of going to a shop every week and seeing all the pretty new books on the shelves, I would probably do DCBS.

I have a pull with Ground Zero now (the one with 20% off), but it can be frustrating having to drive around the city looking for indie books. Luckily, I'm such a good customer, that they agreed to order every Valiant book for me.

So what's the story with the rest of you guys' LCS's? Do they normally do discounts for subscribers? Sometimes it really blows my mind how much these places don't want my money. I've never worked in a comic store, so feel free to correct me, but what's the point in keeping all of these random back issues that every 1 in 1000th person might be interested in? Are they seriously just praying that someone will show up that happens to want Supreme Squadron #15?

Why not get this stuff into people's hands and off the shelves any way you can? These places seem so damn stingy with their discounts while their back-stock just sits there for years on end.

[geocarr]

I haven't had a pull list at an LCS since the 90's and back then they had a three tiered system depending on how many titles were on your pull list. I think the discounts ranged from 15% to 30%. It was wonderful

[Shadowman99]

I'm a subscriber at Dead Universe Comics in the UK and those guys do a discount (if I recall correctly) for simply having a pullbox with them. I did subscribe at Forbidden Planet for a while (when VEI first started) but they didn't offer any discount because they're a chain (with about six shops... ).

It seems to me that smaller LCS are the way to go in terms of getting good customer service, but that's only based on my experience of shopping with the aforementioned stores. Even then, I get the impression that different independents can be significantly different in the quality of service on offer, so I guess maybe you just have to hunt for a service that best suits you.

Maybe you coud consider shopping remotely at an LCS: Dead Universe Comics are based (roughly) in central/eastern England, and whilst I've never once set foot instore I keep regular contact with the staff there (and do all my shopping with them) through facebook, and they've literally posted comics all over the country for me whilst I've been moving around these last few years. I think my dealings with them might(?) be fairly exceptional insofar as the informality is concerned, but they're happy enough to work for me so I gather that everyone's happy at the end of the day (i.e. I have my comics and they have my cash!).

My impression is that you enjoy walking into an LCS so this might not work for you, but perhaps you could set up an informal mail-order service with a better LCS?