Rafer

[Michael_Ayer]

Not getting it... thanks for going for it and risking it. Unfortunately it's not clicking with me. I keep on getting AA and Harbinger but is it worth my $$ each time? Convince me. Cause I'm almost done

[Manaf82]

Yeah,it's not worth it..


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[greg]

I'm not saying that there haven't been great Valiant books recently, because there definitely have... but it's looking a lot like Valiant at least partially "jumped the shark" when they literally created a walking, talking fish. Maybe the shark that Fonzie jumped was named Davey.

The good is still good, though. Divinity #0, especially the last page... and whatever comes next in that story is still exciting to anticipate. X-O 2017 and Secret Weapons have also been very, very good.

None of those are "Rafer", of course, but that's because Valiant is a lot more than him.

[ShadowTuga]

I'm not saying that there haven't been great Valiant books recently, because there definitely have... but it's looking a lot like Valiant at least partially "jumped the shark" when they literally created a walking, talking fish. Maybe the shark that Fonzie jumped was named Davey.

The good is still good, though. Divinity #0, especially the last page... and whatever comes next in that story is still exciting to anticipate. X-O 2017 and Secret Weapons have also been very, very good.

None of those are "Rafer", of course, but that's because Valiant is a lot more than him.

I think we (and now I'm talking only about the people that were here in 2012) were really spoiled by that Summer (and Autumn) of Valiant. X-O by V-Ditty, Dysarbinger, FVL's Archer & Armstrong and a Bloodshot book that really messed with your mind (Bloodshot #1 is one of the most f-d up books I ever read; and I read it some 10 times, honest- there was so much stuff going on. Loved that first arc, absolutely terrific comics) That summer made it look like everything would have the same level of quality.

Then came Shadowman, Quantum & Woody and Eternal Warrior. The bar was lowered. And in a particular case, really, really low (Q&W's second arc). I had to swallow a bit of my words of praise, because "I am Shadowman!" is not what I wanted from Valiant. And not what I expected, honestly. So, I have been aware that not everything is AWESOME from a long time now.

But these days, I can't support Valiant, as much as I would like them to have great success. I have dropped all of the ongoings, and am just finishing reading Rapture and Secret Weapons right now. Faith became "too much of a good thing..." material, I don't care about X-O's adventure in space with the blue meanies, don't care about the next chapter of Lone Wolf & Cub BS and my boy Shadowman has got to be the most tragic reboot of all times. He freaking killed his dad because... what was it? (rethorical q)

My tastes are not that different, if any, at all. I just don't see a book(s) that I could get behind, in an ongoing way. I hate minis and maxis. I hate this SJW comics era (and I'm a liberal guy!) and what the non-readers did to this industry. And on that: Valiant is a comics first company, but they are now dealing with Hollywood and if the movies bring new readers (of course they will, if Leto and Batista are involved in talks, this is another level of multimedia presence), I expect them to be smart and give the new readers a book they can get. So, yeah, I am already complaining about the future. Not the best place to be, as a fan.

I'm just not one of them (a new reader). And I'm all for a "complete the puzzle" mentality, when it comes to comics; it's how I got into it, it's the best way to make a book feel "important"; how many of us jumped into a series in their hundreds? Did we complain that we did not have the 5000 issues that came before?

Make my comics old-school (high numbering, less variants, done-in-ones in spades, meaningfu/Important crossovers, etc), and if Valiant is not that company, fine- I will always have the good stuff that came out and I love you guys anyway.

[hawkeyeps]

I'm not saying that there haven't been great Valiant books recently, because there definitely have... but it's looking a lot like Valiant at least partially "jumped the shark" when they literally created a walking, talking fish. Maybe the shark that Fonzie jumped was named Davey.

The good is still good, though. Divinity #0, especially the last page... and whatever comes next in that story is still exciting to anticipate. X-O 2017 and Secret Weapons have also been very, very good.

None of those are "Rafer", of course, but that's because Valiant is a lot more than him.

I think we (and now I'm talking only about the people that were here in 2012) were really spoiled by that Summer (and Autumn) of Valiant. X-O by V-Ditty, Dysarbinger, FVL's Archer & Armstrong and a Bloodshot book that really messed with your mind (Bloodshot #1 is one of the most f-d up books I ever read; and I read it some 10 times, honest- there was so much stuff going on. Loved that first arc, absolutely terrific comics) That summer made it look like everything would have the same level of quality.

Then came Shadowman, Quantum & Woody and Eternal Warrior. The bar was lowered. And in a particular case, really, really low (Q&W's second arc). I had to swallow a bit of my words of praise, because "I am Shadowman!" is not what I wanted from Valiant. And not what I expected, honestly. So, I have been aware that not everything is AWESOME from a long time now.

But these days, I can't support Valiant, as much as I would like them to have great success. I have dropped all of the ongoings, and am just finishing reading Rapture and Secret Weapons right now. Faith became "too much of a good thing..." material, I don't care about X-O's adventure in space with the blue meanies, don't care about the next chapter of Lone Wolf & Cub BS and my boy Shadowman has got to be the most tragic reboot of all times. He freaking killed his dad because... what was it? (rethorical q)

My tastes are not that different, if any, at all. I just don't see a book(s) that I could get behind, in an ongoing way. I hate minis and maxis. I hate this SJW comics era (and I'm a liberal guy!) and what the non-readers did to this industry. And on that: Valiant is a comics first company, but they are now dealing with Hollywood and if the movies bring new readers (of course they will, if Leto and Batista are involved in talks, this is another level of multimedia presence), I expect them to be smart and give the new readers a book they can get. So, yeah, I am already complaining about the future. Not the best place to be, as a fan.

I'm just not one of them (a new reader). And I'm all for a "complete the puzzle" mentality, when it comes to comics; it's how I got into it, it's the best way to make a book feel "important"; how many of us jumped into a series in their hundreds? Did we complain that we did not have the 5000 issues that came before?

Make my comics old-school (high numbering, less variants, done-in-ones in spades, meaningfu/Important crossovers, etc), and if Valiant is not that company, fine- I will always have the good stuff that came out and I love you guys anyway.

You see this what bothers me most. We became friends way back in the beginning and Dysart was right there remember?

I feel it was the Harbinger book most of all that drew us together and made us such a tight friendly group. It was the common point, the touchstone of our friendships. We are all still friends but it feels like that common point is lost, the thing we all mutually loved is no longer there, it's something else now.

Secret Weapons gives me hope though, it's a good book and everybody is solidly behind it. We need more stuff like that. With each issue of Renegade it's like more salt on the wound.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I'm not saying that there haven't been great Valiant books recently, because there definitely have... but it's looking a lot like Valiant at least partially "jumped the shark" when they literally created a walking, talking fish.

Yeah this was a low and the editors really need to get a grip of stuff like this. However, I don't see this as any worse than FVL on A&A with some of the nonsense he came up with (Armstrong getting arrows in the eye sockets and shaking it off like it's nothing, and some of the woeful cults he created ). So yes, Rafer has moved Valiant further away from the 'World outside your window' approach with his run on A&A (and Harby Renegades is just 'ok') but let's keep it real there have been other writers just as guilty.

With only 6 books being released, Valiant can't afford to have 4 out of the 6 as mediocre. We need to step the game up. I think Bloodshot Salvation will be high quality and I'm hopeful the new Ninjak book steers well clear of the Deadside and focuses on espionage/ninja stuff

I think we're just in a temporary lull.

[nycjadie]

The initial wave of 2012 books were some of the best I've read. Truly epic. They appealed to old fans, as well as gave a cinematic viewpoint on storytelling, which I think was necessary to get the movie industry interested as they are today.

Now, Valiant is trying to cater to a wider audience. Faith is overly cutesy to appeal to an audience. Rafer provides some of that comic relief, and is admittedly, far more over the top than my tastes appreciate. Kindt provides that indie creator vibe, which I very much appreciate most of the time (although, he often relies on tropes).

There are a few books I haven't read yet. I tend to binge read in batches, and then reread much later. However, I'm still pretty happy with the stable of books overall. I did stop reading A+A and Faith. I just couldn't force myself to finish. Maybe I will. It's uncharacteristic of me to drop something that isn't good. But life is short, and as I get older, I'd much rather spend my extremely limited time enjoying things I actually enjoy, as opposed to being a completionist.

[ShadowTuga]

You see this what bothers me most. We became friends way back in the beginning and Dysart was right there remember?

Awesome times, indeed.
Dysart was/is the coolest dude. I will buy anything that he might still write for Valiant, but its a shame that he did not get to tell the story he wanted in "Renegade(s)". Sucks.

Also, for clarification: I meant less gimmicks, not less variants. I don't care if a cover is super hard to get, but books for the "american territories" only (the promotion books like LotG and Harbinger Wars 2 #0), *SQUEE* me off real bad. That's something I can't forgive Valiant for, sorry. I invested a lot of time and money in this universe, and to not be able to read ALL of the stuff I want, feels a bit harsher. Its not their fault, some say. Well, I think it is. I don't see DC or Marvel restricting their readership by releasing this type of books, by mail, or whatever. These are not the 90s and I wish that the high heads at the company would remember this. I GET that Valiant IS a 90s company, but so is Image. And we know how bad Image is doing these days, right? (attempt at sarcasm)

And on that: I don't know if there's room for a 3rd superhero shared universe in the general sense. But the thing that made us loyalists in the first place was the Quality. I can't say that Valiant is releasing most of their output these days with a Quality stamp on. The daring, quality storytelling is still here (the Divinities are a huge boost in the originality of the Universe, and save for Stalinverse's ending, I liked everything so far), but when you have talking fishes, cute anime-inspired villains (Faith's rogues), or bland comics like Renegade, ALL at the same time, the company looks not-Valiant.
Again, this is just my opinion.

[Zhuge1]

I'm not saying that there haven't been great Valiant books recently, because there definitely have... but it's looking a lot like Valiant at least partially "jumped the shark" when they literally created a walking, talking fish. Maybe the shark that Fonzie jumped was named Davey.

The good is still good, though. Divinity #0, especially the last page... and whatever comes next in that story is still exciting to anticipate. X-O 2017 and Secret Weapons have also been very, very good.

None of those are "Rafer", of course, but that's because Valiant is a lot more than him.

I think we (and now I'm talking only about the people that were here in 2012) were really spoiled by that Summer (and Autumn) of Valiant. X-O by V-Ditty, Dysarbinger, FVL's Archer & Armstrong and a Bloodshot book that really messed with your mind (Bloodshot #1 is one of the most f-d up books I ever read; and I read it some 10 times, honest- there was so much stuff going on. Loved that first arc, absolutely terrific comics) That summer made it look like everything would have the same level of quality.

Then came Shadowman, Quantum & Woody and Eternal Warrior. The bar was lowered. And in a particular case, really, really low (Q&W's second arc). I had to swallow a bit of my words of praise, because "I am Shadowman!" is not what I wanted from Valiant. And not what I expected, honestly. So, I have been aware that not everything is AWESOME from a long time now.

But these days, I can't support Valiant, as much as I would like them to have great success. I have dropped all of the ongoings, and am just finishing reading Rapture and Secret Weapons right now. Faith became "too much of a good thing..." material, I don't care about X-O's adventure in space with the blue meanies, don't care about the next chapter of Lone Wolf & Cub BS and my boy Shadowman has got to be the most tragic reboot of all times. He freaking killed his dad because... what was it? (rethorical q)

My tastes are not that different, if any, at all. I just don't see a book(s) that I could get behind, in an ongoing way. I hate minis and maxis. I hate this SJW comics era (and I'm a liberal guy!) and what the non-readers did to this industry. And on that: Valiant is a comics first company, but they are now dealing with Hollywood and if the movies bring new readers (of course they will, if Leto and Batista are involved in talks, this is another level of multimedia presence), I expect them to be smart and give the new readers a book they can get. So, yeah, I am already complaining about the future. Not the best place to be, as a fan.

I'm just not one of them (a new reader). And I'm all for a "complete the puzzle" mentality, when it comes to comics; it's how I got into it, it's the best way to make a book feel "important"; how many of us jumped into a series in their hundreds? Did we complain that we did not have the 5000 issues that came before?

Make my comics old-school (high numbering, less variants, done-in-ones in spades, meaningfu/Important crossovers, etc), and if Valiant is not that company, fine- I will always have the good stuff that came out and I love you guys anyway.

Re: Shadowman -- don't forget that not only did he kill his dad for whatever foolish reason.... his dad was seemingly already dead based on the first arc...

[TheFerg714]

Damn, we got some serious negativity in here. I'm not gonna lie, I'm disappointed in Roberts' output too, and Valiant for sure isn't as good as it was in 2013, but I feel like people are focusing on the little too much on the negatives. Just look at what's been coming out the last few months... Brittania, and Faith and the Future Force are solid stories, X-O Manowar and Secret Weapons are potentially instant classics, and the rest of Valiant's 2017 slate looks great!

I'll never understand why some people are writing off fresh (and probably awesome) ideas like Bloodshot Salvation, Ninja-K, Eternity, and War Mother, and only focusing on the one book that drives you over the edge.

Honestly, we're lucky that we got the insane quality of the core four books a few years ago, but did anyone really expect Valiant to creat an A+ book every single time? And the 2012 Bloodshot (and HARD Corps) series wasn't even that good! Imo, Valiant's stuff almost always ranges from good to phenomenal, so I'm not even close to giving up yet.

[Dallow Spicer1]

One other point on the Rafer thing, I don't think Valiant have helped him by pairing him up with risky art choices. Lafuente on A&A was a very nichè taste and Robertson on Harby Renegade doesn't help either. I thought issue #6 with Ryp on the art elevated the issue.

Let's get Rafer better artists to work with

[Keith]

Damn, we got some serious negativity in here. I'm not gonna lie, I'm disappointed in Roberts' output too, and Valiant for sure isn't as good as it was in 2013, but I feel like people are focusing on the little too much on the negatives. Just look at what's been coming out the last few months... Brittania, and Faith and the Future Force are solid stories, X-O Manowar and Secret Weapons are potentially instant classics, and the rest of Valiant's 2017 slate looks great!

I'll never understand why some people are writing off fresh (and probably awesome) ideas like Bloodshot Salvation, Ninja-K, Eternity, and War Mother, and only focusing on the one book that drives you over the edge.

Honestly, we're lucky that we got the insane quality of the core four books a few years ago, but did anyone really expect Valiant to creat an A+ book every single time? And the 2012 Bloodshot (and HARD Corps) series wasn't even that good! Imo, Valiant's stuff almost always ranges from good to phenomenal, so I'm not even close to giving up yet.

+1, Ferg.

Though let's not forget what 2013 brought. Shadowman was scraping bottom barrel, and Eternal Warrior was a giant cluster. Two icons of the line, and they weren't that great in those outings. And then we had amazing comics come out since then, like the rest of Harbinger and Archer & Armstrong, Armor Hunters and The Valiant, Bloodshot Reborn, Book of Death, Wrath of the Eternal Warrior, all of Divinity, etc. I pity the poor sod who dropped the line back then and missed out on all the goodness that came along.

[Michael_Ayer]

Very true about art choices. Maybe I would like him a bit better with a different artist. I have not enjoyed the last few artist with him.

[jmatt]

I thought issue #6 with Ryp on the art elevated the issue.

That's very true. If the art is working for ya, it's gonna detract from overall satisfaction and perhaps skew one's opinion of the writing as well.

[TheFerg714]

+1, Ferg.

Though let's not forget what 2013 brought. Shadowman was scraping bottom barrel, and Eternal Warrior was a giant cluster. Two icons of the line, and they weren't that great in those outings. And then we had amazing comics come out since then, like the rest of Harbinger and Archer & Armstrong, Armor Hunters and The Valiant, Bloodshot Reborn, Book of Death, Wrath of the Eternal Warrior, all of Divinity, etc. I pity the poor sod who dropped the line back then and missed out on all the goodness that came along.

Yea, 2013 had Shadowman, EW, and Q&W, but the first few issues of Shadowman were promising and even though Q&W wasn't exactly warmly received by the fans, it did pretty well for Valiant. The main reason I said 2013 is because the core four were really hitting their stride at the time, including Harbinger Wars.

Although, in my opinion, Valiant has yet to top Harbinger and A&A, there have been a myriad of 5/5 books that have came out since then.