Long Term Collectability of modern comics

[jmatt]

Mmm, I don't see the term as a pejorative. The only time you ever see it is when someone is also referencing TPBs. It's just a descriptor to distinguish it from "comics", the hobby in general.

If someone said to me, "yeah, I'm not buying comics anymore" I might lump in TPBs with that statement. But if he says "I'm not buying floppies anymore", I know exactly what he means.

[StarBrand]

I remember when everyone was wondering if Bronze keys were going to be long term keys.

[Draco]

I remember when everyone was wondering if Bronze keys were going to be long term keys.

hey always had to be, so many underrated stories that were mis treated for years, underprinted in comparison to much more popular 60's, so many thrown away etc etc.
I advised people in the early 2000's on what to buy BA wise and they are all callin and thanking and now takin same advise and books from the last 30 years

My fave was 9.4 cgc sig Hero for hire # 1 paid £200 and just sold for £1500 less than ten years later. Love that.

[Zhuge1]

I personally think that commissions and original art is the way to go as far as collectible. Unique pieces numbered to less than 1,000 are worth their weight in gold.

As far as reprint TPBs go- I have a nearly complete set of Sandman. But I won't read them... I'll read the TPBs instead and not damage the book from another reading.

What's missing and what's important is that the other half is not there... there's no one hoarding any VEI books apart from Greg and Sonic!!!

These days, $4.00 is not pocket change; it's an investment. And I don't want my investments to ruin. I was lucky enough to grow up with 50 cent comics and I had a $5.00 allowance!

All I see is a dragon eating it's tail... I suggest everyone invest in unique items that are numbered from honest people who just want to see it happen! People like me!!!

That's an interesting point -- although original art does also seem to have the variability that one finds in general comics. Just checking eBay, there are some original pages that can be purchased for $20-50 (especially from some of the 90's bubble comics), while others go for hundreds or thousands.

I wonder -- how would others compare collecting original page art versus commissioned art. Commissioned art seems great for the individual that was able to get specifically what they wanted, but would it be valued by other collectors? In terms of page art, I could see a greater demand for specific pages (or pages from specific key books) than would be the case for commissioned pieces.

And to also chime in on the trades vs. floppies discussion -- I'm one of the folks who only buys trades, and I do so for a few reasons:
- I have boxes of single issues from when I first collected in the 90's that I struggle to figure out where to store in my house, whereas I can easily throw trades up on a bookshelf.
- I tend to assume trades aren't likely to gain value, so I tend to be less careful in reading them (whereas with single issues I've got an ingrained mentality that they somehow might be worth something, so I need to be ultra careful).
- I find trades to be much more easily portable, so it's far easier for me to read while out of town.
- I also like the fact that the entire story arc is contained in one book -- I don't have to try to hunt out individual issues and I can stop reading mid-issue more easily.

All that said, I know some folks who have went almost entirely to digital comics and those have some of the advantages I mention above (physical storage, portability, easy to read/pause at various points), and yet I tend not to use those because I find it harder to appreciate the artwork (which is an important part of comics reading to me).

[Aram]

I think twd and saga will be as sought after as early xmen and amazing spiderman for future generations. Others will be like others, liked by many, but not as mainstream.

[Aram]

I love comics but I rarely see anybody below age 30 in my LCBS unless they have been dragged in there by their pops. Imo, print comics have become a niche that will cease to exist within 75 years. It pains me to type it, but I believe so.

I think most of us in the over 30 bracket are collectors who are unsatisfied with the quality and price presented in most lcs and prefer to shop online.

[Shadowman99]

I think twd and saga will be as sought after as early xmen and amazing spiderman for future generations. Others will be like others, liked by many, but not as mainstream.

I agree with this. I don't think a comic has to be a continuing property in order to be considered valued by interested parties. Someone mentioned Gaimen's Sandman earlier: desite the recent reprise that comic hasn't been out for... How long?! and the whole time, and still, it retains its 'place' amongst those in the know as a 'classic' or 'quality' comic (or whatever you want to call it). Absolutely no need for a comic to be hitting the shelves every month in order to maintain their financial value. What about Bone or Cerebus? Still regarded as 'great' comics but they ended over a decade ago.

The Walking Dead and Saga may end up being two contemporary comics that end up becoming 'great' and 'valuable', maybe not. But there are sure to be other new titles in the future that end up becoming 'great' too

[Shadowman99]

Mmm, I don't see the term as a pejorative. The only time you ever see it is when someone is also referencing TPBs. It's just a descriptor to distinguish it from "comics", the hobby in general.

If someone said to me, "yeah, I'm not buying comics anymore" I might lump in TPBs with that statement. But if he says "I'm not buying floppies anymore", I know exactly what he means.

Me neither. I'm honestly surprised that anyone would think to use the term that way I'm totally with Jmatt here - as far as I recall I've only ever heard it used for the purpose of distinguishing, well, the floppies from the... slightly less floppies

An again, if someone told me: "yeah, I'm not buying comics anymore" I'd firstly assume they meant comics as an entire media form, not just the monthly publications. If someone says they're thinking of foregoing floppies then my first assumption is that they're considering buying comics in an alternative medium.

[onearmedwampa3000]

I may have missed it, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned comics as an art form. Comics are art. To me, no different than a painting or sculpture or vase. Humans love collecting and appreciating. There may be more opportunity for more than one person to own a piece of this art, but as long as there are humans art will exist.

On a side note, Greg, I used to have a coin collection when I was a kid. It was passed down to me from my great grand parents, then stolen when my house was ransacked as a kid. So I'd have to disagree with the "zero nostalgia" clause. In fact, I'd be first in line for a new horror movie called 'The Coin Collector' staring Tom Cruise and Oprah Winfrey!

[Shadowman99]

I may have missed it, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned comics as an art form. Comics are art. To me, no different than a painting or sculpture or vase. Humans love collecting and appreciating. There may be more opportunity for more than one person to own a piece of this art, but as long as there are humans art will exist.

I guess it'd be interesting to see how many people agree here that "comics are an art form".

Personally I accept the notion, but I certainly consider comics as being more an entertainment medium than I do an art form. I therefore couldn't 'collect' comics just for the sake of owning a cool cover to frame and put on my wall for example, just because I like the artwork - for me, the story inside has to be entertaining: that's where I decide what I feel the overall value of a comic is to myself. I could (and obviously do) therefore collect comics as a means of consuming entertainment, but I couldn't collect or appreciate them solely for artistic value - that's only part of the overall package to me.

[Zhuge1]

I may have missed it, but I'm surprised that no one has mentioned comics as an art form. Comics are art. To me, no different than a painting or sculpture or vase. Humans love collecting and appreciating. There may be more opportunity for more than one person to own a piece of this art, but as long as there are humans art will exist.

On a side note, Greg, I used to have a coin collection when I was a kid. It was passed down to me from my great grand parents, then stolen when my house was ransacked as a kid. So I'd have to disagree with the "zero nostalgia" clause. In fact, I'd be first in line for a new horror movie called 'The Coin Collector' staring Tom Cruise and Oprah Winfrey!

In terms of art form, I would compare comics (as an entire medium) more to literature or film (which seems, at least in terms of academia, to be a derivative of literature). Just like with books, stories, and movies, there are some examples that are creative and innovative uses of the medium, and others that may have high entertainment value but little "artistic" value for the medium (for example, the difference between The Great Gatsby and a paperback in the romance section or the difference between Memento and Death Race).

That said, one component of the comics medium is the original art used for the books which I think does compare to other visual art (paintings, etchings, vases, etc.).

[greg]

On a side note, Greg, I used to have a coin collection when I was a kid. It was passed down to me from my great grand parents, then stolen when my house was ransacked as a kid. So I'd have to disagree with the "zero nostalgia" clause. In fact, I'd be first in line for a new horror movie called 'The Coin Collector' staring Tom Cruise and Oprah Winfrey!

I have some nostalgia for the smell of the bakery that made cupcakes near my grandparent's house when I was a kid. Not sure there's a wide appeal collectibles market anywhere in that... though I would guess Oprah loves cupcakes. Not sure what she thinks of old coins.

[onearmedwampa3000]

On a side note, Greg, I used to have a coin collection when I was a kid. It was passed down to me from my great grand parents, then stolen when my house was ransacked as a kid. So I'd have to disagree with the "zero nostalgia" clause. In fact, I'd be first in line for a new horror movie called 'The Coin Collector' staring Tom Cruise and Oprah Winfrey!

I have some nostalgia for the smell of the bakery that made cupcakes near my grandparent's house when I was a kid. Not sure there's a wide appeal collectibles market anywhere in that... though I would guess Oprah loves cupcakes. Not sure what she thinks of old coins.

I used to have a cupcake collection too.

[grendeljd]

On a side note, Greg, I used to have a coin collection when I was a kid. It was passed down to me from my great grand parents, then stolen when my house was ransacked as a kid. So I'd have to disagree with the "zero nostalgia" clause. In fact, I'd be first in line for a new horror movie called 'The Coin Collector' staring Tom Cruise and Oprah Winfrey!

I have some nostalgia for the smell of the bakery that made cupcakes near my grandparent's house when I was a kid. Not sure there's a wide appeal collectibles market anywhere in that... though I would guess Oprah loves cupcakes. Not sure what she thinks of old coins.

I used to have a cupcake collection too.

My wife got a muffin from Tim Hortons one day & didn't eat it... She ended up leaving it on her desk for a couple days, then a week, then it became a joke around the office to see how long she would keep it. At that point she moved it to a shelf above her desk where it sat for years [no joke]. It didn't get mouldy, it didn't rot, it didn't shrivel up, or break down in any way...

it didn't change at all. For years...

The horror!!

So I guess what I'm saying is, my wife had a muffin collection once...

[onearmedwampa3000]

On a side note, Greg, I used to have a coin collection when I was a kid. It was passed down to me from my great grand parents, then stolen when my house was ransacked as a kid. So I'd have to disagree with the "zero nostalgia" clause. In fact, I'd be first in line for a new horror movie called 'The Coin Collector' staring Tom Cruise and Oprah Winfrey!

I have some nostalgia for the smell of the bakery that made cupcakes near my grandparent's house when I was a kid. Not sure there's a wide appeal collectibles market anywhere in that... though I would guess Oprah loves cupcakes. Not sure what she thinks of old coins.

I used to have a cupcake collection too.

My wife got a muffin from Tim Hortons one day & didn't eat it... She ended up leaving it on her desk for a couple days, then a week, then it became a joke around the office to see how long she would keep it. At that point she moved it to a shelf above her desk where it sat for years [no joke]. It didn't get mouldy, it didn't rot, it didn't shrivel up, or break down in any way...

it didn't change at all. For years...

The horror!!

So I guess what I'm saying is, my wife had a muffin collection once...

Dude... imagine if she had eaten it...

[wwise03]

If you think Invincible is going to retain its value, I'll be happy to sell you my issues. I have every first print of the series. But the series is better read in hardcover format and I don't see the single issues being valuable when the series ends.

[grendeljd]

On a side note, Greg, I used to have a coin collection when I was a kid. It was passed down to me from my great grand parents, then stolen when my house was ransacked as a kid. So I'd have to disagree with the "zero nostalgia" clause. In fact, I'd be first in line for a new horror movie called 'The Coin Collector' staring Tom Cruise and Oprah Winfrey!

I have some nostalgia for the smell of the bakery that made cupcakes near my grandparent's house when I was a kid. Not sure there's a wide appeal collectibles market anywhere in that... though I would guess Oprah loves cupcakes. Not sure what she thinks of old coins.

I used to have a cupcake collection too.

My wife got a muffin from Tim Hortons one day & didn't eat it... She ended up leaving it on her desk for a couple days, then a week, then it became a joke around the office to see how long she would keep it. At that point she moved it to a shelf above her desk where it sat for years [no joke]. It didn't get mouldy, it didn't rot, it didn't shrivel up, or break down in any way...

it didn't change at all. For years...

The horror!!

So I guess what I'm saying is, my wife had a muffin collection once...

Dude... imagine if she had eaten it...

Well the truly scary thing is ... a lot of people do eat Tim Horton muffins! If it doesn't rot in open air ever, what happens to it while it's in your guts?!

[Shadowman99]

On a side note, Greg, I used to have a coin collection when I was a kid. It was passed down to me from my great grand parents, then stolen when my house was ransacked as a kid. So I'd have to disagree with the "zero nostalgia" clause. In fact, I'd be first in line for a new horror movie called 'The Coin Collector' staring Tom Cruise and Oprah Winfrey!

I have some nostalgia for the smell of the bakery that made cupcakes near my grandparent's house when I was a kid. Not sure there's a wide appeal collectibles market anywhere in that... though I would guess Oprah loves cupcakes. Not sure what she thinks of old coins.

I used to have a cupcake collection too.

My wife got a muffin from Tim Hortons one day & didn't eat it... She ended up leaving it on her desk for a couple days, then a week, then it became a joke around the office to see how long she would keep it. At that point she moved it to a shelf above her desk where it sat for years [no joke]. It didn't get mouldy, it didn't rot, it didn't shrivel up, or break down in any way...

it didn't change at all. For years...

The horror!!

So I guess what I'm saying is, my wife had a muffin collection once...

Dude... imagine if she had eaten it...

Well the truly scary thing is ... a lot of people do eat Tim Horton muffins! If it doesn't rot in open air ever, what happens to it while it's in your guts?!

I saw an article once that discussed how McDonald's food is pretty famous for never going off when stored at a fairly standard-ish room temperature. Apparently it's nothing to do with preservatives and the like but more to do with the food drying out and so the dry conditions (the food 'environment' itself, in relation to the organism collective) are not able to host the bacteria that would otherwise consume and degrade the organic matter.

That does make sense logically, but I'm still not 100% convinced that that's the whole truth of it. Still wouldn't touch a McDonalds/Burger King/[any other applicable chain] myself.

Perhaps 'dryness' was a factor in the Eternal Muffin's origin story.

[GGSAE]

Now, where to spend 100k say on modern vs copper vs bronze vs silver vs gold in today's valuations, that's another question. I think if you're investing in comics, you need to be lucky and good, and very targeted to have a chance, long term anyway.

I'm going to cut you off here and ask some questions, if you're looking at modern comics as primarily as an investment, then don't. I don't think anyone should be replacing sounds financial planning (paying off debt, investing in equity assets long-term, owning property, etc.) with intangible collectibles like comics. AF 15 can easily drop in value 50% in a short period of time, there is 100% subjectivity in these things. Counting on modern comics to hold their value is a dangerous game; spend money on things you enjoy and don't focus on what it's worth 1-5-10-20 years from now.

[GGSAE]

Also, I think someone touched-on it, but regarding the ever-increasing supply. I think Iron Man was a big proponent of a shared universe or long-term titles/characters to identify key issues, or issues that stay. As more and more comics are pumped-out, collectors will be limited in space (desire) and will have to focus on the key issues just to 'have' the most important book of that series. That's not to say a non-key can't become huge as Elveen mentioned, since it's very speculative, however I would not be buying any 'hot' modern book that was pumped up for some superficial reason, e.g. Peter Panzerfaust. Barring a movie or tv show, will anyone care? If it was a $5 comic, I'd say the risk/reward is mitigated.

[possumgrease]

I don't think anyone should be replacing sounds financial planning (paying off debt, investing in equity assets long-term, owning property, etc.) with intangible collectibles like comics.

Just wanted to say that I fully agree with this statement. Comic collecting should be considered a hobby only. If you make any money holding them long term, then be happy but don't think of yourself as wise.

I hear this "investment" concept from too many people in too many contexts. And I suppose if you bend the meanings, you can make it fit. "I think this handle of Evan Williams is a better investment that the case of Coors Light for my Saturday afternoon babysitting job."

[FlipMega]

I don't think anyone should be replacing sounds financial planning (paying off debt, investing in equity assets long-term, owning property, etc.) with intangible collectibles like comics.

Just wanted to say that I fully agree with this statement. Comic collecting should be considered a hobby only. If you make any money holding them long term, then be happy but don't think of yourself as wise.

I hear this "investment" concept from too many people in too many contexts. And I suppose if you bend the meanings, you can make it fit. "I think this handle of Evan Williams is a better investment that the case of Coors Light for my Saturday afternoon babysitting job."

The heart of this (these, counting both quoted) comment is certainly true - no one should replace sound financial planning with anything. But to label comics as a hobby only is boxed, narrow thinking. The collectibles industry isn't as successful as it is simply as a function of hobby. Are comics speculative, volatile, risky? Sure. FOR sure. But to say they can't be an investment is just silly. It's all about perspective, knowledge, risk tolerance and capital - just like stocks, just like property, just like gold and precious gems and VCs pumping silicon valley start ups. Nothing is a sure thing, but EVERYthing has a market with varying degrees of elasticity and every participant in the market has varying degrees of capital and tolerance and ALL markets have unpredictable outside forces. How'd property investments in 2006 turn out? How'd the guy who bought and sold thousands of beanie babies at the right time make out? It's all relative. Flippers are day traders and key holders are slow growthers... Everyone wins some and loses some.

Some golden age comics bring with them a high cost of entry with high likelihood of slow growth with periodic peaks and valleys. Modems bring with them risk, short term pops and long term uncertainty with potential big gains. P&G has paid dividends for over 100 years, that's a solid gold in comics. Google was a modern comic once. However,
If everyone starts making their own soap and stops using the internet tomorrow they're both worthless.

What good are dollars and cell phones to a rain forest civilization who trades in coffee beans and communicates with sign language?

Point is.. Comics ARE, in fact a hobby. But that doesn't mean they can't also be an investment if all factors are considered. It's all the same formula - supply vs demand. Oh, and comics are most certainly tangible.

[possumgrease]

Yeah. I somewhat regret my comment. Of course comics can be an investment and conceptually no different than holding fine art in a portfolio.

[jaspersk]

I think Chew #1 will be worth a
Buttload of money down the line when thry
Finally figure out how to turn it into a
Cartoon tv etc. i sure wish i bought a
Tmnt 1 for $200 first print way back when
I sure wish i could get a hold of a copy
Of chew 1 right now.
Panzerfaust east of west will be worthless
Invincible probably hard to sell
Twd earlier issues will probably hold value
Later inflated books 95 and up
First appearances etc probably not
Valiant-who knows- hard to get variants
Will skyrocket in value/harbinger wars 1:50
Xo kotaki, ninjak 23-26 1:50s.
Divinity????? Britannia?????
Savage 1:50s probably will be $$$
Because the art. Who knows im guessing
I bought almost all the silver age marvels
A few years ago, many of the dcs
Bought tons of marvel dc ratio variants when
They were dirt cheap practically the price of
The regular comic. I miss hastings and their
Black Friday variant blowouts where
1:50,100,150s were 7.99. Im pretty sure i
Have a molina ms marvel variant somewhere from
Them. Probably why they went bankrupt.
Right now is an incredible bull market on
Modern stuff. Dont think it will last.
Seven to eternity #1 70000 copies?
$75-100 each you gotta be kidding me
As weird as remender is way too high.
Anyway ive been wrong tons of times
Put more trust in the guys like greg that
Probably have a better feel for the market.
I also think morning glories is one of the
Now forgotten once hot books that might
Have long term potential.

[greg]

Anyway ive been wrong tons of times
Put more trust in the guys like greg that
Probably have a better feel for the market.

I've been wrong lots of times, too, but I'd have to say my "instinct" to pick up books like Harbinger #1 for under $10 in the late 1990s turned out pretty good.
I was also buying stocks in the late 1990s and they have all been "boring". Yes, they have gone up in value... but so has just about everything else...
it doesn't take a genius to pick a boat and hope it rises right before the tide comes in. Unless there's a "leak" (Enron), every boat rises.
I have no "instinct" for stocks, and no real enjoyment in owning them.

For over 10 years, I worked for a company that is publicly traded with stock as a benefit.
That company stock was $27 in January 2000. It's $28.36 today. No splits, very few dividends.
For every single share of that stock, I'd rather have 3 copies of Harbinger #1 from January 2000 at $9 each.

At no point did I "feel pride in ownership" for having stock... even though it was the company that I worked for...
it had value, was more liquid than comic books, and I could sell it at any time in minutes.

But I didn't "feel" anything for stocks. Valiant gives me "feels".

For those who get rich on stock trades, that's awesome for them, but I can't do it. I tried. I failed.
I also can't will myself to win the lottery, even though those who do win say they always knew they could.
Those are examples of confirmation bias.

If we're going to have situations where only 1-in-100 of somethings are really good deals...
I'd rather it be comics that I care about, than impersonal stocks or foolish scratch off tickets.

No one should invest in anything if they have needs right now. True needs. Not just wants.
But if you have all your needs met, and you still have some money to spend on wants...
it should be something you want, not something someone else says you should have.
It doesn't matter if it's mutual funds or gold coins or comic books or a nice dinner.
If you don't want it, don't buy it. If it has value later (probably not the dinner), that's just a bonus.