4001 AD: Shadowman Discussion

[Brapbrap]

This comic looked nice (the coloring really made me like Robert Gill's art and should have been how they presented his art in BoD), some of the concepts were also very interesting. Unfortunately this book is full of really annoying political commentary, and not the interesting kind of political commentary we saw in Imperium. The bad guy is literally drawn to look like a politician that the writers don't like, and rather than considering his point of view in the story they just make him fully evil with no hint of him having valid points or redeeming qualities, they literally show the humans shooting demon children, there is no grey morality here whatsoever.

It's fine to have black and white good and evil in a normal superhero story, but when you do it in a political story like this one it's just embarrassing and a bit stupid, hope we don't have to read any more of this kind of garbage from valiant. Also hope that if we do see more 4001 Shadowman the story will be handled with a little more class.

[bRai]

I don't mind the loose tie-ins, but I could smell the YA aspect on this book from the jump.

Meh.

[nonplayer]

I ran out of lunch break and haven't read it yet. But the preview skimmed over gave a meh feeling. I wouldn't have gotten it but the shop owner ordered it for me so I didn't want to disappoint him.
I absolutely love Robert Gills work. Not So much Shadowman.

[Bl00dsh0t]

After Operation Deadside I was looking forward to a solo Shadowman book and had high hopes for the 4001 A.D. tie-in. I will be picking up my copy at lunch today from my LCS, by the sounds of things Valiant dropped the ball with this one - i'm still hopeful on enjoying the read

[greg]

There are some good hints in this book about what happens with Earth and Deadside in the 3300 AD timeframe (plus or minus a couple hundred years), but nothing we can point to as absolute. As a result, I think some readers feel unsatisfied. I'm not sure that's fair, though, since the book is a 4001AD one-shot, so they can really only allude to stories that haven't been told from their past (our future).

[grendeljd]

I see why people are getting the 'YA reader' vibe, since on the surface the main characters are teens who end up saving the day within an apocalyptic setting (very popular novel & film plots these days), but I didn't feel that tainted the story for me. The blowhard 1 dimensional 'political' guy was pretty annoying to read but otherwise I enjoyed the tale as an interesting one-shot.

It's a very cool scenario to have a 4001AD town of human survivors tied to a deadside populace cut off from their otherworldly home within the town. I liked all the background elements of this idea, and the 'Deadside War' history behind it that was hinted as well.

Wasn't quite clear at first what really triggered the Shadow Loa to wake up at first, I guess it was the disruption of the hand on the tower. A little odd that the Loa has taken on a female form, I'd like to know more about how that evolution happened. Liked the look of it as a character, and very much liked Rob Gills artwork in this issue. May be some of his best looking work to date at Valiant!

[grendeljd]

If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue, please follow the link;

http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr72/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to any who listen in

[Bl00dsh0t]

My LCS didn't get their shipment today but it should come in tomorrow.

Despite the comments I am looking forward to reading a Shadowman comic again - even if it is a one-shot futuristic tie-in.

[nonplayer]

I ran out of lunch break and haven't read it yet. But the preview skimmed over gave a meh feeling. I wouldn't have gotten it but the shop owner ordered it for me so I didn't want to disappoint him.
I absolutely love Robert Gills work. Not So much Shadowman.

Very under welming

[DirtbagSailor]

I contacted Robert Gill and bought Page #1.

1st appearance of the three main characters.

[slack]

I bought the last page. 1st appearance of Darque's skull. (I assume)
And it's awesome.

[Bl00dsh0t]

Gotta say, I LOVED this book. Excellent as a standalone with loads of potential to be fleshed out in the future. The art and story were so good and generated a genuine atmosphere that I was well engrossed in.

5/5 for me. Just felt like a 'complete' read. Sure it wasn't what I initially hoped for, but I'm glad for it.

[DirtbagSailor]

I bought the last page. 1st appearance of Darque's skull. (I assume)
And it's awesome.

Lol!

I considered that as well, though more for the awesome visual value.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I don't mind the loose tie-ins, but I could smell the YA aspect on this book from the jump.

Meh.

What's YA?

[Dallow Spicer1]

I had low expectations going into this book....Shadowman one of my least favourite characters, not a fan of Gill's art and unsure if Roberts and Houser can do 'serious'.

After reading it....this was Dead Drop bad...not for the same reason but it wasn't good.

It started off well with an interesting premise of the Deadside outpost next to the human town following a failed invasion attempt by the Deadside inhabitants...but it went downhill from there. Not being an American and taking only a vague interest in US politics it seemed like the story was a poorly veiled dig at Donald Trump (aka Tarley) with the Deadside inhabitants representing Mexicans in this political commentary, or am I imagining that comparison?

The lead character Kaia flip flopped on her attitudes towards the Deadsiders so quickly it was comical. Some of the dialogue was what I'd expect to see in a comedy book (like A&A) and did nothing to enhance the peril (or supposed peril) that characters were in.

Gil's art was better than in BOD (due to a different colourist perhaps?) but for me he's still lower tier in the VEI art stable.

I did like the very last panel which I thought was a clever twist but I'm not interested in reading another tale from this creative team any time soon.

Unfortunately it didn't work for me 2/5

[Phoenix8008]

I don't mind the loose tie-ins, but I could smell the YA aspect on this book from the jump.

Meh.

What's YA?

Young Adult. Referencing how similar the story line was to things like The Hunger Games, and Maze Runner, and the rest of the YA franchises lately.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I don't mind the loose tie-ins, but I could smell the YA aspect on this book from the jump.

Meh.

What's YA?

Young Adult. Referencing how similar the story line was to things like The Hunger Games, and Maze Runner, and the rest of the YA franchises lately.

thanks for clarifying!

[jmatt]

I liked the issue, as someone else pointed out it felt like a complete read. Lots of nice backstory tidbits dropped all over the place. This is some of Gill's best work to date.

Would have been better without the political digs, though.

[Phoenix8008]

I know it's called a one-shot for a reason, but I just consciously realized that we got a complete story in one issue here. Not tied to anything else at all really (other than the history of the Shadowman loa). So refreshing to see that it can be done still, here in the age of 4-part-stories-for-EVERYTHING!

[DirtbagSailor]

I will say this;

Some people lean left politically, while other people lean right. No real shock or surprise in this really, as it has always been this way due to the events that shape us, the genetic predispositions we have, social influences (which do change from generation to generation...), and how we (as individuals) develop over time.

Many writers (and artists) with the best of intentions attempt to weave their own views and ideals into their work as a sense of "wish fulfillment" that they are able share with readers and fans. Nothing wrong with this, as all creators do this to varying degrees.

However, as people mature over the years and observe the world around them, (often) they begin to not see the world in such black and white terms as good vs evil. The truth is that while evil men/women most certainly exist, 99.9% of the human population believe that they are doing the "right thing" and are able to justify their actions (even if others disagree with those justifications).

Some writers (Josh Dysart for example) get this concept, and present readers with Harada vs Pete where both (depending on how you see it) are able to be viewed as "heroes" and "villains" as they both have legit arguments that justify their actions and goals. Dysart understands that "world peace" is not as easy or simple as some might hope. Our world is quite complex.

So, when we read stories where the "heroes" forsake their life-long training and focused plans in a matter of seconds, and rally against a one-dimensional political villain who is so transparent that almost anyone could see through his facade like a cheap hairpiece it is a bit of a let down.

Valiant is supposed to be the Game of Thrones of the comic industry. Harada vs Pete; Father vs Rai; X-O vs Primary; these are stories where all sides have understandable justifications and reasons behind their actions. This needs to continue as the average Valiant reader is NOT 14 years old and watching MSNBC for the first time in their life while feeling/acting enlightened.

I enjoy Robert Gill's artwork, and I didn't hate the issue. I do believe that Valiant stories should be a bit "smarter" and not as "YA" as this book was.

[Dallow Spicer1]

So, when we read stories where the "heroes" forsake their life-long training and focused plans in a matter of seconds, and rally against a one-dimensional political villain who is so transparent that almost anyone could see through his facade like a cheap hairpiece it is a bit of a let down.

Valiant is supposed to be the Game of Thrones of the comic industry. Harada vs Pete; Father vs Rai; X-O vs Primary; these are stories where all sides have understandable justifications and reasons behind their actions. This needs to continue as the average Valiant reader is NOT 14 years old and watching MSNBC for the first time in their life while feeling/acting enlightened.

+1 on this & LOL on the cheap hairpiece gag!

[Tony_H]

I do believe that Valiant stories should be a bit "smarter" and not as "YA" as this book was.

Funny you put it that way. Beginning with Dead Drop, I've had the impression that VEI has been overtly setting aside a certain % of their books for a <T-rated crowd. The writers I assumed were hired to work on titles that appeal to </= YA readers were Roberts and Houser; A&A and Faith seem aimed at the same audience as this book (e.g., the saving-puppies sequence, etc.). The new YA slices of the 9-issue pie essentially occupy the spaces formerly given to the Delinquent titles (i.e., the smartass college sophomore stuff).

The company is trying to inculcate brand loyalty at an early age, I figure, and it's not a dumb move. Heck, DC and Disney figured out how to *SQUEE* kids out of grubby little handfuls of booger-encrusted currency nearly a hundred years ago and they've been perfecting their formulae ever since.

[Bl00dsh0t]

I read a lot of novels (including some YA - it's not really my thing) and I didn't pick up on a distinct YA vibe to this. Sure, the protagonists were teens but that's really where the YA coloration ends for me.

YA by nature is a watered down 'adult' genre by which sex/violence/and language are written with a younger audience in mind.

I dug the political elements of this issue but again, don't see this traversing into YA territory, YA fiction can represent any topic much the same as adult fiction. While there may be real-world influence to the political nature of this issue, let's not forget...it was about humans and demons...rarely do the two play nice in any form of fiction.

Each to their own of course, but I enjoyed it

[Sven the Returned]

I will say this;

Some people lean left politically, while other people lean right. No real shock or surprise in this really, as it has always been this way due to the events that shape us, the genetic predispositions we have, social influences (which do change from generation to generation...), and how we (as individuals) develop over time.

Many writers (and artists) with the best of intentions attempt to weave their own views and ideals into their work as a sense of "wish fulfillment" that they are able share with readers and fans. Nothing wrong with this, as all creators do this to varying degrees.

However, as people mature over the years and observe the world around them, (often) they begin to not see the world in such black and white terms as good vs evil. The truth is that while evil men/women most certainly exist, 99.9% of the human population believe that they are doing the "right thing" and are able to justify their actions (even if others disagree with those justifications).

Some writers (Josh Dysart for example) get this concept, and present readers with Harada vs Pete where both (depending on how you see it) are able to be viewed as "heroes" and "villains" as they both have legit arguments that justify their actions and goals. Dysart understands that "world peace" is not as easy or simple as some might hope. Our world is quite complex.

So, when we read stories where the "heroes" forsake their life-long training and focused plans in a matter of seconds, and rally against a one-dimensional political villain who is so transparent that almost anyone could see through his facade like a cheap hairpiece it is a bit of a let down.

Valiant is supposed to be the Game of Thrones of the comic industry. Harada vs Pete; Father vs Rai; X-O vs Primary; these are stories where all sides have understandable justifications and reasons behind their actions. This needs to continue as the average Valiant reader is NOT 14 years old and watching MSNBC for the first time in their life while feeling/acting enlightened.

I enjoy Robert Gill's artwork, and I didn't hate the issue. I do believe that Valiant stories should be a bit "smarter" and not as "YA" as this book was.

Well, Dany is just going full Sue in GOT.

[bygranddesign]

I was really excited about finally reading this .. and I really dug the setup premise in the first couple of pages

But as many others have expressed ... it really devolved into a generic good vs. evil story ... and the we "humans" are the REAL monsters cliche

All the potential moral ambiguity and dilemma was lost ... and never explored to any satisfaction.

The story really became muddled ... And I really have a hard to following what the "lie(s)" were

These are the moral questions that I don't think were asked/explored

1) were there not in fact 3 humans sacrificing their lives to the deadside to power the machines? Were the 3 humans going willingly? Or were they forced? Was it a lottery? Or was it always volunteers?

Of course the Deadside inhabitants are nice to the human sacrifices that are giving up their lives to save their world .. Just because they are nice about it doesn't make it any less horrifying

If the humans refused to sacrifice someone ... would the deadside declare war? or kidnap people to be sacrificed?

The idea that the story would shape it so the deadside was INNOCENT in this type of sacrifice seems dubious ... and far fetched.

And for the story to turned into this onesided perspective was very disappointing

These seem to be all bad choices ... bad people on both sides of these cities ... and maybe it comes down to an unfortunate choice that is bad but for the "greater good".

A oneshot is probably insufficient to really explore this type of complicated story ... and thats why it devolved into this one sided perspective but ultimately its disappointing especially considering it has such potential as a premise