I've started re-reading the Defiant Universe

buff-beardo · Post by **buff-beardo** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:38 pm

Well, I'm finally working on crossing off a complete read of the Defiant Universe from my bucket list! Lol. I read about a 1/3 of them upon their initial release and enjoyed them immensely. Over the years, I completed my collection but just hadn't gotten around to going back and doing a complete read until now. The recent and excellent interview Jmatt and Joe did with Jim Shooter inspired me to go back and read something Shooter. So far, I've read Warriors of Plasm 0-4, the GN "Home for the Holidays", and the Splatterball one-shot. I thought they were excellent! The story contained in these six issues would have taken years nowadays. So nice to get a break from decompressed story telling. I'll post more thoughts and comments as I continue.

OhioValiantNut · Post by **OhioValiantNut** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:26 pm

Looking forward to your thoughts! Defiant has become a big interest of collecting for me.

buff-beardo · Post by **buff-beardo** » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:19 am

One thing that has really struck a chord with me about the early issues of Warriors of Plasm is how much you get from each issue when you take more time than usual to absorb all that is going on in each panel (particularly during the battle scenes). For instance, if you look closely at Warriors of Plasm #4 page 14 panel 4, you'll see in the background a figure clothed in a red tunic and white boots plummeting to his death. It's Magnus Robot Fighter! The same panel also depicts a figure that looks to be Shadowman falling as well. Lol! Another easter egg is clearly visible on page 4 of the 4 page centerfold in this issue. Towards the bottom right is Daredevil perched on a tentacle calmly watching the battle unfold! A bit to the upper left of Daredevil is a guy in a business suit that appears to be leaping for safety only to fall short. Hard to say who this is suppose to be. I assume Bob Layton but that is pure speculation on my part.

Another cool tidbit can be found in the letters colomn of Warrriors of Plasm #2. A fan wrote to Jim Shooter praising his work on Secret Wars. This fan then goes on to say, "I am now 20 years old, a manager at Lost Dutchman Comics, and an aspiring artist ready to ship off to the Joe Kubert School in the fall. My life is now in the world of creating comics. Scary, but one thing makes me feel at ease: You, the very man whose imagination got me into this business.". The letter goes on to praise Jim Shooter for all the inspiration he has provided to this fan and concludes with, "Thank you and good luck! Rick Remender". How cool is that?! Rick Remender went on to have a great career in comics! He's done a ton of work for Marvel and currently writes "Black Science" and "Deadly Class" for Image. "Deadly Class" is one of my favorite monthlies. I think that's really neat.
Well, that's it from me for now. Time to dive into "Dark Dominion" 0-3.

OhioValiantNut · Post by **OhioValiantNut** » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:14 pm

buff-beardo wrote:One thing that has really struck a chord with me about the early issues of Warriors of Plasm is how much you get from each issue when you take more time than usual to absorb all that is going on in each panel (particularly during the battle scenes). For instance, if you look closely at Warriors of Plasm #4 page 14 panel 4, you'll see in the background a figure clothed in a red tunic and white boots plummeting to his death. It's Magnus Robot Fighter! The same panel also depicts a figure that looks to be Shadowman falling as well. Lol! Another easter egg is clearly visible on page 4 of the 4 page centerfold in this issue. Towards the bottom right is Daredevil perched on a tentacle calmly watching the battle unfold! A bit to the upper left of Daredevil is a guy in a business suit that appears to be leaping for safety only to fall short. Hard to say who this suppose to be. I assume Bob Layton but that is pure speculation on my part.
Another cool tidbit can be found in the letters colomn of Warrriors of Plasm #2. A fan wrote to Jim Shooter praising his work on Secret Wars. This fan then goes on to say, "I am now 20 years old, a manager at Lost Dutchman Comics, and an aspiring artist ready to ship off to the Joe Kubert School in the fall. My life is now in the world of creating comics. Scary, but one thing makes me feel at ease: You, the very man whose imagination got me into this business.". The letter goes on to praise Jim Shooter for all the inspiration he has provided to this fan and concludes with, "Thank you and good luck! Rick Remender". How cool is that?! Rick Remender went on to have a great career in comics! He's done a ton of work for Marvel and currently writes "Black Science" and "Deadly Class" for Image. "Deadly Class" is one of my favorite monthlies. I think that's really neat.
Well, that's it from me for now. Time to dive into "Dark Dominion" 0-3.

Those are big easter eggs ... time to dig my copies out!

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:33 pm

It's unfortunate that Warriors of Plasm got lost in the shuffle of the lawsuit, the weird promotional stunts and the fustercluck that was the comics industry of the 90's because I think it's one of the most innovative, well written and well thought-out series of that time. Definitely one of Shooter's finest moments.

grendeljd · Post by **grendeljd** » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:32 am

Now I'm getting tempted to pull out my Dark Dominion comics for a re-read. Actually, I don't have them all - might have to do some shopping!

OhioValiantNut · Post by **OhioValiantNut** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:58 pm

Mail Call!

I give you the pride of my Defiant Comics collection: The Birth of the Defiant Universe #1 (688 of 1000).

... well, I'm glad that monkey is off of my back.

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:25 pm

I got one of those as well.

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:08 pm

Do I have one? I cannot remember!

Congrats, those are pretty sweet.

buff-beardo · Post by **buff-beardo** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 4:01 pm

Congrats to OhioValiantNut and Cyberstrike on owning a copy of "The Birth of the Defiant Universe".

That is a very tough book to get these days unless one is willing to spend alot of cash or just get super lucky. That is the only Defiant comic I am missing. One of these days, I hope to stumble across one at a reasonable price. It is on my dead universe grail list along side "Miracle on Broadway", but I think I missed my window on both books around the turn of the millennium. I give myself a 0.01% chance of ever owning either of them at this point, but I embrace Lloyd Christmas's attitude when it comes to percentages. Lol!

possumgrease · Post by **possumgrease** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:11 pm

Defiant really was great. Such cool ideas. I need to re-read those again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:52 pm

OhioValiantNut wrote:
buff-beardo wrote:One thing that has really struck a chord with me about the early issues of Warriors of Plasm is how much you get from each issue when you take more time than usual to absorb all that is going on in each panel (particularly during the battle scenes). For instance, if you look closely at Warriors of Plasm #4 page 14 panel 4, you'll see in the background a figure clothed in a red tunic and white boots plummeting to his death. It's Magnus Robot Fighter! The same panel also depicts a figure that looks to be Shadowman falling as well. Lol! Another easter egg is clearly visible on page 4 of the 4 page centerfold in this issue. Towards the bottom right is Daredevil perched on a tentacle calmly watching the battle unfold! A bit to the upper left of Daredevil is a guy in a business suit that appears to be leaping for safety only to fall short. Hard to say who this suppose to be. I assume Bob Layton but that is pure speculation on my part.
Another cool tidbit can be found in the letters colomn of Warrriors of Plasm #2. A fan wrote to Jim Shooter praising his work on Secret Wars. This fan then goes on to say, "I am now 20 years old, a manager at Lost Dutchman Comics, and an aspiring artist ready to ship off to the Joe Kubert School in the fall. My life is now in the world of creating comics. Scary, but one thing makes me feel at ease: You, the very man whose imagination got me into this business.". The letter goes on to praise Jim Shooter for all the inspiration he has provided to this fan and concludes with, "Thank you and good luck! Rick Remender". How cool is that?! Rick Remender went on to have a great career in comics! He's done a ton of work for Marvel and currently writes "Black Science" and "Deadly Class" for Image. "Deadly Class" is one of my favorite monthlies. I think that's really neat.
Well, that's it from me for now. Time to dive into "Dark Dominion" 0-3.

Those are big easter eggs ... time to dig my copies out!

Nice!

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:54 pm

I've really enjoyed this thread. I hope we get a lot more posts in it.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:13 pm

I'm finally setting out to read all Defiants. I'll come up with a reading order this weekend. Meanwhile I'm going to read Warriors of Plasm The Collected Edition. It includes The Zero Issue, The Sedation Agenda, and Splatterball.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:22 pm

I liked WoP. For some reason I could not get into DD.

What I really liked was the Broadway universe. I remember liking EVERY book.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:37 pm

I really liked Powers That Be/ Star Seed.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:39 am

In Warriors of Plasm 5, page 7, there's a character called Prudence. I assume that's the character from
Prudence and Caution. If so, I wonder if that's the first appearance of that character...

myron · Post by **myron** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:00 am

Elveen wrote:I liked WoP. For some reason I could not get into DD.

What I really liked was the Broadway universe. I remember liking EVERY book.

+1

pretty much resemble this remark

Crow331 · Post by **Crow331** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:35 am

I miss Dark Dominion

Reminds me a bit of the Constantine movie (never read the comics) starring Keanu Reeves, which I also thoroughly enjoyed

kevinbastos · Post by **kevinbastos** » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:08 am

Getting around to finishing my read of Dark Key and Dynamite Gold Key (finally!) and then plan on catching up on Valiant now - and then back over to Defiant.

Finished collecting all (except Broadway) and plan on reading at some time.

Then will see about what's next. Anyone else reading this again?

brucehartshorn · Post by **brucehartshorn** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:13 pm

If anyone is looking for the Defiant cards from that era, here is my master collection:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DARK-DOMINION-A ... SwB-1YuvF2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tarheelmarine · Post by **tarheelmarine** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:41 pm

buff-beardo wrote:One thing that has really struck a chord with me about the early issues of Warriors of Plasm is how much you get from each issue when you take more time than usual to absorb all that is going on in each panel (particularly during the battle scenes). For instance, if you look closely at Warriors of Plasm #4 page 14 panel 4, you'll see in the background a figure clothed in a red tunic and white boots plummeting to his death. It's Magnus Robot Fighter! The same panel also depicts a figure that looks to be Shadowman falling as well. Lol! Another easter egg is clearly visible on page 4 of the 4 page centerfold in this issue. Towards the bottom right is Daredevil perched on a tentacle calmly watching the battle unfold! A bit to the upper left of Daredevil is a guy in a business suit that appears to be leaping for safety only to fall short. Hard to say who this is suppose to be. I assume Bob Layton but that is pure speculation on my part.
Another cool tidbit can be found in the letters colomn of Warrriors of Plasm #2. A fan wrote to Jim Shooter praising his work on Secret Wars. This fan then goes on to say, "I am now 20 years old, a manager at Lost Dutchman Comics, and an aspiring artist ready to ship off to the Joe Kubert School in the fall. My life is now in the world of creating comics. Scary, but one thing makes me feel at ease: You, the very man whose imagination got me into this business.". The letter goes on to praise Jim Shooter for all the inspiration he has provided to this fan and concludes with, "Thank you and good luck! Rick Remender". How cool is that?! Rick Remender went on to have a great career in comics! He's done a ton of work for Marvel and currently writes "Black Science" and "Deadly Class" for Image. "Deadly Class" is one of my favorite monthlies. I think that's really neat.
Well, that's it from me for now. Time to dive into "Dark Dominion" 0-3.

I just picked up Warriors of Plasm 1,4-6, 9 in the 50 cents bin. I also enjoyed reading that letter from Rick Remender.

I miss the days of letter columns and editorials. I've enjoyed reading about the fight between Defiant and Marvel.

magnus20009 · Post by **magnus20009** » Sun May 31, 2020 12:28 pm

StarBrand wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:52 pm
OhioValiantNut wrote:
buff-beardo wrote:One thing that has really struck a chord with me about the early issues of Warriors of Plasm is how much you get from each issue when you take more time than usual to absorb all that is going on in each panel (particularly during the battle scenes). For instance, if you look closely at Warriors of Plasm #4 page 14 panel 4, you'll see in the background a figure clothed in a red tunic and white boots plummeting to his death. It's Magnus Robot Fighter! The same panel also depicts a figure that looks to be Shadowman falling as well. Lol! Another easter egg is clearly visible on page 4 of the 4 page centerfold in this issue. Towards the bottom right is Daredevil perched on a tentacle calmly watching the battle unfold! A bit to the upper left of Daredevil is a guy in a business suit that appears to be leaping for safety only to fall short. Hard to say who this suppose to be. I assume Bob Layton but that is pure speculation on my part.
Another cool tidbit can be found in the letters colomn of Warrriors of Plasm #2. A fan wrote to Jim Shooter praising his work on Secret Wars. This fan then goes on to say, "I am now 20 years old, a manager at Lost Dutchman Comics, and an aspiring artist ready to ship off to the Joe Kubert School in the fall. My life is now in the world of creating comics. Scary, but one thing makes me feel at ease: You, the very man whose imagination got me into this business.". The letter goes on to praise Jim Shooter for all the inspiration he has provided to this fan and concludes with, "Thank you and good luck! Rick Remender". How cool is that?! Rick Remender went on to have a great career in comics! He's done a ton of work for Marvel and currently writes "Black Science" and "Deadly Class" for Image. "Deadly Class" is one of my favorite monthlies. I think that's really neat.
Well, that's it from me for now. Time to dive into "Dark Dominion" 0-3.

Those are big easter eggs ... time to dig my copies out!
Nice!

I just started rereading Defiant today and came across this. Did a search to see if it had been noticed before. Pretty cool to see someone living what they dreamed to become.

magnus20009 · Post by **magnus20009** » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:56 am

Well I just finished reading every Defiant comic for the first time. I had only read my binder of Plasm 0 before that I can recall. Usually I only read books once I have a complete run and somehow I never got around to reading Defiant once I had completed the collection.

Overall I have to say it was a worthwhile read but quality varies substantially. You definitely should have all the titles and read them in order as the characters and stories are constantly crossing over (and yes this means having to read War Dancer). I did have three major issues though as the universe developed which really detracted from the whole. First I absolutely hated War Dancer and they built the universe around him. Second I hated the whole concept that they incorporated after he was brought in that the Org of Plasm was the dream world of earth. I thought this was a terrible idea and things went down hill for the line from then on. (Not to mention Gaiman was already doing Sandman over at DC at the time so it felt repetitive). Around the same time Nudge completely changed as a character as well and this did not work well. You can see why the sales started to fall with the introduction of the dream world concept on top of the quantum realm.

As for the actual books:

1) Plasm 0-13, GN & Glory 0- I loved Warriors of Plasm. I thought it was very innovative and was a really good read up until the last two issues. I am disappointed that this book was canceled. It had a lot of promise and Shooter and Lampham did a great job.

2) Dark Dominion 0-10 - I was fairly "meh" on this book which might be sacrilegious to Defiant fans. I just couldn't get into the quantum realm ruled by fear concept. It made everyone seem weak.

3) Good Guys 1.5, 1-9 - Was an average series, neither particularly good or bad. I enjoyed the art in some issues.

4) Charlemagne 0-5 - The back story issue that started this series off was perhaps my favorite single issue the company put out. Became unreadable once it got tied in to War Dancer to the point time would be better spent doing things besides reading this title.

5) War Dancer 1-6 - Hated the concept, hated all the issues. I think this book caused Defiant to go off the rails since War Dancer was who the universe was being built around when they should have continued to build off Plasm like they originally did. I'll include the Origin of the Defiant Universe here too as it lays out the ridiculous dream concept.

6) Dogs of War 1-5 - First two issues are basically Plasm issues and were great. Last 3 issues were OK although the main protagonist "Shooter" doesn't really seem to have an issue he has killed 200 people on his quest to be a hero which seems fairly contrary to his personality previously.

7) Prudence and Caution 1-2 - are also basically Plasm issues. I really wish they had issue three of the series created as it stops mid-arc and you never find out why Prudence was the most feared criminal? on Plasm.

Since I am still forced to be locked up at home due to Covid-19 perhaps I will read Broadway next as I have never read that. (Prior to Defiant I read the complete IDW TMNT series and mini-series - highly highly recommend it, I was surprised how much I enjoyed it).

Sunlight on Snow · Post by **Sunlight on Snow** » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:39 am

Ok ok ok......I'm gonna hunt down these Defiant issue as well now.

The only one I already have is one with text only which is why I never really bothered picking up the other ones.

Is this reading order recommended? Like WD #2 before WD #1? (Seems odd?!?)

viewtopic.php?p=527555#p527555

Is this a complete list? Has the trade something that isn't in the floppies (because it's listed)?

http://www.mikesamazingworld.com/mikes/ ... er=Defiant

Damn, so much more reading to do.....

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