Ninjak #13 Discussion

Phoenix8008 · Post by **Phoenix8008** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:20 am

Nobody else got this started yet? Fine, I'll do the honors.

A really good issue, solid art, a great wrap up for this story arc, and some very interesting questions that we are left with by the end. It's the questions that stick with me the most...

Set up: When Ninjak throws Magpie/Shadowman/Jack through the portal back to Earth, Jack is clearly seperated physically from the loa since we are shown Ninjak standing between the two of them. It seems to be pulled along in his wake though, and slams into Ninjak's back on it's way to follow Jack. Right after that, we see Jack falling through the portal with only half of his face covered by the Shadowman mask.

Q1) Is the mask melting away because they are transitioning back to the material plane of Earth from the Deadside? A1) No reason why it should have to that I can think of, since we've seen in previous Shadoman stories that the mask isn't a physical thing he carries around with him - it manifests when he's fully under the influence of the loa in 'Shadowman' mode.

Q2) Might it be possible that some of the Shadowman loa got sucked into Ninjak when it was slamming into them as they went through the portal back to Earth? Ninjak has been described as a magical being to some degree, and has had contact with Maaster Darque as well. That might be reason enough for the loa to infect him some also? Ninjak's face was covered by his tech gear mask, but if it wasn't, would we have seen the other half of the Shadowman mask on him? A2) Only the future will tell if Ninjak is infected or not, but we know that ALL of the loa didn't go into Ninjak because we see at least some of it with Jack in the cell at the end.

Q3) Punk Mambo and 'her' loa. After summoning and joining with the loa of her own free will, then trying to tell Jack that there's no secret to getting rid of them when you want to, in the end she 'decides' to keep the loa? Really??

Is it just me, or does that sound a bit like an addict claiming they can stop anytime they want to? A3) Maybe she really is in control and could let it go if she chose to. Meta-wise, it's cool for the character to gain access to some better 'powers' than sniffing glue out of recently dead heads to have divination visions. Or maybe this is how loa possession starts, with the human asking for it at the beginning and thinking they can drop it whenever, but then being 'convinced' that they want to keep it instead, until it's finally latched on so tight that you can't really get rid of it when you finally really want to, like Jack/Shadowman.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:21 am

Pretty solid close out to the story. I think I would have liked a little more definitive sense of Jack being back in the land of the living, but I guess that will still remain to be seen. I do like that the overall sense of MI-6 holding Jack, rather than sending him back to the Deadside like Collin suggested, is that it will do more harm than good. On to Siege of King's Castle!

By the by... We saw them take Fakir back. Did they leave Sanguine in The Deadside, or did I miss something?

Phoenix8008 · Post by **Phoenix8008** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:31 am

I beat you by no more than a couple minutes with my post on this...

I guess great minds think alike... and so do ours!

DirtbagSailor · Post by **DirtbagSailor** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:36 am

My published review.

http://all-comic.com/2016/ninjak-13/

jeremycoe · Post by **jeremycoe** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:56 am

Great issue. I think they've set up Jack to be used by MI-6 kind of like a Suicide Squad in the future. It will be interesting to see where Jack shows up next.

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:31 pm

A great wrap up to the arc. It speaks for itself.

I'm still wondering where that Primal island-god disappeared to from last issue... just kinda got sucked up into the heavens through some kind of portal.

agent_graves · Post by **agent_graves** » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:33 pm

It was a pretty good ending to the arc, the art was solid throughout, PM got some shine, and some more continuity added to her bio. My only gripe, Jack got jobbed, then locked up. Guess will see how that goes...

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:34 pm

I think it's interesting that PM could control her Loa and Jack didn't even know they could be controlled. Perhaps she will be taking on more of a Nettie role.

GammaJosh · Post by **GammaJosh** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:26 pm

As much as I loved the arc overall, I thought the ending had a major flaw. Namely that the supposedly huge cliff-hanger ending of "End Times" and Darque controlling Shadowman is ultimately wrapped up by Ninjak kicking Jack through a portal. Totally anti-climactic. It undercut the ending of "End Times" and also totally undercut the plot of the Juan Jose Ryp backup stories where Jack is working on a way to get out of the ropes. Add that to Master Darque getting turned into a tree after a weak one and a half issue return in Book of Death #3 and #4, and I can't help but feel that a totally cool setup was largely squandered. Granted I did love the whole "Magpie" idea, I just didn't care for the angle that the ropes were just psychosomatic and Jack could have left anytime. Between that and letting the guy get eaten in the back up story, I feel that Jack is much more likely to get killed off and replaced by a new Shadowman now. I felt he could have redeemed himself after the events of End Times, but he looks even more like a weak unlikeable *SQUEE* now. Also this effectively kills any opportunity to do a proper sequel to our Shadowman album, unless we just totally ignore the cliff-hanger ending or somehow gloss over it.

All that being said, loved the writing, loved the art, and I agree with the OP about all those questions being very interesting.

MC Kriet · Post by **MC Kriet** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:02 pm

Really enjoyed this issue and the art was fantastic as usual. I'm still a bit puzzled about how Ninjak came to the conclusion that Shadowman's ropes were psychosomatic. That part of the story seemed a bit weird and rushed to me, like just an easy way to get Jack back to the world of the living. It's an interesting idea but it just didn't seem to fit with what had already been set in this story and the backup one.

Also found it strange that Ninjak said Jack could have left at anytime but then told Jack he didn't know if pushing him through the portal would have killed him. Other than those tiny mysteries I think this has been the best arc yet and I'm really looking forward to The Siege of King's Castle.

Sheikhaljabal · Post by **Sheikhaljabal** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:34 pm

Does anybody know who were Magpie's prisoners (besides Sanguine and Fakir)? There are two others whom I did not recognize.

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:08 pm

GammaJosh wrote: I just didn't care for the angle that the ropes were just psychosomatic and Jack could have left anytime.

Agreed. It was a cool angle right up until the moment it was rendered moot. Even a better explanation about the powers of Darque to cloud the minds of his victims would have sufficed.

hunter_peterson · Post by **hunter_peterson** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:04 am

MC Kriet wrote:Really enjoyed this issue and the art was fantastic as usual. I'm still a bit puzzled about how Ninjak came to the conclusion that Shadowman's ropes were psychosomatic. That part of the story seemed a bit weird and rushed to me, like just an easy way to get Jack back to the world of the living. It's an interesting idea but it just didn't seem to fit with what had already been set in this story and the backup one.

Also found it strange that Ninjak said Jack could have left at anytime but then told Jack he didn't know if pushing him through the portal would have killed him. Other than those tiny mysteries I think this has been the best arc yet and I'm really looking forward to The Siege of King's Castle.

He was narrating from the present when he was being debriefed at MI6. At the time he didn't know what would happen if he kicked Jack through the portal. The captions, coming from later, know that he survived and assume the ropes were just a suggestion.

FormerReader · Post by **FormerReader** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:01 pm

Sorry this is going to be a bit of a rant. I really enjoyed the rest of this arc, but this was a lousy ending. So basically Shadowman got thrown around by Ninjak and Punk Mambo and then we find out he is too incompetent to remove the ropes that bind him. Punk Mambo can figure out how to control a Loa, but Jack cannot? How does this leave the reader feeling for Jack? Shouldn't the revelation have been that Darque was controlling him using the loa?

Is Jack black or white? Why is it depending on the artist his appearance varies so much? It took me a minute to figure out that was Jack in the prison garb.

This was bad writing. I like Jack even less now.

QUARTZ · Post by **QUARTZ** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:34 am

I'm just glad this arc is wrapped up I did not enjoy the journey to the Deadside. I'd rather Ninjak keep focused on the spy/espionage side of the Valiant universe.

Dallow Spicer1 · Post by **Dallow Spicer1** » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:08 pm

QUARTZ wrote:I'm just glad this arc is wrapped up I did not enjoy the journey to the Deadside. I'd rather Ninjak keep focused on the spy/espionage side of the Valiant universe.

+1

Although I did enjoy this issue more than the previous issues of arc I'm glad Ninjak will get back to his regular stories. Good wrap up and satisfactory way of bringing Jack back into the mix. Punk Mambo's character is god inning more interesting but Kindt has her 'English accent' all over the place with the words she uses!

I do like Braithwaite's art but really didn't like how he drew the Loa, they reminded me of the Goo monster from Ghostbusters, very 'un scary'!

Overall I enjoyed the book but this has been my least favourite Ninjak arc 3.75/5

grendeljd · Post by **grendeljd** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:43 pm

If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue (short & sweet, it was the only book to discuss!), please follow the link;

http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr55/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to any who listen in

grendeljd · Post by **grendeljd** » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:57 pm

I think the idea that Jack could have left the Deadside at any time is just an extra notch of cruelty on Darques part - would there have ever been a reason for Jack to challenge that? I suppose it kind of falls apart when you think about the monk figure who told him to do something else entirley than just leave to be free of the ropes...

However, he was put in perpetual pain if he didn't obey the impulse to collect artifacts, that does things to a human mind that I cannot personally imagine, but I suspect would drive an individual to do whatever it takes to make it stop... He struggled as best he could against it, but he gave in to weakness.

This issue certainly put him in an even darker position than I would have expected, I don't even know how he can begin to find any level of redemption after seeing where he is at.

jeremycoe · Post by **jeremycoe** » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:42 am

Could Jack have escaped the ropes before Darque's defeat? The events of Book of Death could have changed things, without Jack knowing. Maybe this was addressed, I'll need to reread the arc.

Watchtower · Post by **Watchtower** » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:58 am

So I'm once again catching up after spending a couple months off Valiant, and I find that it's this series that's giving me the most to think about. Mainly because of how it concerns our good ol' friend Jack Boniface.

When the End Times mini had ended, I had called it a textbook case of character assassination. I had said that characters that had done less than what Jack did were considered completely and totally unsalvageable, and that Valiant might as well get rid of Jack and go with someone else. That stain still lingers over Jack as a character, but here I've felt it better to consider it less like the rapid fall of Shadowman and more like an extended backstory to the tortured soul called Magpie. That approach doesn't forgive the missteps made with Shadowman over the years, but it does make his role in this particular arc more bearable.

What I like in this issue is that Kindt seems to pin down Jack's big character flaw: his lack of willpower. The Loa he has is a particularly powerful corrupting force, but even then he's still a doormat. He accepts that he had to kill his father, he accepts that there was no way to break Darque's ropes (until someone else explicitly gave him a target), he accepts that he has to let his Loa corrupt him in order to use its power. He is a victim, more than anything else, of his own ignorance and stupidity.

But what really has me curious right now is Bloodshot Reborn #10, where Bloodshot, 30 years in the future, refers to Jack as "the greatest man he's ever known." I figure that Valiant has a redemption arc set for Boniface, since they are insistent on keeping him around. However, between what we've seen here and Bloodshot's line, the bar seems to be set pretty high.

Sheikhaljabal · Post by **Sheikhaljabal** » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:52 pm

What about Magpie's prisoners (besides Fakir and Sanguine? Does anybody know who they were?

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:51 am

Sheikhaljabal wrote:What about Magpie's prisoners (besides Fakir and Sanguine? Does anybody know who they were?

They briefly showed them in issue 12. They we're the various residents of Deadside who possessed some magical connection either through an object or themselves. Each represented something the Magpie needed in order to break Darque's spell.

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:44 pm

Now that I think about it, weren't those the same glowing ropes he strung up his four prisoners with? I seem to recall they looked similar but I don't have the book in front of me. If so, that doesn't make much sense.

Sheikhaljabal · Post by **Sheikhaljabal** » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:56 pm

THOSE ropes. Maybe he was going for something? I subscribe to the redemption theory but as B: R. showed us, he will be always on the brink of crushing defeat. So those two are new, yet undescribed and nameless characters. I'm quite curious to read his 4001 special.
Ninjak will become the highest numbered solo title after X-O's demise. Insert a decent computer game here.

mkb28 · Post by **mkb28** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:08 am

Finally read this arc and I have to say the "Deadside" is my least favorite part of the Valiant universe. Just can't get into it very much at all. Looking forward to Ninjak back in the spy world as another poster suggested.

Mkb28

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