Wrath of The Eternal Warrior #2 Discussion

[jmatt]

Meh.

Is Venditti gonna take this somewhere, or what? I was patient with the first issue. But this is getting very boring very quickly.

There's gonna be wrath somewhere in here, yes? This was like a clone of the first issue, just without the tour of the five senses.

If I was a new reader, I would stop at this issue. Even the art is blah.

[tiredofmyself]

Thanks for the comment! It confirmed my fear.

[Brapbrap]

this issue was better, the way the paradise realm works is actually explained now and that page of him jumping down into the demons was gorgeous.

[Bl00dsh0t]

I actually liked this issue, though I think it requires a reread to fully appreciate where Venditi is going with this. Its very much a slow build which I think will pay off soon, perhaps next issue if not the next arc. Humongous looks like a pretty cool villian.

[omega_override]

I really hope Vendetti is going somewhere with this, because a slow build up to absolutely nothing could be disastrous for this book

[hunter_peterson]

I'm actually really liked this. I reckon we'll get twelve issues of home battling his way through the Deadside challenges that pave the way to life. And I'm cool with that- the fantasy setting is epic and really works well with the character. Seeing what actually happens to him when he dies is a joy. I mean, his family is there andmasks him to die again soon! So bittersweet!

[jmatt]

And I'm cool with that- the fantasy setting is epic and really works well with the character. Seeing what actually happens to him when he dies is a joy. I mean, his family is there andmasks him to die again soon! So bittersweet!

Yeah but we saw all of that last issue. The concept has moved incrementally and the story not much at all. At this point, he should be in the clutches of Humongous and on the slab. That would be a good cliffhanger ending.

[agent_graves]

This is definitely a slow build, not the best way to start a new ongoing. It had some good character moments between Gilad and his children, some heartfelt stuff. The art seemed rushed in some panels.

[grendeljd]

I enjoyed everything we got in this issue with regards to great character moments and a hint of foreshadowing, but do agree with the few voices here regarding a bit of a slow pace. The art is fantastic, I'm really digging the style for this series.

[grendeljd]

If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue (& Ivar, Timewalker #12, & Imperium #11), please follow the link;

http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr45/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to any who listen in

[hunter_peterson]

And I'm cool with that- the fantasy setting is epic and really works well with the character. Seeing what actually happens to him when he dies is a joy. I mean, his family is there andmasks him to die again soon! So bittersweet!

Yeah but we saw all of that last issue. The concept has moved incrementally and the story not much at all. At this point, he should be in the clutches of Humongous and on the slab. That would be a good cliffhanger ending.

That's true. This book moves about as fast as XO does. It'll probably start to annoy me eventually.

[jmatt]

Couple of observations:

1) By 1000 BC, Gilad already has two scars. How's it work? One scar each time he goes up against the Immortal Enemy? Or is it not every time?

2) They spend five full pages on Leena's death. That's almost a quarter of the issue so someone can expire and be put on a funeral pyre.

I get it. It's supposed to be poignant. It is for Gilad, but we readers don't know a thing about her. If you wanna make me feel something for a character, I'd rather see some kind of conflict and interaction beyond making lunch for Gillie and the kids.

An action sequence where she fights a villain to save her child and is killed heroically as Gilad watches helplessly (and maybe gets a little Wrath) would make me feel more than a few last gasps and a fire. That's worth five pages.

Maternal instinct + action + villainy + sense of helplessness + rage > last gasp due to natural causes + sense of loss

3) So, I guess Gilad's little after-life Valhalla moves in real time along with the Earth; it's not some timeless netherworld. If it was, we'd see future kids and wives, no?

4) I'll re-iterate a point made on the VCR podcast, which I didn't even think about until they mentioned it. Mitu and Xaran, Gilad's other offspring, are not there. I know we saw Mitu die, I don't remember Xaran's present disposition in the canon. VCR postulated that because they served the Houses of the Pak run, that they are beyond Gilad's after-life retreat. A point worth mentioning here.

5) I liked the art more this time around.

[BugsySig]

Xaran could still be alive. She was at the end of the opening Pak arc.

Mitu died but seemed to have been resurrected as the Sword of the Dead. A plot point never followed up on.

[krylox]

Couple of observations:
...

2) They spend five full pages on Leena's death. That's almost a quarter of the issue so someone can expire and be put on a funeral pyre.

I get it. It's supposed to be poignant. It is for Gilad, but we readers don't know a thing about her. If you wanna make me feel something for a character, I'd rather see some kind of conflict and interaction beyond making lunch for Gillie and the kids.

An action sequence where she fights a villain to save her child and is killed heroically as Gilad watches helplessly (and maybe gets a little Wrath) would make me feel more than a few last gasps and a fire. That's worth five pages.

Maternal instinct + action + villainy + sense of helplessness + rage > last gasp due to natural causes + sense of loss
...

good point. i was also a bit put off by the more decorative style (over substance) in storytelling and the overall pacing, which is obviously aimed to be read as a trade. but this is a venditti trademark. having said that... i totally dig the art by raul allen, i think it's very intense and it stayed with me, something which happens very rarely with mainstream comics. i also like 16-panel grid and the overall layouts and the details. but yeah, it's not screaming: buy me monthly, so i'm tempted to switch to trades after the first 4 issues.

i know i sound like a broken recorder, but... the goal for valiant is to produce one remarkable piece of sequential storytelling, which can later be sold as a movie. and i have to say, it's quite a cinematic beginning and has a lot of potential. it will take another 10 issues to see if it turns out to be a great epic or not.

[Brapbrap]

i dont think the pak stuff can even be considered canon anymore, nobody except for van lente will ever acknowledge it

[hunter_peterson]

Couple of observations:
...

2) They spend five full pages on Leena's death. That's almost a quarter of the issue so someone can expire and be put on a funeral pyre.

I get it. It's supposed to be poignant. It is for Gilad, but we readers don't know a thing about her. If you wanna make me feel something for a character, I'd rather see some kind of conflict and interaction beyond making lunch for Gillie and the kids.

An action sequence where she fights a villain to save her child and is killed heroically as Gilad watches helplessly (and maybe gets a little Wrath) would make me feel more than a few last gasps and a fire. That's worth five pages.

Maternal instinct + action + villainy + sense of helplessness + rage > last gasp due to natural causes + sense of loss
...

good point. i was also a bit put off by the more decorative style (over substance) in storytelling and the overall pacing, which is obviously aimed to be read as a trade. but this is a venditti trademark. having said that... i totally dig the art by raul allen, i think it's very intense and it stayed with me, something which happens very rarely with mainstream comics. i also like 16-panel grid and the overall layouts and the details. but yeah, it's not screaming: buy me monthly, so i'm tempted to switch to trades after the first 4 issues.

i know i sound like a broken recorder, but... the goal for valiant is to produce one remarkable piece of sequential storytelling, which can later be sold as a movie. and i have to say, it's quite a cinematic beginning and has a lot of potential. it will take another 10 issues to see if it turns out to be a great epic or not.

I agree, this seems like it would make a great movie when complete. Like how the first mega-arc of XO- the origin and Planet Death- would also make a great movie. This one would be especially cool as you could kill Gilad off and then have a sequel with him dead!

[Phoenix8008]

i dont think the pak stuff can even be considered canon anymore, nobody except for van lente will ever acknowledge it

Which is too bad, kinda. I actually liked the big picture set up that Pak created. The organization of the Houses and the Swords serving them was a good framework in my opinion. If he had just put two story arcs together that actually had some connection from one to the other, I still say it might not have ended there.

[jmatt]

Which is too bad, kinda. I actually liked the big picture set up that Pak created. The organization of the Houses and the Swords serving them was a good framework in my opinion.

While I had issues with the execution, I agree that it was a novel framework to introduce more factions and an opportunity to have different characters fill the roles of Swords.

[erwinrafael]

It's like they are making an Einser-bait comic, but only Raul Allen is delivering.

[Tony_H]

The creators are doing something new with this series, both in terms of content and style, and it seems like some folks are doomsaying it 2 issues in. Give 'em a chance! I like what I've read so far because it isn't the same old, same old action character in action scene after scene.

[Donovan]

I wish they would have packaged both up as a single, oversized first issue.

[erwinrafael]

The creators are doing something new with this series, both in terms of content and style, and it seems like some folks are doomsaying it 2 issues in. Give 'em a chance! I like what I've read so far because it isn't the same old, same old action character in action scene after scene.

I appreciate the craft being put in here, but Venditti's pacing is really off. Fraction and Aja did this type of storytelling in Hawkeye. Vaughan and Avery also did in Saga. They both did very very well. This type of storytelling technique is really effective for slow-paced stories, but Venditti's story is not just slow but meandering. That's my problem with it.

[Tony_H]

I hear what you're saying about the difference between "slow" and "meandering", but I don't agree that Wrath is off-focus for this reason: Aram and Ivar have had an awful lot of ink dedicated to fleshing out their backstories, but Gilad hasn't (especially if we discount the first Pak arc, which it seems we ought to do at this point), and he's an "eternal" warrior who's regenerated from death on innumerable occasions over a great stretch of time. The Wrath crew picked into a gold-vein for a huge amount of stories by focusing on what happens in the interstices between regenerations (an aspect of the character's fundamental traits that the BBC geniuses writing Dr. Who should've clued into a while back), so I'm reading this series as if it's "Sandman Meets Conan", or vice versa, for whatever that opinion's worth!

[erwinrafael]

I found it meandering because VDitti did it for two straight issues. No problem with fleshing out Gilad's background. I was ok with issue 1. I am ok with issue 2. But put the two together, it becomes meandering.

Among VEI writers, FVL was the master of pacing. In Ivar, Timewalker, for example, he has slow character-focused reflective issues. He never wrote them back-to-back. VDitti often has a problem with pacing because he goes slow for three issues and then crams a lot of action in a final issue (think Planet Death and Book of Death).

[jmatt]

Give 'em a chance!

Sorry if my review came off harsh. But they are relaunching a title with the words "wrath" and "warrior" in the title. If they want to pick up new readers (which is the sole purpose of a new series for Gilad) then they gotta give us more to chew on than this.