The direction of Doctor Mirage

[tiredofmyself]

Apologize if posted at wrong sub forum.

I want to say something about the direction Doctor Mirage seems to heading to.

During her debut in Shadowman, she's this bad-*SQUEE* TV star who would go against Master Darque with our hero. She is also the kind who adeptly helps solve our hero's problem and then charges for fees and also adopts the dog. In a word, she's a badass like the late Geomancer, or Livewire, with her own quirks and personality.

Then we have the Doctor Mirage mini. The premise is understandable, but she seems extraordinary clueless about what she's doing. The book explains that she's not familiar with the Dead Side, but to me she's not familiar with anything about supernatural genre at all! She's like a scientist who does some wards and glyphs and ghost-busting and now when real supernatural threat appears, she seems rather inept!

And now according to Book of Death, we'll soon see some funny status quo changes where she and Hwen changes place.

I mean, it's like Gilad went out of his way to stick with his axe, or the whole Geomancer affair all over again.

(Also is Punk Mambo really that popular? I found her to be the typical Peter Milligan magic characters, as seen in his Justice League Dark. Ok for the story. Rather generic. and very unlikable.)

[hunter_peterson]

Are you saying her early characterization doesn't align with the current one? Because there really was very little detail early on and her working onstage at some point doesn't preclude her later not. If anything it just adds more facets to her character. Personally, I hope to see some of the performer part of her life on panel soon, because that's a quite different tack for the character and it'd be cool to see her in such a wildly different context.

And her specific lack of knowledge was on the inner workings of the Deadside- she had an expansive and deep knowledge of how the supernatural interacts with the mundane world surpassing the inhumanly old secret cabal of mystic spies, but she had never gone on a journey to Deadside because of the dangers of existing there while alive. If anything that's like being an amazing NASA scientist who doesn't want to be an astronaut. It says little about her skills, only her experiences. Which the mini also showed include fighting supernatural threats for years- just on human turf.

All of which makes the whole reversal of the Doctors Mirage coming up more interesting. Everything about the way the characters operate will be turned on its head, so that should be fun!

Just a question: is it that you dislike the direction the character is going or more that you disliked the miniseries?

[hunter_peterson]

Also I like Punk Mambo, but Valiant seems to like her more. She's pretty much the only positive legacy for Milligan's run, aside from arguably the expanded list of Loas and art shift (both of which I think would have happened eventually regardless).

[ChiptheRipper]

Valiant is pushing really hard for Punk Mambo to become "their Hellblazer", in my opinion. It'll either work and be awesome, or she will drop off the map or be used as cannon fodder if it doesn't.

[geocarr]

Valiant is pushing really hard for Punk Mambo to become "their Hellblazer", in my opinion. It'll either work and be awesome, or she will drop off the map or be used as cannon fodder if it doesn't.

I think she should have a name change. I hate the name "Punk Mambo". It sounds like a bad indie comic form the 90's. IMO

[ChiptheRipper]

Valiant is pushing really hard for Punk Mambo to become "their Hellblazer", in my opinion. It'll either work and be awesome, or she will drop off the map or be used as cannon fodder if it doesn't.

I think she should have a name change. I hate the name "Punk Mambo". It sounds like a bad indie comic form the 90's. IMO

I think if they usually referred to her as her real name (which I can't remember off the top of my head), and just refer to her sometimes as The Punk Mambo (The Bat Man is cooler sounding than Batman) it wouldn't be too bad.

[Spylocke]

I think she should have a name change. I hate the name "Punk Mambo". It sounds like a bad indie comic form the 90's. IMO

I rather like it. It makes me wonder about other musical or sub-culture and magical combinations like Mod Wiccan, Techno Bokor, Ska Wizzard or Techno Chaos Magician.

Punk Mambo was the one of the few bright spots in Milligan's run in my opinion.

[dmezynski]

Valiant is pushing really hard for Punk Mambo to become "their Hellblazer", in my opinion. It'll either work and be awesome, or she will drop off the map or be used as cannon fodder if it doesn't.

I think she should have a name change. I hate the name "Punk Mambo". It sounds like a bad indie comic form the 90's. IMO

Same here. I don't care much for the character, and I think her name is awful.

[geocarr]

I think she should have a name change. I hate the name "Punk Mambo". It sounds like a bad indie comic form the 90's. IMO

I rather like it. It makes me wonder about other musical or sub-culture and magical combinations like Mod Wiccan, Techno Bokor, Ska Wizzard or Techno Chaos Magician.

Punk Mambo was the one of the few bright spots in Milligan's run in my opinion.

Same here. I don't care much for the character, and I think her name is awful.

I don't mind the character and I see a lot of potential for good stories with the character but the name is off-putting to me. It sounds cheesy. I can't imagine introducing myself or anyone as "Punk Mambo". I want Shooter's "world outside my window" thinking when it comes to this.

[Watchtower]

"Punk Mambo" isn't a name. It's a title. She is literally a punk mambo.

I don't see anything wrong with how Dr. Mirage has been handled. It seems like Van Meter has taken over as the main "Dr. Mirage" writer, as she's just expanding on a character that really didn't have a lot of presence beforehand.

[tiredofmyself]

It's just jarring to have her with a very different characterization than the introduction in Shadowman, especially if you read the two closely together.

[dmezynski]

I don't care much for the art either. I think the character and title has potential though so I'll stick with it.

And I'm trying to get my post count to 200

[hunter_peterson]

It's just jarring to have her with a very different characterization than the introduction in Shadowman, especially if you read the two closely together.

How so? The characterizations don't conflict or intersect, really. They can both be different sides to the same person. And logically, her own books take precedence.

[tiredofmyself]

Are you sure they are not intersecting or conflicting? Because you then said her own series take precedence. Is this some kind of manifestation of subconscious recognition?

[jeremycoe]

I don't think they conflict. If anything they show the character from different perspectives, but it's still the same character.

[hunter_peterson]

Are you sure they are not intersecting or conflicting? Because you then said her own series take precedence. Is this some kind of manifestation of subconscious recognition?

No, it's just weird you're so insistent that there's some kind of jarring difference when the initial issues featuring her were so thin on character that they simply couldn't contain enough information to provide a conflict.

I'm interested to hear HOW it doesn't make sense, because your critique seems to come from nowhere. Nothing in your initial post is contradictory- in fact, the only part that makes her out to be markedly different is by your own admission entirely your interpretation. I'm just curious as to what evidence there is FOR your interpretation?

[jxm640]

I think the main difference between Shadowman Mirage and Dr. Mirage Mirage is public and private persona.

In public, she will act like she does in Shadowman, while in private, she will act like she does in Dr. Mirage.

[tiredofmyself]

Simple, in Shadowman she kicks *SQUEE* and in her mini Hwen does everything and she's the princess in adventure.

[Keith]

Simple, in Shadowman she kicks *SQUEE* and in her mini Hwen does everything and she's the princess in adventure.

Respectfully disagree. She acts tough in Shadowman, which is highly appropriate for the situation (i.e. Police interrogation of a mass murderer) and something she is a professional at doing. In her series, she goes into the Deadside and other realms, and is in completely over her head even with whatever paranormal knowledge she possesses.

Sorry, I just don't see any difference between the two interpretations because we are seeing her in two completely different contexts. Shan is a tough customer, but in no way versed in the supernatural enough to be a foil for Master Darque. That's Shadowman. And as we saw in the Shadowman issues, she had enough knowledge to seek out the Abbettors once she figured out what was going on.

[hunter_peterson]

Simple, in Shadowman she kicks *SQUEE* and in her mini Hwen does everything and she's the princess in adventure.

Respectfully disagree. She acts tough in Shadowman, which is highly appropriate for the situation (i.e. Police interrogation of a mass murderer) and something she is a professional at doing. In her series, she goes into the Deadside and other realms, and is in completely over her head even with whatever paranormal knowledge she possesses.

Sorry, I just don't see any difference between the two interpretations because we are seeing her in two completely different contexts. Shan is a tough customer, but in no way versed in the supernatural enough to be a foil for Master Darque. That's Shadowman. And as we saw in the Shadowman issues, she had enough knowledge to seek out the Abbettors once she figured out what was going on.

Yeah, in no way could Shan be called the "princess of the adventure." Her quest is to rescue her husband and when she does he tells her thather costume already had teleportation powers (more Wizard of Oz than anything) and then she risks losing it all to stop the threats of the Deadside caused by the people who stole her body. She's very clearly the hero of the story.

That said, she's smart enough to know to avoid Darque and did so in her Shadowman appearances. Of which there are three, and they were short. When confronted with less omnipotent magical threats she's shown herself to be a strong and canny combatant.

[BugsySig]

Simple, in Shadowman she kicks *SQUEE* and in her mini Hwen does everything and she's the princess in adventure.

Respectfully disagree. She acts tough in Shadowman, which is highly appropriate for the situation (i.e. Police interrogation of a mass murderer) and something she is a professional at doing. In her series, she goes into the Deadside and other realms, and is in completely over her head even with whatever paranormal knowledge she possesses.

Sorry, I just don't see any difference between the two interpretations because we are seeing her in two completely different contexts. Shan is a tough customer, but in no way versed in the supernatural enough to be a foil for Master Darque. That's Shadowman. And as we saw in the Shadowman issues, she had enough knowledge to seek out the Abbettors once she figured out what was going on.

Yeah, in no way could Shan be called the "princess ofnthe adventure." Her quest is to rescue her husband and when she does he tells her thather costume already had teleportation powers (more Wizard of Oz than anything) and then she risks losing it all to stop the threats of the Deadside caused by the people who stole her body. She's very clearly the hero of the story.

That said, she's smart enough to know to avoid Darque and did so in her Shadowman appearances. Of which there are three, and they were short. When confronted with less omnipotent magical threats she's shown herself to be a strong and canny combatant.

Agreed. I can't see how anyone could prefer a handful of pages from a pretty poor run of Shadowman issues over a very well written 5-issue miniseries focused on the character.

I would say Shan is portrayed much more heroically, and much less sexualized, in her title series than in those Shadowman issues, where she's all boobs and no substance.

I don't see her as a damsel in distress at all, but rather as a humanize X character dealing with a tragedy in her life and circumstances way beyond her abilities. Yet she still survives and succeeds.

[tiredofmyself]

It's funny that somewhere in this thread we are dragged into a *SQUEE* different topic than original post intended. I was talking about different direction, approach, focus, then somehow I was dragged into the mud and kicked over and over for saying she's portraying differently in two books, while then everyone is admitting she *is* portrayed differently, but they like it better anyway.

And if you looked at the story closely, she is very dependent on her lover, from her problems to solutions. You can say you like this aspect better, but you have to admit it's all kissing and romance and princess and unicorns as opposed to whatever is in Shadowman.

[BugsySig]

I think you're taking it a little personally. Threads will derail a bit, but your OP made it sound like you were not a fan of the "new direction" and your subsequent posts have only seemed to reinforce that.

FWIW, I believe the two approaches are different, but as was previously said, are hardly contradictory as Mirage barely does anything in those initial Shadowman appearances.

To each their own, though, and maybe we will see some continued growth of the character which will show Shan developing more as a spiritual detective and an even stronger character (regardless of gender).

[hunter_peterson]

Yeah, don't feel like anyone's trying to "drag you through the mud" or anything. It's just that the thread as explained in the OP reads as a complaint about the direction of Mirage changing somehow and that being bad- in your opinion. So we discussed your opinion and seeked clarification as to what that was. It's all just discussion of the original points.

As to those opinions- specifically that it's all "kissing and romance and princesses and unicorns"- I'd say that the main character being deeply in love with and relying on her husband is part of the core of what " Doctor Mirage" is all about. The original was about ghosts and romance. This one is too.

Personally, I was mostly confused by the insistence that the direction was "new", as there had not really been a direction until the mini, just cameos. Direction implies a plan, not random appearances.

[Watchtower]

As to those opinions- specifically that it's all "kissing and romance and princesses and unicorns"- I'd say that the main character being deeply in love with and relying on her husband is part of the core of what " Doctor Mirage" is all about. The original was aboutghosts and romance. This one is too.

Oh dear God, the romance in VEI!Mirage is nowhere in the same ballpark as the diabetes-inducing twu-wuv-4evuh romance of VH1!Mirage. At least Shan actually had to work her *SQUEE* to get Hwen back, as opposed to Hwen willing himself back to Carmen literally from The Power of Love. And at least Shan is very much believable as a real woman, as opposed to Carmen, who, while still very much an awesome and well-written character, was basically comic nerd fantasy fodder.

There's also the general fallacy of assuming that a woman can't be strong if she's focused on love, which is complete bollocks. Not accusing anyone here of directly invoking it, but it has its ways of creeping in.