Valiant Bloopers

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Todd Luck
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Valiant Bloopers

Post by Todd Luck »

It's always funny when a mistake gets published. Valiant had a few bloopers. I'm not talking about conscious retcons or past stories that were just ignored on purpose, I'm talking about honest-to-God, "How the hell did that happen?" mistakes. Here's a few:

The mother of all bloopers was, of course, in U2000 when they accidently had Phil Seleski hold Valiant's Solar #1 (starring himself!) instead of the Gold Key Solar issue that really inspired him as a kid.

At the end of Geomancer 6, Clay is shot in the chest and appears to be dead. At the beginning of issue 7, we find out he had a bullet proof vest on that caught the bullet. Unfortunately the colorist wasn't "in" on the plot twist and there was a rather large splatter of blood when Clay was shot in issue 6. Oops.

In the Archer & Armstrong issues with Shadowman in them, Darque and Jack talk about how a witch told Jack how he's going to die in Sept 9th 1999 fighting Darque. Unfortutely the conversation never happened. The only info Jack had about his future came from Elya and a fortune teller in Shadowman 9. Elya may not be very nice sometimes but I wouldn't call her a witch :wink: .

Any others?

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Post by X-O HoboJoe »

The only bloopers I can think of were called DeathMate and BirthQuake. :P
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Post by Todd Luck »

X-O HoboJoe wrote:The only bloopers I can think of were called DeathMate and BirthQuake. :P
You must have missed the ending of Harbinger 25 & Chaos Effect, and that whole Malev War thing in Magnus :P . And, of course, getting rid of Jim Shooter though that could be considered a "conscious recton" if you ask Bob Layton about it :wink: .
Last edited by Todd Luck on Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jcdenton »

A few examples that may not quite fit the "blooper" definition, but are similar:

In XO #3, during Aric's battle with Sniper/X-Caliber, there is a yellow caption that reads:

"There was no Soviet tradition like the American cowboys, but I love their old films!"

The only possible explanation is that it was originating from X-Calibur's thoughts, not Aric's. The problem there is that every "yellow caption" in the series up to that point (and well beyond) was originating from Aric's thoughts, and he was just starting to learn words like "cat" and "dog" in that issue. Maybe not an error per se, but definitely something that never should have gotten past the editor.

Then there was the Solar where he meets the giant alien child on the moon. I don't recall the # but it was one of the Jurgens issues. Chock full of stuff that wasn't necessarily "errors", but just grossly bad science (basically "DC science") that never would have passed muster when Shooter was around (when everything had to be at least based in actual science, even if some suspension of disbelief was required).

First you have the aliens who look roughtly humanoid but are hundreds of feet tall, thus in gross violation of the fact that an object's weight increases exponentionally with height. I believe some of the early Secret Weapons issues correctly used this as a plot device involving Stronghold. One could say that the aliens' home planet had almost no gravity, but even then they would have been crushed to death by their own weight on the gravity of the moon.

Then there's the whole thing with the alien's ship being launched towards the Earth and getting "sucked in" by the Earth's gravity. Absolutely ridiculous unless it were being specifically guided into the Earth, which it wasn't. To launch an object from one celestial body and have it collide with another requires INCREDIBLY precise calculations, and it's basically impossible for an object to get "sucked in" to a planet like that.
Last edited by jcdenton on Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by jcdenton »

Oh yeah... As I mentioned the other day, the worst true "blooper" I can think of, although not Valiant-related, is the panel in an early Excalibur where Nightcrawler was colored with regular skin.

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Post by Todd Luck »

jcdenton wrote:A few examples that may not quite fit the "blooper" definition, but are similar:

In XO #3, during Aric's battle with Sniper/X-Caliber, there is a yellow caption that reads:

"There was no Soviet tradition like the American cowboys, but I love their old films!"

The only possible explanation is that it was originating from X-Calibur's thoughts, not Aric's. The problem there is that every "yellow caption" in the series up to that point (and well beyond) was originating from Aric's thoughts, and he was just starting to learn words like "cat" and "dog" in that issue. Maybe not an error per se, but definitely something that never should have gotten past the editor.
I'ld forgotten that infamous mixed word balloon. Every company's has to have atleast one :thumb: .

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Post by greg »

It's not exactly a blunder, but one of the key scenes in Solar: Alpha & Omega
has Phil pulling away the bandages from his face, and he says
"Got A Scissors?"

I'm sorry, but scissors just sounds wrong with "A" in front of it.

"Got Any Scissors?" would have been perfect...

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Post by jcdenton »

Here's two continuity errors I just thought of...

In XO #0 the Map Giver was Elvis (as confirmed by Kevin Vanhook).

In XO #68, the Map Giver was some other guy, clearly not Elvis.

Also:

In Solar #7, Solar has a grueling fight a single alien in Manowar armor and is almost defeated.

In Solar #35, Solar he slaughters a GROUP of aliens in Manowar armor with ease, using utterly ridiculous (almost comical) methods.
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Post by Sect »

greg wrote:It's not exactly a blunder, but one of the key scenes in Solar: Alpha & Omega
has Phil pulling away the bandages from his face, and he says
"Got A Scissors?"

I'm sorry, but scissors just sounds wrong with "A" in front of it.

"Got Any Scissors?" would have been perfect...
wow i think it is amazing in itself that you saw that. I probably would have read that and moved on...maybe that's why i sometimes struggle in school..i'm not paying attention!

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Post by dave »

then there was the time that solar appeared right in front of ol' Aram, and instead of calling him solar he called him "magnus!" hahaha

oh, what do you mean that was an intentional blooper? that still gets me everytime... :lol:

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Post by jcdenton »

Some pics to illustrate my earlier points:

XO mystery thoughts:

Image

"Sucked" into Earth's gravitational pull (from millions of miles away):

Image

XO Manowars dropping like flies:

Image

Original Mapgiver (Elvis):

Image

New Mapgiver (Not Elvis):

Image

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Post by davidb »

Didn't they bring Elvis in in a later Turok story? It was the one where Turok faced off against the Nazi women in the Lost Land. Apparently in that story, Elvis was on a secret mission for LBJ and his UFO had crashed in the Lost Land. The Nazi women were going to use him to bring Hitler back to life. They wound up putting Hitler's brain into Elvis's body and killing him when he starting singing "Hound Dog" in German.
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Post by Will »

davidb wrote:Didn't they bring Elvis in in a later Turok story? It was the one where Turok faced off against the Nazi women in the Lost Land. Apparently in that story, Elvis was on a secret mission for LBJ and his UFO had crashed in the Lost Land. The Nazi women were going to use him to bring Hitler back to life. They wound up putting Hitler's brain into Elvis's body and killing him when he starting singing "Hound Dog" in German.
That clears it up.

Thanks.

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Post by Will »

jcdenton wrote: XO Manowars dropping like flies:
No kidding. This plot line killed me. You can _crash_ a manowar and kill it? You can THROW A MANOWAR AT A SPIKED PIECE OF METAL AND KILL IT? I like Kevin V a lot, but did he even read the X-O Manowar series?

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Post by Todd Luck »

Will wrote:
jcdenton wrote: XO Manowars dropping like flies:
No kidding. This plot line killed me. You can _crash_ a manowar and kill it? You can THROW A MANOWAR AT A SPIKED PIECE OF METAL AND KILL IT? I like Kevin V a lot, but did he even read the X-O Manowar series?
Or Solar :P? Solar fought an X-O Manowar armor twice before then in the series. I think it just one of those things were they came up with a great visual idea: let's have Solar the Destroyer fight FIVE Manowars at the same time, doesn't that sound cool? Sure. But thinking of a plausable way to get Destoyer out of that situation in the amount pages they had proved difficult.

Ofcourse, this is this same plotline where Destoyer blowing up planets with hand beams which just looked kind of silly to me.

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Post by Todd Luck »

Here's a classic one that was never addressed (to my knowledge):

In Solar 6 and 7, the alien fleet is near this Solar System's asteriod belt (far from Earth). Solar fights the fleet that's just floating there until they decide to flee the solar system at the end of issue 7. They kick into warp drive (or whatever) and Solar never catches up to them again.

In X-O 1 the fleet is under attack and Aric takes advantage of it to snag the X-O armor. But when he leaves his ship he's right outside Earth. Heck, he's so close he just falls to Earth.

So how was a fleet in the middle of the Solar system in one comic, right beside Earth in another? Was this a set up for a another story? A product of Shooter plotting too many comics with too little sleep?

The best "no prize" I could come up with was that the fleet took the long way out of the system and fled by Earth just as Aric got the armor, or that there was a second group of ships fighting something else (Maybe Harada had some space stuff we don't know about? It would make sense if he knew the aliens where going to invade)

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Post by dave »

back to that x-o quote for a minute....that just makes no sense at all...i mean, even if a few hours earlier aric had asked the suit to show him some culture, and the suit picked spaghetti westerns and a few russian films...even giving THAT benefit of the doubt-it makes no sense.


there was no soviet tradition like the american cowboys, but i love their old films!

it just makes no sense. soryy to repeat myself-but it doesn't make sense.

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Post by jedimarley »

dave wrote:back to that x-o quote for a minute....that just makes no sense at all...i mean, even if a few hours earlier aric had asked the suit to show him some culture, and the suit picked spaghetti westerns and a few russian films...even giving THAT benefit of the doubt-it makes no sense.


there was no soviet tradition like the american cowboys, but i love their old films!

it just makes no sense. soryy to repeat myself-but it doesn't make sense.
You're not making any sense....

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Post by dave »

you should see my last check...i'm not making any "cents" either... :lol:

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Post by jedimarley »

dave wrote:you should see my last check...i'm not making any "cents" either... :lol:
:lol:
I hear you...

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Post by Todd Luck »

Just got 19 Chaos Effect/Acclaim era comics. I'm almost half way through them and I've already found a lot of "bloopers"

I've found my new favorite typo (it rates right up there with "I really Ninjak." :D ) in Solar 38. It's a Solar "voice over" caption:

"Or else it's all my in head"

Yes, Solar, it is all your in head.
:lol:

A couple blatent ones are in Eternal Warrior 43:

One is a panel where the colorist, confused by the lines on Gilad's face, gives him a full mustache for one panel! :o I knew Gilad had a lot of abilities but making facial hair appear and disappear...that's amazing!
:lol:

And here's dialog from the last panel on page 21 and the first panel on page 22:

Gilad: She is my prisoner, and I alone will question her! Anyone else even touches her and I will hold you responsible, Kross! Understood?!

Gilad (thought): But you will accept it for now.

Gilad (thought): Obviously not.

And that's it. Obviously something is missing somewhere in that dialog... :|
Last edited by Todd Luck on Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Gaku »

In Shadowman #0, the voodoo powers that Jack Boniface should have it transfered into the Shadowman mask, that he finds in Shadowman #0. But in Shadowman #4, the mask is burnt by the power of Solar. Which is replace by Elya in Shadowman with a replica of the orignal mask.
In Shadowman #18, Nettie release the voodoo power of the mask and puts it into Jack.

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Post by Todd Luck »

Gaku wrote:In Shadowman #0, the voodoo powers that Jack Boniface should have it transfered into the Shadowman mask, that he finds in Shadowman #0. But in Shadowman #4, the mask is burnt by the power of Solar. Which is replace by Elya in Shadowman with a replica of the orignal mask.
In Shadowman #18, Nettie release the voodoo power of the mask and puts it into Jack.
I don't think they succeeded in releasing the power of the mask in 18. Darque had some Neo-Nazi interupt the ceremony before they could do that, if I recall correctly.

But that's an excellent catch with the mask in Shadowman 4 :thumb: It shows how brutally hard it is to do retroactive continuity without contradicting something in the character's past. Of course, the "no prize" explanation is that, at some point, Nettie performs a spell on the mask he got in Unity too (the mask was supposed to work slowly and his powers didn't start showing up until issue 14).

What killed me was when Bob Hall's run started contradicting itself. In Shadowman 10 Darque said he got his powers of fire and resurrection FOR THE FIRST TIME in 1992-1993. In Shadowman 0 it showed him getting the powers of fire and resurrection FOR THE FIRST TIME in the late 1800's. I didn't list it as Blooper before because I'm sure it was an intentional retcon. They probably thought Shadowman 0 wouldn't have been as exciting a story without Darque's most iconic powers. They're probably right, but when you're reading all this stuff together it's still one of those things that makes you go :!:
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Post by jcdenton »

I finally read Shadowman 0 for the first time recently, and I thought it seemed a little "off" compared to the first few issues of the series. What I mean is it just felt like they basically came up with an origin that was not planned out that way from the beginning.

For example, when Lydia gets distracted in SH #1 and prevented from killing Jack, I always thought it tied in directly with the events of XO #4. Instead, it had nothing to do with it. I also always thought Lydia's attack somehow triggered Jack's latent powers, much like Sting and Harada are able to trigger Harbinger powers. Instead, they made it so Lydia *repressed* the Shadowman powers. It all seemed kind of like a "tacked on" origin that they came up with after the fact.

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Post by Todd Luck »

jcdenton wrote:I finally read Shadowman 0 for the first time recently, and I thought it seemed a little "off" compared to the first few issues of the series. What I mean is it just felt like they basically came up with an origin that was not planned out that way from the beginning.

For example, when Lydia gets distracted in SH #1 and prevented from killing Jack, I always thought it tied in directly with the events of XO #4. Instead, it had nothing to do with it. I also always thought Lydia's attack somehow triggered Jack's latent powers, much like Sting and Harada are able to trigger Harbinger powers. Instead, they made it so Lydia *repressed* the Shadowman powers. It all seemed kind of like a "tacked on" origin that they came up with after the fact.
Yeah it felt very tacked on but it still worked okay. But they didn't change the thing the bite did to Jack in the first 13 issues of the comic: it gave him the uncontrolable urge to go out into the night and get rid it of "demons" (a predatory urge Lydia "passed on" to Jack). His "superpowers" didn't start showing up until issue 14 and then a few issues after that they established the bite supressed those powers AND made him nuts at night. Ofcourse Shadowman 0 restated all that. Personally I always liked Jack without "superpowers" but Bob Hall had some fun with the new powers and made it work.

One thing that always mystified me about the orginal scene in Shadowman 1 with Lydia, yeah it appeared to be X-O that scared her away, but I also recall a lot of light pouring through that window in that scene. What was the light supposed to be from? X-O shooting a really bright laser?


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