Seaborn Adamson, the VCB, his collection, and more

[loganc]

Seaborn Adamson passed away the morning of January 29th, 1996 in a car accident on his way to work. I doubt he needs much introduction on this forum, but for those unfamiliar, he was a Valiant superfan, the Valiant Archivist, and the writer of the Valiant Continuity Bible, a topic that has been discussed numerous times on this forum over the years.



Now, to the main point of this post. My name is Logan, and I am the son of Connie, Seaborn’s wife, who is mentioned in Seaborn’s valiant memorial (attached). I am 18 years old, and I have never been knowledgeable or a big fan of any comics. (I had to google Shadowman in order to pass the captcha to make an account on this forum). I would say over the past day, I have done a ton of research on Seaborn’s standing in the Valiant community and his contributions. I have read many posts discussing the Valiant Continuity Bible (VCB), and I would like to hear opinions regarding the best options for what to do with it. There have been discussions regarding its Intellectual Property, who it belongs to, and if it is reproducible. Seaborn initially intended to sell the VCB and reached out to Valiant for permission to do so. After no response, he proceeded to sell two copies, of which I’m not sure where they are today. After the two sales, Valiant told Seaborn they would prefer if he didn’t sell them and then also offered him a job. This is where Seaborn became the official Valiant archivist, and the VCB became an internal Valiant document, produced on an as-needed basis for employees, not intended to be sold. Seaborn also worked on some other projects with Valiant at this time. I know he helped make trading cards, but I’m unsure if they were ever released.
This is the big question- Is the VCB worth it to release (most likely as a publicly available online PDF), and is this legally viable if Seaborn was never paid for the book and if there’s official permission from the estate (my mom)? After all, I seem to have found a “continuity bible” that includes a much larger timeline than the VCB ever did (which was published in 1993 and not officially updated). Is this worth it, and are there any legal issues involved in doing this? Interested in the community’s opinions regarding this. I can most likely find an electronic copy on an old computer or a physical copy can be scanned in.

Seaborn’s Valiant Collection- Obviously, Seaborn has a vast collection of probably every single valiant comic up to 1996. This guy named Justin appears to have claimed to have purchased the collection many years ago, around 2006 or so, but this is false. The majority of the collection (apart from some sold to a friend in the 90s) is still right here, and it’s not doing us any good sitting around. For a while, I was worried there would be little to no interest in the comics, but based on this forum, I can see now that’s not the case. I am curious about the best place to sell these, and I do not mind going through them 1 by 1 to sell individually, hopefully, once I get that going, I can get at least 10-15 listed per day. Seaborn always bought two copies of Valiant comics- one to read, one to never open. Obviously, the never-opened ones are in pristine condition, but he also took good care of the reading copies and stored all of them in a dark, dry, and relatively bug-free basement. They are also all in plastic sleeves. Is it worth to get any of these graded? It just seems like it could be a very big ordeal to get thousands of these graded, and I don’t know the cost for that kind of thing.

Again, I am curious about everyone’s thoughts. I’m not sure of a timeline for anything to happen quite yet, but I know it will probably be a couple of months at the earliest. Thanks!

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[loganc]

Here's some stuff in a box, including the Valiant 3rd Year Anniversary (plan to digitize this), and drafts of what I assume became the VCB.

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[loganc]

Here is a comic I found in the box as well and another draft packet. In a sealed box, I do have a copy of the published VCB, sent directly from the printer and never opened. Seaborn kept this for "verification purposes."

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[loganc]

The collection: We moved homes in 2023, but until then all of Seaborn's stuff has been essentially untouched since his death, as my mom lived in the house for another 27 years. Before moving into our new house, it was temporarily moved to a storage unit for about 2 months, but it is now in our garage here. It took up the entire back of a Suburban with all the seats folded down, and basically bottomed the suspension out with the weight, to give you an idea on the amount. This is also not the whole collection, as we had to move a very full large wooden chest afterwards that easily weighed at least 100 lbs. If I find anything particularly interesting, I will upload it, but let me know if there's anything anyone would like to see and I will try my best.

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[ManofTheAtom]

cut down for space

https://www.facebook.com/groups/492671455173956/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/465746306961375/

You should post about this on those Facebook groups too, try your luck there.

This other one has strict rules against selling, but given the source you might want to broach the subject up with a moderator before posting about it there.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/438684846161908/

[syzhang28]

Wonderful to have you here. Seaborn is a legend.

Here is my advice. Be careful and take your time. I would contact CGC about the comics and see if they will get you a Seaborn notation on the label. Then I would pull the 25 or 50 most important books for grading. I imagine they would be very in demand if you did that. Failing that I would create COA's yourself and have your mom sign them. Pull the 25 or 50 most important books and COA them.

I would not reproduce the VCB. It has been a source of much trouble whenever it is discussed in reproduction terms. The original Valiant did not want it to become public. The modern Valiant (VEI) also did not.

I would avoid Justin like the plague. He was a scam artist.

Lastly, Man of the atom, is very passionate but not particularly savvy in how the world actually works and he's not a reader so probably won't have advice that will steer you right.

Good luck.

[nycjadie]

I’m happy to chat. I’m an IP attorney, and a passionate collector. So many issues and items of advice, it’s probably worth talking through.

[magnusr]

Welcome. Seaborn is a legend and was a very nice person. I had the pleasure of communicating with him once. His accident was a big loss for the community. It's nice to have you here.

A few copies of the VCBs that were used in the Valiant office have since sold. I have become caretaker for three of them.

Also, before I got it, one copy was recopied and sold so there are a number of second-generation copies out there.

Many years ago, with the permission of the then copyright holders, I set up a kind of wikiish page with OCRs of the VCB. Unfortunately the server no longer supports ASP. The scans and the data base still exist if that can help you.

I am very interested in whatever you decide to do with the VCB related material; draft, verification copy and updated versions.

/Magnus

[mkb28]

Every time I read a sad story like this, I get motivated to sell more of my collection. I don’t want to leave a mess for my family to have to sort out. My problem is that I don’t stop buying new TPBs, hardcovers, and regular fiction books.

I sell a few books and I turn right around and replace them with something else. It is a bad cycle that has to stop at some point.

Good luck with selling the collection.

Michael
Mkb28

[Ryan]

I think it would be great if all of Seaborn's notes, indexes, and archives were digitized and memorialized in a public way, maybe on this website?

Logan, since you say that you're not a fan of comics you might not know that the original version of Valiant (that Seaborn worked for) ended in 1996.

They were bought by a video game company named Acclaim and put out more comics from 1997-2000, but these had nothing to do with the fictional universe of the original (1991-96) Valiant.

Then Acclaim went out of business and the Valiant characters were bought by other people. They rebooted the characters and began publishing new comics in 2012, which are still being published today. These new comics also have nothing to do with the original Valiant universe.

All that to say, the notes and archives of Seaborn don't have relevance or relationship with the comics published after 1997, but they do have great historical interest to the people who are still fans of the original 90's Valiant universe.

[Ryan]

I would not reproduce the VCB. It has been a source of much trouble whenever it is discussed in reproduction terms. The original Valiant did not want it to become public. The modern Valiant (VEI) also did not.

With all due respect, I think a superfan like Seaborn, who devoted so much of his passion and energy to the love of these comics, would want his notes, indexes, archives, bibles, ect. to be shared and accessible to the fans who carry on his passion for the 90's Valiant comics. As opposed to hoarded by a few rich collectors only to gather dust in their basement collections.

[ckb]

I would not reproduce the VCB. It has been a source of much trouble whenever it is discussed in reproduction terms. The original Valiant did not want it to become public. The modern Valiant (VEI) also did not.

With all due respect, I think a superfan like Seaborn, who devoted so much of his passion and energy to the love of these comics, would want his notes, indexes, archives, bibles, ect. to be shared and accessible to the fans who carry on his passion for the 90's Valiant comics. As opposed to hoarded by a few rich collectors only to gather dust in their basement collections.

While I agree with you in principle, Ryan, we are talking about IP here, and the only opinion that matters is the IP holder. Indeed, your (or my) opinion about the relevance of the Voyager material to the currently published IP is not relevant. These characters may be in a different form but they are the same characters, and VEI, at least under dino, did care about this material.

The current owner of this material would do well to get permission to do anything publishing-related with it.

And Logan, I want to commend you on doing some research on the boards and board history before posting here. The more common scenario of a completely oblivious person is very tiresome, and you will certainly be rewarded for going over all those tedious 20-year old VCB threads with me posting in them and being sanctimonious.

As for the actual books, I would expect Seaborn's collection to contain more than the usual amount of gold books and incentives. The first step for anything like this is a solid inventory. This is not as easy as it sounds, but the resources on this board will make it much easier. CGC grading a subset of these (whether or not you can get a "from the collection of" notation from CGC) may seem like a good idea - but I will warn that "prisitine" to the untrained eye could very well get you something that cost more to grade then to sell.

As for the pre-1996 Voyager material, the de-facto Valiant historian IMHO is Greg Holland, who runs this board, and a small group of true-collectors-not-resellers from around the globe who are passionate about the universe. I would lean on "greg" for advice, and "evilgreg" when you don't like what he is telling you.

[loganc]

Thanks everyone for their thoughts. nycjadie, being an IP attorney you're probably the best person that could've came across this post. Would love to talk to you, what would be the best way to do so?
Regarding the VCB, ideally I would love to release and make it public. I understand if Valiant did not want it public as it contained their characters and such, but it also confuses me a little because all the VCB does is just connect things together and give context to some stories (at least to my untrained eye). It's not really spoiling anything in a way that would prevent people from reading Valiant otherwise, and it's definitely something I can only see a collector reading. Magnus, I would love to publicly release all of it and if we could use those scans and database on a newer technology than ASP lol. If I can find the original electronic copy I can also post that, I have Seaborn's old laptops but I don't know the password (not that it's hard to bypass on Windows 95) and I don't even know if it was on that laptop. Also, just curious, who was the then copyright holders of the VCB?

Ryan, thank you for the context on Valiant. I read that they were sold in 96 to Acclaim, but I had thought that the original universe continued to 2000.
I also agree that Seaborn would want everything to be accessible, which is why I want to try my best to make this happen, even if its been a couple years.

ckb, do you have a recommendation on who to speak to regarding this, or any ideas on who may hold this? Also, I will definitely work on starting an inventory. I have to clear out a large space in the garage however, which is still full from where we majorly downsized our home last year. I was hoping Greg Holland would comment on this post to speak his thoughts, as I have seen his name just about everywhere, but I'm sure he will be here sometime.

Thanks guys, i will update with news on everything as it comes. For anyone wanting to talk to me with more detail outside of this forum, I'm not sure of the best way to share info, but just let me know what works best

[loganc]

Forgot to mention- Once I get an inventory going, I want to ask which ones would be best to get graded, and I'll try and speak to CGC about a special "Seaborn's Collection" tag of some sort.

[syzhang28]

Thanks everyone for their thoughts. nycjadie, being an IP attorney you're probably the best person that could've came across this post. Would love to talk to you, what would be the best way to do so?
Regarding the VCB, ideally I would love to release and make it public. I understand if Valiant did not want it public as it contained their characters and such, but it also confuses me a little because all the VCB does is just connect things together and give context to some stories (at least to my untrained eye). It's not really spoiling anything in a way that would prevent people from reading Valiant otherwise, and it's definitely something I can only see a collector reading. Magnus, I would love to publicly release all of it and if we could use those scans and database on a newer technology than ASP lol. If I can find the original electronic copy I can also post that, I have Seaborn's old laptops but I don't know the password (not that it's hard to bypass on Windows 95) and I don't even know if it was on that laptop. Also, just curious, who was the then copyright holders of the VCB?

Ryan, thank you for the context on Valiant. I read that they were sold in 96 to Acclaim, but I had thought that the original universe continued to 2000.
I also agree that Seaborn would want everything to be accessible, which is why I want to try my best to make this happen, even if its been a couple years.

ckb, do you have a recommendation on who to speak to regarding this, or any ideas on who may hold this? Also, I will definitely work on starting an inventory. I have to clear out a large space in the garage however, which is still full from where we majorly downsized our home last year. I was hoping Greg Holland would comment on this post to speak his thoughts, as I have seen his name just about everywhere, but I'm sure he will be here sometime.

Thanks guys, i will update with news on everything as it comes. For anyone wanting to talk to me with more detail outside of this forum, I'm not sure of the best way to share info, but just let me know what works best

I would caution you to take your time and be careful. Why risk darken the legacy if Valiant doesn't want this to be made public. Technically they may take the stance that they own it and who knows what the deal was back then. They will have their own reasons to not want it public but this was one of the few things that every iteration of Valiant has agreed on.

[Ryan]

Thanks everyone for their thoughts. nycjadie, being an IP attorney you're probably the best person that could've came across this post. Would love to talk to you, what would be the best way to do so?
Regarding the VCB, ideally I would love to release and make it public. I understand if Valiant did not want it public as it contained their characters and such, but it also confuses me a little because all the VCB does is just connect things together and give context to some stories (at least to my untrained eye). It's not really spoiling anything in a way that would prevent people from reading Valiant otherwise, and it's definitely something I can only see a collector reading. Magnus, I would love to publicly release all of it and if we could use those scans and database on a newer technology than ASP lol. If I can find the original electronic copy I can also post that, I have Seaborn's old laptops but I don't know the password (not that it's hard to bypass on Windows 95) and I don't even know if it was on that laptop. Also, just curious, who was the then copyright holders of the VCB?

Ryan, thank you for the context on Valiant. I read that they were sold in 96 to Acclaim, but I had thought that the original universe continued to 2000.
I also agree that Seaborn would want everything to be accessible, which is why I want to try my best to make this happen, even if its been a couple years.

Yeah, my assumption was that the VCB and Seaborn's indexes were just his notes and gathering the facts of what happened in the comics, aka archiving. Like if I took notes when I re-read the comics, are those notes then owned by Valiant? I'm no IP attorney.

Despite the handwringing on here, I really don't think there's a lot of interest in the 90s universe anyway. There are definitely some hardcore fans who would have interest in reading it, and it might be a good accompaniment for people reading through the old comics in the future. Beyond that, none of the new owners have ever shown any interest in publishing the 90s version of the characters or using that continuity.

But remember, comic book collectors are usually hoarders by nature and the idea of an 'exclusive' collectible that other people can't get is like catnip for them

[nycjadie]

Every time I read a sad story like this, I get motivated to sell more of my collection. I don’t want to leave a mess for my family to have to sort out. My problem is that I don’t stop buying new TPBs, hardcovers, and regular fiction books.

I sell a few books and I turn right around and replace them with something else. It is a bad cycle that has to stop at some point.

Good luck with selling the collection.

Michael
Mkb28

I told my wife I am going to keep going until I’m 60, and then my hobby will be to sell my collection over 10 years. I just didn’t tell her how much I would sell…..

But yes, I’m right there with you.

[nycjadie]

Logan, feel free to PM me here, or you can visit my law firm bio at coatesip.com. My email is accessible there (I won’t post it here).

I’m also on FB and on the Valiant group there, Stephen Coates

I can chat about IP issues as well as graded comics. I think I probably have one of the largest collections of graded Valiant books. Top 5 at least. I’ve graded many. It’s definitely a labor of love and not profit.

I also wouldn’t hesitate to host the VCR on my website at valiant.fan, which hasn’t been updated in years and years!

[mkb28]

Every time I read a sad story like this, I get motivated to sell more of my collection. I don’t want to leave a mess for my family to have to sort out. My problem is that I don’t stop buying new TPBs, hardcovers, and regular fiction books.

I sell a few books and I turn right around and replace them with something else. It is a bad cycle that has to stop at some point.

Good luck with selling the collection.

Michael
Mkb28

I told my wife I am going to keep going until I’m 60, and then my hobby will be to sell my collection over 10 years. I just didn’t tell her how much I would sell…..

But yes, I’m right there with you.

Thanks, Steve! Well, I just turned 60 so I better get moving in the selling direction.

[nycjadie]

Every time I read a sad story like this, I get motivated to sell more of my collection. I don’t want to leave a mess for my family to have to sort out. My problem is that I don’t stop buying new TPBs, hardcovers, and regular fiction books.

I sell a few books and I turn right around and replace them with something else. It is a bad cycle that has to stop at some point.

Good luck with selling the collection.

Michael
Mkb28

I told my wife I am going to keep going until I’m 60, and then my hobby will be to sell my collection over 10 years. I just didn’t tell her how much I would sell…..

But yes, I’m right there with you.

Thanks, Steve! Well, I just turned 60 so I better get moving in the selling direction.

Oh no! But, you don't need to sell it all...

[mkb28]

Every time I read a sad story like this, I get motivated to sell more of my collection. I don’t want to leave a mess for my family to have to sort out. My problem is that I don’t stop buying new TPBs, hardcovers, and regular fiction books.

I sell a few books and I turn right around and replace them with something else. It is a bad cycle that has to stop at some point.

Good luck with selling the collection.

Michael
Mkb28

I told my wife I am going to keep going until I’m 60, and then my hobby will be to sell my collection over 10 years. I just didn’t tell her how much I would sell…..

But yes, I’m right there with you.

Thanks, Steve! Well, I just turned 60 so I better get moving in the selling direction.

Oh no! But, you don't need to sell it all...

For sure, my friend!

[reddog]

I don't post much but I'm so glad I decided to check out the site today. I remember talking with Seaborn and sending him my own Valiant first appearances guide and notes covering the line until Unity. I think it was before Valiant offered him the job and I couldn't help thinking "I hope you don't take it." It seemed to me he would have been much better off continuing on his own but I wasn't privy to his situation or finances at the time. He was a great guy to talk to and very passionate. I still have my hand typed guide and pull it out every once in a while. Mine, like Seaborn's, had it's genesis in the excitement and awe Valiant generated back then. Haven't felt the same since. Good luck...you'll be in good hands with Coates.

[loganc]

. I think it was before Valiant offered him the job and I couldn't help thinking "I hope you don't take it." It seemed to me he would have been much better off continuing on his own but I wasn't privy to his situation or finances at the time.

From what I’ve heard, he just was thrilled to have the opportunity and that he basically did everything he did already while getting paid, and designing trading cards and it was less about the finances and more about how much he loved Valiant. My mom says he was thrilled working with them and enjoyed going out to visit

[loganc]

Logan, feel free to PM me here, or you can visit my law firm bio at coatesip.com. My email is accessible there (I won’t post it here).

I’m also on FB and on the Valiant group there, Stephen Coates

I can chat about IP issues as well as graded comics. I think I probably have one of the largest collections of graded Valiant books. Top 5 at least. I’ve graded many. It’s definitely a labor of love and not profit.

I also wouldn’t hesitate to host the VCR on my website at valiant.fan, which hasn’t been updated in years and years!

I will absolutely be in contact with you once I get a chance through my schoolwork (full time college student) and everything else going on, thank you!

[JonesyAZ]

Logan, feel free to PM me here, or you can visit my law firm bio at coatesip.com. My email is accessible there (I won’t post it here).

I’m also on FB and on the Valiant group there, Stephen Coates

I can chat about IP issues as well as graded comics. I think I probably have one of the largest collections of graded Valiant books. Top 5 at least. I’ve graded many. It’s definitely a labor of love and not profit.

I also wouldn’t hesitate to host the VCR on my website at valiant.fan, which hasn’t been updated in years and years!

I will absolutely be in contact with you once I get a chance through my schoolwork (full time college student) and everything else going on, thank you!

I just read this wonderful thread and as a fan and father, I think the path you’re going to take is the best Logan And yes like someone else said before, AVOID Justin Ehart like the plague, and anyone else who contacts you and tries to pressure you into making a deal. Take your time and go with your gut.