Serious question...what did Heather Antos actually *do*?

[daniellew61]

She didn't "run" anything, that was all Fred Pierce.

Ok, as fans we don't know the inner workings of the company. When someone is hired as the lead editor, we assume they're making the decisions about how the comics are made.

Yeah, I'm not arguing with you or anything, and not trying to say "don't discuss this"
I'm ..trying to be helpful I guess speaking as someone who was there..
Again, She was not the lead editor either.
"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time. Shadowman did really really well, I don't think that was solely because so many retailers wanted to do exclusives either.
But for some of the issues.....Basically, you guys giving her way too much power/credit for things... when she was not the boss at all.
No offense meant toward her work ethic or any other editor, everyone did their jobs. Under a boss.

Edited for grammar/clarity

[The Harbinger]

Yeah, I'm not arguing with you or anything, and not trying to say "don't discuss this"
I'm ..trying to be helpful I guess speaking as someone who was there..
Again, She was not the lead editor either.
"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time. Shadowman did really really well, I don't think that was solely because so many retailers wanted to do exclusives either.
But for some of the issues.....Basically, you guys giving her way too much power/credit for things... when she was not the boss at all.
No offense meant toward her work ethic or any other editor, everyone did their jobs. Under a boss.

Edited for grammar/clarity

Oh yes, Fred Pierce deserves some blame as well.

So my understanding has been that as a "senior editor", Antos would be able to impact creative decisions and hiring. She didn't sit on the hiring panels?
https://valiantentertainment.com/2020/0 ... r-editors/
"Manage editorial department" and "overseeing relationships with creators" implies some type of oversight and say, no? I'm on the outside looking in, but I'm just reading the public press releases, so I'd be interested in what the reality was.

"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time.

And in context that was a bad thing, no? "At the time" in post March 2020 is a time where only 1-2 books came out a month into early 2021? Comichron has Quantum and Woody #2 in Feb 2020 at 4K units ordered. Shadowman #1 and #2 have no sales data, but #3 is at 7k in June 2021, beating out heavy hitters Visitor #5 (3k) and Visitor #6 (2.9k). I saw a Ninjak #1 at 24k units ordered, so I'm guessing the first 2 issues are around that number.

While comichron doesn't gather everything, what units sold was the number to hit for good/this is suddenly a limited series/bad?

[GammaJosh]

GREAT NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE "DEEP STATE" AGAIN. I'LL REVISIT IN SEVERAL MONTHS.

If this is in reference to my post, I apologized for using the lazy loaded pop-culture term DEEP STATE (lacking all nuance) but you Gamma used the term ComicsGate which I consider equally lacking in nuance.

If your post is not a reference to mine, or if your distaste has some other provenance, sorry to bother you.

However, in all seriousness, does your comment mean you dismiss the Deep State as a thing?

I was referring to ComicsGate literally and specifically. There is an actual movement/organization/club that self-identifies as "ComicsGate" with members. Nobody self-identifies as "deep state". If you want to talk about organizational inertia, budget bloat, or the military industrial complex, sure. But "deep state" is so ridiculously loaded at this point and to many people implies all the associated child trafficking, blood libel, ridiculous conspiracies associated with Qanon and similar movements. People are too lazy and self-centered, and not disciplined enough to execute massive conspiracy theories like this. See John Oliver's piece on the moon landing conspiracy. That one would require I believe 400,000+ people to all be sworn to secrecy and never flap their lips.

And this is exactly what I ***DO NOT*** want to be discussing on a comic book message board. Instead of being a refuge from the news, it turns this board into more of the same depressing crap.

[daniellew61]

Yeah, I'm not arguing with you or anything, and not trying to say "don't discuss this"
I'm ..trying to be helpful I guess speaking as someone who was there..
Again, She was not the lead editor either.
"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time. Shadowman did really really well, I don't think that was solely because so many retailers wanted to do exclusives either.
But for some of the issues.....Basically, you guys giving her way too much power/credit for things... when she was not the boss at all.
No offense meant toward her work ethic or any other editor, everyone did their jobs. Under a boss.

Edited for grammar/clarity

Oh yes, Fred Pierce deserves some blame as well.

So my understanding has been that as a "senior editor", Antos would be able to impact creative decisions and hiring. She didn't sit on the hiring panels?
https://valiantentertainment.com/2020/0 ... r-editors/
"Manage editorial department" and "overseeing relationships with creators" implies some type of oversight and say, no? I'm on the outside looking in, but I'm just reading the public press releases, so I'd be interested in what the reality was.

"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time.

And in context that was a bad thing, no? "At the time" in post March 2020 is a time where only 1-2 books came out a month into early 2021? Comichron has Quantum and Woody #2 in Feb 2020 at 4K units ordered. Shadowman #1 and #2 have no sales data, but #3 is at 7k in June 2021, beating out heavy hitters Visitor #5 (3k) and Visitor #6 (2.9k). I saw a Ninjak #1 at 24k units ordered, so I'm guessing the first 2 issues are around that number.

While comichron doesn't gather everything, what units sold was the number to hit for good/this is suddenly a limited series/bad?

Just to be a little nerdy for a moment - about sales stuff????? This is more just from me personally, in general as someone who loved so many books in my retailer days, and besides Valiant as a publisher, publishing in general..... Sales as a measure of a publisher doing good or bad content can be pretty tricky as a measure of "success" - it's not always so black and white on "this side" like, in the comic world. Keep in mind, Comicchron isn't actually "real" sales numbers, especially as the series progresses, and things sell out later - they only give you for that month https://www.comichron.com/faq/directmar ... sdata.html

Plus you're counting out bookstore sales, which have collected TPBS/HC - a lot of books do way better collected - then like Barnes and Noble didn't carry Valiant for years - It's great for estimates of course, and very cool... but there is too much data not there for my liking, especially when so many books have things like returnability! Most books with returnability do well for everyone but the publisher, because stores get their money back, especially a big #1 launch but the publishers eat it. Even ones that go to 2nd printing, which you can do even if your book didn't sell out...

Long story short, numbers are annoying!... hahahahahahhaa and the measure of success depends on your boss's expectations more than anything else, more than the market standard, top 100 lists, or whatever. Publisher, retailer, it's all really kind of up to whoever is in charge, and what number they have in their head. Most people in the industry for a long time STILL think the standard is still 90s numbers/expectations, which causes a lot of disappointment and cost many people their jobs.
Yes, there are averages, reports, etc and yes WE [this board] can think of ways to measure, or use these, god knows I do, but believe me... "they" just keep moving the line. Unless you have an awesome boss like I do now! , These days, I get a lot more sleep, but even I want high numbers for the future!!!! But stores order differently now, many don't even use diamond as a distributer anymore, or can afford the shipping, or afford stocking it unless books were pre-ordered - stores are closing like CRAZY right now -

For your question judging "This is suddenly a limited series" -- hmmmm I don't actually know when and how that was decided, a lot of the time it was already planned as small arcs,as far as I know. Especially later when it was 2 books a month, the plan was to keep a rotation, or at least that's how I understood it. I don't know if that was instructed on purpose or just came naturally as pitches came in.

- The ONLY time I ever saw where there was a political thing that hurt the Valiant sales, (and I still would hear about it years later from a lot of retailers) was the Hillary Clinton cover. That had an impact on sales for sure. That was way before my time and most of the editors I worked with. No other retailers ever said they don't order Valiant for political reasons besides that, to me.

[corey]

I think it's a relevant discussion, because it gets to the big question that anyone has who is still a Valiant fan. Why does DMG own these characters and what are they doing with them?

No one is blaming everything on her, she's just the most visible and well-known figure that DMG hired to run Valiant. Same things could be being said about Illidge or others, but they just aren't as prominently known.

Well said..I think it went downhill not long after dmg takeover... just hoping for a good comeback one day.

[The Chosen 1]

Hey Danielle,

I have a serious question. I don't com from a publishing background, so i no idea what role prople play in this type of business.

But what does an actual Editor do compared to the Publisher.

I thought the Editor was someone who set the direction, kept everything cohesive (in a shared universe) and organised who did the writing, drawing lettering etc.

I thought the Publisher was the main guy at the top who put all this stuff to print and looked at the numbers.

In the case of Valient, can you explain what Heather did compared to Fred, because i genuinely don't know.

[The Chosen 1]

Yeah, I'm not arguing with you or anything, and not trying to say "don't discuss this"
I'm ..trying to be helpful I guess speaking as someone who was there..
Again, She was not the lead editor either.
"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time. Shadowman did really really well, I don't think that was solely because so many retailers wanted to do exclusives either.
But for some of the issues.....Basically, you guys giving her way too much power/credit for things... when she was not the boss at all.
No offense meant toward her work ethic or any other editor, everyone did their jobs. Under a boss.

Edited for grammar/clarity

Oh yes, Fred Pierce deserves some blame as well.

So my understanding has been that as a "senior editor", Antos would be able to impact creative decisions and hiring. She didn't sit on the hiring panels?
https://valiantentertainment.com/2020/0 ... r-editors/
"Manage editorial department" and "overseeing relationships with creators" implies some type of oversight and say, no? I'm on the outside looking in, but I'm just reading the public press releases, so I'd be interested in what the reality was.

"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time.

And in context that was a bad thing, no? "At the time" in post March 2020 is a time where only 1-2 books came out a month into early 2021? Comichron has Quantum and Woody #2 in Feb 2020 at 4K units ordered. Shadowman #1 and #2 have no sales data, but #3 is at 7k in June 2021, beating out heavy hitters Visitor #5 (3k) and Visitor #6 (2.9k). I saw a Ninjak #1 at 24k units ordered, so I'm guessing the first 2 issues are around that number.

While comichron doesn't gather everything, what units sold was the number to hit for good/this is suddenly a limited series/bad?

Just to be a little nerdy for a moment - about sales stuff????? This is more just from me personally, in general as someone who loved so many books in my retailer days, and besides Valiant as a publisher, publishing in general..... Sales as a measure of a publisher doing good or bad content can be pretty tricky as a measure of "success" - it's not always so black and white on "this side" like, in the comic world. Keep in mind, Comicchron isn't actually "real" sales numbers, especially as the series progresses, and things sell out later - they only give you for that month https://www.comichron.com/faq/directmar ... sdata.html

Plus you're counting out bookstore sales, which have collected TPBS/HC - a lot of books do way better collected - then like Barnes and Noble didn't carry Valiant for years - It's great for estimates of course, and very cool... but there is too much data not there for my liking, especially when so many books have things like returnability! Most books with returnability do well for everyone but the publisher, because stores get their money back, especially a big #1 launch but the publishers eat it. Even ones that go to 2nd printing, which you can do even if your book didn't sell out...

Long story short, numbers are annoying!... hahahahahahhaa and the measure of success depends on your boss's expectations more than anything else, more than the market standard, top 100 lists, or whatever. Publisher, retailer, it's all really kind of up to whoever is in charge, and what number they have in their head. Most people in the industry for a long time STILL think the standard is still 90s numbers/expectations, which causes a lot of disappointment and cost many people their jobs.
Yes, there are averages, reports, etc and yes WE [this board] can think of ways to measure, or use these, god knows I do, but believe me... "they" just keep moving the line. Unless you have an awesome boss like I do now! , These days, I get a lot more sleep, but even I want high numbers for the future!!!! But stores order differently now, many don't even use diamond as a distributer anymore, or can afford the shipping, or afford stocking it unless books were pre-ordered - stores are closing like CRAZY right now -

For your question judging "This is suddenly a limited series" -- hmmmm I don't actually know when and how that was decided, a lot of the time it was already planned as small arcs,as far as I know. Especially later when it was 2 books a month, the plan was to keep a rotation, or at least that's how I understood it. I don't know if that was instructed on purpose or just came naturally as pitches came in.

- The ONLY time I ever saw where there was a political thing that hurt the Valiant sales, (and I still would hear about it years later from a lot of retailers) was the Hillary Clinton cover. That had an impact on sales for sure. That was way before my time and most of the editors I worked with. No other retailers ever said they don't order Valiant for political reasons besides that, to me.

I can't wait for Szyhang28 to reply that you don't know what you're talking about. Because he knows whats really going on.

[Chiclo]

Yeah, I'm not arguing with you or anything, and not trying to say "don't discuss this"
I'm ..trying to be helpful I guess speaking as someone who was there..
Again, She was not the lead editor either.
"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time. Shadowman did really really well, I don't think that was solely because so many retailers wanted to do exclusives either.
But for some of the issues.....Basically, you guys giving her way too much power/credit for things... when she was not the boss at all.
No offense meant toward her work ethic or any other editor, everyone did their jobs. Under a boss.

Edited for grammar/clarity

Oh yes, Fred Pierce deserves some blame as well.

So my understanding has been that as a "senior editor", Antos would be able to impact creative decisions and hiring. She didn't sit on the hiring panels?
https://valiantentertainment.com/2020/0 ... r-editors/
"Manage editorial department" and "overseeing relationships with creators" implies some type of oversight and say, no? I'm on the outside looking in, but I'm just reading the public press releases, so I'd be interested in what the reality was.

"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time.

And in context that was a bad thing, no? "At the time" in post March 2020 is a time where only 1-2 books came out a month into early 2021? Comichron has Quantum and Woody #2 in Feb 2020 at 4K units ordered. Shadowman #1 and #2 have no sales data, but #3 is at 7k in June 2021, beating out heavy hitters Visitor #5 (3k) and Visitor #6 (2.9k). I saw a Ninjak #1 at 24k units ordered, so I'm guessing the first 2 issues are around that number.

While comichron doesn't gather everything, what units sold was the number to hit for good/this is suddenly a limited series/bad?

Just to be a little nerdy for a moment - about sales stuff????? This is more just from me personally, in general as someone who loved so many books in my retailer days, and besides Valiant as a publisher, publishing in general..... Sales as a measure of a publisher doing good or bad content can be pretty tricky as a measure of "success" - it's not always so black and white on "this side" like, in the comic world. Keep in mind, Comicchron isn't actually "real" sales numbers, especially as the series progresses, and things sell out later - they only give you for that month https://www.comichron.com/faq/directmar ... sdata.html

Plus you're counting out bookstore sales, which have collected TPBS/HC - a lot of books do way better collected - then like Barnes and Noble didn't carry Valiant for years - It's great for estimates of course, and very cool... but there is too much data not there for my liking, especially when so many books have things like returnability! Most books with returnability do well for everyone but the publisher, because stores get their money back, especially a big #1 launch but the publishers eat it. Even ones that go to 2nd printing, which you can do even if your book didn't sell out...

Long story short, numbers are annoying!... hahahahahahhaa and the measure of success depends on your boss's expectations more than anything else, more than the market standard, top 100 lists, or whatever. Publisher, retailer, it's all really kind of up to whoever is in charge, and what number they have in their head. Most people in the industry for a long time STILL think the standard is still 90s numbers/expectations, which causes a lot of disappointment and cost many people their jobs.
Yes, there are averages, reports, etc and yes WE [this board] can think of ways to measure, or use these, god knows I do, but believe me... "they" just keep moving the line. Unless you have an awesome boss like I do now! , These days, I get a lot more sleep, but even I want high numbers for the future!!!! But stores order differently now, many don't even use diamond as a distributer anymore, or can afford the shipping, or afford stocking it unless books were pre-ordered - stores are closing like CRAZY right now -

For your question judging "This is suddenly a limited series" -- hmmmm I don't actually know when and how that was decided, a lot of the time it was already planned as small arcs,as far as I know. Especially later when it was 2 books a month, the plan was to keep a rotation, or at least that's how I understood it. I don't know if that was instructed on purpose or just came naturally as pitches came in.

- The ONLY time I ever saw where there was a political thing that hurt the Valiant sales, (and I still would hear about it years later from a lot of retailers) was the Hillary Clinton cover. That had an impact on sales for sure. That was way before my time and most of the editors I worked with. No other retailers ever said they don't order Valiant for political reasons besides that, to me.

I can't wait for Szyhang28 to reply that you don't know what you're talking about. Because he knows whats really going on.

Oh, yes please. These flat earthers are fun to listen to.

[ManofTheAtom]

Hey Danielle,

I have a serious question. I don't com from a publishing background, so i no idea what role prople play in this type of business.

But what does an actual Editor do compared to the Publisher.

I thought the Editor was someone who set the direction, kept everything cohesive (in a shared universe) and organised who did the writing, drawing lettering etc.

I thought the Publisher was the main guy at the top who put all this stuff to print and looked at the numbers.

In the case of Valiant, can you explain what Heather did compared to Fred, because i genuinely don't know.

Comic Book Publishers

[The Chosen 1]

Hey Danielle,

I have a serious question. I don't com from a publishing background, so i no idea what role prople play in this type of business.

But what does an actual Editor do compared to the Publisher.

I thought the Editor was someone who set the direction, kept everything cohesive (in a shared universe) and organised who did the writing, drawing lettering etc.

I thought the Publisher was the main guy at the top who put all this stuff to print and looked at the numbers.

In the case of Valiant, can you explain what Heather did compared to Fred, because i genuinely don't know.

Comic Book Publishers

Thanks MOTA. I'll assume that this is what Fred Pierce does unless Danielle says otherwise.

[ManofTheAtom]

Hey Danielle,

I have a serious question. I don't com from a publishing background, so i no idea what role prople play in this type of business.

But what does an actual Editor do compared to the Publisher.

I thought the Editor was someone who set the direction, kept everything cohesive (in a shared universe) and organised who did the writing, drawing lettering etc.

I thought the Publisher was the main guy at the top who put all this stuff to print and looked at the numbers.

In the case of Valiant, can you explain what Heather did compared to Fred, because i genuinely don't know.

Comic Book Publishers

Thanks MOTA. I'll assume that this is what Fred Pierce does unless Danielle says otherwise.

No problem. And as will I, yeah.

[daniellew61]

A publisher pretty much does that description, he linked, but like, I was a sales manager who also had a bunch of other duties, then also was the manager of the interns to like, talk to colleges, make sure they were doing duties, spilled up schedules, make sure everyone got a turn in editorial tasks, managed office supplies, random things like that. Like you'd end up on different projects for different things all the time. Super easy to manage between retailer stuff, and super fun when you needed a break to go find out what the kids were doing
Keep in mind job Titles vs what people actually do doesn't always match up to the definition as you know it, or how it worked in other places.
Aside from that, I don't want to start getting more specific about other people since I don't really know EVERYTHING - I didn't have enough time to spy, or attend their meetings. I don't know their tasks then. I barely learned much more without bothering editors now remotely. I wasn't in the editorial department, or in "big" meetings, or even near their offices for like, so like, I have no idea all the responsibilities they had because I was busy working and so were all of them. I stuck more with my sales squad. I know it was always busy as hell. or oddly quiet if everyone went to a convention. I tried to learn all I could cause I'm nosey as hell but one thing I know is it is not easy!!
Fred was the publisher, but also Fred = boss, and had final approval on everything.

[ManofTheAtom]

A publisher pretty much does that description, he linked, but like, I was a sales manager who also had a bunch of other duties, then also was the manager of the interns to like, talk to colleges, make sure they were doing duties, spilled up schedules, make sure everyone got a turn in editorial tasks, managed office supplies, random things like that. Like you'd end up on different projects for different things all the time. Super easy to manage between retailer stuff, and super fun when you needed a break to go find out what the kids were doing
Keep in mind job Titles vs what people actually do doesn't always match up to the definition as you know it, or how it worked in other places.
Aside from that, I don't want to start getting more specific about other people since I don't really know EVERYTHING - I didn't have enough time to spy, or attend their meetings. I don't know their tasks then. I barely learned much more without bothering editors now remotely. I wasn't in the editorial department, or in "big" meetings, or even near their offices for like, so like, I have no idea all the responsibilities they had because I was busy working and so were all of them. I stuck more with my sales squad. I know it was always busy as hell. or oddly quiet if everyone went to a convention. I tried to learn all I could cause I'm nosey as hell but one thing I know is it is not easy!!
Fred was the publisher, but also Fred = boss, and had final approval on everything.

Cool.

[daniellew61]

I thought the Publisher was the main guy at the top who put all this stuff to print and looked at the numbers.

Nahhhh he was more involved in all the departments - but he would probably (jokingly) say that's all he does, or all he is needed for. He's a really funny guy if you ever get to meet him. [insert Rodney Dangerfield joke here]

[The Chosen 1]

I thought the Publisher was the main guy at the top who put all this stuff to print and looked at the numbers.

Nahhhh he was more involved in all the departments - but he would probably (jokingly) say that's all he does, or all he is needed for. He's a really funny guy if you ever get to meet him. [insert Rodney Dangerfield joke here]

Thanks Danielle

I appreciate you taking the time to explain it.

Commenting on here can get you 'No Respect'

[Oxmyx]

omg can this thread die? Heather was not the cause of all your problems with the company and titles. Jesus

No, that would be Dan Mintz.

Chiclo, your wisdom knows no bounds

And to everybody, I apologize for this mess. It was an honest question. But at the same time that I apologize I think it's fair to say this isn't all my fault

Going back to what The Harbinger was saying...there has been a lot of good information in this thread (about VEI, DMG, Antos, and the comics industry generally) from the sober comments.

To Gamma, I didn't realize that ComicsGate was an actual specific thing. I think a lot of people use it broadly speaking, so I don't fault myself for being confused

But anyways Gamma thanks for your good posts. Yeah, The Harbinger, too, since I mentioned him earlier.

Going back to what many have said that they want this thread to die, I wouldn't have posted today if I wasn't quite sure it won't slow this thread down one bit

[The Harbinger]

Yeah, I'm not arguing with you or anything, and not trying to say "don't discuss this"
I'm ..trying to be helpful I guess speaking as someone who was there..
Again, She was not the lead editor either.
"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time. Shadowman did really really well, I don't think that was solely because so many retailers wanted to do exclusives either.
But for some of the issues.....Basically, you guys giving her way too much power/credit for things... when she was not the boss at all.
No offense meant toward her work ethic or any other editor, everyone did their jobs. Under a boss.

Edited for grammar/clarity

Oh yes, Fred Pierce deserves some blame as well.

So my understanding has been that as a "senior editor", Antos would be able to impact creative decisions and hiring. She didn't sit on the hiring panels?
https://valiantentertainment.com/2020/0 ... r-editors/
"Manage editorial department" and "overseeing relationships with creators" implies some type of oversight and say, no? I'm on the outside looking in, but I'm just reading the public press releases, so I'd be interested in what the reality was.

"Her books" the sales did just as well as anything else Valiant was pumping out at the time.

And in context that was a bad thing, no? "At the time" in post March 2020 is a time where only 1-2 books came out a month into early 2021? Comichron has Quantum and Woody #2 in Feb 2020 at 4K units ordered. Shadowman #1 and #2 have no sales data, but #3 is at 7k in June 2021, beating out heavy hitters Visitor #5 (3k) and Visitor #6 (2.9k). I saw a Ninjak #1 at 24k units ordered, so I'm guessing the first 2 issues are around that number.

While comichron doesn't gather everything, what units sold was the number to hit for good/this is suddenly a limited series/bad?

Just to be a little nerdy for a moment - about sales stuff????? This is more just from me personally, in general as someone who loved so many books in my retailer days, and besides Valiant as a publisher, publishing in general..... Sales as a measure of a publisher doing good or bad content can be pretty tricky as a measure of "success" - it's not always so black and white on "this side" like, in the comic world. Keep in mind, Comicchron isn't actually "real" sales numbers, especially as the series progresses, and things sell out later - they only give you for that month https://www.comichron.com/faq/directmar ... sdata.html

Plus you're counting out bookstore sales, which have collected TPBS/HC - a lot of books do way better collected - then like Barnes and Noble didn't carry Valiant for years - It's great for estimates of course, and very cool... but there is too much data not there for my liking, especially when so many books have things like returnability! Most books with returnability do well for everyone but the publisher, because stores get their money back, especially a big #1 launch but the publishers eat it. Even ones that go to 2nd printing, which you can do even if your book didn't sell out...

Long story short, numbers are annoying!... hahahahahahhaa and the measure of success depends on your boss's expectations more than anything else, more than the market standard, top 100 lists, or whatever. Publisher, retailer, it's all really kind of up to whoever is in charge, and what number they have in their head. Most people in the industry for a long time STILL think the standard is still 90s numbers/expectations, which causes a lot of disappointment and cost many people their jobs.
Yes, there are averages, reports, etc and yes WE [this board] can think of ways to measure, or use these, god knows I do, but believe me... "they" just keep moving the line. Unless you have an awesome boss like I do now! , These days, I get a lot more sleep, but even I want high numbers for the future!!!! But stores order differently now, many don't even use diamond as a distributer anymore, or can afford the shipping, or afford stocking it unless books were pre-ordered - stores are closing like CRAZY right now -

Blink twice if Antos didn't do what the VEI news announcement said she was doing. I'll move past that topic

Stores ARE closing like crazy now and there is a serious issue of people not being paid. Comixology is gone. I hope there are some tangible sales goals still established to help stores and the team at both Valiant and now Alien survive and thrive. It seems Doctor Mirage numbers resulted in Visaggio needing to give $25 tarot readings over Twitter to balance "a year+ of financial distress". Part of that is the nature of freelance, but since Twitter lets us see immediate thoughts on social media, something can't be both a success/cause financial distress for its writer in a healthy industry. And Mags has a better catalog than most.

For your question judging "This is suddenly a limited series" -- hmmmm I don't actually know when and how that was decided, a lot of the time it was already planned as small arcs,as far as I know. Especially later when it was 2 books a month, the plan was to keep a rotation, or at least that's how I understood it. I don't know if that was instructed on purpose or just came naturally as pitches came in.

This part wasn't really a specific Valiant issue, but more a symptom of the gap between reality of sales and comics media telling us something is doing well. I apply the "suddenly a limited series" to comics like Unstoppable Wasp, where we get told it's so great and doing well, even though the company panicked over sales, cancelled it, then brought it back, and cancelled it again all within 2 years.

- The ONLY time I ever saw where there was a political thing that hurt the Valiant sales, (and I still would hear about it years later from a lot of retailers) was the Hillary Clinton cover. That had an impact on sales for sure. That was way before my time and most of the editors I worked with. No other retailers ever said they don't order Valiant for political reasons besides that, to me.

"Most dissatisfied customers don't let you know. They just leave and don't come back." -Jon Taffer.

How many here just disappeared quietly that were passionate enough to create an account on a non Big 2 company's message board?
viewtopic.php?t=52071
(Interestingly I recognize some posters on the hire thread embracing the politics, then here stating in this 2023 thread that the comics discussion should be a refuge from that sort of talk)

I appreciated the peak behind the scenes. We will let the thread die... on page 9

[Ryan]

viewtopic.php?t=52071
(Interestingly I recognize some posters on the hire thread embracing the politics, then here stating in this 2023 thread that the comics discussion should be a refuge from that sort of talk)

yeah because that was 4 years ago when every single comics discussion quickly devolved into SJW vs SGW(Social Grievance Warriors) blah blah blah and we realized that sucked and just want to talk comics on here?

It also sucks to see so many long-time posters on that thread that no longer post. Pointless political mudslinging is probably part of the reason. Please just go to twitter if you want to talk about that stuff.

[daniellew61]

You can do a job well, but not get things approved, or get ordered to do something else.

[ManofTheAtom]

Two discussions about Heather Antos that de-evolved into arguing over Donald Trump's crap converging.

Only, at VALIANTFans.com...

[Ryan]

Two discussions about Heather Antos that de-evolved into arguing over Donald Trump's crap converging.

Only, at VALIANTFans.com...

It's a bit inevitable when they hired Antos though, because what she's known for is being on the front lines of the comics culture war. It could have been avoided if they just hired someone who's only known for making great comics . They invited this sort of discussion/controversy. Why, I have no idea. What was the upside?

[ManofTheAtom]

Two discussions about Heather Antos that de-evolved into arguing over Donald Trump's crap converging.

Only, at VALIANTFans.com...

It's a bit inevitable when they hired Antos though, because what she's known for is being on the front lines of the comics culture war. It could have been avoided if they just hired someone who's only known for making great comics . They invited this sort of discussion/controversy. Why, I have no idea. What was the upside?

Antos and those that think like her aren't the problem, though.

The orange man-baby that whined about Mexicans all being mean rapists is.

[Ryan]

Antos and those that think like her aren't the problem, though.

The orange man-baby that whined about Mexicans all being mean rapists is.

I'm just saying that hiring her invites this exact discussion. What upside does it bring to Valiant comics? Are the people who follow and agree with her on Twitter going to start buying Valiant comics en masse? does she have some sort of unique insight into Valiant comics or how to make great, top-selling books? None of those things seem apparent to me. Let's try to keep this discussion about Valiant comics

[ManofTheAtom]

Antos and those that think like her aren't the problem, though.

The orange man-baby that whined about Mexicans all being mean rapists is.

I'm just saying that hiring her invites this exact discussion. What upside does it bring to Valiant comics? Are the people who follow and agree with her on Twitter going to start buying Valiant comics en masse? does she have some sort of unique insight into Valiant comics or how to make great, top-selling books? None of those things seem apparent to me. Let's try to keep this discussion about Valiant comics

Well, you know my stance on VALIANT and how I still very strongly believe that it should be comics about heroes that exist in the world outside our window.

That would mean that, for instance, if an orange man-child who is desperate to stay in power caused his followers to riot in Washington, you'd see Bloodshot, or Faith, or Gilad, or Quantum & Woody, or whatever go there to stop it.

You'd see more comic books with Bloodshot facing against Proud Boy-types and the like.

Captain America over at Marvel should do the same thing.

In that sense, to answer the question, do I think an editor like Antos who clearly leans to being anti-Trump would make great VALIANT comics, the answer would be yes, provided she'd be allowed to reflect the real world as it actually is and be allowed to explore the question of what it would be like if the VALIANT heroes existed in it.

At the same time, I have no issues with her ideas about diversity, inclusion, and the like, which, likewise, are a reflection of the world outside our window.

At this point in time, though, superhero fiction doesn't seem all that keen on reflecting the real world, so we don't see such things.

When it comes to her engaging in arguments on social media with people that disagree with her and the like, you might as well ask the same thing about EVS and ComicsGate. I'd much rather have people like Antos involved in comics at VALIANT and DC than people like EVS, to be honest.

[Ryan]

Antos and those that think like her aren't the problem, though.

The orange man-baby that whined about Mexicans all being mean rapists is.

I'm just saying that hiring her invites this exact discussion. What upside does it bring to Valiant comics? Are the people who follow and agree with her on Twitter going to start buying Valiant comics en masse? does she have some sort of unique insight into Valiant comics or how to make great, top-selling books? None of those things seem apparent to me. Let's try to keep this discussion about Valiant comics

Well, you know my stance on VALIANT and how I still very strongly believe that it should be comics about heroes that exist in the world outside our window.

That would mean that, for instance, if an orange man-child who is desperate to stay in power caused his followers to riot in Washington, you'd see Bloodshot, or Faith, or Gilad, or Quantum & Woody, or whatever go there to stop it.

You'd see more comic books with Bloodshot facing against Proud Boy-types and the like.

Captain America over at Marvel should do the same thing.

In that sense, to answer the question, do I think an editor like Antos who clearly leans to being anti-Trump would make great VALIANT comics, the answer would be yes, provided she'd be allowed to reflect the real world as it actually is and be allowed to explore the question of what it would be like if the VALIANT heroes existed in it.

At the same time, I have no issues with her ideas about diversity, inclusion, and the like, which, likewise, are a reflection of the world outside our window.

At this point in time, though, superhero fiction doesn't seem all that keen on reflecting the real world, so we don't see such things.

When it comes to her engaging in arguments on social media with people that disagree with her and the like, you might as well ask the same thing about EVS and ComicsGate. I'd much rather have people like Antos involved in comics at VALIANT and DC than people like EVS, to be honest.

Ok, but you're bringing in all these things that aren't being argued, and creating a false choice. There has to be some middle ground between Antos and EVS. And there has to be a way to question what Antos brings to the table *as a Valiant comics editor* without being labeled as a misogynist dump-supporter.

That's why I'm saying keep it about the comics. If you want to defend her, that's perfectly fine, but use examples of comics she's created/edited at Marvel and Valiant. Bringing in all the other stuff is just stawmen and false labeling.