So Marvels Lost Their Mind And Is Blaming Everyone Else

[dornwolf]

So Marvel I guess did a retailer summit and allowed website IC2v2 in and basically lost their damn minds. They are blaming all the low sales on such things like, "Readers don't want diversity", "Of course we'll keep cranking out endless #1's and $10 issues" "people freaked because of the election" It's really really revealing. When compared to the efforts that DC has put in to gain readers back and what Valiant and other companies are doing it's amazing.

Also not an April Fools Day prank. Seriously lost minds.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/01 ... -politics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/01 ... y-created/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/01 ... de-events/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/31 ... ion-angst/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/31 ... sive-ones/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/31 ... mbers-day/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/31 ... haracters/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/01 ... dcs-fault/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lorddunlow]

Read about this earlier. The VP of Sales is an idiot which is probably the real reason for their sales slump.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

[Brother Darque]

It's because Marvel took a heavy handed approach to ad more diversity to there line up.

You're not a misogynist if you don't like the idea of Wolverine getting killed off and being replaced by X-23 as the new Wolverine, It's that you don't like idea to just kill off a long time fan favorite character & replace him with a female version just to look more progressive.

And doing the same with the Hulk, Thor, Captain America* & Iron Man.

I have no problem with more diverse heroes. It's just that Marvel could have approached the idea differently.





*I actually think that Sam Wilson as Captain America was a good choice though.

[dornwolf]

It's because Marvel took a heavy handed approach to ad more diversity to there line up.

You're not a misogynist if you don't like the idea of Wolverine getting killed off and being replaced by X-23 as the new Wolverine, It's that you don't like idea to just kill off a long time fan favorite character & replace him with a female version just to look more progressive.

And doing the same with the Hulk, Thor, Captain America* & Iron Man.

I have no problem with more diverse heroes. It's just that Marvel could have approached the idea differently.





*I actually think that Sam Wilson as Captain America was a good choice though.

Im kinda eh about Sam. Once Steves normal again Sams back to Falcon and a footnote. I am down for that new Patriot though.

[IMJ]

Marvels agenda with this was so heavy handed, and used such obtuse tools of shaming if the readership didn't like it that I think there is a solid argument to be made aimed towards an agenda of cultural appropriation under Axel Alonso rather than actual diversity building.

I would guess that most of us (comics readers) have no problems with added diversity, but there are a lot of leftist manipulators who would villify someone for pointing out that this was an agenda in Marvels publishing model that was more about supplantation than complementation in diversity.

[Sven the Returned]

So Marvel I guess did a retailer summit and allowed website IC2v2 in and basically lost their damn minds. They are blaming all the low sales on such things like, "Readers don't want diversity", "Of course we'll keep cranking out endless #1's and $10 issues" "people freaked because of the election" It's really really revealing. When compared to the efforts that DC has put in to gain readers back and what Valiant and other companies are doing it's amazing.

Also not an April Fools Day prank. Seriously lost minds.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/01 ... -politics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/01 ... y-created/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/01 ... de-events/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/31 ... ion-angst/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/31 ... sive-ones/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/31 ... mbers-day/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/31 ... haracters/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/01 ... dcs-fault/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is this bs irony or all real? I am asking because it's j terror article.

[nonplayer]

Good let them come down from their pedestal and let someone's drive the boat. Less readers for the big 2 hopefully means more readers for Valiant.
It still bothers me that in the capital of BC Canada only 5 copies of xo came and as far as I know I got the only copy of Divinity 3#4
I so wish Valiant was bigger in my city and in Canada and it's even so much more disappointing because of the effort I have put into promoting them to my victorian brethren.

[ShadowTuga]

To me Marvel ALWAYS had diversity. Always. Some of my fav characters are women, non-white or in a particular case, both (Storm).
I remember reading the letters section from Marvel's brazilian books and the constant praise for its diversity, when (att) compared to DC. People tend to forget that a book like the New Mutants came out in 1983. There's one caucasian male in that team. One. The Mutant world has always, ALWAYS been about diversity since the ANADXM appeared for the first time. That's the "corner" that least needed this SJW wash, but *SQUEE*, even Wolverine is now a girl- and while I do like X-23, I also think that she's not the character I want to read about when I am reading "Wolverine".

Meanwhile, on the streets of NY, Luke Cage kicked *SQUEE* like nobody's business since the 70s. He was almost on the level of the Hulk, to me, as in, The Strongest Marvel Character.

Also, Black Panther is simply put, on of the coolest characters ever created in comics. I freaking loved BP as a kid. And yes, I particularly liked the fact that his home was in Africa, even if it was a fictional country. But, *SQUEE*, Africa had a superhero that was as cool as Daredevil or Moon Knight, to me (these are 2 of my absolute fav Marvels, and on that, one is blind and the other one is insane. Diversity. )

What I'm trying to say is that Marvel has a tradition of diversity in their books. While most of their characters are white and male, there's a lot of color around, still. I don't mind and actually embrace BRAND NEW characters that are diverse (still hoping for a portuguese super hero to appear somewhere... ), but replacing comic book Icons with SJW versions of those characters is lazy and wrong.

[grendeljd]

To me Marvel ALWAYS had diversity. Always. Some of my fav characters are women, non-white or in a particular case, both (Storm).
I remember reading the letters section from Marvel's brazilian books and the constant praise for its diversity, when (att) compared to DC. People tend to forget that a book like the New Mutants came out in 1983. There's one caucasian male in that team. One. The Mutant world has always, ALWAYS been about diversity since the ANADXM appeared for the first time. That's the "corner" that least needed this SJW wash, but *SQUEE*, even Wolverine is now a girl- and while I do like X-23, I also think that she's not the character I want to read about when I am reading "Wolverine".

Meanwhile, on the streets of NY, Luke Cage kicked *SQUEE* like nobody's business since the 70s. He was almost on the level of the Hulk, to me, as in, The Strongest Marvel Character.

Also, Black Panther is simply put, on of the coolest characters ever created in comics. I freaking loved BP as a kid. And yes, I particularly liked the fact that his home was in Africa, even if it was a fictional country. But, *SQUEE*, Africa had a superhero that was as cool as Daredevil or Moon Knight, to me (these are 2 of my absolute fav Marvels, and on that, one is blind and the other one is insane. Diversity. )

What I'm trying to say is that Marvel has a tradition of diversity in their books. While most of their characters are white and male, there's a lot of color around, still. I don't mind and actually embrace BRAND NEW characters that are diverse (still hoping for a portuguese super hero to appear somewhere... ), but replacing comic book Icons with SJW versions of those characters is lazy and wrong.

What really interesting about their diversity is that this isn't the first time they've made efforts to boost the level of diversity in their books. I was just reading a chapter of Marvel Comics - The Untold Story that was about a big push back in the early 70's to have more diversity, in response to fans writing in or telling Stan in person at his public appearances in colleges that they weren't diverse enough.

Funny how cyclical this industry is, and how that is just a small faceted reflection of human behaviour in general...

[Sven the Returned]

To me Marvel ALWAYS had diversity. Always. Some of my fav characters are women, non-white or in a particular case, both (Storm).
I remember reading the letters section from Marvel's brazilian books and the constant praise for its diversity, when (att) compared to DC. People tend to forget that a book like the New Mutants came out in 1983. There's one caucasian male in that team. One. The Mutant world has always, ALWAYS been about diversity since the ANADXM appeared for the first time. That's the "corner" that least needed this SJW wash, but *SQUEE*, even Wolverine is now a girl- and while I do like X-23, I also think that she's not the character I want to read about when I am reading "Wolverine".

Meanwhile, on the streets of NY, Luke Cage kicked *SQUEE* like nobody's business since the 70s. He was almost on the level of the Hulk, to me, as in, The Strongest Marvel Character.

Also, Black Panther is simply put, on of the coolest characters ever created in comics. I freaking loved BP as a kid. And yes, I particularly liked the fact that his home was in Africa, even if it was a fictional country. But, *SQUEE*, Africa had a superhero that was as cool as Daredevil or Moon Knight, to me (these are 2 of my absolute fav Marvels, and on that, one is blind and the other one is insane. Diversity. )

What I'm trying to say is that Marvel has a tradition of diversity in their books. While most of their characters are white and male, there's a lot of color around, still. I don't mind and actually embrace BRAND NEW characters that are diverse (still hoping for a portuguese super hero to appear somewhere... ), but replacing comic book Icons with SJW versions of those characters is lazy and wrong.

For some weird reason unlike tv and movie audiences most comic book fans cannot embrace new characters in high enough numbers to change the landscape.

[ilzuccone]

Welcome to Disney guys. There is a reason why Disney had to buy star wars and marvel. they absolutely suck at boy properties. I'm an OG doom and gloomer. Disney brings their money and you can say goodby to your favorite franchise lines.

I went from 30 or so bucks a week on marvel to 0. thanks disney. ya *SQUEE*.

[Sven the Returned]

Welcome to Disney guys. There is a reason why Disney had to buy star wars and marvel. they absolutely suck at boy properties. I'm an OG doom and gloomer. Disney brings their money and you can say goodby to your favorite franchise lines.

I went from 30 or so bucks a week on marvel to 0. thanks disney. ya *SQUEE*.

At least i know someone else boycotting Disney, even if it's much more recent with me.

[lorddunlow]

Welcome to Disney guys. There is a reason why Disney had to buy star wars and marvel. they absolutely suck at boy properties. I'm an OG doom and gloomer. Disney brings their money and you can say goodby to your favorite franchise lines.

I went from 30 or so bucks a week on marvel to 0. thanks disney. ya *SQUEE*.

You're a cool guy, Giant Pumpkin, and I like you, but I would ask that you reconsider thinking this way. I take all the feminists I follow on Twitter to task when they say "books for girls" or similar, and I'm gonna take you to task for saying "boy properties". There is nothing intrinsic about being male or female that predisposes one to like certain toy/ideas/stories/jobs/etc. All of that crap is created by society and people reinforcing it.

Actually pointing this actual conversation in the Disney direction, I know exactly the meaning that you trying to get at. My family and I are Disney nuts. I always have been. Disney is very "girl oriented" in their marketing. I'm using "girl oriented" because Disney actually states most of their princess stuff is "for girls" or "for little princesses". There are tons of things Disney does in the parks this way that make my son feel uncomfortable attending (but would otherwise probably enjoy as he loves both "boyish" and "girly" activities") because they say "for girls". It's frustrating.

My favorite Disney film is Beauty in the Beast. I was 10 years old when it released. I was in elementary school, I was a bookworm. I was surrounded by idiots in a rural area. I related to Belle. It never crossed my mind that I shouldn't relate to her because she was a girl. I still relate to Belle. However, over the years Disney has so totally tried to drive a stake between "content for boys" and "content for girls" that it is very hard to enjoy things for what they are. I hate it.

I hate society.


That is all. Oh. And Kamala Khan is an awesome character.

[ilzuccone]

Welcome to Disney guys. There is a reason why Disney had to buy star wars and marvel. they absolutely suck at boy properties. I'm an OG doom and gloomer. Disney brings their money and you can say goodby to your favorite franchise lines.

I went from 30 or so bucks a week on marvel to 0. thanks disney. ya *SQUEE*.

You're a cool guy, Giant Pumpkin, and I like you, but I would ask that you reconsider thinking this way. I take all the feminists I follow on Twitter to task when they say "books for girls" or similar, and I'm gonna take you to task for saying "boy properties". There is nothing intrinsic about being male or female that predisposes one to like certain toy/ideas/stories/jobs/etc. All of that crap is created by society and people reinforcing it.

Actually pointing this actual conversation in the Disney direction, I know exactly the meaning that you trying to get at. My family and I are Disney nuts. I always have been. Disney is very "girl oriented" in their marketing. I'm using "girl oriented" because Disney actually states most of their princess stuff is "for girls" or "for little princesses". There are tons of things Disney does in the parks this way that make my son feel uncomfortable attending (but would otherwise probably enjoy as he loves both "boyish" and "girly" activities") because they say "for girls". It's frustrating.

My favorite Disney film is Beauty in the Beast. I was 10 years old when it released. I was in elementary school, I was a bookworm. I was surrounded by idiots in a rural area. I related to Belle. It never crossed my mind that I shouldn't relate to her because she was a girl. I still relate to Belle. However, over the years Disney has so totally tried to drive a stake between "content for boys" and "content for girls" that it is very hard to enjoy things for what they are. I hate it.

I hate society.


That is all. Oh. And Kamala Khan is an awesome character.

You are also a cool guy and I like you.

dude. you have to get better at taking people to task. I don't feel any anger in me right now.

I don't think we can blame society completely (only mostly) for the divide in boy and girl properties. Boys and girls are different and have different interests. if you don't see the differences you should spend more time with your wife.

[possumgrease]

I don't think we can blame society completely (only mostly) for the divide in boy and girl properties. Boys and girls are different and have different interests. if you don't see the differences you should spend more time with your wife.

It's a fascinating topic. We know there are some physical differences between male and female and we know there are some physical outliers that do not fall neatly within either gender. This seems to indicate that society did not create the genders although many of us probably suspect that society shapes the opinion of the genders.

Beyond the physical, is the rest of a person the result of the environment? How do you test that?

There's research that shows that, at least with the domestication of dogs, that the color of the fur is often indicative of the level of aggression in the animal within many generations of the original "wild" ancestor. It's not to say that fur color dictates behavior, but does it not at least open up the possibility that a physical trait may be tied to a behavioral one? Of course, this line of thinking got a lot people into a lot of trouble as it quickly leads to master race building and mad scientists.

I'm rambling. Boys are girls are different; boys and girls are the same. Some boys are not like the other boys and some girls are not like the other girls. Some boys are like girls and some girls are like boys. Most boys and girls like ice cream, but others are stupid.

[TheeBaldMoose]

Most boys and girls like ice cream, but others are stupid.

Complete side note, has anyone tried gelato side by side with ice cream? Now, I do like ice cream, but i'd take gelato every day over ice cream! That ish is amazing!!

[Cyberstrike]

A YouTube video about The Real Marvel Agenda


A YouTube video about the history of Luke Cage

Both of this videos pretty much sum of my feelings on this whole subject.

[depluto]

Marvel has almost run me off completely. Only books I have left are the two Iron Man books and I'm about to drop one of them.

I get that I'm not their target audience. On the other hand, *SQUEE* them, what they are doing is stupid and it is biting them in the *SQUEE*.

[lorddunlow]

Welcome to Disney guys. There is a reason why Disney had to buy star wars and marvel. they absolutely suck at boy properties. I'm an OG doom and gloomer. Disney brings their money and you can say goodby to your favorite franchise lines.

I went from 30 or so bucks a week on marvel to 0. thanks disney. ya *SQUEE*.

You're a cool guy, Giant Pumpkin, and I like you, but I would ask that you reconsider thinking this way. I take all the feminists I follow on Twitter to task when they say "books for girls" or similar, and I'm gonna take you to task for saying "boy properties". There is nothing intrinsic about being male or female that predisposes one to like certain toy/ideas/stories/jobs/etc. All of that crap is created by society and people reinforcing it.

Actually pointing this actual conversation in the Disney direction, I know exactly the meaning that you trying to get at. My family and I are Disney nuts. I always have been. Disney is very "girl oriented" in their marketing. I'm using "girl oriented" because Disney actually states most of their princess stuff is "for girls" or "for little princesses". There are tons of things Disney does in the parks this way that make my son feel uncomfortable attending (but would otherwise probably enjoy as he loves both "boyish" and "girly" activities") because they say "for girls". It's frustrating.

My favorite Disney film is Beauty in the Beast. I was 10 years old when it released. I was in elementary school, I was a bookworm. I was surrounded by idiots in a rural area. I related to Belle. It never crossed my mind that I shouldn't relate to her because she was a girl. I still relate to Belle. However, over the years Disney has so totally tried to drive a stake between "content for boys" and "content for girls" that it is very hard to enjoy things for what they are. I hate it.

I hate society.


That is all. Oh. And Kamala Khan is an awesome character.

You are also a cool guy and I like you.

dude. you have to get better at taking people to task. I don't feel any anger in me right now.

I don't think we can blame society completely (only mostly) for the divide in boy and girl properties. Boys and girls are different and have different interests. if you don't see the differences you should spend more time with your wife.

There is no biological reason for a child with a penis to like to play with trucks and guns and cowboys and a child with a vagina to like to play with dolls and dresses and fairies.

In fact, the hormones involved in turning a vagina (we all start out in the womb as girls) into a penis have virtually no effect on the brain. Hormones that create breasts and body hair and aggressive or nurturing tendencies are at exactly the same levels in all toddlers and don't fluctuate and differentiate until just before puberty. That means that as far as behaviors go, none can be attributed to sex until puberty.

There are definitely differences in how hormones affect behavior, but that is vary dependent on each individual's particular ratios of estrogen to testosterone. Most males produce much more testosterone than estrogen and vice versa. But that's just on average. It is a bell shaped curve with some flip flopped. It doesn't make a kid with a penis a girl because of other underlying hormones that were what created the penis in the first place which also surge at puberty. But it definitely causes the opposite behavioral cues.

The only things that aren't determined by society are the literal physical changes: increased muscle mass in males after puberty, some changes to the brain causing a predisposition to aggressive behaviors, and typical male hair distribution. Females get mammals gland maturation and changes to bone structure to accommodate childbirth and nursing with some changes to the brain to predispose to nurturing/intimacy.

Anything beyond that is forced on children by adults.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

[Chiclo]

(still hoping for a portuguese super hero to appear somewhere... )

DC's Fire is Brazilian. That's basically Portuguese, right?

[Sven the Returned]

Welcome to Disney guys. There is a reason why Disney had to buy star wars and marvel. they absolutely suck at boy properties. I'm an OG doom and gloomer. Disney brings their money and you can say goodby to your favorite franchise lines.

I went from 30 or so bucks a week on marvel to 0. thanks disney. ya *SQUEE*.

You're a cool guy, Giant Pumpkin, and I like you, but I would ask that you reconsider thinking this way. I take all the feminists I follow on Twitter to task when they say "books for girls" or similar, and I'm gonna take you to task for saying "boy properties". There is nothing intrinsic about being male or female that predisposes one to like certain toy/ideas/stories/jobs/etc. All of that crap is created by society and people reinforcing it.

Actually pointing this actual conversation in the Disney direction, I know exactly the meaning that you trying to get at. My family and I are Disney nuts. I always have been. Disney is very "girl oriented" in their marketing. I'm using "girl oriented" because Disney actually states most of their princess stuff is "for girls" or "for little princesses". There are tons of things Disney does in the parks this way that make my son feel uncomfortable attending (but would otherwise probably enjoy as he loves both "boyish" and "girly" activities") because they say "for girls". It's frustrating.

My favorite Disney film is Beauty in the Beast. I was 10 years old when it released. I was in elementary school, I was a bookworm. I was surrounded by idiots in a rural area. I related to Belle. It never crossed my mind that I shouldn't relate to her because she was a girl. I still relate to Belle. However, over the years Disney has so totally tried to drive a stake between "content for boys" and "content for girls" that it is very hard to enjoy things for what they are. I hate it.

I hate society.


That is all. Oh. And Kamala Khan is an awesome character.

If you hate society i guess people from earlier centuries should had commited suicide right after birth. The world is never better despite the clouds ahead.

[ShadowTuga]

(still hoping for a portuguese super hero to appear somewhere... )

DC's Fire is Brazilian. That's basically Portuguese, right?

No. No. Absolutely not. But good pull, I actually kinda "like" Fire, just because of that.
They also have Sunspot, from Marvel's mutie world.
Fun fact: both are HOT (as in, generate heat) and are named "da Costa".

[lorddunlow]

Welcome to Disney guys. There is a reason why Disney had to buy star wars and marvel. they absolutely suck at boy properties. I'm an OG doom and gloomer. Disney brings their money and you can say goodby to your favorite franchise lines.

I went from 30 or so bucks a week on marvel to 0. thanks disney. ya *SQUEE*.

You're a cool guy, Giant Pumpkin, and I like you, but I would ask that you reconsider thinking this way. I take all the feminists I follow on Twitter to task when they say "books for girls" or similar, and I'm gonna take you to task for saying "boy properties". There is nothing intrinsic about being male or female that predisposes one to like certain toy/ideas/stories/jobs/etc. All of that crap is created by society and people reinforcing it.

Actually pointing this actual conversation in the Disney direction, I know exactly the meaning that you trying to get at. My family and I are Disney nuts. I always have been. Disney is very "girl oriented" in their marketing. I'm using "girl oriented" because Disney actually states most of their princess stuff is "for girls" or "for little princesses". There are tons of things Disney does in the parks this way that make my son feel uncomfortable attending (but would otherwise probably enjoy as he loves both "boyish" and "girly" activities") because they say "for girls". It's frustrating.

My favorite Disney film is Beauty in the Beast. I was 10 years old when it released. I was in elementary school, I was a bookworm. I was surrounded by idiots in a rural area. I related to Belle. It never crossed my mind that I shouldn't relate to her because she was a girl. I still relate to Belle. However, over the years Disney has so totally tried to drive a stake between "content for boys" and "content for girls" that it is very hard to enjoy things for what they are. I hate it.

I hate society.


That is all. Oh. And Kamala Khan is an awesome character.

If you hate society i guess people from earlier centuries should had commited suicide right after birth. The world is never better despite the clouds ahead.

People as individuals are perfectly fine. Groups of people are the problem.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

[Sven the Returned]

Welcome to Disney guys. There is a reason why Disney had to buy star wars and marvel. they absolutely suck at boy properties. I'm an OG doom and gloomer. Disney brings their money and you can say goodby to your favorite franchise lines.

I went from 30 or so bucks a week on marvel to 0. thanks disney. ya *SQUEE*.

You're a cool guy, Giant Pumpkin, and I like you, but I would ask that you reconsider thinking this way. I take all the feminists I follow on Twitter to task when they say "books for girls" or similar, and I'm gonna take you to task for saying "boy properties". There is nothing intrinsic about being male or female that predisposes one to like certain toy/ideas/stories/jobs/etc. All of that crap is created by society and people reinforcing it.

Actually pointing this actual conversation in the Disney direction, I know exactly the meaning that you trying to get at. My family and I are Disney nuts. I always have been. Disney is very "girl oriented" in their marketing. I'm using "girl oriented" because Disney actually states most of their princess stuff is "for girls" or "for little princesses". There are tons of things Disney does in the parks this way that make my son feel uncomfortable attending (but would otherwise probably enjoy as he loves both "boyish" and "girly" activities") because they say "for girls". It's frustrating.

My favorite Disney film is Beauty in the Beast. I was 10 years old when it released. I was in elementary school, I was a bookworm. I was surrounded by idiots in a rural area. I related to Belle. It never crossed my mind that I shouldn't relate to her because she was a girl. I still relate to Belle. However, over the years Disney has so totally tried to drive a stake between "content for boys" and "content for girls" that it is very hard to enjoy things for what they are. I hate it.

I hate society.


That is all. Oh. And Kamala Khan is an awesome character.

If you hate society i guess people from earlier centuries should had commited suicide right after birth. The world is never better despite the clouds ahead.

People as individuals are perfectly fine. Groups of people are the problem.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

If you look at historical norms for groups and current norms in large swaths of the world, we are living in paradise.

[Chiclo]

(still hoping for a portuguese super hero to appear somewhere... )

DC's Fire is Brazilian. That's basically Portuguese, right?

No. No. Absolutely not. But good pull, I actually kinda "like" Fire, just because of that.
They also have Sunspot, from Marvel's mutie world.
Fun fact: both are HOT (as in, generate heat) and are named "da Costa".

I forgot about Sunspot!