Key Valiant Entertainment Issues

[StarBrand]

I'm the kind of guy who goes into things with a lot of enthusiasm sometimes. When Dark Horse launched Doctor Solar with Jim Shooter scripts in 2010 I bought 50 or 75 copies. I don't recall which. I still have most of them. It's probably a loss, and I had to chalk that up to being enthused over the book. When VEI launched, I bought 100 X-O 1s and 100 Harbinger 1s. I then pieced together almost 50 Bloodshot 1 1st prints, and over 25 Bloodshot 1 2nd prints. I think I have about 15 Archer & Armstrong 1 first prints, and maybe 10 2nd prints. I have a seriously huge hoard of VEI 2nd prints, which I believe will sooner or later take off because of the low print runs on those.
I've sold a few X-O 1s and Harbinger 1s, but I have no desire to part with additional copies at less than ten bucks each. Same with the Bloodshot 1s and Archer & Armstrong 1s. Those will break ten bucks each at some point, and maybe soon given the movie news and I'm not selling them for less than that. I'm thinking of pulling all key VEI books from my listings. Like I pointed out earlier, the movie deal has driven V1 keys up in price, but not VEI keys. That will correct at some point and the
VEI keys will take off. I'm going to start hoarding more of them now.

[greg]

It's an interesting situation.

Picture it... a character gets his own line of comics, but he had a first appearance in another title.
Then... over a decade later... another line of comics for the same character starts with issue #1.

Now... allow almost 40 years to pass since the second line of comics started... what would you think the market price ratio is between the two #1 issues?
What do you think the first appearance (now over 50 years old) would cost relative to the first #1... or relative to the second #1?

Did you guess that the first #1 would be about 1,000 times more valuable than the second #1?

Because that's what has happened with Amazing Spider-man #1 (1963) and Spectacular Spider-man #1 (1976).
Amazing Fantasy #15 (the grail book) is even more valuable than Amazing Spider-man #1.

[StarBrand]

It's very interesting, and you make some good comparisons. Right now VEI keys are available at the prices they were before the huge announcement. That's almost a no-brainer they are bargains at the moment.

[greg]

My real concern is that VEI has printed so many different covers for these books that no matter how "key" the contents become, there'll only be one variant that rules the others.

Let's say Darpan becomes the most important character in Valiant... and Harbinger #2 (2012) is his first appearance.
Will the regular cover really be valuable? Or will it just be the limited 1:20 cover that is key?

We can safely say that the #2 regular will never approach the value of the #2 variant... so it will always be "held back" by itself (with a different cover).

That's my real problem with variants... any time a book has a variant... it means that the MAJORITY of copies printed aren't as good.

Having extra covers DOES help with sales... for that one month... but it hurts the back issue excitement/collectability/demand... forever.

[StarBrand]

There are books we can point to like Superman 75 where both the rare Variant and the regular issue went up. Also coming to mind is the first appearance of Anti-Venom. All covers of that book have gone way up. I'm sure I could think of many more.

[StarBrand]

Does anyone remember the rumor that Harbinger 2 was under printed when it hit?

[nycjadie]

My real concern is that VEI has printed so many different covers for these books that no matter how "key" the contents become, there'll only be one variant that rules the others.

Let's say Darpan becomes the most important character in Valiant... and Harbinger #2 (2012) is his first appearance.
Will the regular cover really be valuable? Or will it just be the limited 1:20 cover that is key?

We can safely say that the #2 regular will never approach the value of the #2 variant... so it will always be "held back" by itself (with a different cover).

That's my real problem with variants... any time a book has a variant... it means that the MAJORITY of copies printed aren't as good.

Having extra covers DOES help with sales... for that one month... but it hurts the back issue excitement/collectability/demand... forever.

Agreed. I think it hurts overall long term. It's like brand dilution, and while I like the incentive and non-incentive covers, I do think it impacts value.

[StarBrand]

Aren't there numerous examples of Marvel putting out incentive variants and the regular issues take off in value?

[jmatt]

Not sure I can agree that A&A #1 is a cameo for Ivar.
He's featured in the first pages of the issue... establishing the "immortal" origins.

I agree.

We can safely say that the #2 regular will never approach the value of the #2 variant... so it will always be "held back" by itself (with a different cover).

I think it works both ways: The lesser quantity variant pulls up the regular and the regular pulls down the variant. Buyers all have different budgets and pricepoints at which they have to walk away.

The sailing price of the variant makes the issue, in general, more desirable pulls up the regular.

But the people who can't afford the variant can always opt for the regular and get most of what's important (ownership of a desirable book) without paying the premium for the 'hot' cover. The has a downward pressure on the variant because it's competing against the regular.

[geocarr]

It's an interesting situation.

Picture it... a character gets his own line of comics, but he had a first appearance in another title.
Then... over a decade later... another line of comics for the same character starts with issue #1.

Now... allow almost 40 years to pass since the second line of comics started... what would you think the market price ratio is between the two #1 issues?
What do you think the first appearance (now over 50 years old) would cost relative to the first #1... or relative to the second #1?

Did you guess that the first #1 would be about 1,000 times more valuable than the second #1?

Because that's what has happened with Amazing Spider-man #1 (1963) and Spectacular Spider-man #1 (1976).
Amazing Fantasy #15 (the grail book) is even more valuable than Amazing Spider-man #1.

I think Groot is a similar example where the most valuable and sought after back issues are the ones that have nothing to do with Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Elveen]

In the modern market the regular and the variant can both be uber valuable.

EoSV #2

[kjjohanson]

I'd list X-O #1 as first appearance of Gilad (cameo) and A&A #5 as first full appearance (and first cover).

Same for Ivar. A&A #1 (cameo) and A&A #12 (full).

Not sure I can agree that A&A #1 is a cameo for Ivar.
He's featured in the first pages of the issue... establishing the "immortal" origins.

He's probably on more pages in A&A #1 than he is in A&A #12.

You're correct. I was going on memory and not thinking about the intro with the Boon, but rather just remembering the apparition.

Either way, X-O #1 is a Gilad cameo, I would say. He plays no significant role in the story and is mainly there as a teaser, I think we can all agree.

[DirtbagSailor]

Taking the list an applying specific scarcity and potential demand:

ARCHER & ARMSTRONG #0 - 1:20 Fowler Gatefold Variant
(Explains much of the VEI Universe. First appearance the Faraway.)

ARCHER & ARMSTRONG #1 - 1:100 Adams Line Variant & Suayan Gold Edition
(First VEI Archer & Armstrong, first VEI appearance of Ivar)

ARCHER & ARMSTRONG #6 - Zircher Incentive Variant & Lupacchino Regular
(1st VEI Geomancer-Kay McHenery)

ARCHER & ARMSTRONG #12 - Lupacchino Regular
(Faraway Origin/Ivar Future Revelations)

BLEEDING MONK #0 - 1:25 Suayan Variant

BLOODSHOT #1 - Lozzi Gold Edition & 1:50 Ribic Variant
(First VEI Bloodshot)

ETERNAL WARRIOR #5 - 1:50 Mack Variant
(Established VEI's 4001 Universe)

HARBINGER #1 - 1:50 Djurdjevic QR Variant & Lozzi Gold Edition
(First VEI Harbinger and Harada, first Bleeding Monk)

HARBINGER #2 - 1:20 Braithwaite Variant
(First Darpan)

HARBINGER #3 - 1:20 Zircher Variant
(First VEI Livewire)

HARBINGER #5 - Suayan Regular & Aja Design Variant
(Birth of the Renegades)

HARBINGER #23 - 1:20 Evans Variant
(Death of a Flamingo)

HARBINGER WARS #1 of 4 - 1:50 Zircher Variant
(First Cronos)

HARBINGER WARS #3 of 4 - 1:50 Zircher Variant
(First VEI Hard Corps)

SHADOWMAN #1 - Zircher Gold Edition
(first VEI Shadowman, first VEI Master D'arque)

SHADOWMAN #5 - 1:125 Grampa Line Variant
(1st appearance of Shan Fong as Dr. Mirage)

SUMMER OF VALIANT TPB

X-0 MANOWAR #1 - 1:50 Djurdjevic QR Variant & Ribic Gold Edition
(First VEI X-O Manowar in new continuity, first VEI Eternal Warrior, first Vine.)

X-O MANOWAR #5 - 1:50 Zircher Variant
(1st VEI Ninjak)

X-O MANOWAR #11 - 1:50 Sears Variant
(first Torment)

VALIANT 2012 SUMMER PREVIEW
(1st VEI Published Comic; 1st appearance of VEI X-0 MANOWAR & HARBINGER)

[mkb28]

I'd list X-O #1 as first appearance of Gilad (cameo) and A&A #5 as first full appearance (and first cover).

Same for Ivar. A&A #1 (cameo) and A&A #12 (full).

Not sure I can agree that A&A #1 is a cameo for Ivar.
He's featured in the first pages of the issue... establishing the "immortal" origins.

He's probably on more pages in A&A #1 than he is in A&A #12.

You're correct. I was going on memory and not thinking about the intro with the Boon, but rather just remembering the apparition.

Either way, X-O #1 is a Gilad cameo, I would say. He plays no significant role in the story and is mainly there as a teaser, I think we can all agree.

Can anyone tell me what page or panel Gilad appears in X-O #1? I think I have checked a couple of times and was not sure where he appears.

Thanks,

Mkb28

[AnthonyF]

VALIANT 2012 SUMMER PREVIEW
(1st VEI Published Comic; 1st appearance of VEI X-0 MANOWAR & HARBINGER)

I haven't flipped through it in a while (3 years...) but doesn't it advertise A&A or Bloodshot?

[DirtbagSailor]

VALIANT 2012 SUMMER PREVIEW
(1st VEI Published Comic; 1st appearance of VEI X-0 MANOWAR & HARBINGER)

I haven't flipped through it in a while (3 years...) but doesn't it advertise A&A or Bloodshot?

I thin so, which further builds the case for its significance.

[jeremycoe]

I'd list X-O #1 as first appearance of Gilad (cameo) and A&A #5 as first full appearance (and first cover).

Same for Ivar. A&A #1 (cameo) and A&A #12 (full).

Not sure I can agree that A&A #1 is a cameo for Ivar.
He's featured in the first pages of the issue... establishing the "immortal" origins.

He's probably on more pages in A&A #1 than he is in A&A #12.

You're correct. I was going on memory and not thinking about the intro with the Boon, but rather just remembering the apparition.

Either way, X-O #1 is a Gilad cameo, I would say. He plays no significant role in the story and is mainly there as a teaser, I think we can all agree.

Can anyone tell me what page or panel Gilad appears in X-O #1? I think I have checked a couple of times and was not sure where he appears.

Thanks,

Mkb28

Page 7 - He rides up and tells Alaric "The Roman Artillery is too much! Our lines falter!" and then "Yes, my king." in the next panel. I think.

[lorddunlow]

My on one aspect: no way preview appearances will become a thing that values a book because there will be no way to determine which book with the preview in a VEI book was the first published since every book in a given month has the same damn preview in it. Three books released the same day all have the same preview in them. Which one would be credited as first? Because of this dilemma, I predict preview appearances will be of no increased value.

[DirtbagSailor]

I predict preview appearances will be of no increased value.

They sort of already are.

[lorddunlow]

I predict preview appearances will be of no increased value.

They sort of already are.

Really?

I think the Summer Preview could be because it's the first book with unique material, but the other previews? Really? How does one determine which is first?

[DirtbagSailor]

I predict preview appearances will be of no increased value.

They sort of already are.

Really?

I think the Summer Preview could be because it's the first book with unique material, but the other previews? Really? How does one determine which is first?

Summer Preview 2012. That's what I'm referencing.

[geocarr]

I predict preview appearances will be of no increased value.

They sort of already are.

Really?

I think the Summer Preview could be because it's the first book with unique material, but the other previews? Really? How does one determine which is first?

Summer Preview 2012. That's what I'm referencing.

Which would you choose if price were the same - 9.8 Valiant Summer Preview 2012 or 9.8 X-O Manowar #1 QR cover?

[DirtbagSailor]

I predict preview appearances will be of no increased value.

They sort of already are.

Really?

I think the Summer Preview could be because it's the first book with unique material, but the other previews? Really? How does one determine which is first?

Summer Preview 2012. That's what I'm referencing.

Which would you choose if price were the same - 9.8 Valiant Summer Preview 2012 or 9.8 X-O Manowar #1 QR cover?

Both? Clearly the QR is in lower quantities and much harder to obtain in 9.8 condition. I wouldn't rank the Preview above QR, or put it near the top of the list even. But the Preview should be on the list.

[StarBrand]

In the modern market the regular and the variant can both be uber valuable.

EoSV #2

Amazing Spider-Man 4, 1st Silk.

[StarBrand]

If I missed anything I need to put in the top post, please remind me someone.