Archer & Armstrong #22 Discussion

[BugsySig]

Another fantastic issue. It's still up in the air if MM is Archer's mother. Could be a bait and switch by FVL, or a bait and switch and switch. One reason why I love it.

The fight between Aram and Obie was fantastic. Even had a great one liner about the Bleeding Monk

Man I love this book. I really hope FVL's run is not ending and He will still be around for a long time

[Ibero]

I agree, the fight was awesome.I still dont know what the hole medieval knights was all about, but it was really funny.

I was a middle issue of the story, so it didnt have so much meat, but i still like it a lot.

[DirtbagSailor]

A&A -- NOW with intimidatingly LARGE penis...



DBS

[Keith]

Loved this issue, but will definitely need to re-read. Not quite clear to me what FVL is getting at. The grail legend is symbolic for the akashic record? Elvis is Jesus?

But loved the fight between A & A... did not see that coming, nice unexpected twist. And the scene in the beginning with Percival and Bors - I do hope that means Ivar will be making another appearance!

[grendeljd]

Yep. Fantastic issue once again. Lots of great moments, one-liners that had me literally lol'ing & that little mention of Aram knowing the Bleeding Monk! Loving this American Wasteland story.

And normally it turns me off a little bit when FVL writes modern slang dialogue into flashback scenes from historical periods, but I liked it this time out. My favourite bit of dialogue was Arams speech prior to fighting Obie - great character defining dialogue right there.

Also, tons of fantastic work by Pere Perez this issue. Give that man a Harvey award!!

[pixierosa]

This was my book of the week. Advanced the story along, redeemed Aram a bit and tarnished Obie's halo a bit (which was good). Inbetween goofy lines and sticks up butts (literally), we got to experience what it's like to be in Aram's head, get a few surprises like the Bleeding Monk, and see that even Obie can desire to wield power - and that no one should have that sort of power.

Bonus - it looks like the Ma and Pa Archer are gone for good! That was kind of glossed over, but Obie did kill his parents in a way. Speaking of, glad that MM isn't the mother, but who is, if she's still in the hotel?

[jmatt]

Not quite clear to me what FVL is getting at. The grail legend is symbolic for the akashic record? Elvis is Jesus?

Yeah, there was a bunch of quasi-symbolism that read good but doesn't make much sense when you think about it.

Actually, almost nothing has been explained yet. Like why is an alive Jim Morrison keeping a hotel full of dead celebrities that can't die until they're forgotten, at which point they go out a window to a wasteland that was created somehow by Mary Maria back in 1923? How and why is the Akashic record tied into this? Ditto for the Wheel of Aten, which is actually a working replica of part of the Boon that Aram constructed for an ancient Egyptian pharaoh? This has been a lot of fun but none of it makes sense.

But a thoroughly enjoyable issue, to be sure. I love Perez.

[hunter_peterson]

Not quite clear to me what FVL is getting at. The grail legend is symbolic for the akashic record? Elvis is Jesus?

Yeah, there was a bunch of quasi-symbolism that read good but doesn't make much sense when you think about it.

Actually, almost nothing has been explained yet. Like why is an alive Jim Morrison keeping a hotel full of dead celebrities that can't die until they're forgotten, at which point they go out a window to a wasteland that was created somehow by Mary Maria back in 1923? How and why is the Akashic record tied into this? Ditto for the Wheel of Aten, which is actually a working replica of part of the Boon that Aram constructed for an ancient Egyptian pharaoh? This has been a lot of fun but none of it makes sense.

But a thoroughly enjoyable issue, to be sure. I love Perez.

Well, if the Mary Maria theory is true, or Archer's powers at least derived from the Boon somehow, then the part being able to access the Akashic record makes sense... but yeah, next issue needs to clarify a LOT.

Great issue. Any time Armstrong fights in a ridiculous and badass manner is a good time. Also, the one liners were great! This arc has been absolutely wonderful!

[BugsySig]

Not quite clear to me what FVL is getting at. The grail legend is symbolic for the akashic record? Elvis is Jesus?

Yeah, there was a bunch of quasi-symbolism that read good but doesn't make much sense when you think about it.

Actually, almost nothing has been explained yet. Like why is an alive Jim Morrison keeping a hotel full of dead celebrities that can't die until they're forgotten, at which point they go out a window to a wasteland that was created somehow by Mary Maria back in 1923? How and why is the Akashic record tied into this? Ditto for the Wheel of Aten, which is actually a working replica of part of the Boon that Aram constructed for an ancient Egyptian pharaoh? This has been a lot of fun but none of it makes sense.

But a thoroughly enjoyable issue, to be sure. I love Perez.

I think the whole purpose of the Bores/Galahad scene was to show that no one had/has a real idea what the grail is/was or who it belonged to.

That being said, there appears to be a link between the Grail Castle and the Hotel. At the end of the scene, what appears to be the silhouettes of Archer and Armstrong appear. Mary-Maria has possibly retreated to the past with Elvis (the Fisher King who's castle the knights were searching for). Especially since the spinning Wheel resembles a chalice, and was already referred to by Elvis as the Grail.

And if MM is/was pregnant and is Obie's mother, his development and/or birth taking place in the Hotel, which is a representation of the Akashik record, makes sense given his power set.

As for Morison...since we know people can escape the Hotel, he likely did and learned how to tap into the power it was siphoning off of the dead celebrities.

The Wheel traps the "souls" of those we remember in the Akashik record, a record of all Earth's history and knowledge past and future, just as the Boon traps souls in the body of a vessel. The wasteland is where they go when they are forgotten...I believe this is how their souls are released. Why celebrities? Because the Wheel was activated in Hollywood. At least that's my theory

[Newton]

Fantastic issue. I really think this title is coming into it's own. I feel like this book is right up there with Harbinger and XO in terms of how much potential it has.

[jmatt]

Not quite clear to me what FVL is getting at. The grail legend is symbolic for the akashic record? Elvis is Jesus?

Yeah, there was a bunch of quasi-symbolism that read good but doesn't make much sense when you think about it.

Actually, almost nothing has been explained yet. Like why is an alive Jim Morrison keeping a hotel full of dead celebrities that can't die until they're forgotten, at which point they go out a window to a wasteland that was created somehow by Mary Maria back in 1923? How and why is the Akashic record tied into this? Ditto for the Wheel of Aten, which is actually a working replica of part of the Boon that Aram constructed for an ancient Egyptian pharaoh? This has been a lot of fun but none of it makes sense.

But a thoroughly enjoyable issue, to be sure. I love Perez.

I think the whole purpose of the Bores/Galahad scene was to show that no one had/has a real idea what the grail is/was or who it belonged to.

That being said, there appears to be a link between the Grail Castle and the Hotel. At the end of the scene, what appears to be the silhouettes of Archer and Armstrong appear. Mary-Maria has possibly retreated to the past with Elvis (the Fisher King who's castle the knights were searching for). Especially since the spinning Wheel resembles a chalice, and was already referred to by Elvis as the Grail.

And if MM is/was pregnant and is Obie's mother, his development and/or birth taking place in the Hotel, which is a representation of the Akashik record, makes sense given his power set.

As for Morison...since we know people can escape the Hotel, he likely did and learned how to tap into the power it was siphoning off of the dead celebrities.

The Wheel traps the "souls" of those we remember in the Akashik record, a record of all Earth's history and knowledge past and future, just as the Boon traps souls in the body of a vessel. The wasteland is where they go when they are forgotten...I believe this is how their souls are released. Why celebrities? Because the Wheel was activated in Hollywood. At least that's my theory

For something this murky that could all use a lot more narrative in the book. Like they were slowly piecing together a puzzle. I'm sure it would make more sense read as an entire arc.

[jmatt]

Oh, and one other question: What the heck is Archer laughing at on the cover? Is Aram trying to smash an oversized bottle of Lizard King liquor or something? I missed the gag.

[dornwolf]

Oh, and one other question: What the heck is Archer laughing at on the cover? Is Aram trying to smash an oversized bottle of Lizard King liquor or something? I missed the gag.

as a fan of classic rock I feel so sad right now. All the covers for American Wasteland have been spoofs of classic album covers

The cover is a spoof of The Clash London Calling album cover. Archer laughing was added in as they need him to do something as only one person is on the album cover smashing a guitar.

EDIT: If it helps any

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vHvzybkqfo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jmatt]

The cover is a spoof of The Clash London Calling album cover.

Thanks, I'm not familiar with that cover. Although I will admit to be old enough to have seen them live in my college gymnasium back in 1982, during the Combat Rock tour. I think the audience was maybe 500 people. Rock the Casbah was huge that year.

[Tim]

Bah...add this one to the "buy-but-don't-read" pile. This book hasn't clicked for me since the Faraway stuff and even then the click was barely audible. Van Lente's Magnus is so much better.

[dornwolf]

Bah...add this one to the "buy-but-don't-read" pile. This book hasn't clicked for me since the Faraway stuff and even then the click was barely audible. Van Lente's Magnus is so much better.

Really? While I'll admit his Magnus run is the best dyna-key book out there it hasn't clicked for me at all on the level this book and the other valiant books have.

[BugsySig]

Not quite clear to me what FVL is getting at. The grail legend is symbolic for the akashic record? Elvis is Jesus?

Yeah, there was a bunch of quasi-symbolism that read good but doesn't make much sense when you think about it.

Actually, almost nothing has been explained yet. Like why is an alive Jim Morrison keeping a hotel full of dead celebrities that can't die until they're forgotten, at which point they go out a window to a wasteland that was created somehow by Mary Maria back in 1923? How and why is the Akashic record tied into this? Ditto for the Wheel of Aten, which is actually a working replica of part of the Boon that Aram constructed for an ancient Egyptian pharaoh? This has been a lot of fun but none of it makes sense.

But a thoroughly enjoyable issue, to be sure. I love Perez.

I think the whole purpose of the Bores/Galahad scene was to show that no one had/has a real idea what the grail is/was or who it belonged to.

That being said, there appears to be a link between the Grail Castle and the Hotel. At the end of the scene, what appears to be the silhouettes of Archer and Armstrong appear. Mary-Maria has possibly retreated to the past with Elvis (the Fisher King who's castle the knights were searching for). Especially since the spinning Wheel resembles a chalice, and was already referred to by Elvis as the Grail.

And if MM is/was pregnant and is Obie's mother, his development and/or birth taking place in the Hotel, which is a representation of the Akashik record, makes sense given his power set.

As for Morison...since we know people can escape the Hotel, he likely did and learned how to tap into the power it was siphoning off of the dead celebrities.

The Wheel traps the "souls" of those we remember in the Akashik record, a record of all Earth's history and knowledge past and future, just as the Boon traps souls in the body of a vessel. The wasteland is where they go when they are forgotten...I believe this is how their souls are released. Why celebrities? Because the Wheel was activated in Hollywood. At least that's my theory

For something this murky that could all use a lot more narrative in the book. Like they were slowly piecing together a puzzle. I'm sure it would make more sense read as an entire arc.

It's coming. Still another issue in the arc to tie it all together.

Everything always reads better as a whole arc, but isn't the month to month mystery part of the fun?

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

It's just never ever bad! Love Pere Perez, and of course, FVL is killin it!

[bygranddesign]

ahhhhhh.... what a great issue.

After catching up all day today with the Armor Hunters event so far - it was nice to sit down and read A&A - a well written self contained arc with no big event attached. Just your run of the mill character building, time travelling, Wheel of Aten Celebrity spirit trapping, Is my sister and love interest, really my mommy(?) storyline.

Just a joy to read. FVL is brilliant. Perez is brilliant - I'm so happy he got nominated for a Harvey.

I'm not quite sure I completely understood the historical references with the holy grail ... and the King ... and how it relates to this story but it all works nonetheless. Its just a fun read. And I really hope FVL continues to write this series.

[ShadowTuga]

This series is crazy from the beginning, but the level of insanity in this arc is something else. Great read, fun, fun, fun. Will have to re-read it (and the whole arc, before it wraps) since it has a lot of meat. Seeing Obie using Flamingo's ability was cool but also very sad, because it reminded me of her.


Pere Perez!

[leonmallett]

Even though there has been strong competition from books like Harbinger recently, Archer and Armstrong remains my favourite book through all of its run, and the latest issue is another great one.

The book combines adventure and humour in balance, something VEI should think about with regard to future Quantum and Woody plans IMHO. The art is a perfect fit and this issue had so many great scenes, possibly my favourite including the panel in the third post above.

Great stuff.

[Keith]

The argument between Archer and Armstrong about using the Wheel, and Archer wanting to use it to eliminate the bad things in the world got me thinking, so I went back and read the infamous A&A #12. The Seven Sages in the Faraway give Obie one final piece of advice:

"Trying to save the world doesn't just break it further. Also... it breaks you."

Prophetic statement?

[lorddunlow]

So, I caught up on nearly a month of VEI books all last night. (What a great time I had - also caught up on Manhattan Projects)

This is issue was sooooo awesome. I'll save most of my thoughts about this and #23 (they really read well back to back) for the #23 thread, but I will say that reading the comments here with knowledge of #23 really makes this a fun thread to read.

FVL is so awesome. If he leaves this book for good, then he's definitely pulling a Costanza.

(I'm actually thinking he probably is leaving as a major staple of the VEI writer's club as he was not part of the writer's summit.)

[leonmallett]

So, I caught up on nearly a month of VEI books all last night. (What a great time I had - also caught up on Manhattan Projects)

This is issue was sooooo awesome. I'll save most of my thoughts about this and #23 (they really read well back to back) for the #23 thread, but I will say that reading the comments here with knowledge of #23 really makes this a fun thread to read.

FVL is so awesome. If he leaves this book for good, then he's definitely pulling a Costanza.

(I'm actually thinking he probably is leaving as a major staple of the VEI writer's club as he was not part of the writer's summit.)

It seems to point to that he is leaving, but I wish that was not the case. I would argue that Archer and Armstrong has been the most consistent of the 4 longest running VEI books.

[lorddunlow]

So, I caught up on nearly a month of VEI books all last night. (What a great time I had - also caught up on Manhattan Projects)

This is issue was sooooo awesome. I'll save most of my thoughts about this and #23 (they really read well back to back) for the #23 thread, but I will say that reading the comments here with knowledge of #23 really makes this a fun thread to read.

FVL is so awesome. If he leaves this book for good, then he's definitely pulling a Costanza.

(I'm actually thinking he probably is leaving as a major staple of the VEI writer's club as he was not part of the writer's summit.)

It seems to point to that he is leaving, but I wish that was not the case. I would argue that Archer and Armstrong has been the most consistent of the 4 longest running VEI books.

I'm hopeful after some tweet responses from Dino a couple of weeks ago, but he's definitely not being placed in an "architect of the shared universe" role for sure, which bums me out. If you had told me in the winter of 2012 that I would have X-O and A&A as my top 2 VEI books in the summer of 2014, I would have told you that you were crazy! I've become less and less interested in reading the Harbinger book (my favorite in the beginning). Bloodshot is getting better, but it sagged in the middle. (I loved the early issues the most.)