Eternal Warrior #8 discussion

[SJS4]

Just finished reading it.

Overall i really liked the story arc and, on its own, this arc ending the way it did made perfect sense. The problem i have is that the foreshadowing from the first arc didn't seem to lead to much. The other problem is, of course, that since VEI hasn't solicited any more issues of Eternal Warrior I feel "let down" instead of anxious to see where the story will go next.

I did enjoy this arc more than the first, for what that is worth. I liked Hairsine's art more, but this story arc was more interesting. Such a shame this book is now on "hiatus."

[bygranddesign]

I enjoyed it for the most part.

The action was good - EW's superior war tactics on full display and nicely demonstrated.

EW and Caroline's relationship continues to be nicely developed. Sort of reminds me of the father and son relationship of Cormac McCarthy's The Road.

The art was good overall - even though there seemed to be a few pages/panels that looked rushed.

The story was solid - but very quick. Not a lot of meat on the bone

And most disappointing - all of the nagging questions from the first arc never got answered.

And the whole premise that seemed to be the point of going to 4001 was never explored - the release of Nergal..

overall 7/10

[dornwolf]

And most disappointing - all of the nagging questions from the first arc never got answered.

And the whole premise that seemed to be the point of going to 4001 was never explored - the release of Nergal..

That's true other than the death cult which are probably Nergal worshippers a whole lotta nada on that end.

Also was Gilad imply at the end that all his descendants go nuts and try to destroy the world?

[BugsySig]

Just finished reading it.

Overall i really liked the story arc and, on its own, this arc ending the way it did made perfect sense. The problem i have is that the foreshadowing from the first arc didn't seem to lead to much. The other problem is, of course, that since VEI hasn't solicited any more issues of Eternal Warrior I feel "let down" instead of anxious to see where the story will go next.

I did enjoy this arc more than the first, for what that is worth. I liked Hairsine's art more, but this story arc was more interesting. Such a shame this book is now on "hiatus."

+1 to all this. My thoughts exactly. This was a quick read, but enjoyable. Gilad's superior knowledge and tactics made what would seem to be a tough battle a one sided affair. And e relationship with Caroline may be the best part of the arc.

The hanging plot threads from the first arc are really nagging, though. We need more, and not 6 months from now. I really just don't understand the hiatus decision on this one. With the creative changes on Shadowman, it would have made sense for that title. Here it just seems like it's killing any momentum Pak and the book had. It's clearer after this issue that he does have an over-arching story to tell linking the past and future. Now I don't know if we will ever see it come to fruition.

[String]

Just finished reading it.

Overall i really liked the story arc and, on its own, this arc ending the way it did made perfect sense. The problem i have is that the foreshadowing from the first arc didn't seem to lead to much. The other problem is, of course, that since VEI hasn't solicited any more issues of Eternal Warrior I feel "let down" instead of anxious to see where the story will go next.

I did enjoy this arc more than the first, for what that is worth. I liked Hairsine's art more, but this story arc was more interesting. Such a shame this book is now on "hiatus."

+1 to all this. My thoughts exactly. This was a quick read, but enjoyable. Gilad's superior knowledge and tactics made what would seem to be a tough battle a one sided affair. And e relationship with Caroline may be the best part of the arc.

The hanging plot threads from the first arc are really nagging, though. We need more, and not 6 months from now. I really just don't understand the hiatus decision on this one. With the creative changes on Shadowman, it would have made sense for that title. Here it just seems like it's killing any momentum Pak and the book had. It's clearer after this issue that he does have an over-arching story to tell linking the past and future. Now I don't know if we will ever see it come to fruition.

Reluctantly, I have to agree. This was a solid ending to this story arc but any ties to the previous story seemed dropped by the wayside. There was no exploration at all about this particular Cult of Nergal, who was their leader (or their Sword), no hints about Nergal himself and does this mean other Houses survived to 4001 as well? Al they seemed to be was cannon fodder.

Gilad's battle experience on display was nice to see though. Speaking of, geezus, what type of rifles were those? He was carving out the side of the mountain with one.

I'm unsure over his concerns for Caroline at the end too. I didn't get the impression that she may go mad at some point rather that her exposure to technology has piqued her interest to the point where she wants to use/see more. By doing so, she may endanger the world again and that's what Gilad's fears are about or at least my impression of them.

With what Pak has shown us so far, I hate seeing this title going on hiatus, hate it.

[bygranddesign]

Also was Gilad imply at the end that all his descendants go nuts and try to destroy the world?

I think the message is ... People, in the long run, are not content with simplicity.

They will inevitable turn to technology

And progress can be a beautiful thing ... and also a destructive force in this world. EW has probably seen this happen countless times in his long life time and I can see how he both views his daughter as embracing technology as both beautiful and tragic

[bygranddesign]

I'm unsure over his concerns for Caroline at the end too. I didn't get the impression that she may go mad at some point rather that her exposure to technology has piqued her interest to the point where she wants to use/see more. By doing so, she may endanger the world again and that's what Gilad's fears are about or at least my impression of them.

I think part of his concern is what I said in the previous post

As much as Gilad wants to destroy all the guns and all technology ... Inevitably mankind will keep progressing forward and there is nothing to stop that.

But another thought comes to mind - that her natural ability to fix machines (and her eternal warrior heritage) might make her a future Sword of the Wheel. Or just a follower of the Wheel (if the God's are really dead)

[jmatt]

I enjoyed the issue and the arc. Liked the art and the continued relationship building between Gilad and Caroline, especially the "but they're not us" exchange. I thought we were in for a sermon about guns (the theme was mildly there) but sometimes when your back is to the wall, the lives of 400 "good" people are more valuable than that of 3,000 "bad" people, which I think we can safely assume Death cultists qualify as.

Gilad's anti-technology perspective is reminiscent of some elements of VH1 Rai and Magnus. I wonder if we'll see this dynamic played out in the new Rai.

And yeah, the setup from the first arc was just totally absent. Buck ended it with "we only have 2,000 years to prepare" but it was nowhere to be found. The "End" punctuation was a little off-putting, but I guess that's their way of saying "hiatus".

But I will say that I am pleased it was less confusing than the first arc.

[chriskay99]

This title has been "meh" overall for me. This particular issue felt very thing - not a lot of dialogue and even when there it was, it felt kind of forced. Like, "oh crap, we have to have them say something in some of these panels." Lingering plot threads, lack of connection to the first arc - I'm kinda glad this book is going on hiatus. Hope it gets retooled like Shadowman, which seems to be getting better. Just keeping it 90.™

[pixierosa]

I have to agree with the overall assessment. Some nice character work and a tidy ending. Enjoyed the interaction with EW and Caroline, watching him try to educate her on the dangers of the weapons, their unnecessary devastation (quite the laser gun that can blow a crater that size), the value of life and how to determine what lives are worth saving. That's a lot for a child, and all along we are given foreshadowing of her future. Her love of overkill weaponry, natural gadget ability. Like Gilad, it made me sad because you know the path she will eventually walk, and all we can do is hope that she takes the correct fork in the road. From the artwork, it appears that Gilad and Caroline returned before winter and helped the villagers survive through to the next planting season (their crops had been destroyed by the robots). It took Caroline a while to figure out how to make her robot. When Gilad mentioned her seeing too much and thinking on it, I wrongly assumed he meant seeing the violence and death. I wasn't expecting a little robot. But that's one of the points of the arc: innocent curiosity turned into destruction. Caroline may not set out to develop weapons and killing machines, but her love of technology and a need for workers/protection plus her own fascination with power may lead to the past repeating itself. That's hard enough for someone as long-lived as Gilad to have to witness, but know it's your own family, once again, as the root of the problem? Has to be heartbreaking for him.

Still, I wanted to know more about the plot behind this arc. Like why the death cult sent thousands to guard the med station. That seemed to be done for strategic purposes, yet they seemed like an unorganized mob when it came to battle time. No tactics at all. Was this a Nergal cult? How does all of this tie in to the first arc? Like everyone else, I wanted those questions answered.

[dornwolf]

Also was Gilad imply at the end that all his descendants go nuts and try to destroy the world?

I think the message is ... People, in the long run, are not content with simplicity.

They will inevitable turn to technology

And progress can be a beautiful thing ... and also a destructive force in this world. EW has probably seen this happen countless times in his long life time and I can see how he both views his daughter as embracing technology as both beautiful and tragic

I didn't get that vibe from the story. It felt to me any way that he was "Sigh, another crazy family member to kill when she's older" For a guy whose live for thousands of years he clearly doesn't see big mistakes. Nothings wrong with Caroline playing with technology and learning about it, it'd probably benefit her in the long run, if he's worried about her shooting of the deepend he should be there to guide her along the right path.

[BugsySig]

On Tumblr, Greg Pak responded to a question about EW and said the plan was to continue with some of the plot threads from the first arc, but they decided to concentrate on the relationship with Caroline instead.

Then he added a vague/ominous comment that those threads will remain in case he, or another writer, want to investigate them in the future.

[Keith]

Overall, I'm giving the whole series a disappointed meh.

I'm sure this is not the case, but it almost feels like Pak came in with a great pitch, editorial said "run with it, we trust you" and assumed he was up on current EW continuity seen in Archer & Armstrong. He wasn't, and veered way off course with his interpretation. With no option to rewrite for some mysterious reason, they ran the stories and hoped they could fix things with the jump to 4001. For some other mysterious reason they opted not to go with the fix, rather just tell a nice tale and end things there with a segue into Rai.

I really doubt we see Pak back on the title whenever/however it resumes. No knock on him intended, this just didn't work.

[DirtbagSailor]

I enjoyed the story arc, but feel in a way that it was rushed to make way for the summer releases. This story needed 1 more issue (issue 8 should have led up to and started the battle, and issue 9 should have finished the battle and provided the epilogue with Gilad and Caroline) to be perfect.

I am happy with the story, and do not consider it a failure. I just feel as though there was more, but due to management decisions and new projects much had to be cut/shortened.

DBS

[ilzuccone]

Eternal warrior in a post apocalyptic future yes. The execution of that idea... No. Glad it's over.

[kjjohanson]

Overall, I'm giving the whole series a disappointed meh.

I'm sure this is not the case, but it almost feels like Pak came in with a great pitch, editorial said "run with it, we trust you" and assumed he was up on current EW continuity seen in Archer & Armstrong. He wasn't, and veered way off course with his interpretation. With no option to rewrite for some mysterious reason, they ran the stories and hoped they could fix things with the jump to 4001. For some other mysterious reason they opted not to go with the fix, rather just tell a nice tale and end things there with a segue into Rai.

I really doubt we see Pak back on the title whenever/however it resumes. No knock on him intended, this just didn't work.

I see reaction to this in the same way that I saw the reaction to the first Hulk movie. On it's own merits, actually a well done work of art. However, the it's not what the audience that was predisposed to purchase it in the first place was looking for, and the audience that would have enjoyed it the most didn't find it.

[kjjohanson]

I'll need to go back and re-read the arc, but I'm wondering now if all of Gilad's question to Caroline were just about gauging for himself what effect he has had on people, especially his children.

[Captain Craig]

The second arc was much stronger than the first. It was also a much quicker read.
I can only echo the sentiment that the book going on hiatus now seems to be a momentum killer.
Pak seems to have had a game plan of showing Gilad's connection to life and the Earth. The opening of the title with him burned out, the reunion with is kids and seeing their path without his guidance all leading him to once more becoming the Fist & Steel and the reveal of the Houses and Negral.

Then jump us to the far future where Gilad is content at his place with a group of people and once again particularly close to, this time a grand daughter. At minimum I think the Eternal Emperor arc needed some hint of Negral, the Houses a mention of his kids if nothing else in a lamenting way or joyous even. Thus giving at least a thin bridge to the first arc.

It's a bit unsettling, but I'm trying to be accepting of it, that the book will be back with an issue #9. Hopefully after Armor Wars and the minis for Harbinger & Bloodshot are done we'll get a solicit for EW#9 at end of summer for maybe a Oct or Nov release.

[BugsySig]

The second arc was much stronger than the first. It was also a much quicker read.
I can only echo the sentiment that the book going on hiatus now seems to be a momentum killer.
Pak seems to have had a game plan of showing Gilad's connection to life and the Earth. The opening of the title with him burned out, the reunion with is kids and seeing their path without his guidance all leading him to once more becoming the Fist & Steel and the reveal of the Houses and Negral.

Then jump us to the far future where Gilad is content at his place with a group of people and once again particularly close to, this time a grand daughter. At minimum I think the Eternal Emperor arc needed some hint of Negral, the Houses a mention of his kids if nothing else in a lamenting way or joyous even. Thus giving at least a thin bridge to the first arc.

It's a bit unsettling, but I'm trying to be accepting of it, that the book will be back with an issue #9. Hopefully after Armor Wars and the minis for Harbinger & Bloodshot are done we'll get a solicit for EW#9 at end of summer for maybe a Oct or Nov release.

You make some good points, Cap. In retrospect, I think the set-up of the first arc tied in fine to this arc, though maybe a little less so than we might have predicted (ie the cliff-hanger with Gilad's son). All I really NEED to see at this point is something filling in the gap between the first arc and A&A #5.

[Heath]

The hiatus is a shame. This book went from my least anticipated and close to being dropped, to the one I really looked forward to the most. I feel like there was another arc planned after this one that would deliver the payoff for the first arc. I wish we could have gotten that arc.

[kjjohanson]

The hiatus is a shame. This book went from my least anticipated and close to being dropped, to the one I really looked forward to the most. I feel like there was another arc planned after this one that would deliver the payoff for the first arc. I wish we could have gotten that arc.

Maybe the first Rai arc has something to add that we need to see before whatever the next steps for EW are. Or, maybe the direction for Rai was going to conflict with the direction for 4001 EW, and the powers that be felt that sticking to the Rai storyline was the stronger option, requiring them to retool EW.

[jmatt]

Maybe the first Rai arc has something to add that we need to see before whatever the next steps for EW are. Or, maybe the direction for Rai was going to conflict with the direction for 4001 EW, and the powers that be felt that sticking to the Rai storyline was the stronger option, requiring them to retool EW.

This kinda gets back to my point that the universe doesn't really seem to have a grand map; that nothing is really plotted out more than whatever the next upcoming arc requires. And in the case of EW, not even that far, it would seem.

[kjjohanson]

Maybe the first Rai arc has something to add that we need to see before whatever the next steps for EW are. Or, maybe the direction for Rai was going to conflict with the direction for 4001 EW, and the powers that be felt that sticking to the Rai storyline was the stronger option, requiring them to retool EW.

This kinda gets back to my point that the universe doesn't really seem to have a grand map; that nothing is really plotted out more than whatever the next upcoming arc requires. And in the case of EW, not even that far, it would seem.

That depends. Speculation here, but they may have a couple routes mapped out and be trying to see what direction is going to stick with fans. I think that with Rai and then Armor Hunters, they're going to get a bump in numbers this summer. It might settle down a bit after that, but hopefully will settle at a higher level. If that happens, then they might be good for that next wave of expansion.

[jmatt]

That depends. Speculation here, but they may have a couple routes mapped out and be trying to see what direction is going to stick with fans. I think that with Rai and then Armor Hunters, they're going to get a bump in numbers this summer. It might settle down a bit after that, but hopefully will settle at a higher level. If that happens, then they might be good for that next wave of expansion.

I'm not even sure my observation is all that different from what publishers do most of the time. Perhaps none of them plot beyond the next arc.

But it just seems to me that with the Valiant legacy of impeccable continuity (Shooters date stamps) and the fact that they are trying to give readers a cohesive universe, that the road map would be more well defined. EW has been a mess, in this regard.

Back when I was running crews building subway stations in NY, we would have to follow a Critical Path Method; a master plan of dates, manpower, materials and substantial completion points that would have to be met so the next phase would kick off on schedule. It was literally a huge project map hanging on the wall to remind us every day that a clock was ticking and everything had to be where and when it was supposed to be to ensure success.

I can see where something like this concerning dates, issues, characters and plot points would be useful to people planning a comic book universe. I'm sure they have something like this but perhaps it needs to be more formalized.

Or maybe since its just comics, and they don't really know what the "endpoint" will look like, something like this isn't feasible. Sorry for rambling.

[Phoenix8008]

That depends. Speculation here, but they may have a couple routes mapped out and be trying to see what direction is going to stick with fans. I think that with Rai and then Armor Hunters, they're going to get a bump in numbers this summer. It might settle down a bit after that, but hopefully will settle at a higher level. If that happens, then they might be good for that next wave of expansion.

I'm not even sure my observation is all that different from what publishers do most of the time. Perhaps none of them plot beyond the next arc.

But it just seems to me that with the Valiant legacy of impeccable continuity (Shooters date stamps) and the fact that they are trying to give readers a cohesive universe, that the road map would be more well defined. EW has been a mess, in this regard.

Back when I was running crews building subway stations in NY, we would have to follow a Critical Path Method; a master plan of dates, manpower, materials and substantial completion points that would have to be met so the next phase would kick off on schedule. It was literally a huge project map hanging on the wall to remind us every day that a clock was ticking and everything had to be where and when it was supposed to be to ensure success.

I can see where something like this concerning dates, issues, characters and plot points would be useful to people planning a comic book universe. I'm sure they have something like this but perhaps it needs to be more formalized.

Or maybe since its just comics, and they don't really know what the "endpoint" will look like, something like this isn't feasible. Sorry for rambling.

I hope/wish that their process is something near this ideal. I know they have their yearly (I think it's yearly?) writers retreat. I would guess that they try to put some kind of overall plan for the next year together at that. But then real life can happen in between. It may seem like they're only planning one arc ahead because if they make changes based on reader feedback that's what it would look like. By the time the first arc of EW was finishing up, many of us here were complaining about how confusing it was for the continuity and how it didn't fit well with either the A&A story of Gilad or what he was doing in Unity. At that time, they were pretty much locked into doing the second arc because at least the first couple issues of it would have been solicited for the coming months. So maybe they changed course because of our feedback and decided that putting the title on hiatus after that to make sure they can fix what needs fixing got done. And the need for more shelf space with all the Valiant First stuff was a convenient excuse to have it go on hiatus without admitting it was for creative or editorial double checking like they did with Shadowman.

Now of course, all this positive feedback for this second arc will be reaching them when it's too late to restart the series again before August. I haven't read this latest issue yet (expecting my shipment today), but I look forward to it after what others have said here. Hopefully EW will come back before long and continue to improve.