Harbinger #17 Discussion

[Keith]

Getting the party started!

I'll be honest... when the solicits first started coming out about the Perfect Day storyline, I had my doubts. Coming off an event like Harbinger Wars, I was worried that we'd be losing momentum on a story that previously had been very exciting

Boy, was I wrong. After reading issue #17, I dare say this might be my most favorite arc of Harbinger so far!

With the "pealing back the onion" revelations from previous issues of what is happening to the Renegades, Dysart does an amazing job in this issue of tieing it all back to the Harbinger War and imbuing that same energy felt during the event. The Bleeding Monk wasn't kidding when he said "... no war truly ends." The battle may have ended in Las Vegas, but round two looks to be starting in El Segundo.

I really appreciated the look at just how potentially vulnerable Harada really is. For those of us complaining that he is too involved in everything, this issue seeming says "yes, he is, and that is potentially bad bad bad." This leads to fascinating revelations about the man, as well as seeing an unexpected side to him.

Coming up... Peter's Perfect Day!

[pixierosa]

Well put, Keith. This story arc is well-thought out and my favorite arc thus far, too. Everything ties together and it feels like the story has come full circle. It touched on all of the major plot points and gives us some interesting Harada insider tidbits. Having Ingrid be the narrative voice served the story well.

The next issue is going to be amazing.

[BugsySig]

Well put, Keith. This story arc is well-thought out and my favorite arc thus far, too. Everything ties together and it feels like the story has come full circle. It touched on all of the major plot points and gives us some interesting Harada insider tidbits. Having Ingrid be the narrative voice served the story well.

The next issue is going to be amazing.

Agreed on all points. I also enjoyed the look into Animalia's perfect day and the dialogue of the roadrunner was hilarious. I did not expect her constructs to appear in the "real" world, but what an awesome scene.

One question...Kris flatlined, likely during her "drowning", which led to her realization of the false reality. What caused this? Was it Pete? With the revelation that Monica Jim could use her powers subconsciously outside the construct, it would make sense that Pete could do so as well. Especially given Harada's weakened/more vulnerable state.

[pixierosa]

One question...Kris flatlined, likely during her "drowning", which led to her realization of the false reality. What caused this? Was it Pete? With the revelation that Monica Jim could use her powers subconsciously outside the construct, it would make sense that Pete could do so as well. Especially given Harada's weakened/more vulnerable state.

I can't wait to find this out. I've been anxious to discover who was behind the awakening ever since Kris bludgeoned Torque. I've suspected it was Pete, and it does seem more likely now that we have the backstory. It makes sense that Kris would be the psyche that he sought out even while unconscious.

[grendeljd]

Wow. Fantastic issue... definitely my favourite of all the books this month, once again. And a real treat visually with Clayton Henry's art.

The revelations & ties back to the end of Harbinger Wars are flawless, and it was nice to see it was essentially what I anticipated - the Renegades never even got out of Vegas! The insight into Harada's abilities & the fact that the story addresses the issue of him being over-extended were great to read. It is so cool to know that the creative teams are very aware of what they are doing with Harada right now [particularly Dysart], and he isn't just being over-used mindlessly as the 'Big Bad' of the Valiant U. There is a master plan, and there will be consequences to all this. Mind Squall, anyone?

As usual, Josh's gift of building up great characters with little effort and in the most efficient use of storytelling is most impressive. I think Monica Jim is just an incredible character, with a brilliant concept for her psiot ability - I would really love to see Animalia get out of this situation & stay with the Renegades. What a cool expansion of her powers, to project a group of characters from her deepest subconscious coping-mechanism roots even while she is currently UNconscious. Samurai Sue, Humble Bee, Boran & Skeleton pelican - I look forward to seeing more of them on into future story arcs.

One question...Kris flatlined, likely during her "drowning", which led to her realization of the false reality. What caused this? Was it Pete? With the revelation that Monica Jim could use her powers subconsciously outside the construct, it would make sense that Pete could do so as well. Especially given Harada's weakened/more vulnerable state.

I can't wait to find this out. I've been anxious to discover who was behind the awakening ever since Kris bludgeoned Torque. I've suspected it was Pete, and it does seem more likely now that we have the backstory. It makes sense that Kris would be the psyche that he sought out even while unconscious.

Good idea, lady & gent - if Harada is as deeply exhausted as Ingrid believes him to be, his control over Pete could be slipping. But I'm kinda thinking it's gotta be the Bleeding Monk messing with Toyo's plans again... he has yet to make an appearance in the story but we know he has to be aware of the situation, and I still don't entirely trust that he is completely in Harada's corner. I recall reading in one of Josh's interviews that the next arc will be looking at BM's long game a little...

I'm also thinking it could even have been one of the Kalfus Brothers... those guys are hooked up & involved in maintaining the psychic construct full time, thats gotta be tough - I'll bet one of them wants a bathroom break!

Did anyone else think it odd [in the 'it may mean something significant' kind of way] that the triplets were essentially imitating Harada's look? No Harbinger Foundation outfits, but suits just like Toyo... I wonder if that is a projection... or if they are clones of Toyo...

[pixierosa]

It very well could be Bleeding Monk. We know he has an end game because he sees so far into the future. He works with Harada but I think that may be because it suits his purposes for now. When Harada deviates from his counsel, he has no problem with pointing out what he view as Harada's character flaws. Perhaps he takes matters into his own hands.

Makes me wonder why he would start with Kris. If Torque was the easiest to kill/break, you'd think he would have started with the weakest link.

The mind squall sounds intriguing. As does Pete's "perfect day". Looks like #19 will be the major battle/breakout.

The Kalfus bros are odd, and they do emulate Harada by wearing suits instead of the uniform. Doubt they are clones or even his offspring. But could you imagine being Harada's child? You just know that relationship would end in rebellion. Speaking of clones, I'm not sure that the powers would be cloned, although cells would be the essentially the same so perhaps powers could be activated.

Also, I wonder if Darpan will be making an appearance, and am curious how Traveller and Hive are doing. I believe they truly escaped, but who knows?

That psychic prison concept is evil. I'm left wondering why bother, though. If they are too dangerous or unpredictable to be "awake", are they only keeping them alive in hopes of eventually brainwashing them to the Foundation's cause or in case they need to use their abilities somehow?

[nonplayer]

O M GAWD! Amazing issue. I hoe bloodshot comes in next month and assists. Love the girl and sooo hooe.she joins the renegades

[swtor1091]

loved the issue... amazing as always but here is my thing... I don't think Anamilia will join the renegades but will instead be a central foe and team up with AX in the next arc on onward perhaps. From what I have heard here AX was a villain in VH1 but since he wont have his powers in order to face off against not just the renegades but the Eggbreakers as well he would need back up

[BugsySig]

loved the issue... amazing as always but here is my thing... I don't think Anamilia will join the renegades but will instead be a central foe and team up with AX in the next arc on onward perhaps. From what I have heard here AX was a villain in VH1 but since he wont have his powers in order to face off against not just the renegades but the Eggbreakers as well he would need back up

VH1 Ax was never much good in a fight, even with his powers. So he had a team of humans with cybernetic implants helping him, and at other times a group of rogue Harbingers.

I can see Animalia releasing the Gen Zero prisoners from Harada's possession, though she'll probably help the Renegades escape first seeing as they were on the same team in Vegas.

[blujay]

I'm glad they addressed how over extended Harada is and even touched on his sleep schedule. It seems to be part of the narrative, however I could see the whole "he only needs to sleep for 1 day" thing being used as an excuse to put him in every book. I hope that isn't the case though.

This issue was a great way to tie up a lot of the loose ends of harbinger wars, I'm still anticipating the return of Gen Zero

Solid issue

[somewhatlazy]

This issue: ∞/10

[BugsySig]

I'm glad they addressed how over extended Harada is and even touched on his sleep schedule. It seems to be part of the narrative, however I could see the whole "he only needs to sleep for 1 day" thing being used as an excuse to put him in every book. I hope that isn't the case though.

This issue was a great way to tie up a lot of the loose ends of harbinger wars, I'm still anticipating the return of Gen Zero

Solid issue

If you think about it, though, how often does any comic address its character's sleep habits? Other than the occasional scene where someone is woken up by an emergency, a convenient dream sequence, or post-coital spooning, I can't think of any. Wolverine obviously hasn't slept in years.

[jmatt]

∞/10

Stack Overflow. Please notify your system administrator.

Great issue! Henry's art is as fabulous as ever and Dysart's writing matches. I liked the rewind where we get to see how things truly unfolded in the denouement of the Battle for Las Vegas.

It's nice that we've seen the Harada aging issue addressed and we've finally found his weakness.

And we still have the mystery of exactly who contacted Kris and helped her break the shared dreamspace, which Torque seems to be in control of now.

[Baramos]

I'm glad they addressed how over extended Harada is and even touched on his sleep schedule. It seems to be part of the narrative, however I could see the whole "he only needs to sleep for 1 day" thing being used as an excuse to put him in every book. I hope that isn't the case though.

This issue was a great way to tie up a lot of the loose ends of harbinger wars, I'm still anticipating the return of Gen Zero

Solid issue

If you think about it, though, how often does any comic address its character's sleep habits? Other than the occasional scene where someone is woken up by an emergency, a convenient dream sequence, or post-coital spooning, I can't think of any. Wolverine obviously hasn't slept in years.

The "he's in every book" thing is a bit exaggerated, anyway. Every appearance from him has seemed borne out of a logical narrative need, and we can maybe assume a bit of a timeline differential, anyway, kind of like how the current arc in Eternal Warrior is taking place prior to the "present". Unity #1/the current X-O Manowar arc might be taking place after Perfect Day is all wrapped up as far as a timeline goes.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

That is CLAYTON *SQUEE* HENRY EVERYBODY!
Seriously, this creative team needs to be nominated for an Eisner. Two of the best at what they do! This is the dream team! on the dream title!
Valiant, you wasscuwwy wabbit!

[apainter]

The Kalfus triplets were the ones who busted up the Syria/Russia deal in Harbinger 0, weren't they? I thought they were Indian (they said they represented an Indian subsidiary of HGC), but now I'm not sure. Maybe there are more than one set of triplets? I thought one of the brothers was beheaded in this issue. It took a second look for me to realize that was a tech, not a Kalfus.

Psiot abilities all seem to be mental. We don't see any purely physical powers, (heightened strength, invulnerability, and such) they all have a mental/energy manipulation basis. Torque's abilities mimic physical powers, but it's just a mental projection. I wonder if Torque's power is locked in to his "redneck Luke Cage" form, or if he can assume other forms like Monica.

Art

[BugsySig]

The Kalfus triplets were the ones who busted up the Syria/Russia deal in Harbinger 0, weren't they? I thought they were Indian (they said they represented an Indian subsidiary of HGC), but now I'm not sure. Maybe there are more than one set of triplets? I thought one of the brothers was beheaded in this issue. It took a second look for me to realize that was a tech, not a Kalfus.

Psiot abilities all seem to be mental. We don't see any purely physical powers, (heightened strength, invulnerability, and such) they all have a mental/energy manipulation basis. Torque's abilities mimic physical powers, but it's just a mental projection. I wonder if Torque's power is locked in to his "redneck Luke Cage" form, or if he can assume other forms like Monica.

Art

I believe over in bloodshot and hard corps they called it "hard shell projection." I believe Monica and torque have the same ability but it manifests differently.

[grendeljd]

The Kalfus triplets were the ones who busted up the Syria/Russia deal in Harbinger 0, weren't they? I thought they were Indian (they said they represented an Indian subsidiary of HGC), but now I'm not sure. Maybe there are more than one set of triplets? I thought one of the brothers was beheaded in this issue. It took a second look for me to realize that was a tech, not a Kalfus.

Psiot abilities all seem to be mental. We don't see any purely physical powers, (heightened strength, invulnerability, and such) they all have a mental/energy manipulation basis. Torque's abilities mimic physical powers, but it's just a mental projection. I wonder if Torque's power is locked in to his "redneck Luke Cage" form, or if he can assume other forms like Monica.

Art

I believe over in bloodshot and hard corps they called it "hard shell projection." I believe Monica and torque have the same ability but it manifests differently.

I really like that all the 'powers' in the Valiant U are based in psionics, and that there are many degrees of skill in each of the various psionic abilities. I wonder if it is a genetic difference that allows one psiot to do more than another with a given power. Monica Jim can now project actual separate functioning entities [one could argue her subconscious is controlling them], whereas Torque can only project a shell around himself. They both already are capable of maintaining the projections while unconscious, just in different manners. Could Torque learn to do what Monica Jim has learned [or been stressed into learning] to do if he sees her do it?

Or with Faith, she has now learned that she can control gravity beyond just herself after seeing the PRS kid 'tow' another person. Could she always do that [ie genetically be capable of more than she is aware of initially] or could any psiot who can manipulate gravity be capable of all the same variations on the theme?

[grendeljd]

DId anyone else pick up all the variant covers of this issue? I love the 8 bit Harbinger Kart, and the Sean Chen signature series cover is such an excellent, tight drawing too... I think he would be another great classic Valiant artist that should be getting some more work with VEI.

[blujay]

DId anyone else pick up all the variant covers of this issue? I love the 8 bit Harbinger Kart, and the Sean Chen signature series cover is such an excellent, tight drawing too... I think he would be another great classic Valiant artist that should be getting some more work with VEI.

ditto

There's so many great VH1 talents out there just waiting to return to the medium. It would be a big mistake not get guys like Sean Chen, BWS and Bob Hall back in the mix

[jmatt]

I believe over in bloodshot and hard corps they called it "hard shell projection." I believe Monica and torque have the same ability but it manifests differently.

I guess that's the same as we saw Hunter do in the Harada '69 sequences when he confronted Carter. We saw him project multiple instances of himself, right?

[BugsySig]

I believe over in bloodshot and hard corps they called it "hard shell projection." I believe Monica and torque have the same ability but it manifests differently.

I guess that's the same as we saw Hunter do in the Harada '69 sequences when he confronted Carter. We saw him project multiple instances of himself, right?

That would make sense.

[hawkeyeps]

I believe over in bloodshot and hard corps they called it "hard shell projection." I believe Monica and torque have the same ability but it manifests differently.

I guess that's the same as we saw Hunter do in the Harada '69 sequences when he confronted Carter. We saw him project multiple instances of himself, right?

That would make sense.

Good observation, nice insight.

[String]

Is it too early to ask for plush dolls of Samurai Sue and Skeleton Pelican?

Wonderful issue all around, showing the flashbacks of what actually happened at the end of HW, Dysart subverts our expectations yet again. Great writing, terrific art.

Also, great to see the chinks in Harada's armor.

[AnthonyF]

That is CLAYTON *SQUEE* HENRY EVERYBODY!
Seriously, this creative team needs to be nominated for an Eisner. Two of the best at what they do! This is the dream team! on the dream title!

DITTO!!
So glad to have Clayton join the book!