Of all Shooter titles of 3 companies, what 10 would you do?

bamaphilosopher · Post by **bamaphilosopher** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:09 pm

I thought the three issues of Knights on Broadway were some of the best work of any of the Shooter titles. Granted, it was written by Joe James, I think his name was, but I'm sure Shooter helped plan the series.

Since Golden Books owns both the Defiant and Broadway properties, I SURE wish they'd get the Valiant ones, too.

I'd love to see Shooter start again (I know, I know, not going to happen, but a guy can dream, right?), with the following titles:

1) Knights on Broadway (Broadway comics)
2) Star Seed (Broadway)
3) Warriors of Plasm (Defiant)
4) Harbinger (Valiant)
5) XO Manowar (Valiant)
6) Magnus (I'm assuming these next three are owned by the same Golden Books that owns the Gold Key properties)
7) Solar
8) Turok
9) Eternal Warrior (Valiant)
10) Either Bloodshot, Shadowman, or Geomancer (Geoff) (Valiant) or Fatale (Broadway)

And I'd stay with just 10 titles and weave in tight continuity like the early, pre-Unity Shooter Valiants. If one of them didn't sell, you could replace it with another property that did. You could always bring in other properties to appear in these titles--you'd have a wealth of them, from HARD Corps to Dark Dominion, etc.

To me, this would preserve the best of what Shooter offered.

If you had just ten titles to pick, from Valiant, Broadway, and Defiant, to offer Shooter again for him to write again, what ten would you choose? Any other fans of Knights on Broadway out there? That's my favorite. What's yours?

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:39 pm

Starseed, Dark Dominion, and Solar.

bamaphilosopher · Post by **bamaphilosopher** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:36 pm

That's all, Andrew? You have seven other choices.

justin · Post by **justin** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:40 pm

The only way I would like to see shooter do geomancer is if every issue was about a different geomancer! The only way I would want geomancer revived!

-A

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:05 am

1. Magnus
2. Star Seed
3. StarBrand (can't forget this New Universe gem, issues 1-7 are up there with Jim's best work)
4. Harbinger
5. Plasm
6. X-O
7. Solar
8. Eternal Warrior/Geomancer/A & A/Timewalker (this would be cool as one book)
9. Charlemagne
10. Shadowman

bamaphilosopher · Post by **bamaphilosopher** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:08 am

architect, I liked Geoff McHenry...didn't like the new Geomancer, though.

Hey Ryan, I like your idea about combining Eternal Warrior with A&A, Timewalker, and Geomancer. That would work pretty well, I think. Or at least have the others guest star if you chose just one.

StarBrand, huh? Never heard of that one. I'll try to pick it up somewhere. What's it about? Is it hard to get the issues?

oldjello · Post by **oldjello** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:31 am

I started to collect Defiant for a bit. Then I went to college, and went broke. What happened to that company? I owned Dark Dominion, a couple of Plasms, and Collected the Plasm #0 card book that I never completed.

Damn education.

Sorry for creating yet another tangent.

comicguy · Post by **comicguy** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:56 am

My shooter top 10 in no paticular order:

1 Fatale
2 Solar
3 Magnus
4 Turok
5 Eternal Warrior
6 Plasm
7 Knights on Broadway
8 Harbinger
9 Plasm
10 Shadowman
11 X-O Man o War

I had to go with 11 because I could not decide which 1 to leave off

RyanMcLelland · Post by **RyanMcLelland** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:45 am

Hands down without a doubt Star Seed easily holds the #1 spot on my list. If you haven't read the book, go out and find them all. If you have them, go read them again. These books aged VERY well and have gotten even better over time.

(2) Harbinger
(3) Warriors of Plasm
(4) Star Brand
(5) The Good Guys (don't laugh...I just like the idea of kids with superpowers...it is a concept rarely done right but it was done decently in this series and could be done better)
(6) DP7
(7) Fatale
(8) Archer and Armstrong
(9) Shadow State
(10) Lastly...Spitfire and the X-O. Think about it. Pre-Pitt Spitfire is a hot redhead in a red robot suit. He's a barbarian in a powerful suit of armor. Both have nowhere to live and become roommates. Evil comes and both jump into their iron suits to fight evil! The book could write itself.

bamaphilosopher · Post by **bamaphilosopher** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:59 pm

Hey, Ryan, what's DP7? I'm not as familiar with Shooter's work outside Valiant, Defiant, and Broadway.

RyanMcLelland · Post by **RyanMcLelland** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:16 pm

DP7 is another New Universe book, the Marvel Shooter Universe before Valiant. Mark Grunewald actually wrote the series for what I believe was all 32 issues and you can sort of think of it as a Harbinger that was actually executed a bit better. The title changed (as all the titles did) after 'The Pitt', but it was still pretty solid storytelling.

And yeah...it was fun too.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:01 pm

Besides the usual Valiant stuff,(I basically like all of the stuff Jim helped to create with them) I thought Dark Dominion, Plasm, Charlemagne and War Dancer were pretty good books.

RyanMcLelland · Post by **RyanMcLelland** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:30 pm

You forced me to do it Daniel...

I dug out Dark Dominion, Charlemagne, and War Dancer to reread over the weekend...

So don't all of you be surprised if one of them is one of my 'Quarter Bin' articles in a couple weeks...

There also may be a Ninjak Quarter Bin in the weeks to come...such a fun name to say. Ninjak. Hee hee....

bamaphilosopher · Post by **bamaphilosopher** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:48 pm

Now, knight, I would make fun of your sentiments except...well, I share them.

Fatale was a looker, indeed! AND with Shooter's writing, too! I also thought Sueraceen or whatever her name was from Warriors of Plasm was pretty sexy, too. That scene where she seduced the "Shooter" character, I think it was issue 3, was VERY sexually charged and well-written, and Lapham's art was smoking...I love that scene! When you have quality storytelling by Shooter, I don't mind a little sex appeal thrown in, too.

Too bad he didn't do more of that with Valiant. Although he did a little sexual tension in Harbinger, with Kris and Flamingo with Sting. Of course, he intended for Sting to be gay, so that would have REALLY gotten interesting.

bamaphilosopher · Post by **bamaphilosopher** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:52 pm

Oh, I forgot to add: the only problem about Fatale is I can't get them at my local comic shop, because, according to the owner, there are guys who go through the bins and pull out all the "babe" books. Ha ha! I should have figured. I guess I'll have to complete my collection of those through ebay or Mile High.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:35 am

bamaphilosopher wrote: StarBrand, huh? Never heard of that one. I'll try to pick it up somewhere. What's it about? Is it hard to get the issues?

It should be pretty easy to get on ebay. Here's a little New Universe primer I found:

The New Universe, launched in 1986 with eight titles-- Starbrand, Spitfire and the Troubleshooters, Nightmask, Justice, Psi Force, DP7, Mark Hazzard: Merc and Kickers Inc. -- was the brainchild of then-Editor-in-Chief Jim Shooter, and was conceived of as the ultimate project to celebrate Marvel's 25th anniversary-- by creating a "new universe" where there would be a greater emphasis on reality than even the Marvel Universe had seen before. No aliens, no undersea civilizations, no other dimensions-- the New Universe was, "the world outside your window", until "the White Event". After the White Event, "paranormals" began to manifest powers. It was to be stressed that these were ordinary people with extraordinary powers, reacting to a world not unlike our own.

The problem was, not all of the New Universe writers were made to understood this facet of the universe they were writing in, so greater-than-20th century-level technology appeared in Spitfire, other dimensions appeared in Justice, and football players played super-heroes in Kickers Inc. At the end of the New Universe's first year, Jim Shooter was gone, and so were Nightmask, Spitfire, Mark Hazzard, and Kickers Inc. It was time for a change.

In the second year of publication, only DP7 creators Mark Gruenwald and Paul Ryan were retained, while John Byrne, Fabian Nicieza, and Peter David took control over the remaining titles. All four writers felt that it was time for the New Universe to live up to its potential, and mid-way through year 2, the graphic novel The PITT was released, in which Ken Connell destroyed Pittsburgh, plunging the earth (and the stars of the four titles) into chaos. This in turn led to The Draft graphic novel, in which a paranormal platoon was prepared for World War 3.

Unfortunately, by then, New Universe readership had already been conditioned against these drastic changes. Readers had been mistakenly led to believe that "the world outside your window" meant that the New Universe had to always remain the world outside their window, and felt that the creative teams had betrayed Shooter's vision, which was not the case. After 33 months of publication, the New Universe came to a halt in 1989. The four-issue limited series The War tied up the World War 3 threads, and the New Universe drifted out of the memories of general readers.

But Gruenwald, Nicieza, and David refused to forget what they had produced. David brought Justice into the 2099 universe as "Net Prophet"; Nicieza gave the Starbrand a cameo in Gambit, and was connected to a potential New Universe revival only 3 years ago; Gruenwald never stopped utilizing the New Universe, and brought its cast into the Marvel Universe via Quasar#31, which later led to the Starblast crossover.

The New Universe is not gone. For now, it's simply resting. -Prime Eternal

avenger999 · Post by **avenger999** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:54 pm

WORRIORS OF PLASM!!!!

I love that comic didnt even know about it till defiant was long gone but i managed to get every issue up to #11 and i think it only went to 12

dave · Post by **dave** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:42 pm

i'm glad someone else is talking about dp7 a bit on here-i keep recommending it to any and all who will listen. it was pre-valiant harbinger that's gotta be even hotter than pre-unity! funny how the whole-they betrayed shooter's dream thing happened then too.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:33 pm

My list...

1. Plasm
2. Dark Dominion
3. Good Guys
4. Star Seed
5. Knights on Broadway
6. Til Death Do Us Part
7. Shadowman
8. Harbinger
9. Solar
10. Magnus

Okay, well that wasn't as a painful as I thought it would be, considering all the properties are so damn good. These are the ones that shined out to me for their originality, the vastness of their concepts, and just plain quality. If the list was longer Eternal Warrior would be on there (your truely iconic immortal crusader), Turok (dinosaur hunting is still the coolest occupation ever), and some of my favorite concepts we never really go to see much of under Shooter (like Bloodshot and Technomancers). I really could see all these books in one universe together based on quantum mechanics in "the world outside your window".

SolarFan777 · Post by **SolarFan777** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:16 pm

Star Seed? Never heard of that title. I've been out of comics since '95 though. What company produced it and how long was the run?

SolarFan777 · Post by **SolarFan777** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:17 pm

Knightt_333 wrote:1. Fatale
2. Fatale
3. Fatale
4. Fatale
5. Fatale
6. Fatale
7. Fatale
8. Fatale
9. Fatale
10. Fatale

Why ? I will give you TWO reasons... and they were BOTH mounted to her chest.

Hey Knight here's an auction right up your alley...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:06 am

SolarFan777 wrote:Star Seed? Never heard of that title. I've been out of comics since '95 though. What company produced it and how long was the run?

It was published by Broadway Comics which was Jim Shooter's last line of published comics. It was a very different take on super powered aliens visiting Earth. Originally it was titled "Powers That Be" but the title was changed to changed to Star Seed at the end. It ran for 9 issues (it began publishing after the industry had suffered the big 90's crash so the market was next to impossible for Indi comics).

They also produced Fatale, Knights on Broadway, and Til Death Do Us Part (also called Shadow State) all of which I highly recommend. For more information on Broadway Comics (including a complete check list) try this forum:

http://defiant1.proboards27.com/

SolarFan777 · Post by **SolarFan777** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:42 pm

Hey I was at my local comic store and found some back issues of "Powers that be". I heard it was a good read so I got issue #1. I also saw issue #1, 2, 3 B&W preview there. All the books were cover price $2.75, but I thought I'd try it on your recommendation.

Is anyone REALLY interested in the B&W previews If so I can get them for you.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:49 am

SolarFan777 wrote:Hey I was at my local comic store and found some back issues of "Powers that be". I heard it was a good read so I got issue #1. I also saw issue #1, 2, 3 B&W preview there. All the books were cover price $2.75, but I thought I'd try it on your recommendation.

Is anyone REALLY interested in the B&W previews If so I can get them for you.

B & W previews. Wow

Not interested in them myself but from what I understand they're pretty rare. They were sent to retailers so they could preview the quality of the comics (they should be the exact samething as the "real" comic but in B & W if what I've heard is correct).

You might want to post it on the Broadway comics board I posted the link to a couple posts up. Their's probably some takers there.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:59 am

I always thought of Harbinger as a combination of PSIForce and DP7. It had elements of both books.

And I read some of the New Universe books (DP7, Starbrand, PSiForce mostly). If I had known that it was Jim Shooter, and that he was doing Valiant, I probably would have looked sooner at Valiant. But I was a little fanboy then, so I wasn't too aware of the goings on behind comics.

Starbrand = Solar
PSiForce/DP7 = Harbinger
MERC/Justice = Eternal Warrior

Nightmask = Shadowman
Spitfire = XO Manowar
Kickers Inc = ????

Chris