JIM SHOOTER IS AN IDIOT!!(or just made poor choices)

[valiantdude]

ive been out of the loop for awhile.. but i just was bored an decided to see how jims titles at DH were doing, only to find..
THEY WERE CANCELED!!
big surprise there, if you actually read them they kinda seemed rushed and lame..

But i just cant believe how lame the whole thing was..because
he ripped off dino and decided to jump ship for Dark Horse, who now have canceled the comics and will probably give up their license of the characters.
which means...
if he wouldve just stayed with Dino, they couldve aquired the rights to the gold key characters,
relaunched the valiant universe the way it shouldve been relaunched, and he would most likely still have a job..
and we the og fans wouldve got exactly what we wanted...
but instead he burned bridges with dino and VEI, put out crappy remakes, and is now without a job..
ITS SO LAME!!
i dont really know what the final motivation was for going with dark horse, maybe he didnt want to work on things created after his departure from VH1, but still.
It wouldve been way cooler to rethread the orig valiant universe which so many people around the world were waiting for..
ive been watching these developments for over 10 years..and this is how it turned out...
wow..

that being said

what are the chances of VEI getting the rights to the gold key characters now?

[betterthanezra]

I don't agree with the decisions Jim has made during this whole thing.

Why do you say it's been canceled? Sure the printing schedule is a joke. But canceled?

Are you for real? Jim Shooter is LAME???? seriously????

Jim screwed VEI and went to DH that's not new news and now looking back at it sure it was not the best choice

I expect this topic to be in oblivion very soon.

-Brian

[greg]

That's quite a sensationalist headline you've chosen there.

I'm sure there are dozens of ways to see the events and probably none of them are completely right.

If you're VEI and you need to choose a person to help you bring back the Valiant universe, you might choose Jim Shooter.
Who could blame you?

If you're Jim Shooter and you need to choose between working for a couple of guys who are new to the industry or a guy who's been around a long time and established his company... you might pick the established guy.
Who could blame you?

If you're Dark Horse and you've gotten the rights to Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok, and you've convinced Jim Shooter to work for you, but the books aren't making any money... you might start thinking about cutting your losses.
Who could blame you?

If you're Dark Horse and you've decided to stop publishing Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok, but you know that a competitor is interested in those properties, you might just sit on them and do nothing at all.
Who could blame you?

If you're VEI and you've tried to work with Jim Shooter and you've tried to get the rights to Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok, but you know that neither of those things worked out, you need to choose other people to work with and you need to build a universe with characters where you have complete control.
Who could blame you?

If you're a fan of Valiant and Jim Shooter, you would like to see both of them back together, and you would like things to be as perfect as possible. You might be disappointed when things don't work out, and you might have a negative view of some of the people involved.
Who could blame you?

Blame is cheap and easy to throw around. It's unlikely that any of us are qualified to throw it in the right direction every time, though.

[400yrs]

Whoa!

Jim Shooter's actions could turn out to be the best thing that ever happened to VEI. Shooter thinks 60s comics work today. They don't as was obvious from the DK line. If VEI put out stuff similar to the DK stuff, I would quit buying that crap too even if the Gold Key 3 were involved.

Is it likely that the Gold Key 3 are involved? No. I'd guess that VEI wanting those characters is on the back burner as there is yet another bad taste in consumers palettes for the GK 3 after the recent failure.

VEI may end up being stronger if their books reflect what consumers are likely to enjoy (unlike Shooter's DK).

[etos45]

I have to agree with Greg's post... lots of blame to go around.

I think it's a little funny that this post showed up today, because just yesterday I was talking to my wife about how Jim Shooter just has no luck when it comes to comic book universes. I'm not 100% sure of the score, but he was screwed out of Valiant, Defiant didn't make it long, I didn't even hear about Broadway until I came on this site (and that went bust), Unity 2000 was cancelled in the middle of the miniseries, bad mojo with the VEI people, and now the Dark Horse stuff.

I will agree that the Dark Horse stuff wasn't reading as well as I hoped, but I always had hope that it was tying into something. Looks like we'll never know now.

I'm actually kind of glad that VEI is launching without the Gold Key 3 because now they own all of the rights and there is never a concern about losing those rights in the future. They'll be missed, for sure, but there is still a lot of good there.

Anyways, Shooter seems to be a good guy (definitely not an idiot), but there have been some unfortunate things happen and this last one was of his own doing. Though, I don't blame him for going to DH because you would have thought that would have been the more-likely success. Looks like that was wrong, though... only time will tell.

[valiantdude]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/05/07/ ... cancelled/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

heres the info about the cancelation

i agree with greg on all points... that doesnt mean its not lame..

but..looking back at the legal stuff and how things have now turned out..

its pretty lame

he shouldve trusted the fact that a relaunch of the VALIANT universe could be successful if done right..and at least he couldve written a valiant solar (which is all i really wanted)

by the way all my opinions are just that..

[Knightt]

by the way all my opinions are just that..

Then I suggest you point that out from the beginning. Instead, you appear to be talking about something in which you may only know half the story, and even that is not first hand knowledge.

Throwing blame around is easy, in my opinion.

[MoonChild]

Jim seems like a real smart guy, an original, a creative genuis. All genuis are with faults as well. One thing I can agree on is I really wish he stayed with VEI a little longer to see it might have been worth the effort. But then again, it might have been heart breaking to him [to not have full creative control, the way he did originally] Valiant was his baby, you know. Who knows maybe he'll write a title or two for VEI, it could happen.

[Brother J]

Oh boy, this guy is back again.

This guy is the looneybird who swore up and down that he saw a Solar #10 white variant and had a meltdown when asked to provide proof.

** EDIT ** Curse-filled rant related to the possibility
of a Solar #10 "White" cover was deleted by Greg
(There are kids reading this board...) ** EDIT **

So of course when he comes back, his first post is titled "JIM SHOOTER IS AN IDIOT!!", very nice.

Like you know any of the details behind the scenes about what happened between Shooter and VEI.

How this guy has never been banned but guys like ZWH and MOTA have been is just a farce.

[leonmallett]

That's quite a sensationalist headline you've chosen there.

I'm sure there are dozens of ways to see the events and probably none of them are completely right.

If you're VEI and you need to choose a person to help you bring back the Valiant universe, you might choose Jim Shooter.
Who could blame you?

If you're Jim Shooter and you need to choose between working for a couple of guys who are new to the industry or a guy who's been around a long time and established his company... you might pick the established guy.
Who could blame you?

If you're Dark Horse and you've gotten the rights to Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok, and you've convinced Jim Shooter to work for you, but the books aren't making any money... you might start thinking about cutting your losses.
Who could blame you?

If you're Dark Horse and you've decided to stop publishing Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok, but you know that a competitor is interested in those properties, you might just sit on them and do nothing at all.
Who could blame you?

If you're VEI and you've tried to work with Jim Shooter and you've tried to get the rights to Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok, but you know that neither of those things worked out, you need to choose other people to work with and you need to build a universe with characters where you have complete control.
Who could blame you?

If you're a fan of Valiant and Jim Shooter, you would like to see both of them back together, and you would like things to be as perfect as possible. You might be disappointed when things don't work out, and you might have a negative view of some of the people involved.
Who could blame you?

Blame is cheap and easy to throw around. It's unlikely that any of us are qualified to throw it in the right direction every time, though.

This.

Not VEI's greatest supporter here (but I will support them in what they publish), and indeed not Jim Shooter's greatest fan (not least since his version of history - in relation to whichever publisher - seems to smack or revisionism, and some of his writing tricks and defaults don't work well for me), but Greg sums it up very well; some choices all around from all parties mentioned that have simply not worked out well. Doesn't make them idiots though does it, valiantdude? We can all be wise in hindsight.

[X-O HoboJoe]

Who knows. Forget It, Drive On.

Make good comics and the past becomes a joke that dies from overkill.

[400yrs]

Who knows. Forget It, Drive On.

Make good comics and the past becomes a joke that dies from overkill.

Well put. At the end of the day, most of us just want good comics.

[caxiotis]

Who knows. Forget It, Drive On.

Make good comics and the past becomes a joke that dies from overkill.

Well put. At the end of the day, most of us just want good comics.

[MoonChild]

Who knows. Forget It, Drive On.

Make good comics and the past becomes a joke that dies from overkill.

Well put. At the end of the day, most of us just want good comics.

[BruceReville]

Who knows. Forget It, Drive On.

Make good comics and the past becomes a joke that dies from overkill.

Well put. At the end of the day, most of us just want good comics.

[etos45]

I'm actually on the *SQUEE* Solar, Magnus and Turok mindset. ONLY THE VALIANT!

I'm starting to get on this bandwagon. If they're going to do a reboot anyways, I don't see the point of adding the potential problems that licensed characters could have. I really hope that some miracle happens and Shooter winds up back at Dark Horse with the Gold Key books, because I want the stories to continue.

If VEI finds some way to keep Phil and make him relatively the same character, the I don't see there being too big of a whole in the modern day Valiant... not sure how they will handle Rai and Psi-Lords, though, without 4001AD.

[hotwings1979]

valiantdude: Please use proper sentence structure, including capitalization and punctuation.

greg: You make some excellent points regarding the possible scenarios and how blame can be thrown around.

Here are my two cents. I think that the industry is in a state of change. We are migrating from a printed medium to a digital medium and I think while we may look at the sales for printed books we may not know the sales of the digital books. Arguably, the sales of digital copies is probably relatively small.

We are also in the middle of an economic downturn and people are giving up the little luxuries to pay for the necessities and I'm sure this has impacted the comic industry as well. If launched during a different time the Dark Key characters may have had a better reception.

Finally, Jim Shooter is my hero.

[Second_Death]

That's quite a sensationalist headline you've chosen there.

I'm sure there are dozens of ways to see the events and probably none of them are completely right.

If you're VEI and you need to choose a person to help you bring back the Valiant universe, you might choose Jim Shooter.
Who could blame you?

If you're Jim Shooter and you need to choose between working for a couple of guys who are new to the industry or a guy who's been around a long time and established his company... you might pick the established guy.
Who could blame you?

If you're Dark Horse and you've gotten the rights to Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok, and you've convinced Jim Shooter to work for you, but the books aren't making any money... you might start thinking about cutting your losses.
Who could blame you?

If you're Dark Horse and you've decided to stop publishing Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok, but you know that a competitor is interested in those properties, you might just sit on them and do nothing at all.
Who could blame you?

If you're VEI and you've tried to work with Jim Shooter and you've tried to get the rights to Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok, but you know that neither of those things worked out, you need to choose other people to work with and you need to build a universe with characters where you have complete control.
Who could blame you?

If you're a fan of Valiant and Jim Shooter, you would like to see both of them back together, and you would like things to be as perfect as possible. You might be disappointed when things don't work out, and you might have a negative view of some of the people involved.
Who could blame you?

Blame is cheap and easy to throw around. It's unlikely that any of us are qualified to throw it in the right direction every time, though.

Amen.

[Second_Death]

Stan Lee is Marvel. Always will be. Jim Shooter is VALIANT. Always will be.

[Chiclo]

Jim Shooter is VALIANT. Always will be.

I hope not. Otherwise the new Valiant is screwed.

[wrunow]

Stan Lee is Marvel. Always will be. Jim Shooter is VALIANT. Always will be.

Actually, Marvel is Disney and Stan Lee's been gone from their creative teams for over 20 years, and Jim Shooter is unemployed in the comic world as it is right now.

Also, Stan Lee is a multi millionare-Shooter still working for paychecks.

Not a very good comparison.

[etos45]

Stan Lee is Marvel. Always will be. Jim Shooter is VALIANT. Always will be.

I would say in some ways this is a fair comparison... Stan Lee essentially put Marvel in the direction that it went. Jim Shooter (Hopefully) will have inspired new Valiant to go in the direction he originally created and that influence will make them awesome. Much like how Stan Lee isn't with Marvel anymore, Valiant doesn't need Jim Shooter to have a good thing.

BTW - I really hope to meet Stan (the man) Lee this year at Dragon-Con...

[myron]

Jim seems like a real smart guy, an original, a creative genuis. All genuis are with faults as well. One thing I can agree on is I really wish he stayed with VEI a little longer to see it might have been worth the effort. But then again, it might have been heart breaking to him [to not have full creative control, the way he did originally] Valiant was his baby, you know. Who knows maybe he'll write a title or two for VEI, it could happen.

[OmenSpirits.com]

Jack Kirby is Marvel. Always will be. Jim Shooter is VALIANT. Always will be.

*fixed*

[xodacia81]

Jack Kirby is Marvel. Always will be. Jim Shooter is VALIANT. Always will be.

*fixed*

Wonderful fix.