Where do you fall?

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:40 am

Reading the interview by Bob Layton on his website, he is quoted about a "Shooter Zombie". I am curious how people view themselves (see poll).

Myself, I sort of fall between. While I am sure that they both feel their version of the truth is accurate, the truth (what happened when Shooter left, why he left, etc) is probably somewhere between. Their versions have gotten "focused" based on their ideas, their view of history, etc.

Chris

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:30 am

"I don't care. Valiant sucked at the end." is the only choice that kind of clicked with me.

I have much respect for the work of Jim Shooter, but I'm not a "Shooter Zombie". However, when I play Resident Evil, I am a "Zombie Shooter"!:)

I have alot of respect for Bob Layton's work also. Aside from his Editorial title, he is a great artist! Being EIC of Valiant was no easy job in the dog-eat-dog business world of comics. He's been through more crap than I realized. In the end of V1, he was merely a figurehead who made no major decisions, but took all the blame. I find this part of the Valiant story more important (& sad) than the whole Shooter ordeal.

Steve Massarsky---You can't hate him for being a shrewd businessman. You can hate him for destroying Valiant. But he wasn't a comic-guy. I don't think he knew (or cared) how much we loved the characters & the universe. It was just a cash-cow for him. He hasn't had anything to do with comics since, thank God.

Evil Jon Hartz---The Promotional genuis behind all our favorite promos, like the wonderful Gold books. This guy was the icing on the cake. Now, after it's all said & done, he is a recluse in CT, & also has nothing to do with comics or comic-people anymore.

The story of Valiant comics reads like a Shakespeare tragedy, & ended before the final Act was written. Will Valiant ever come back? "To be or not to be, that is the question..." After suffering the 'slings & arrows of outragous fortune', I'm afraid the answer is "Alas, Valiant, I knew ye well."

Pretty corny, huh?

---Steve G

justin · Post by **justin** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:34 am

Well said Steve, shakespeare quote and all!

-A

(laughed my *SQUEE* off about the shooter zombie, resident evil zombie shooter bit though)

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:44 am

Awesome post Steve.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:44 am

Nice to see a Resident Evil reference ...

Bob maybe misses the point on the Shooter Zombie thing (I've shot a few myself

). I kind of think of Shooter and the Valiant Universe the same way I think of Stan Lee and Marvel.

Granted, Marvel went a longer way, but those two guys were the key players in laying the groundwork for some great comic book stories. Marvel just had a happier ending.

I looked at a little bit of the Defiant stuff and the Broadway stuff, but I'm just as likely to pick up something Layton is working on. I'm no zombie, but I do respect Shooter's work.

Bob's right, though. People in suits should stay the hell out of the talent's face.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:12 pm

This sure is an old poll...

-slym

Unblessed · Post by **Unblessed** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:49 pm

Vault-Keeper wrote:"I don't care. Valiant sucked at the end." is the only choice that kind of clicked with me.

I have much respect for the work of Jim Shooter, but I'm not a "Shooter Zombie". However, when I play Resident Evil, I am a "Zombie Shooter"!:)

I have alot of respect for Bob Layton's work also. Aside from his Editorial title, he is a great artist! Being EIC of Valiant was no easy job in the dog-eat-dog business world of comics. He's been through more crap than I realized. In the end of V1, he was merely a figurehead who made no major decisions, but took all the blame. I find this part of the Valiant story more important (& sad) than the whole Shooter ordeal.

Steve Massarsky---You can't hate him for being a shrewd businessman. You can hate him for destroying Valiant. But he wasn't a comic-guy. I don't think he knew (or cared) how much we loved the characters & the universe. It was just a cash-cow for him. He hasn't had anything to do with comics since, thank God.

Evil Jon Hartz---The Promotional genuis behind all our favorite promos, like the wonderful Gold books. This guy was the icing on the cake. Now, after it's all said & done, he is a recluse in CT, & also has nothing to do with comics or comic-people anymore.

The story of Valiant comics reads like a Shakespeare tragedy, & ended before the final Act was written. Will Valiant ever come back? "To be or not to be, that is the question..." After suffering the 'slings & arrows of outragous fortune', I'm afraid the answer is "Alas, Valiant, I knew ye well."

Pretty corny, huh? ---Steve G

Wow, I actually read all of that and somewhat agree. Obligatory

smiley post.

~The Unblessed Soul

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:12 pm

Boy! That's a oldie! I wrote that the day I received my Magnus #0 VcVSS from Dino! Three weeks later, I was banned from the boards until December. Although being banned didn't keep me away, I went underground as Wizard of Utopia! Glad you liked the post!

---Steve

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:25 pm

Vault-Keeper wrote:Boy! That's a oldie! I wrote that the day I received my Magnus #0 VcVSS from Dino! Three weeks later, I was banned from the boards until December. Although being banned didn't keep me away, I went underground as Wizard of Utopia! Glad you liked the post! ---Steve

Great post Steve.

Wish I was a member at the time.

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:47 am

Good poll.

I chose "Shooter Zombie" because nearly everything great about Valiant seems to have come from him. He made the vh1 universe happen, laid the groundwork for the entire thing, watched continuity and larger plot development like a hawk, and gave character to the majority of our favorite characters. Once he left (Unity and after), the only comic that really managed to keep my attention was Magnus. I really respect where that title went, even though nobody else does. Other than that, X-O's character went all wrong, Rai (my favorite) was discarded, Shadowman sucked, and Harbinger completely lost its focal point until issue #25 (and then promptly lost it worse than the first time). Solar's a tough call. I have trouble comparing pre and post unity for that title.

Yes, I truly believe Shooter is probably a major *SQUEE* to work with, but that doesn't detract from the fact that the man is a genious.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:19 pm

shaxper wrote:Good poll.

I chose "Shooter Zombie" because nearly everything great about Valiant seems to have come from him. He made the vh1 universe happen, laid the groundwork for the entire thing, watched continuity and larger plot development like a hawk, and gave character to the majority of our favorite characters. Once he left (Unity and after), the only comic that really managed to keep my attention was Magnus. I really respect where that title went, even though nobody else does. Other than that, X-O's character went all wrong, Rai (my favorite) was discarded, Shadowman sucked, and Harbinger completely lost its focal point until issue #25 (and then promptly lost it worse than the first time). Solar's a tough call. I have trouble comparing pre and post unity for that title.

Yes, I truly believe Shooter is probably a major *SKREE* to work with, but that doesn't detract from the fact that the man is a genious.

I agree, but I also believe that Bob Layton had a huge part in also creating the original Valiant Universe with Jim Shooter. To me, it was undeniably the combination of the two that made the early Valiant Universe we all loved & miss.---Steve

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:16 pm

Vault-Keeper wrote:
I agree, but I also believe that Bob Layton had a huge part in also creating the original Valiant Universe with Jim Shooter. To me, it was undeniably the combination of the two that made the early Valiant Universe we all loved & miss.---Steve

I guess I've never heard that side of it. I'd be curious to know more. Has Shooter or anyone else verified any of this, or is it just a series of claims by Layton?

childres · Post by **childres** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:06 am

Shooter, Layton, & BWS. It definately was the golden Era for Valiant when they were all there!

-Joe

comic mischief · Post by **comic mischief** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:10 pm

I voted "somewhere in between." Asking why are you? I have never been a huge fan of the men/women behind the stories themselves, just the story. However, I do not believe that Valiant rocked all the way to the end even though I continued to read, and like the titles. Neither do I beleive that Valiant sucked at the end. I had to go with "somewhere in between."

inmyblood · Post by **inmyblood** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:35 pm

Actually I'm a Rob-Zombie Valiant fan boy. Hence I couldn't vote.

inmyblood · Post by **inmyblood** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:36 pm

Actually I'm a Rob-Zombie Valiant fan boy.

inmyblood · Post by **inmyblood** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:37 pm

For real though I'm a BWS Valiant fan boy.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:04 pm

Where do you fall?

Asleep...

-slym

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:05 am

slym2none wrote:
Where do you fall?
Asleep...

-slym

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:38 am

Daniel Jackson wrote:
slym2none wrote:
Where do you fall?
Asleep...

-slym
ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:44 pm

Has anyone replied, "Usually on my butt," yet?

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:55 pm

I fall on my head, which causes me to get banned from this site and pick fights with old men.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:11 pm

Who you calling 'Old', Sport?

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:09 pm

If Jaknife is young enough to be your son.... then face it, you're old.

Dr. Phil Seleski · Post by **Dr. Phil Seleski** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:31 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:If Jaknife is young enough to be your son.... then face it, you're old.

What is he 16? I guess I could of been making babies when I was 12.

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