Q on the fate of HARDCorps and the Harbingers

[Todd Luck]

In Rai #0 both the Harbinger population of Earth and the HARDCorps left Earth in the far future. I know HARDCorps ended up becoming Starwatchers (PsiLords, whatever you want to call them) but I never really got any issues with them in it. What exactly did they do in outer space for a 1000 years before reappearing on Earth?

I also know their was a PsiLords story dealing with a ship of Harbingers. Did they reveal what happened to the Harbingers that went into space?

Thanks.

[twofour]

I thought the Harbingers stayed on earth? I might be wrong because I have been drinking today.

twofour

[ManofTheAtom]

The Harbingers didn't leave Earth with the Corps, they most likely died out, which is why there were no Harbingers in the future, till Magnus (who's actually from the past) arrived there.

The Corps found a planet of their own and evolved in to the Psi-Lords, a Green Lantern-style police force.

The ship filled with Harbingers was sent out into space by Toyo Harada (we saw it in an issue of Solar) and then reappeared in an issue of Psi-Lords in the future.

What happened with the Harbingers after that was not explored.

[DJSpecter]

Valiant Continuity Spoiler





Harbingers died out for two reasons: 1, no more omega Harbingers.
2, after the Harbinger wars were over, regular humans exhibited hostility towards those that had Harbinger powers. (for enslaving and killing most of them over the course of a thousand years, good reason says I)

-Dave

[ManofTheAtom]

Yeah, that makes sense.

After Harada died, the wars ended and the Corps left Earth, there must have been a dark era in the VALIANT Universe where the once heroic Harbingers of the resistance were hunted down just for being different.

Same for all other heroes most probably.

[DJSpecter]

The only Valiant guys left on earth besides Harbingers would be Gilad, Aram (probably not, Rai 0 says he went off world in like 2020 or so), and the occasional Ivar. Magnus is the next guy around and he doesn't pop out of the air until the end of the 40th century (3975?). Regarding Solar, he for the most part wasn't around and whatever he did do, he did real secretly.

(True you have the Rai's, but you know, even that isn't for a while.)

-Dave

[ManofTheAtom]

Not too secretly, we saw him on a monitor screen in that bar Erica's son (argh, I forgot his name!! Must read VALIANT, must read VALIANT...) went into.

Gilad must have been kindda like Wolverine was in Days of Future Past, trying to protect and keep all Harbingers safe.

He obviously failed. The grief over that must have been wiped out of his mind.

Considering Gilad's role during the Malev War, and the circumstances around his disapearance, it could be theorized that he took that ship with the refugees and just left Earth, a last valiant attempt to succeed where he had failed before.

Of course, he would have had to return sometime after that since he was mentioned in a Post Malev War issue.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think that what DJ means is that without Omega Harbingers there was no one left to "pop" any other potential Harbingers, so they got reabsorbed into the "normal" population of the Earth, with some possible exceptions that were more than likely hunted down and killed.

[screamingdc]

wasn't John Stancheck an Omega Harbinger?

didn't the HARDCorps leave before the Harbinger wars were over? i'm not sure, i don't have my Rai 0 in front of me.

lastly, just because there aren't any Omega Harbingers doesn't mean a Harbinger's power can't be released, right? Archer is a perfect example of that.

[ManofTheAtom]

Harbingers don't need an Omega to pop them, it's not a rule, but they do need some kind of traumatic event to activate their abilities.

In Archer's case, it was dying.

Peter's was probably explored in the 0 issue but I don't remember what it was.

And Solar isn't considered a Harbinger, I don't think DJ was refering to him as one.

He brought Solar up because he was doing a general census of who the VALIANT heroes who'd still be alive by the end of the war were

screamingdc, the Corps left Earth in 2999, after the War ended.

[DJSpecter]

You were right on the census of Valiant char. thing (because it was initially stated that all superheros would be hunted).

However Harbingers almost always need an Omega to pop, Omega's don't pop, they just sorta happen (Peter's power came out slowly by itself over time), Harada poped when he was very young, and then killed his parents for being afraid of his powers.

Other than Archer and Bloodshot, I can't think of Harbingers that self popped (maybe Magnus, and Torque, but I always wanted a story to be that really an Omega popped them during a time travel or something).

Most Harbingers were troubled growing up (Torque is a fine example for ealier readers, Sonix (Butch, Gaylord, McFaddin) for later readers. This is clearly stated somewhere.

-Dave

[ManofTheAtom]

wasn't John Stancheck an Omega Harbinger?

Took me awhile, but I see what you mean.

As an Omega, he would have popped a lot of Harbingers to fight back the humans who attacked them after the war.

This could have very well happened, but clearly it wasn't enough as, less than a thousand years later, Harbingers had been extinguished.

[ManofTheAtom]

However Harbingers almost always need an Omega to pop, Omega's don't pop, they just sorta happen (Peter's power came out slowly by itself over time), Harada poped when he was very young, and then killed his parents for being afraid of his powers.

Other than Archer and Bloodshot, I can't think of Harbingers that self popped (maybe Magnus, and Torque, but I always wanted a story to be that really an Omega popped them during a time travel or something).

Most Harbingers were troubled growing up (Torque is a fine example for ealier readers, Sonix (Butch, Gaylord, McFaddin) for later readers. This is clearly stated somewhere.

Ok, let's say that by the year the Rai story in Secrets 3 happened in (3050? I don't remember), all Harbingers had already been hunted down and killed.

The war ended in 2999 and John Stanchek (inside Harada's body at the time) was the last Omega Harbinger.

He could have been one of the first to fall... for all we know, Gilad could have been the one that killed him (speculation, but wouldn't it make for a cool story?)

With John, the last Omega, dead, all others were hunted down and killed.

New potential Harbingers were born, but with no one to pop them or for whatever reason they didn't pop on their own, they just faded away, slowly being reabsorbed into the normal human gene pool till, by 4001, the Harbinger gene was completely gone.

Millions of years of evolution gone in less than a millenium (or half a century, depending what year that Secrets #3 story takes place in)...

[Brother J]

Gilad must have been kindda like Wolverine was in Days of Future Past, trying to protect and keep all Harbingers safe.

He obviously failed. The grief over that must have been wiped out of his mind.

You didn't forget that Gilad of the future was psycho-probed, did you? I'm pretty sure that was what wiped out his mind, not just grief.

[Todd Luck]

The Harbingers didn't leave Earth with the Corps, they most likely died out, which is why there were no Harbingers in the future, till Magnus (who's actually from the past) arrived there.

The Corps found a planet of their own and evolved in to the Psi-Lords, a Green Lantern-style police force.

The ship filled with Harbingers was sent out into space by Toyo Harada (we saw it in an issue of Solar) and then reappeared in an issue of Psi-Lords in the future.

What happened with the Harbingers after that was not explored.

How did they become a police force in space? I mean, who was out there for them to police?

Was much said about their nanotechnology and how it developed? I've read that other than mimicing Harbinger powers, it made them immortal and turned their eyes red when in use. It sounds like the Blood of Heroes without the machine controling ability.

On my Harbinger question, I see I misread that Rai #0 panel. Can someone tell me what comic mentioned the post-war hunting down and persecuting Harbingers that some other posts have talked about?

It's true that if the remaining Omega died that would've been the end of "popped" Harbingers (I assume he probably just decided to die naturally and since the body he possessed wouldn't have had the "omega gene" to pass down that would've been the end of the line of omega Harbingers).

However Harbingers were able to manifest a little of their ability without being popped (Ax was a natural hacker, Torque was abnormally strong, Zepplin experienced wierd phenomenon). "Un-popped" psychics like Leja (sic) were all over the place in Magnus. I'm sure their are other examples (though I try to ignore the contradictory and dumb line in Magnus #25 about A-1 not experimenting on people but using those with "natural abilities" for his failed robot fighters)

[ManofTheAtom]

You didn't forget that Gilad of the future was psycho-probed, did you? I'm pretty sure that was what wiped out his mind, not just grief.

That's what I meant, that the memories of whatever he had to do or happened during the Harbinger hunt must have been wiped during one of those multiple psycho-probes.

Makes you wonder how many of them were forced and how many were voluntary...

[ManofTheAtom]

How did they become a police force in space? I mean, who was out there for them to police?

Aliens, whom they conquered. The Psi-Lords would create a space station on an alien solar system and eventually conquer it from there.

Was much said about their nanotechnology and how it developed? I've read that other than mimicing Harbinger powers, it made them immortal and turned their eyes red when in use. It sounds like the Blood of Heroes without the machine controling ability.

Yeah, their nanotech was explained a few times in the earlier issues. I'd recomend them.

On my Harbinger question, I see I misread that Rai #0 panel. Can someone tell me what comic mentioned the post-war hunting down and persecuting Harbingers that some other posts have talked about?

We're speculating that it happened, it was never mentioned.

Our speculation is based on the fact that by 4001 (1002 years after the end of the war) there are no Harbingers left.

Something must have happened to them. After all, we know they won the war.

It's true that if the remaining Omega died that would've been the end of "popped" Harbingers (I assume he probably just decided to die naturally and since the body he possessed wouldn't have had the "omega gene" to pass down that would've been the end of the line of omega Harbingers).

Could be.

However Harbingers were able to manifest a little of their ability without being popped (Ax was a natural hacker, Torque was abnormally strong, Zepplin experienced wierd phenomenon). "Un-popped" psychics like Leja (sic) were all over the place in Magnus. I'm sure their are other examples (though I try to ignore the contradictory and dumb line in Magnus #25 about A-1 not experimenting on people but using those with "natural abilities" for his failed robot fighters)

True, there must have been some kind of people with some sort of special abilities but that weren't full Harbingers because there was no one to pop them.

[Brother J]

That's what I meant, that the memories of whatever he had to do or happened during the Harbinger hunt must have been wiped during one of those multiple psycho-probes.

Yeah, I read that sentence wrong, I thought you were saying the grief itself caused his memory loss!

[ManofTheAtom]

Yeah, I read that sentence wrong, I thought you were saying the grief itself caused his memory loss!

Heh

[Todd Luck]

How did they become a police force in space? I mean, who was out there for them to police?

Aliens, whom they conquered. The Psi-Lords would create a space station on an alien solar system and eventually conquer it from there.

Was much said about their nanotechnology and how it developed? I've read that other than mimicing Harbinger powers, it made them immortal and turned their eyes red when in use. It sounds like the Blood of Heroes without the machine controling ability.

Yeah, their nanotech was explained a few times in the earlier issues. I'd recomend them.

On my Harbinger question, I see I misread that Rai #0 panel. Can someone tell me what comic mentioned the post-war hunting down and persecuting Harbingers that some other posts have talked about?

We're speculating that it happened, it was never mentioned.

Our speculation is based on the fact that by 4001 (1002 years after the end of the war) there are no Harbingers left.

Something must have happened to them. After all, we know they won the war.

Wow. The book does sound interesting. Hopefully I'll find some issues of it someday. It's cool that they found an alien solar system. Were the aliens ever shown?

And I wouldn't assume the humans built and army of Sentinels to whip out the the Harbingers . Their's no reason for them to exist after the last Omega Harbinger died. They could've all died of natural causes by the 3000 or 3100 unless their was a Harbinger ability that made you immortal (and since everything else in the Valiant Universe makes you immortal and gives you healing factor, making that Harbinger ability would've been redundant )

[ManofTheAtom]

Wow. The book does sound interesting. Hopefully I'll find some issues of it someday. It's cool that they found an alien solar system. Were the aliens ever shown?

Yeah, a race of aliens visited their station on our solar system and tried to warn Earth that the Psi-Lords weren't good.

It was a very cool story.

And I wouldn't assume the humans built and army of Sentinels to whip out the the Harbingers . Their's no reason for them to exist after the last Omega Harbinger died. They could've all died of natural causes by the 3000 or 3100 unless their was a Harbinger ability that made you immortal (and since everything else in the Valiant Universe makes you immortal and gives you healing factor, making that Harbinger ability would've been redundant )

Well, anything's possible really.

But when you consider that we're talking about a storytelling medium, what's more likely;

That Harbingers just died out or that something worthy of being told as a story happened?

[DJSpecter]

Just to reiterate, my source that the Harbingers were persecuted was the Valiant Continuity Bible.

Interestingly enough, although I would have thought that Leeja, Meri and others rich in "ecotheric energy" were of a similar power source. According to the VCB they were of different sources, but I think I recall a later issue of Rai claiming that they were of similar origin.

Regarding the starwatcher/bloodshot technology. Bloodshot's ability to control machines (and subsequent users of his blood to do so) was based on his latent Harbinger ability. This is explained in the Rai Companion.

-Dave

[ManofTheAtom]

Just to reiterate, my source that the Harbingers were persecuted was the Valiant Continuity Bible.

Oh?

What does it say exactly?

Does it give a timeline for that?

[DJSpecter]

Valiant Continuity Bible Major Spoiler


Feb 2990- The end of the Harbinger wars

"July 3020-Technology begins to break down in the city-states as isolationist policies begin to take hold. Anti-Harbinger sentiments race through the cities like brush-fire and acts of violence against those manifesting powers becomes commonplace. The regions between the city-states become over-run with scavangers, road pirates, mutants, and renegade Harbingers. "

Aug. 3050 -Grandmother becomes freewill

June 3140- The first Rai is made in Bloodshot's image.

so there you have it. I know not to what these "mutants" refer. also notice that even before Grandmother became freewill, most of the Harbingers had likely died out of old age alone. certainly by the time TRai came around the Harbingers were something that people told their great grandchildren about.

-Dave

[ManofTheAtom]

Very cool.