Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[nycjadie]

My kids feel entitled to watch anything they want, whenever they want. It's the entitlement to instant everything. They won't know anything else unless we face the zombie apocalypse. It makes me a bit sad, because they have absolutely no patience for anything else. The instant everything will not make them happier or better people. And older folks like myself won't understand it - the entitlement to the instant everything.

[paradise]

Well, so far, DCBS is $20 and Midtown is $34. Lone star and Mile High still have it listed at normal price, but I'm assuming that's simply because they haven't noticed yet. Having dealt with both subscription services in the past, there is basically zero chance they are honoring those prices. And to Mr. Super Defender of Valiant Idiocy Retailer, have you bothered to ask the conditions for issues 2-4? We know they will be 1:10 instead of 1:25, but as far as I know, that is ALL that has been revealed about them. I'm betting those are neither 80% off or returnable. The conditions for #1 are obviously VERY retailer friendly. I just don't see them doing that for all 4 issues. I have a feeling there are going to either be a LOT of unsold sets of Book of Death or quite a few rather unhappy customers. They say they are trying to artificially recreate Valiant's past, and, in my opinion, they are, but the past they are re-creating is Deathmate not Harbinger #0. You won't be able to buy a blind lot of comics on ebay for years without multiple copies of Book of Death in it.

See, with you calling me a silly name, you show yourself for what you are, and i don't even have to say it

I do know what the incentives are, and they ARE super friendly for any retailer who participates in promotion for the first issue. I can't talk about it yet, because I happen to respect VEI and they will announce it when they have to, as it's WAAAAY too early. We have not even placed initial orders for the first issue, nor have we done the Final Order Cut off orders (FOC) for the first issue. Retailers who read their "retailer" version of Previews will see all incentives on all issues VERY clearly.

I have already offered a set of all 4 issues of Legends to several people who are in a situation where they don't have any choice. I have my own reasons and reservations for not making a public post about it and taking orders. I am a huge Valiant fan and collector, you probably don't know that, but it's ok. If and when I offer the 4 issue set, you will know what it is, and have plenty of chance to *SQUEE* and complain about that too. OK? Good luck.

Oh, and read the post above mine about entitlement, you may learn a thing or two.

[paradise]

I don't particularly think its that funny that between now and release day people who want Legend of the Geomancer are going to come to the realization may not be able to get it.
Thats another two months of disgruntled fans.
Theres no way everyones going to realize whats going on by the time Initial orders are due in two weeks or so!!

See the promotion was designed to have fans bring it up to retailers' attention before they sit down with the order form. As a retailer, you get the order form a month before you need to place your INITIAL orders. You should be paying attention to it, looking for things you need to bring to your customers' attention, books you want to promote and push. That's what a DECENT retailer should do. Some of us go further. I have monthly meetings with my store managers (Dinesh has actually sat in on one or more of those) where we sit down and discuss the Previews catalog and decide what we will focus on, how we are going to order things, what promotions are worth following.

But here is the kicker. 3 weeks before product release, there is a thing called FOC (Final Order Cutoff) where a retailer can adjust any orders placed on the Initial order form. It's done online on the Diamond site, and all the incentives and promotions are listed right there, CANT MISS IT.

If you think retailers are ordering blindly and have no clue, that is not true. BAD and LAZY retailers do that. If yours is one of those, they do not deserve your patronage. YOU HAVE OPTIONS.

[paradise]

I see that the Previews catalog very clearly states the returnability clause, the discounts, etc. How could any retailer miss those important terms?

I assume that you said this sarcastically. Well, just to let you know, that's a version of Previews for consumers, so listing discounts and returnability in that is against all kinds of codes.

Retailers get a special version of previews order form that shows EVERYTHING.

What this page was meant to do was peak their interest and make them at least aware of the promotion. More than any publisher does in their Previews solicits. Clearly visible as a 1:25 incentive, not a regular book. DCBS should have seen that.

[Donovan]

Ed, please don't stop posting in this thread.

[paradise]

Ed, please don't stop posting in this thread.

I was going to but some individuals keep posting things that are so not factual and wrong that I can't help myself but to take those statements down a notch with facts

[ilzuccone]

Regardless of what anyone else thinks of this promotion, it has soured me some.

this right here is exactly why i think this promotion has already failed.

bummer really.

[ilzuccone]

I'm going to see if Ed responds to my question above and then I'm going to avoid this thread.

That's what Ed said too, about a half dozen of his posts back.

I think the popular response to those threatening to quit anything was, "You'll be back."

It is clear that VEI have accomplished one thing with this, though - they've divided the most rabid fan base into two warring factions. That doesn't seem like a good thing at all.

And that's the primary reason, objectively, that I don't think this promotion is a good idea.

Or at least, not so much the fan vs fan, but I think the general hostility between various elements due to a disparity in access to the book.

This just in . . . for every 25 copies of LoG #1 ordered, retailers can order 1 copy of Book of Death: The Geomancer Wars - a special 40-page comic reprinting the heated discussions on VF.com regarding Valiant's variants program.

[jeremycoe]

This just in . . . for every 25 copies of LoG #1 ordered, retailers can order 1 copy of Book of Death: The Geomancer Wars - a special 40-page comic reprinting the heated discussions on VF.com regarding Valiant's variants program.

I don't like this because it was available digitally first. It's not fair to those of use that support VEI by buying physical copies.

[ilzuccone]

This just in . . . for every 25 copies of LoG #1 ordered, retailers can order 1 copy of Book of Death: The Geomancer Wars - a special 40-page comic reprinting the heated discussions on VF.com regarding Valiant's variants program.

I don't like this because it was available digitally first. It's not fair to those of use that support VEI by buying physical copies.

[iggy101us]

This just in . . . for every 25 copies of LoG #1 ordered, retailers can order 1 copy of Book of Death: The Geomancer Wars - a special 40-page comic reprinting the heated discussions on VF.com regarding Valiant's variants program.

I don't like this because it was available digitally first. It's not fair to those of use that support VEI by buying physical copies.

+1:25

[kjjohanson]

I'm going to see if Ed responds to my question above and then I'm going to avoid this thread.

That's what Ed said too, about a half dozen of his posts back.

I think the popular response to those threatening to quit anything was, "You'll be back."

It is clear that VEI have accomplished one thing with this, though - they've divided the most rabid fan base into two warring factions. That doesn't seem like a good thing at all.

And that's the primary reason, objectively, that I don't think this promotion is a good idea.

Or at least, not so much the fan vs fan, but I think the general hostility between various elements due to a disparity in access to the book.

This just in . . . for every 25 copies of LoG #1 ordered, retailers can order 1 copy of Book of Death: The Geomancer Wars - a special 40-page comic reprinting the heated discussions on VF.com regarding Valiant's variants program.

I will take 7.

Let's see… that's 175 copies of LotG, which is 4375 copies of Book of Death…

Make it 11.

[kjjohanson]

Well, so far, DCBS is $20 and Midtown is $34. Lone star and Mile High still have it listed at normal price, but I'm assuming that's simply because they haven't noticed yet. Having dealt with both subscription services in the past, there is basically zero chance they are honoring those prices.

I emailed Mile High to ask, cuz I'd certainly start a subscription service if they were offering it for the price of a regular issue. They responded that it was an error, and they've removed it from the list.

[mietha]

Well, so far, DCBS is $20 and Midtown is $34. Lone star and Mile High still have it listed at normal price, but I'm assuming that's simply because they haven't noticed yet. Having dealt with both subscription services in the past, there is basically zero chance they are honoring those prices.

I emailed Mile High to ask, cuz I'd certainly start a subscription service if they were offering it for the price of a regular issue. They responded that it was an error, and they've removed it from the list.

And will be charging $25 a copy, or at least that is what Greg from NICE (their subscription service) told me. Lone Star hasn't responded as of yet.

[drmirage]

Impulse Creations has this book for $17.50 for their sub. The price for this 1:25 Variant is $25 less 30% discount.

[mietha]

Well, so far, DCBS is $20 and Midtown is $34. Lone star and Mile High still have it listed at normal price, but I'm assuming that's simply because they haven't noticed yet. Having dealt with both subscription services in the past, there is basically zero chance they are honoring those prices. And to Mr. Super Defender of Valiant Idiocy Retailer, have you bothered to ask the conditions for issues 2-4? We know they will be 1:10 instead of 1:25, but as far as I know, that is ALL that has been revealed about them. I'm betting those are neither 80% off or returnable. The conditions for #1 are obviously VERY retailer friendly. I just don't see them doing that for all 4 issues. I have a feeling there are going to either be a LOT of unsold sets of Book of Death or quite a few rather unhappy customers. They say they are trying to artificially recreate Valiant's past, and, in my opinion, they are, but the past they are re-creating is Deathmate not Harbinger #0. You won't be able to buy a blind lot of comics on ebay for years without multiple copies of Book of Death in it.

See, with you calling me a silly name, you show yourself for what you are, and i don't even have to say it

I do know what the incentives are, and they ARE super friendly for any retailer who participates in promotion for the first issue. I can't talk about it yet, because I happen to respect VEI and they will announce it when they have to, as it's WAAAAY too early. We have not even placed initial orders for the first issue, nor have we done the Final Order Cut off orders (FOC) for the first issue. Retailers who read their "retailer" version of Previews will see all incentives on all issues VERY clearly.

I have already offered a set of all 4 issues of Legends to several people who are in a situation where they don't have any choice. I have my own reasons and reservations for not making a public post about it and taking orders. I am a huge Valiant fan and collector, you probably don't know that, but it's ok. If and when I offer the 4 issue set, you will know what it is, and have plenty of chance to *SQUEE* and complain about that too. OK? Good luck.

Oh, and read the post above mine about entitlement, you may learn a thing or two.

The problem with you is that you are trying to defend the promotion from a CONSUMER position. You are NOT a consumer. You are a RETAILER. This promotion is, at worst, a win/push for retailers. You can, effectively, get all the copies of BOD:LOG you want for free (eventually; you have to let them hold your money for a while) to keep, or sell at a huge mark-up, which you are ALREADY apparently doing, through this very thread. The fact that you are a Valiant collector is irrelevant. This would be EXACTLY like a car dealer defending the mark-up on a limited run car, because they like it too, even though THEY can get it for dealer cost or Darrell Issa (the richest member of congress; also, humorously, from California) talking about how American poor are the "envy of the world" and how much better off they are than the poor in INDIA, while being worth 460 million dollars. You can't attack someone's opinion on a position you are not in. And apparently reading comprehension is a challenge for several people on here. The idiocy in the comment is directed (rather obviously) at Valiant itself for the promotion. The Super Defender part was directed at you, and are you seriously going to try to argue that that is NOT what you are doing? The promotion IS in your best interest, and convincing people that the promotion is a good thing is ALSO in YOUR best interest. It is NOT in Valiant's best interest (which they will figure out eventually, but it will be too late by then) and it is CERTAINLY not in the consumer's best interest. And would someone like to explain how entitlement applies? Yes, I feel I am entitled to be able to buy a comic book at a reasonable price without having to buy 25 copies of ANOTHER comic for a retailer. I don't feel that that is an unfair expectation. If you, as a retailer, cared about the long-term health of the market, instead of short-term gain (which, by all means, sell them for what you can; that is your right and Valiant has put you squarely in the position to do so), you would know exactly how important the sale of every single title to every single customer is. The VAST majority of the time, when you lose a customer, they DON'T come back. EVER. Why do you think they are so few titles hobby-wide with over 100 issues and the two biggest companies in the biz reboot everything every 15 minutes? As for me, personally, I have reached a decision. I have bought every single issue of every single title offered by Valiant thus far. That ends. I will not be buying BOD: LOG. Nor will I be buying any BOD title, because they would support the promotion. I will also start evaluating each title individually, and so far, that's means I'm keeping Ivar and Imperium and dropping everything else. I may decide to continue to get 2 or 3 more by the cut-off, but once I stop getting a title, I DON'T come back. I'm sure, when the diamond numbers come out, BOD will have "sold" hundreds of thousands of issues (why wouldn't it?), but I'd be willing to bet the sales numbers on every other title are lower, and that they WON'T come back up with time. Comics cost too much and there are too many options out there for Valiant to be throwing away customers it does have for their ill-conceived plan to attract new customers. Do they need to attract new fans? Of course. Is this the way to do it? Of course not.

[Donovan]

And apparently reading comprehension is a challenge for several people on here. The idiocy in the comment is directed (rather obviously) at Valiant itself for the promotion.

This is directed towards me.

I understood fully that idiocy refers to Valiant in your comments. I just found it petty and humourous that you had to resort to anything other than "Paradise" or "Ed" when replying to the poster.

[lorddunlow]

I think this thread and the Dead Drop art joke thread should be moved to the aether.

[Intrepidxc]

Well, so far, DCBS is $20 and Midtown is $34. Lone star and Mile High still have it listed at normal price, but I'm assuming that's simply because they haven't noticed yet. Having dealt with both subscription services in the past, there is basically zero chance they are honoring those prices. And to Mr. Super Defender of Valiant Idiocy Retailer, have you bothered to ask the conditions for issues 2-4? We know they will be 1:10 instead of 1:25, but as far as I know, that is ALL that has been revealed about them. I'm betting those are neither 80% off or returnable. The conditions for #1 are obviously VERY retailer friendly. I just don't see them doing that for all 4 issues. I have a feeling there are going to either be a LOT of unsold sets of Book of Death or quite a few rather unhappy customers. They say they are trying to artificially recreate Valiant's past, and, in my opinion, they are, but the past they are re-creating is Deathmate not Harbinger #0. You won't be able to buy a blind lot of comics on ebay for years without multiple copies of Book of Death in it.

See, with you calling me a silly name, you show yourself for what you are, and i don't even have to say it

I do know what the incentives are, and they ARE super friendly for any retailer who participates in promotion for the first issue. I can't talk about it yet, because I happen to respect VEI and they will announce it when they have to, as it's WAAAAY too early. We have not even placed initial orders for the first issue, nor have we done the Final Order Cut off orders (FOC) for the first issue. Retailers who read their "retailer" version of Previews will see all incentives on all issues VERY clearly.

I have already offered a set of all 4 issues of Legends to several people who are in a situation where they don't have any choice. I have my own reasons and reservations for not making a public post about it and taking orders. I am a huge Valiant fan and collector, you probably don't know that, but it's ok. If and when I offer the 4 issue set, you will know what it is, and have plenty of chance to *SQUEE* and complain about that too. OK? Good luck.

Oh, and read the post above mine about entitlement, you may learn a thing or two.

The problem with you is that you are trying to defend the promotion from a CONSUMER position. You are NOT a consumer. You are a RETAILER. This promotion is, at worst, a win/push for retailers. You can, effectively, get all the copies of BOD:LOG you want for free (eventually; you have to let them hold your money for a while) to keep, or sell at a huge mark-up, which you are ALREADY apparently doing, through this very thread. The fact that you are a Valiant collector is irrelevant. This would be EXACTLY like a car dealer defending the mark-up on a limited run car, because they like it too, even though THEY can get it for dealer cost or Darrell Issa (the richest member of congress; also, humorously, from California) talking about how American poor are the "envy of the world" and how much better off they are than the poor in INDIA, while being worth 460 million dollars. You can't attack someone's opinion on a position you are not in. And apparently reading comprehension is a challenge for several people on here. The idiocy in the comment is directed (rather obviously) at Valiant itself for the promotion. The Super Defender part was directed at you, and are you seriously going to try to argue that that is NOT what you are doing? The promotion IS in your best interest, and convincing people that the promotion is a good thing is ALSO in YOUR best interest. It is NOT in Valiant's best interest (which they will figure out eventually, but it will be too late by then) and it is CERTAINLY not in the consumer's best interest. And would someone like to explain how entitlement applies? Yes, I feel I am entitled to be able to buy a comic book at a reasonable price without having to buy 25 copies of ANOTHER comic for a retailer. I don't feel that that is an unfair expectation. If you, as a retailer, cared about the long-term health of the market, instead of short-term gain (which, by all means, sell them for what you can; that is your right and Valiant has put you squarely in the position to do so), you would know exactly how important the sale of every single title to every single customer is. The VAST majority of the time, when you lose a customer, they DON'T come back. EVER. Why do you think they are so few titles hobby-wide with over 100 issues and the two biggest companies in the biz reboot everything every 15 minutes? As for me, personally, I have reached a decision. I have bought every single issue of every single title offered by Valiant thus far. That ends. I will not be buying BOD: LOG. Nor will I be buying any BOD title, because they would support the promotion. I will also start evaluating each title individually, and so far, that's means I'm keeping Ivar and Imperium and dropping everything else. I may decide to continue to get 2 or 3 more by the cut-off, but once I stop getting a title, I DON'T come back. I'm sure, when the diamond numbers come out, BOD will have "sold" hundreds of thousands of issues (why wouldn't it?), but I'd be willing to bet the sales numbers on every other title are lower, and that they WON'T come back up with time. Comics cost too much and there are too many options out there for Valiant to be throwing away customers it does have for their ill-conceived plan to attract new customers. Do they need to attract new fans? Of course. Is this the way to do it? Of course not.

I tried to stay out but I can't

I don't understand why this promotion is SO bad unless you are outside of the US. I will admit that VEI probably didn't think through international distribution and that's a lesson learned.

I will be buying a copy of LOG, but if I thought $20 was too much I wouldn't buy it. I'm actually buying a set from Ed which includes LOG. While the $75 price tag may put some off when you look at what you are getting it's a lot of comics (variants) for not a lot of money.

If you aren't willing to pay for LOG then don't buy it. I'm not quite sure I get all the butt-hurtness about VEI's decision regarding LOG. Obviously this story won't be key to the VEI universe.

In the 90s I couldn't afford to buy extra copies of Harbinger 1-6 in order to get Harbinger 0. At the time VALIANT never indicated that Harbinger 0 would ever be made available anyway other than coupons. Hell even if you were willing to cut out the coupons it would still cost you $11.70 ($1.95 cover x 6) plus shipping to get Harbinger 0. Inflate that $11.70 (I'm not even counting shipping at this point) in 1992 dollars to 2015 dollars and you get $19.57 . Guess what that is the same price that LOG is selling for right now! Some would argue that you were already buying the Harbinger floppies so the cost isn't relevant. I argue that it is relevant because many people didn't cut coupons and bought additional books. Ultimately that was the point of the offering to increase sales.

Harbinger 0 wasn't the end of the world in 1992 and LOG isn't the end of the world in 2015. Will VEI never publish LOG again? Maybe, Maybe not. I suspect LOG is perfect material to be included in a deluxe hardcover of some form.

BREAK....

I'm not sure why you have the hostility with Ed. Ed has been a huge supporter of VEI and a critic when he disagrees with them. In this instance he is providing a unique insight into owning comic book stores and approaching the BOD:LOG situation from a business standpoint. Ed is probably one of the best comic retailers I've seen in a long time. Especially when compared to the lackluster shops that many of us are required to frequent. I think he knows a thing or two about the comic market. The economics of BOD:LOG make sense at the retailer level and any LCS that isn't interested in putting in very little effort for this promotion is just missing out. My LCS stinks like dynamite stinks and even they will have 5 copies of LOG. The LCS owner confirmed what Ed has said, "The deal is just too good to pass up and involves very little risk".

You may not agree with Ed and you don't have to, but the personal jabs aren't warranted on this forum. I'm all for open discussion and disagreement, but we don't need the personal attacks. Part of the reason I frequent this forum is that membership is generally down right civil (except for that lorddunlow guy and his irrational dislike of all things Canadian , but I digress). I hope you choose to stay and contribute on this forum, but please do so in a constructive manner. Discuss VEI and their policies but please refrain from personal attacks.

[kjjohanson]

Impulse Creations has this book for $17.50 for their sub. The price for this 1:25 Variant is $25 less 30% discount.

It's not a variant.

[drmirage]

Sorry. Yup. Not a variant. But its a 1:25 ratio that is needed to get this book

1:25 Book

[paradise]

Blah, blah, blah....

So, if you are saying I am doing this for my profit, why the hell did I just spend god knows how many pages in this thread telling people how to approach their lazy *SQUEE* stores to try to get them to carry the book and get free stock? That makes no sense. All I have to do is post an ad in buy/sell, "I am selling sets of the incentive mini for $XX " and collect money. Why is it that I have refused about 50 PMs so far from people asking to buy the mini series from me, and why is it that I personally offered to sell those sets to the 2-3 members in UK where apparently it's not easy to do returns for the stores?

I am a defender of this deal because I can think long term, and maybe exactly because I am a retailer, I have the best knowledge to judge whether it's a good idea or not. Publishers come to me asking me and other retailers if it's a good idea to do things certain ways. We deal with both customers and publishers, and have a unique point of view that understands both sides.

And you can go ahead and quit reading, don't let me stop you. Yes, there will be a small percentage of readers who will be upset by this decision. That percentage will be super super tiny, compared to those that go to stores who would not have carried this book on the shelf, and will see it and pick it up and may be start a following for VEI in that store. If this can happen just at 100 stores out of 2,000 or so comic book stores, that's a HUGE deal for VEI. I expect the actual numbers to be much higher, based on how many VEI fans I have been able to create with just 2 books, Ninjak and Bloodshot Reborn.

I know you are thinking "what about me?" and have stated above that you do EXPECT to be treated a certain way. Well, dude, this thing is NOT ABOUT YOU, or anyone specifically. Get over it, whatever that means for you. Quit, don't quit, do something other than continuing to put gasoline on the fire.

[Elveen]

Blah, blah, blah....

So, if you are saying I am doing this for my profit, why the hell did I just spend god knows how many pages in this thread telling people how to approach their lazy *SQUEE* stores to try to get them to carry the book and get free stock? That makes no sense. All I have to do is post an ad in buy/sell, "I am selling sets of the incentive mini for $XX " and collect money. Why is it that I have refused about 50 PMs so far from people asking to buy the mini series from me, and why is it that I personally offered to sell those sets to the 2-3 members in UK where apparently it's not easy to do returns for the stores?

I am a defender of this deal because I can think long term, and maybe exactly because I am a retailer, I have the best knowledge to judge whether it's a good idea or not. Publishers come to me asking me and other retailers if it's a good idea to do things certain ways. We deal with both customers and publishers, and have a unique point of view that understands both sides.

And you can go ahead and quit reading, don't let me stop you. Yes, there will be a small percentage of readers who will be upset by this decision. That percentage will be super super tiny, compared to those that go to stores who would not have carried this book on the shelf, and will see it and pick it up and may be start a following for VEI in that store. If this can happen just at 100 stores out of 2,000 or so comic book stores, that's a HUGE deal for VEI. I expect the actual numbers to be much higher, based on how many VEI fans I have been able to create with just 2 books, Ninjak and Bloodshot Reborn.

I know you are thinking "what about me?" and have stated above that you do EXPECT to be treated a certain way. Well, dude, this thing is NOT ABOUT YOU, or anyone specifically. Get over it, whatever that means for you. Quit, don't quit, do something other than continuing to put gasoline on the fire.

ED you sir are a peach.

[ilzuccone]

Am i the only one here that doesn't read posts longer than 9 or so lines.

[paradise]

Am i the only one here that doesn't read posts longer than 9 or so lines.

product of LAUSD