VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
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- GammaJosh
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
Fair enough, but then why continually bring up Heather and the "diversity hiring" claim/issue? Clearly that is not the reason you're not enjoying Valiant's recent offerings. I provided some pretty unassailable numbers to prove that.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
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That really amused me, thanks for brightening up a grey day!
But onto your points raised ...I can only assume wilful ignorance or you just don’t pay close attention but I’ve been the most critical of many books over the last 12-18 months l, the dire BS Rising Spirit as an example but consistently of FVL ( a straight, white male) more than any of Heather’s diversity hires.
The whole reason I jumped into this thread is because you dragged the issues of race, gender and sexual preference into it, and now you're saying that was never your problem? I find that a little disingenuous. Maybe when you stop and think about it, or are forced to answer directly, you realize that Heather and "diversity hiring" are not the problem, but when you just want to vent or are typing without thinking that's what comes out because you do have a personal problem with it on some level? I can't imagine why else you would continue to bring it up otherwise. The bottom line to me is that you sound like you're saying "Valiant went to hell because they're hiring all these queers" and it's a bad look.
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VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
Dude it might not be the first time that someone like this is deadly serious with their straw man arguments against “diversity hires” and stuff, until someone takes the time to point out the absolute incompatibility of their pet views with rational thought. Then, I believe the common refuge taken is that they were “just kidding” or that we took their flimsy constructions too seriously.
I admire that someone around here has the personal fortitude to force one of these people to draw out one of these discussions to that eventual and inevitable end.
I thought no one in their right mind would carry on after that rhetorical suplex from the top turnbuckle was dropped. Surely an easy three count there?! But no, somehow nihilists like this find their inner Hulkamania and shrug off all further logical power punches, and dig even deeper to return with another barrage of “soy boy” or whatever other labels they’ve got left in the tank.
I admire that someone around here has the personal fortitude to force one of these people to draw out one of these discussions to that eventual and inevitable end.
I thought no one in their right mind would carry on after that rhetorical suplex from the top turnbuckle was dropped. Surely an easy three count there?! But no, somehow nihilists like this find their inner Hulkamania and shrug off all further logical power punches, and dig even deeper to return with another barrage of “soy boy” or whatever other labels they’ve got left in the tank.
Last edited by AnarchoMambo on Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Dallow Spicer1
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
Oh dear, I think maybe I wasn’t as clear in my last post as I thought. Let me give Anarcho Mambo a trigger warning in case he/she/they/zim/sie/vis/tem wants to find a safe space for what I’m about to say...GammaJosh wrote:Fair enough, but then why continually bring up Heather and the "diversity hiring" claim/issue? Clearly that is not the reason you're not enjoying Valiant's recent offerings. I provided some pretty unassailable numbers to prove that.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
![]()
That really amused me, thanks for brightening up a grey day!
But onto your points raised ...I can only assume wilful ignorance or you just don’t pay close attention but I’ve been the most critical of many books over the last 12-18 months l, the dire BS Rising Spirit as an example but consistently of FVL ( a straight, white male) more than any of Heather’s diversity hires.
The whole reason I jumped into this thread is because you dragged the issues of race, gender and sexual preference into it, and now you're saying that was never your problem? I find that a little disingenuous. Maybe when you stop and think about it, or are forced to answer directly, you realize that Heather and "diversity hiring" are not the problem, but when you just want to vent or are typing without thinking that's what comes out because you do have a personal problem with it on some level? I can't imagine why else you would continue to bring it up otherwise. The bottom line to me is that you sound like you're saying "Valiant went to hell because they're hiring all these queers" and it's a bad look.
Ok, just re-clarify my opinion. IF creators are chosen for diversity reasons then that IS a problem in my view and I object to that. Based on Heather Antos’ political views and admitting at a panel to having a diversity agenda then I DO believe Heather Antos is a virtue signaler, enabled by Robert Meyer has selected writers and artists with diversity as a driver in decision making. I have NOT backed away from that or said I was joking.
Equally, if ‘talent first’ people such as Doug Braithwaite, Mico Suayan etc work for Valiant then I’m pleased about that as they are quality artists. If Fiona Staples or Joëlle Jones worked for Valiant or we had more Tula Lotay covers then that would be great also. I don’t have any gay examples as I don’t know which top writers are/aren’t gay.
But also, which I’ve said many times, recruiting average at best talent hasn’t been the only problem, add to that inexplicably using female B and C level characters further evidences the diversity agenda. Forgotten Queen, Roku (lowest ever number 1 sales), Livewire (a 12 issue series, was anyone asking for that?), Punk Mambo, Dr Mirage...can you see a pattern?
Anyway, once you stop hyperventilating I suggest we draw a line under 2019 for the time being and see who they hire in 2020. If it’s Aubrey Sitterson and Sina Grace then we know there’s still an agenda. If they hire quality writers and artists then we know things are back on track!
- kjjohanson
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
[citation needed]Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Based on Heather Antos’ political views and admitting at a panel to having a diversity agenda…
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- kjjohanson
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
What it seems to boil down to is that if Dallow Spicer1 doesn't like a book, and it was created by straight white males, then it's just not a good book, BUT if the book happens to be created by someone "other" then the reason it's not a good book is because the people hired to create the book were hired solely because they were diversity hires, and not because they were comics professionals that simply did not deliver, in his opinion, quality material this time around.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
I'm still wondering what hires were Antos's alleged diversity hires. I'm not completely familiar with the creative teams on the upcoming Q&W or X-O, but they're all white men, no?
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- Dallow Spicer1
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
You were at the panel KJ where HA says diversity was part of her hiring strategy. The only thing we disagree on is the extent to which she uses diversify. On a scale of 1—100, how much do you think diversity hiring is probably? If you say zero then why did she say it KJ, why?kjjohanson wrote:What it seems to boil down to is that if Dallow Spicer1 doesn't like a book, and it was created by straight white males, then it's just not a good book, BUT if the book happens to be created by someone "other" then the reason it's not a good book is because the people hired to create the book were hired solely because they were diversity hires, and not because they were comics professionals that simply did not deliver, in his opinion, quality material this time around.


Also, I’m hopeful they it doesn’t keep happening in 2020, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in 2019!
- kjjohanson
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
That's not what she said. That's just how you want to interpret what I said that she said.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:You were at the panel KJ where HA says diversity was part of her hiring strategy. The only thing we disagree on is the extent to which she uses diversify. On a scale of 1—100, how much do you think diversity hiring is probably? If you say zero then why did she say it KJ, why?kjjohanson wrote:What it seems to boil down to is that if Dallow Spicer1 doesn't like a book, and it was created by straight white males, then it's just not a good book, BUT if the book happens to be created by someone "other" then the reason it's not a good book is because the people hired to create the book were hired solely because they were diversity hires, and not because they were comics professionals that simply did not deliver, in his opinion, quality material this time around.![]()
![]()
Also, I’m hopeful they it doesn’t keep happening in 2020, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in 2019!
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- Dallow Spicer1
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
What did she say then? Why would she mention it all if it wasn’t something actively uses? Please explain how it’s not a factor in the hiring process since she joined Valiant given that she openly talked about it? You’ve dodged that question a couple times I note!kjjohanson wrote:That's not what she said. That's just how you want to interpret what I said that she said.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:You were at the panel KJ where HA says diversity was part of her hiring strategy. The only thing we disagree on is the extent to which she uses diversify. On a scale of 1—100, how much do you think diversity hiring is probably? If you say zero then why did she say it KJ, why?kjjohanson wrote:What it seems to boil down to is that if Dallow Spicer1 doesn't like a book, and it was created by straight white males, then it's just not a good book, BUT if the book happens to be created by someone "other" then the reason it's not a good book is because the people hired to create the book were hired solely because they were diversity hires, and not because they were comics professionals that simply did not deliver, in his opinion, quality material this time around.![]()
![]()
Also, I’m hopeful they it doesn’t keep happening in 2020, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in 2019!

- TheeBaldMoose
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
Not to choose sides, but this has been echoed by others at Valiant. Rose City Comic Con, 2018. Lysa Hawkins stated that 2019 would be the year of the woman for Valiant. She stated that diversity would be the focal point. This was a blatant move. This also, was the first release of any information regarding Fallen World (perspective).Dallow Spicer1 wrote:What did she say then? Why would she mention it all if it wasn’t something actively uses? Please explain how it’s not a factor in the hiring process since she joined Valiant given that she openly talked about it? You’ve dodged that question a couple times I note!kjjohanson wrote:That's not what she said. That's just how you want to interpret what I said that she said.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:You were at the panel KJ where HA says diversity was part of her hiring strategy. The only thing we disagree on is the extent to which she uses diversify. On a scale of 1—100, how much do you think diversity hiring is probably? If you say zero then why did she say it KJ, why?kjjohanson wrote:What it seems to boil down to is that if Dallow Spicer1 doesn't like a book, and it was created by straight white males, then it's just not a good book, BUT if the book happens to be created by someone "other" then the reason it's not a good book is because the people hired to create the book were hired solely because they were diversity hires, and not because they were comics professionals that simply did not deliver, in his opinion, quality material this time around.![]()
![]()
Also, I’m hopeful they it doesn’t keep happening in 2020, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in 2019!
Moose
- kjjohanson
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
It was a panel about diversity. Of course she's going to talk about diversity. She said (paraphrasing) that while the need for diversity is something that she's aware of, it's not the driving factor in hiring a creator. It was discussed that if you have two pitches from creators that are of similar ability, you're likely to get fresher work from a perspective that isn't normally represented in comics.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:What did she say then? Why would she mention it all if it wasn’t something actively uses? Please explain how it’s not a factor in the hiring process since she joined Valiant given that she openly talked about it? You’ve dodged that question a couple times I note!kjjohanson wrote:That's not what she said. That's just how you want to interpret what I said that she said.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:You were at the panel KJ where HA says diversity was part of her hiring strategy. The only thing we disagree on is the extent to which she uses diversify. On a scale of 1—100, how much do you think diversity hiring is probably? If you say zero then why did she say it KJ, why?kjjohanson wrote:What it seems to boil down to is that if Dallow Spicer1 doesn't like a book, and it was created by straight white males, then it's just not a good book, BUT if the book happens to be created by someone "other" then the reason it's not a good book is because the people hired to create the book were hired solely because they were diversity hires, and not because they were comics professionals that simply did not deliver, in his opinion, quality material this time around.![]()
![]()
Also, I’m hopeful they it doesn’t keep happening in 2020, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in 2019!
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- Dallow Spicer1
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
Mate, the clue is in the fact she was on the panel about diversity in the first place!!! That’s how prominent it is in her mind. We’ve had plenty of that ‘fresher work’ at Valiant this year and it turns out it’s very average. She’s a virtue signaller who goes out of her way to promote diversity, Gamma Josh can produce all the stats he likes but the evidence from you, my star witness, and what Moose also said seals the deal in my opinion. Let’s all stop being naive about this, it is what it is, let’s hope it changes going forward.kjjohanson wrote:It was a panel about diversity. Of course she's going to talk about diversity. She said (paraphrasing) that while the need for diversity is something that she's aware of, it's not the driving factor in hiring a creator. It was discussed that if you have two pitches from creators that are of similar ability, you're likely to get fresher work from a perspective that isn't normally represented in comics.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:What did she say then? Why would she mention it all if it wasn’t something actively uses? Please explain how it’s not a factor in the hiring process since she joined Valiant given that she openly talked about it? You’ve dodged that question a couple times I note!kjjohanson wrote:That's not what she said. That's just how you want to interpret what I said that she said.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:You were at the panel KJ where HA says diversity was part of her hiring strategy. The only thing we disagree on is the extent to which she uses diversify. On a scale of 1—100, how much do you think diversity hiring is probably? If you say zero then why did she say it KJ, why?kjjohanson wrote:What it seems to boil down to is that if Dallow Spicer1 doesn't like a book, and it was created by straight white males, then it's just not a good book, BUT if the book happens to be created by someone "other" then the reason it's not a good book is because the people hired to create the book were hired solely because they were diversity hires, and not because they were comics professionals that simply did not deliver, in his opinion, quality material this time around.![]()
![]()
Also, I’m hopeful they it doesn’t keep happening in 2020, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in 2019!
- Shadowman99
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
I find it interesting that after someone dropped a link to a news report on the new XO comic in this thread that the conversation didn't shift drastically to that, but remained an arguament about alleged diversity hiring at Valiant.
Can I propose that we simply create a single thread on the board where everyone can jump into a no-holds-barred, biting-and-gouging-allowed free for all where we can all sit and argue about this issue for as long as we like, and keep the other threads relatively free of said topic? Frankly folks, going over this same discussion repeatedly is just getting boring.
*NOTE: Please pay attention to the fact that my problem with this issue is that it is simply BORING and UNINTERESTING to keep going over the same discussion again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, and that this sentiment doesn't actually reflect my thoughts and opinions on the topic (I only clarify this because last time I called out the fact that this topic reoccurring over and over was boring I was suddenly attacked for 'being lefist' without having actually offered any statement on the topic of discussion...)
XO in march:
"...a fresh start for X-O that draws from all of the best parts of his history without being bogged down by continuity." That doesn't sound encouraging to me. Sounds more like "We want to play with this toy the way we want to play with it, regardless of the way it's supposed to be played with". Well, MAYBE some of the Valiant readership WANT to read comics that respect 'where they've come from'
Editor Heather Antos added, “It was important to Valiant for this new X-O series to really bring a fresh and modern superhero take..."
Looks like the VU has undeniably become another superhero universe. So, who here wants the VU to be another superhero universe? Not me, for one. I guess we'll ultimately see how this approach to the character stable transpires when the comics hit the shelves, but personally it doesn't fill me with hope that I'm going to remain a Valiant reader for long.
But, on the bright side, looks like the colourist is knocking it out the park on this issue.
Can I propose that we simply create a single thread on the board where everyone can jump into a no-holds-barred, biting-and-gouging-allowed free for all where we can all sit and argue about this issue for as long as we like, and keep the other threads relatively free of said topic? Frankly folks, going over this same discussion repeatedly is just getting boring.
*NOTE: Please pay attention to the fact that my problem with this issue is that it is simply BORING and UNINTERESTING to keep going over the same discussion again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, and that this sentiment doesn't actually reflect my thoughts and opinions on the topic (I only clarify this because last time I called out the fact that this topic reoccurring over and over was boring I was suddenly attacked for 'being lefist' without having actually offered any statement on the topic of discussion...)
XO in march:
"...a fresh start for X-O that draws from all of the best parts of his history without being bogged down by continuity." That doesn't sound encouraging to me. Sounds more like "We want to play with this toy the way we want to play with it, regardless of the way it's supposed to be played with". Well, MAYBE some of the Valiant readership WANT to read comics that respect 'where they've come from'

Editor Heather Antos added, “It was important to Valiant for this new X-O series to really bring a fresh and modern superhero take..."
Looks like the VU has undeniably become another superhero universe. So, who here wants the VU to be another superhero universe? Not me, for one. I guess we'll ultimately see how this approach to the character stable transpires when the comics hit the shelves, but personally it doesn't fill me with hope that I'm going to remain a Valiant reader for long.
But, on the bright side, looks like the colourist is knocking it out the park on this issue.
Kurt Busiek wrote:Bull$#!t
- kjjohanson
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
To be fair, the previous X-O series was largely a departure from where the series before left off. Yes, we eventually got the gap filled in, but it was a decent entry point for new readers, which you're always going to want for a new series, especially coming from a small company.Shadowman99 wrote:I find it interesting that after someone dropped a link to a news report on the new XO comic in this thread that the conversation didn't shift drastically to that, but remained an arguament about alleged diversity hiring at Valiant.
Can I propose that we simply create a single thread on the board where everyone can jump into a no-holds-barred, biting-and-gouging-allowed free for all where we can all sit and argue about this issue for as long as we like, and keep the other threads relatively free of said topic? Frankly folks, going over this same discussion repeatedly is just getting boring.
*NOTE: Please pay attention to the fact that my problem with this issue is that it is simply BORING and UNINTERESTING to keep going over the same discussion again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again, and that this sentiment doesn't actually reflect my thoughts and opinions on the topic (I only clarify this because last time I called out the fact that this topic reoccurring over and over was boring I was suddenly attacked for 'being lefist' without having actually offered any statement on the topic of discussion...)
XO in march:
"...a fresh start for X-O that draws from all of the best parts of his history without being bogged down by continuity." That doesn't sound encouraging to me. Sounds more like "We want to play with this toy the way we want to play with it, regardless of the way it's supposed to be played with". Well, MAYBE some of the Valiant readership WANT to read comics that respect 'where they've come from'![]()
Editor Heather Antos added, “It was important to Valiant for this new X-O series to really bring a fresh and modern superhero take..."
Looks like the VU has undeniably become another superhero universe. So, who here wants the VU to be another superhero universe? Not me, for one. I guess we'll ultimately see how this approach to the character stable transpires when the comics hit the shelves, but personally it doesn't fill me with hope that I'm going to remain a Valiant reader for long.
But, on the bright side, looks like the colourist is knocking it out the park on this issue.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- kjjohanson
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
This doesn't change the fact that you claimed someone to have "admitted" something, when that was a total fabrication. Stop making *SQUEE* up, keep to actual facts rather than your own invented facts, and people might consider your opinions worth taking seriously.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:Mate, the clue is in the fact she was on the panel about diversity in the first place!!! That’s how prominent it is in her mind. We’ve had plenty of that ‘fresher work’ at Valiant this year and it turns out it’s very average. She’s a virtue signaller who goes out of her way to promote diversity, Gamma Josh can produce all the stats he likes but the evidence from you, my star witness, and what Moose also said seals the deal in my opinion. Let’s all stop being naive about this, it is what it is, let’s hope it changes going forward.kjjohanson wrote:It was a panel about diversity. Of course she's going to talk about diversity. She said (paraphrasing) that while the need for diversity is something that she's aware of, it's not the driving factor in hiring a creator. It was discussed that if you have two pitches from creators that are of similar ability, you're likely to get fresher work from a perspective that isn't normally represented in comics.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:What did she say then? Why would she mention it all if it wasn’t something actively uses? Please explain how it’s not a factor in the hiring process since she joined Valiant given that she openly talked about it? You’ve dodged that question a couple times I note!kjjohanson wrote:That's not what she said. That's just how you want to interpret what I said that she said.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:You were at the panel KJ where HA says diversity was part of her hiring strategy. The only thing we disagree on is the extent to which she uses diversify. On a scale of 1—100, how much do you think diversity hiring is probably? If you say zero then why did she say it KJ, why?kjjohanson wrote:What it seems to boil down to is that if Dallow Spicer1 doesn't like a book, and it was created by straight white males, then it's just not a good book, BUT if the book happens to be created by someone "other" then the reason it's not a good book is because the people hired to create the book were hired solely because they were diversity hires, and not because they were comics professionals that simply did not deliver, in his opinion, quality material this time around.![]()
![]()
Also, I’m hopeful they it doesn’t keep happening in 2020, it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in 2019!
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- GammaJosh
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Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
There are so many holes in your arguments, Dallow.
- Roku & Punk Mambo are two of the most popular and best designed new characters created by VEI, and both series expand the world of tentpole IPs (Ninjak & Shadowman).
- Doctor Mirage is a classic VH1 IP that had two series greenlit under Dinesh.
- Livewire was/is a fan favorite that was as ripe for a solo series as any other character that hadn't had one yet.
Now that I've shut down your arguments about non-white people and LGBTQ people, you seem to be turning your ire towards female lead-books. Let me ask you two questions:
- Why wouldn't Valiant follow up with more female-lead books after the tremendous success of Faith?
- Why shouldn't comics follow the video game industry which has seen massive growth by courting female customers? The only people complaining about that are basement dwelling virgins.
- Why do you have a problem with female-lead comics?
- What is your problem with women? Take a look at the numbers below. Is this really such a huge problem for you?
Here's a breakdown of all issues published by Valiant in 2019:
Bloodshot Rising Spirit: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Livewire: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
X-O Manowar: 23, 24, 25, 26
Faith: Dreamside: 4
Shadowman: 11
Incursion: 1, 2, 3, 4
Forgotten Queen: 1, 2, 3, 4
LADOTH: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Punk Mambo: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Fallen World: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Psi-Lords: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Killers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Doctor Mirage: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Bloodshot: 1, 2, 3, 4
Roku: 1, 2, 3
Rai: 1, 2
Vistitor: 1
74 Total Issues:
Male lead: 33 (44.6%)
Female lead: 29 (39.2%)
Team book: 12 (16.2%)
17 Total Titles:
Male lead: 9 (52.9%)
Female lead: 6 (35.2%)
Team book: 2 (11.8%)
Last time I checked, women were half of the population. Are you really going to *SQUEE* about women leading 40% of issues this year and 35% of titles? Is that too much for you? Are you suffering from a dearth of male-lead comic books in the world? Give me a break.
It seems like there is no reasoning with you beyond your underlying gut feeling: not all Valiant comics are being tailored exactly to your liking, and you're mad at "the libs" about it. A more positive attitude would be acknowledging that you have decades and decades of comics that were tailored for you, you're still getting some new comics that are tailored for you, and it's ok that other people get to have nice things and comics tailored for them too. That really shouldn't be too much of a burden.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
A panel is a marketing opportunity. Being on the panel indicates primarily that someone is taking advantage of said marketing opportunity. You are clearly suggesting that even participating in a panel about diversity is a bad thing, which is one of the more telling things you have posted. Go ahead and try to explain to our fellow non-white, female or LGBTQ Valiant fans why diversity panels are a bad thing, and see how you come out of that argument. I'll give you a hint: looking like an *SQUEE*.Mate, the clue is in the fact she was on the panel about diversity in the first place!!!
Including diversity as a factor does not mean that diversity was the deciding factor in even one single hire. Now do you expect an editor to go out and publicly say that she won't consider diversity when hiring a writer to work on a black female character? Because it seems painfully obvious that having a black female writer on Livewire could add some authenticity to the character and have a net benefit on the finished product, not to mention any marketing value inherent in having a product with a black character and black creator.You were at the panel KJ where HA says diversity was part of her hiring strategy.
This is b.s. on multiple levels:add to that inexplicably using female B and C level characters further evidences the diversity agenda. Forgotten Queen, Roku (lowest ever number 1 sales), Livewire (a 12 issue series, was anyone asking for that?), Punk Mambo, Dr Mirage...can you see a pattern?
- Roku & Punk Mambo are two of the most popular and best designed new characters created by VEI, and both series expand the world of tentpole IPs (Ninjak & Shadowman).
- Doctor Mirage is a classic VH1 IP that had two series greenlit under Dinesh.
- Livewire was/is a fan favorite that was as ripe for a solo series as any other character that hadn't had one yet.
Now that I've shut down your arguments about non-white people and LGBTQ people, you seem to be turning your ire towards female lead-books. Let me ask you two questions:
- Why wouldn't Valiant follow up with more female-lead books after the tremendous success of Faith?
- Why shouldn't comics follow the video game industry which has seen massive growth by courting female customers? The only people complaining about that are basement dwelling virgins.
- Why do you have a problem with female-lead comics?
- What is your problem with women? Take a look at the numbers below. Is this really such a huge problem for you?
Here's a breakdown of all issues published by Valiant in 2019:
Bloodshot Rising Spirit: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Livewire: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
X-O Manowar: 23, 24, 25, 26
Faith: Dreamside: 4
Shadowman: 11
Incursion: 1, 2, 3, 4
Forgotten Queen: 1, 2, 3, 4
LADOTH: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Punk Mambo: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Fallen World: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Psi-Lords: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Killers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Doctor Mirage: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Bloodshot: 1, 2, 3, 4
Roku: 1, 2, 3
Rai: 1, 2
Vistitor: 1
74 Total Issues:
Male lead: 33 (44.6%)
Female lead: 29 (39.2%)
Team book: 12 (16.2%)
17 Total Titles:
Male lead: 9 (52.9%)
Female lead: 6 (35.2%)
Team book: 2 (11.8%)
Last time I checked, women were half of the population. Are you really going to *SQUEE* about women leading 40% of issues this year and 35% of titles? Is that too much for you? Are you suffering from a dearth of male-lead comic books in the world? Give me a break.
It seems like there is no reasoning with you beyond your underlying gut feeling: not all Valiant comics are being tailored exactly to your liking, and you're mad at "the libs" about it. A more positive attitude would be acknowledging that you have decades and decades of comics that were tailored for you, you're still getting some new comics that are tailored for you, and it's ok that other people get to have nice things and comics tailored for them too. That really shouldn't be too much of a burden.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
- Dallow Spicer1
- Clinkin' bottles with Aram
- Posts: 2617
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19 am
- Valiant fan since: Mid 90's
- Favorite character: X-O
- Favorite title: X-O
- Favorite writer: V-Ditti & Dysart
- Favorite artist: Larosa
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
I think you mean ‘happy Christmas’ #saynotowaronchristmasGammaJosh wrote:
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

- GammaJosh
- Cruisin' in Darpan's Winnebago
- Posts: 699
- Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:26 pm
- Valiant fan since: 1992
- Favorite character: Shadowman
- Favorite title: Harbinger
- Favorite writer: Fred Van Lente
- Favorite artist: Barry Kitson
- Location: Washington, DC
Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
Actually no, considering hanukkah is coming up before Christmas. Nice of you to exclude our Jewish friends though. It's not like they created the comic book medium as we know it or anything.
- Dallow Spicer1
- Clinkin' bottles with Aram
- Posts: 2617
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19 am
- Valiant fan since: Mid 90's
- Favorite character: X-O
- Favorite title: X-O
- Favorite writer: V-Ditti & Dysart
- Favorite artist: Larosa
- Location: United Kingdom
Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
VERY happy ChristmasGammaJosh wrote:Actually no, considering hanukkah is coming up before Christmas. Nice of you to exclude our Jewish friends though. It's not like they created the comic book medium as we know it or anything.


- TheFerg714
- H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:25 pm
- Valiant fan since: July 2014
- Favorite character: Archer
- Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
- Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
- Favorite artist: Juan Jose Ryp
Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
EDIT: Sorry, the quoting format wasn't working.
- TheFerg714
- H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:25 pm
- Valiant fan since: July 2014
- Favorite character: Archer
- Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
- Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
- Favorite artist: Juan Jose Ryp
Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
EDIT: It's still not working. fml. 

Punk Mambo and Doc Mirage may be B-listers, but Roku is a C-lister for sure, and Warmonger is an F-lister, and it's really strange that these characters (including Killers) are getting the spotlight before characters that actually deserve it. We went more than a full year without an A-list character in a high-quality ongoing. That's silly, and honestly just a strange decision. 2019 has turned Valiant into that one publisher that makes kitsch mini-series with a lot of powerful women.GammaJosh wrote: This is b.s. on multiple levels:
- Roku & Punk Mambo are two of the most popular and best designed new characters created by VEI, and both series expand the world of tentpole IPs (Ninjak & Shadowman).
- Doctor Mirage is a classic VH1 IP that had two series greenlit under Dinesh.
Women are not half the comic reading population, not even close. I mean just look at any place on the internet that talks about Valiant. There's usually like two women total.- Livewire was/is a fan favorite that was as ripe for a solo series as any other character that hadn't had one yet.Agreed. Too bad Ayala and co. *SQUEE* it up.
- Why wouldn't Valiant follow up with more female-lead books after the tremendous success of Faith?"Tremendous success?" That's hilarious. It came in with a bang, for sure, but ever since about issue #9, people have simply stopped giving a *SQUEE*. Maybe Faith is doing well with the Barnes & Noble crowd, but if so, why do they keep publishing Faith in single issue form at all? The lesson they should have learned from the "tremendous success" of Faith wasn't that we needed more female-led books. No one was asking for that and yet Valiant felt the need to give it to us. Again, that's not necessarily a bad idea, but just look how it panned out.
Wrong. The vast majority of popular video games are still consumed by men, and probably always will be. just like comics.- Why shouldn't comics follow the video game industry which has seen massive growth by courting female customers? The only people complaining about that are basement dwelling virgins.
74 Total Issues:
Male lead: 33 (44.6%)
Female lead: 29 (39.2%)
Team book: 12 (16.2%)
17 Total Titles:
Male lead: 9 (52.9%)
Female lead: 6 (35.2%)
Team book: 2 (11.8%)
This is all hilariously misleading. The Visitor's main character seems to be a woman. Killers might be a team book, but we all know the main character was Blindside. A woman was the "leader" of the Psi-Lords. If you really want to get into the nitty gritty of it, Tama, Alyssa, and even Lula Lee were major characters in their own right, even if their name wasn't on the title. Here's the actual numbers:
Male led: 27
Male/Female led: 5
Team led: 13
Female led: 29
My only point is that there did seem to be a sudden shift in focus when it came to female leads. I don't think that's a bad thing, but it definitely shows that Valiant seems to care more about diversity than putting a great product on the shelf.
Last time I checked, women were half the population.
Last edited by TheFerg714 on Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- kjjohanson
- Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
- Posts: 5005
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:52 pm
- Valiant fan since: Magnus #1
- Favorite character: Anon-Lurker
- Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
- Favorite writer: Fred Van Lente
- Location: Astoria, NY
- Contact:
Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
Let's note as well that the announcement of Antos's hiring came two months after the announcement of Ayala as the writer for Livewire, and Antos is credited with being the editor as of issue #2. She likely had nothing to do with that hiring decision. It looks like the first two books for which we're aware of that she's involved with any hiring decisions are the upcoming X-O and Q&W.GammaJosh wrote:Including diversity as a factor does not mean that diversity was the deciding factor in even one single hire. Now do you expect an editor to go out and publicly say that she won't consider diversity when hiring a writer to work on a black female character? Because it seems painfully obvious that having a black female writer on Livewire could add some authenticity to the character and have a net benefit on the finished product, not to mention any marketing value inherent in having a product with a black character and black creator.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- kjjohanson
- Now I bet you're all going to want me to drag it out and show you.
- Posts: 5005
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:52 pm
- Valiant fan since: Magnus #1
- Favorite character: Anon-Lurker
- Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
- Favorite writer: Fred Van Lente
- Location: Astoria, NY
- Contact:
Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
This wasn't a Valiant-specific panel. Most of the panelists, to my knowledge, haven't done any work for Valiant.TheFerg714 wrote:EDIT: It's still not working. fml.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to have a diversity panel, but it does paint a pretty clear picture of where Valiant's head is at. When Dinesh was charge, we saw plenty of diversity, but they didn't need a whole panel to showcase it.GammaJosh wrote:A panel is a marketing opportunity. Being on the panel indicates primarily that someone is taking advantage of said marketing opportunity. You are clearly suggesting that even participating in a panel about diversity is a bad thing, which is one of the more telling things you have posted. Go ahead and try to explain to our fellow non-white, female or LGBTQ Valiant fans why diversity panels are a bad thing, and see how you come out of that argument. I'll give you a hint: looking like an *SQUEE*.
If you're not a *SQUEE*, you're okay with me.
- TheFerg714
- H.A.R.D.E.R. Corps, with Extra Resistance
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:25 pm
- Valiant fan since: July 2014
- Favorite character: Archer
- Favorite title: Archer & Armstrong
- Favorite writer: Joshua Dysart
- Favorite artist: Juan Jose Ryp
Re: VALIANT NOVEMBER 2019 COMIC BOOK SALES!
Oh, my bad.kjjohanson wrote:This wasn't a Valiant-specific panel. Most of the panelists, to my knowledge, haven't done any work for Valiant.TheFerg714 wrote:EDIT: It's still not working. fml.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to have a diversity panel, but it does paint a pretty clear picture of where Valiant's head is at. When Dinesh was charge, we saw plenty of diversity, but they didn't need a whole panel to showcase it.GammaJosh wrote:A panel is a marketing opportunity. Being on the panel indicates primarily that someone is taking advantage of said marketing opportunity. You are clearly suggesting that even participating in a panel about diversity is a bad thing, which is one of the more telling things you have posted. Go ahead and try to explain to our fellow non-white, female or LGBTQ Valiant fans why diversity panels are a bad thing, and see how you come out of that argument. I'll give you a hint: looking like an *SQUEE*.
