VALIANT SOLD

[jeremycoe]

Now that valiant has built all thease loose ends the new guys can start over with a fresh reboot and never re visit them.
This *SQUEE* me off so much.
So can we get closure. Is momo dead?

Yes

[Joshua]

It's hard to process. On one hand, it's Dinesh not being there. I mean, who knows what he'll even get to do as a consultant so to me, that's not even a thing. But, he's the voice of the company and he's a fan, too, so he's so easy to relate to and talk with. How bizarre is it going to be not seeing him at a convention, helping the booth sell books. I never considered us friends but he was always a talkative guy who had time for fans. I got to interview him last year and he was so nice and cool about everything.

However, I like the books, I like the characters and the last thing I read was that they weren't looking to change the publishing side. As long as there are books, I'm buying books. I've been buying what I could afford to since Bloodshot 1 happened those many years ago.

[nycjadie]

There seems to have been a lot more turmoil than we all had an inkling. Happens a lot in the startups I've been involved with. I would assume that the Bat in the Sun delays were based on some of this turmoil. Cuneo out also suggests that there was a tipping of scales with either creative control or desire to cash out. Money and/or control so often shift the balance.

[mkb28]

At first, I thought someone had posted on an old 1990’s thread, but now I see the date is all today’s date. Stunned!

[BugsySig]

Doesn’t seem like there was much of a choice. DMG invested and had a clause which, if executed, allowed them to purchase the remaining ownership unless VEI could come up with a matching amount from investors. DMG executes the clause and VEI couldn’t find any new investors. Leaking info about Jared Leto and Vin Diesel May have been last ditch efforts to raise enough interest to entice investors.

[SuperMage]

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/01/29 ... y-valiant/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently the sale was triggered when VEI couldn’t find investors to match an amount in DMGs original investment deal. Ultimately the inability to get any film or TV off the ground may have doomed Dino.

This is probably the likeliest scenerio. I'm sure DMG was getting very impatient for some ROI.

Basically Valiant sold a share to DMG so they could try to compete in the film industry. The problem is they took too long to get any of the projects off the ground. DMG got impatient, and took advantage of a contractual clause to force Dinesh out of his position so they could turn Valiant into an IP farm. Valiant owned DMG money they didn't have. Dinesh ended up losing the company over it. I'm taking a wild guess that the fact that Valiant market share has not shown much growth is part of the reason someone chose to sell their share to DMG. All the DOOM threads turned out to be right. That's ultimately the big problem with the print comic book industry. Everything is just an IP farm. Books are published in hopes that they'll get a film or t.v. deal.

Just look at all these monopolies. Disney/Fox, Valiant/DMG, AT&T/Warner. Seems like no one can survive these days without becoming a subsidiary. I just hope they maintain the current VEI continuity. A reboot would only destroy reader confidence, and Valiant isn't a big enough name that they could afford a blow like that.

[BugsySig]

No one sold shares. This isn’t exactly like like the Acclaim deal. It was an automatic transfer of shares for a predetermined amount based on a contractual clause. So no one was “cashing out” in this deal. Those people who were bought out will make money, but it doesn’t sound like it was their choice to sell. But the lack of progress on the film from is likely why VEI didn’t have the options to avoid the buy out.

Now that new ownership moves in and thy want their own people in charge. Out with old, in with the new.

These types of agreements are actually quite common. Some individual or company invests in a start up and expects a return on their investment. If they don’t get it after a period of time, their return is the ability to buy you out. If they do, then they are going to do everything they can to turn a profit, even if it means running the company into the ground. I hate to yell, “DOOM!”, but I’d expect this to be the beginning of the end, at least for VALIANT as we know it.

[lorddunlow]

No one sold shares. It was an automatic transfer of shares for a predetermined amount based on a contractual clause. So no one was “cashing out” in this deal. Those people who were bought out will make money, but it doesn’t sound like it was their choice to sell. But the lack of progress on the film from is likely why VEI didn’t have the options to avoid the buy out.

Now that new ownership moves in and thy want their own people in charge. Out with old, in with the new.

Just like the NBA ownership deals... Headaches.

[BugsySig]

No one sold shares. It was an automatic transfer of shares for a predetermined amount based on a contractual clause. So no one was “cashing out” in this deal. Those people who were bought out will make money, but it doesn’t sound like it was their choice to sell. But the lack of progress on the film from is likely why VEI didn’t have the options to avoid the buy out.

Now that new ownership moves in and thy want their own people in charge. Out with old, in with the new.

Just like the NBA ownership deals... Headaches.

Exactly. Same thing happened recently with a NBA franchise (or maybe it was NFL?) but I can’t remember which one.

[nonplayer]

Well Least Dinesh got to traval and live the high life. Good for him he deserves it.
Another good thing about a definitive end and a new beginning I can collect all the golds.
Think dead hand on the back side of the moon will be re visited?
How about female xo manowar Arics daughter?
Gin-gr robots war.
The continuation of the sophran in wrath of the external worrior

[valiantdude]

So after that bleeding cool article, let me get this straight, so the Valiant characters are now owned by the Chinese government?, haha!, I never could have predicted this would happen in a million years, in the year 2002, when this board started, if you would have told me that by 2018 the valiant characters will be owned by the Chinese government I don't even know what I would have said, but here we are

[onearmedwampa3000]

I spoke with Dinesh at a con a couple years ago right after they got the DMG money. He was so excited, but all I could think was that it was too soon in the publishing to be thinking of movies. I told him I would love to see the comics be a sure thing and stand on their own. He assured me, as he does at Cons with all the fans, that the comics came first. Then he shared a few details of the beginning stages of the movies and where they were at with them. He said they were talking to the Russo bros for XO, and that they were talking with Marky Mark Walberg for Bloodshot. When he told me that I cringed. Marky Mark is way wrong for Bloodshot. It reinforced my fear of Valiant rushing too fast to catch a piece of the comic movie wave. And here we are. Sounds like they took money from the wrong guys like some mobster movie. His Twitter quote kind of makes me feel like that's exactly what happened. After all this effort over the years to convince people that this exact scenario wouldn't happen, and that this new Valiant was being handled the right way, it ended up the wrong way. It's way too ironic. I'm really frustrated and sad about this.

[murrayroach]

I haven't read a thing that leads me to believe this was anything more than a standard VC deal. You keep on a couple of senior staff to manage through transition (Gavin, Dinesh) and the real $ man (Peter) takes his cheque and happily leaves, ready to start the next venture - that's how VC works.

You buy (or, in some cases, start) a business, set a time period to realize maximum ROI. As soon as you've got the business to a state where you can get that maximum ROI when an offer comes, you take it. As per Greg's post, the Cuneo's have had money tied up in Valiant since ~2012 so this sale, while a little outside the "general" 5 year rule for VC turnaround isn't a huge surprise as a business decision.

I'm disappointed Dinesh will be leaving. I've never met the man, but I've sure enjoyed the revamped line for the last 5+ years and it's quite clear he was the driving force. I've never heard of Ben Hung but his resume has some good stuff on it (https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-hung-29b56922/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) so we'll see what happens.

As fans, that's all we can do.

[greg]

So after that bleeding cool article, let me get this straight, so the Valiant characters are now owned by the Chinese government?, haha!, I never could have predicted this would happen in a million years, in the year 2002, when this board started, if you would have told me that by 2018 the valiant characters will be owned by the Chinese government I don't even know what I would have said, but here we are

DMG (based out of Beverly Hills, California) has a relationship with the Chinese government for the distribution of movies in China (such as Iron Man 3), which is evidently more advantageous for China than the deals that Disney/Marvel and WB/DC have been offering to China. I'd bet both Marvel and DC (parent companies) are as happy to skip China as they are to promote movies there if the Chinese government has too much power over profits, content, distribution, etc. As a result, the Chinese movie market (which could easily rival the US movie market for a movie, see: Mojin: The Lost Legend, which made $1million U.S. and $255million in China) probably loves American superheroes, may not know anything about them before they arrive in Chinese theaters, so there's as much chance that relatively-unknown characters like Bloodshot or Ninjak could be as successful in China as relatively-unknown characters from Guardians of the Galaxy have been here.

That's the theory. In reality, DMG is placing their bets... so it's up to them to make it good enough for their target audience, but we definitely shouldn't be surprised if their target audience is Chinese.

[agent_graves]

Valiant was the last publisher with heart.

+1

I do not blame Dino and Co. for selling. As fans who went on a limb to purchase the IPs and re-start Valiant they took a huge gamble. Cashing out and turning a profit is kudos to them. I just wish they could've found a way to still be on board after the merge/purchase.

+1

[greg]

Valiant was the last publisher with heart.

+1

I do not blame Dino and Co. for selling. As fans who went on a limb to purchase the IPs and re-start Valiant they took a huge gamble. Cashing out and turning a profit is kudos to them. I just wish they could've found a way to still be on board after the merge/purchase.

+1

"Cashing out" implies planning. It's safe to say that Dinesh would have let us know if he planned to leave. Since he didn't, we have to assume it wasn't planned.

[lorddunlow]

Valiant was the last publisher with heart.

"Cashing out" implies planning. It's safe to say that Dinesh would have let us know if he planned to leave. Since he didn't, we have to assume it wasn't planned.

Agreed. This clearly seems like he was bought out with no say in the matter. Like Bugsy said, it was a clause in the initial DMG deal. Dino and company took a gamble to put a little more capital into VEI, but the "vulture capitalists" won.

[valiantdude]

I don't mean to rub salt on a wound here, but I've been saying this was going to happen for a while. When XO ended its run at 50 and they lost their initial momentum that they had which was pretty amazing in the year 2012, 2013, I knew s*** was sinking.. they kept trying and trying and missed the mark on huge characters like Eternal Warrior and Shadow Man, they definitely had good moments of quality Comics, but in general it didn't have that extra bit of energy that it needed to become the third biggest publisher again, it could have easily been really successful, if they had embraced the original creators, in addition to the new creators, they would have done better they could have meshed the veteran knowledge with the new school knowledge, kind of like 80s Marvel, or 90s valiant.... a sad day, I know for all here and the beginning of a new chapter of the Valiant story, for better or worse so wild...

[SuperMage]

No one sold shares. This isn’t exactly like like the Acclaim deal. It was an automatic transfer of shares for a predetermined amount based on a contractual clause. So no one was “cashing out” in this deal. Those people who were bought out will make money, but it doesn’t sound like it was their choice to sell. But the lack of progress on the film from is likely why VEI didn’t have the options to avoid the buy out.

Now that new ownership moves in and thy want their own people in charge. Out with old, in with the new.

These types of agreements are actually quite common. Some individual or company invests in a start up and expects a return on their investment. If they don’t get it after a period of time, their return is the ability to buy you out. If they do, then they are going to do everything they can to turn a profit, even if it means running the company into the ground. I hate to yell, “DOOM!”, but I’d expect this to be the beginning of the end, at least for VALIANT as we know it.

That makes it much clearer. I've seen similar things with video game companies. Company is purchased by a publisher. The founding members either take high positions in the parent company or quit to start over. Loyal employees always end up following. The bubble begins to burst, and the acquired company is consolidated after the first big failure. In about five years the purchased company is either an unrecognizable shadow of its former self or shut down.

The fact that Fox wants to sell to Disney is all the indication we need to know that the superhero movie bubble has reached max capacity. Its too risky even if you do have a few successful films. Disney, and Warner are the only ones capable of affording to play the cinematic movie game. DMG shows up, and announces their sole intention with Valiant is to play the cinematic movie game. Its not possible. This time next year, Disney will have 39% of the theatrical market share. DMG isn't a film studio, they're an investment group. As soon as they release a Valiant film that flops, they'll started discussing selling the rights to the characters to Universal, Warner, or Disney.

Valiant was the last publisher with heart.

"Cashing out" implies planning. It's safe to say that Dinesh would have let us know if he planned to leave. Since he didn't, we have to assume it wasn't planned.

Agreed. This clearly seems like he was bought out with no say in the matter. Like Bugsy said, it was a clause in the initial DMG deal. Dino and company took a gamble to put a little more capital into VEI, but the "vulture capitalists" won.

Their victory will probably be short lived. 10 years from now we'll be reading the article of how DMG went bankrupts, and sold their rights to Disney.

[valiantdude]

And then the Marvel Universe revamps/integrates the Valiant Universe?, oh my God wouldn't that be the craziest twist of fate of all

[grendeljd]

Valiant was the last publisher with heart.

"Cashing out" implies planning. It's safe to say that Dinesh would have let us know if he planned to leave. Since he didn't, we have to assume it wasn't planned.

Agreed. This clearly seems like he was bought out with no say in the matter. Like Bugsy said, it was a clause in the initial DMG deal. Dino and company took a gamble to put a little more capital into VEI, but the "vulture capitalists" won.

Yeah, it essentially sounds like a form of hostile takeover through triggering a contractual loophole (I'm calling it that even if the clause was a deliberately stipulated term written in the original DMG deal).

[valiantdude]

Valiant was the last publisher with heart.

"Cashing out" implies planning. It's safe to say that Dinesh would have let us know if he planned to leave. Since he didn't, we have to assume it wasn't planned.

Agreed. This clearly seems like he was bought out with no say in the matter. Like Bugsy said, it was a clause in the initial DMG deal. Dino and company took a gamble to put a little more capital into VEI, but the "vulture capitalists" won.

Yeah, it essentially sounds like a form of hostile takeover through triggering a contractual loophole (I'm calling it that even if the clause was a deliberately stipulated term written in the original DMG deal).

Yeah it may have been just the way they planned it or not, a hundred and ten million is a lot of money, to trust with relatively rookies. So it may have been deliberate or not, but I would have done it if I was putting in a hundred and ten million

[SuperMage]

I don't mean to rub salt on a wound here, but I've been saying this was going to happen for a while. When XO ended its run at 50 and they lost their initial momentum that they had which was pretty amazing in the year 2012, 2013, I knew s*** was sinking.. they kept trying and trying and missed the mark on huge characters like Eternal Warrior and Shadow Man, they definitely had good moments of quality Comics, but in general it didn't have that extra bit of energy that it needed to become the third biggest publisher again, it could have easily been really successful, if they had embraced the original creators, in addition to the new creators, they would have done better they could have meshed the veteran knowledge with the new school knowledge, kind of like 80s Marvel, or 90s valiant.... a sad day, I know for all here and the beginning of a new chapter of the Valiant story, for better or worse so wild...

Let's be realistic, Dinesh did the best he could do considering the industry conditions. The comic market is over saturated with DC/Marvel, and there is literally no way to compete with them as long as they have a monopoly on the industry. Valiant was not a household name, and there was no way they could pull old readers away from DC/Marvel. They tried, and tried, and tried, but they could never convince retailers to take them seriously. The print comic industry is just stagnant. There are 22 different comic book companies competing for 23% of the market share. Valiant is just another voice in the crowd. It was never Valiant's fault, it's the industry itself.

And then the Marvel Universe revamps/integrates the Valiant Universe?, oh my God wouldn't that be the craziest twist of fate of all

This is ultimately the end game now, sadly. If Fox can't survive in the current market, there's no way in hell DMG will make it. Sooner or later one of the Big Six film studios will end up buying DMG. Probably Universal. Hopefully not Disney. They'll just buy the rights to the characters to limit the competition in the film market. Valiant characters will end up collecting dust on a shelf.

[grendeljd]

Also seems a little odd that this is the only reaction from Valiant on social media so far:


While I completely understand that they are a business and in their own best interest they have to stay positive & upbeat as much as possible, it's odd to me that they don't even comment on Dinesh or the Cuneo's leaving.

[betterthanezra]

Or why the official Valiant Twitter page liked his Jim Shooter quote

-Brian