Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[jaden_sai]

So, straight from the man himself the #1 will be a 1:25 for Book of Death #1 orders and the others will be 1:10 for the subsequent Book of Death issues.

http://twitter.com/dinesh_s/status/590325578886029313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At best we're looking at $55 for 4 issues. That's $13.75 an issue.

Ugh.

At Best?
Really...
using this logic Bloodshot Reborn #1 1:100 at best would have cost me $100, I got it for $15.

I think we'll be able to find it for less than $55

[Elveen]

To Elveen: The 'heat' generated by a hard-to-find issue does not benefit either VEI or the loyal reader. It may benefit a retailer here and there, but VEI can only grow if it puts out stories that people want to read, not stash in plastic for a possible high price one day. I suspect VEI realises this -- because why else go to second or third printings on certain titles? If 'heat' is necessary, then why reprint? If you don't reprint, the relative scarcity of the First Printing will generate heat and drive up the back issue prices.

I disagree. VEI needs some heat as a company on a back issue. This is not only good for VEI but GREAT. It will attract other collectors to the company in general. The stories have been overall great, some good, some meh, and a majority amazing...... but.....

Overall their books have very little value. VEI needs to change this. I'm not saying that this plan WILL do that. But for VEI as a company, they need (as I called it) Heat. They need people wanting a book that is: hard to find, expensive to get, desirable by collectors.

It is NOT the most important thing, but it is something that they are missing. They are probably the only "major" publisher that has not had that the last 3 years.

Again, NOT saying that the plan is GOOD or that I support it, but if it DOES get them some "heat", then good.

VEI needs a book to be desired by more than the loyal readers they have. They need to grow. They can't be an "indy band" forever.

[betterthanezra]

To Elveen: The 'heat' generated by a hard-to-find issue does not benefit either VEI or the loyal reader. It may benefit a retailer here and there, but VEI can only grow if it puts out stories that people want to read, not stash in plastic for a possible high price one day. I suspect VEI realises this -- because why else go to second or third printings on certain titles? If 'heat' is necessary, then why reprint? If you don't reprint, the relative scarcity of the First Printing will generate heat and drive up the back issue prices.

I disagree. VEI needs some heat as a company on a back issue. This is not only good for VEI but GREAT. It will attract other collectors to the company in general. The stories have been overall great, some good, some meh, and a majority amazing...... but.....

Overall their books have very little value. VEI needs to change this. I'm not saying that this plan WILL do that. But for VEI as a company, they need (as I called it) Heat. They need people wanting a book that is: hard to find, expensive to get, desirable by collectors.

It is NOT the most important thing, but it is something that they are missing. They are probably the only "major" publisher that has not had that the last 3 years.

Again, NOT saying that the plan is GOOD or that I support it, but if it DOES get them some "heat", then good.

VEI needs a book to be desired by more than the loyal readers they have. They need to grow. They can't be an "indy band" forever.

+1 been to enough shows to know that VEI has NO ONE asking for there issues NO ONE beyond the loyal readers who are now buying them. They have to do something... is this it? probably not but this really does need to change.

-Brian

[agent_graves]

So, straight from the man himself the #1 will be a 1:25 for Book of Death #1 orders and the others will be 1:10 for the subsequent Book of Death issues.

http://twitter.com/dinesh_s/status/590325578886029313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, there you have it, not so bad after all. The 1:25 might be tough for some of the smaller retailers, but the 1:10 should be attainable, if not, their's always Midtown or Mycomicshop.

[lorddunlow]

So, straight from the man himself the #1 will be a 1:25 for Book of Death #1 orders and the others will be 1:10 for the subsequent Book of Death issues.

http://twitter.com/dinesh_s/status/590325578886029313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At best we're looking at $55 for 4 issues. That's $13.75 an issue.

Ugh.

At Best?
Really...
using this logic Bloodshot Reborn #1 1:100 at best would have cost me $100, I got it for $15.

Okay, fine. I doubt they'll be available for cover price (otherwise why would they be doing this in the first place).

So let's say I can get every issue for about $7 on average for each one.

So if VEI said, "hey, we have a new series that complements the Book of Death. It has a cover price of $7" (do we even know if it is regular page count or not?) then everyone would be okay with that? I wouldn't, and doubt no knew else would either.

[Elveen]

Elveen says Valiant need's a hot book people can get behind ( How many artificial 'Hot Books' stay hot?) . Explain to me how that happens when they are literally going to be putting fans that want the book at a disadvantage of getting it , and putting stores at a disadvantage by over-ordering Books of Death.

All I said is that VEI needs a book to be desired on the back issue market. I said nothing about artificial. If people want a book and it is not easy to obtain, I don't see that as artificial.

I can see the fans not getting it point of view.... but sometimes you have to see the larger bigger picture. I'll use the band analogy again (from my above post), when a band signs a record deal or gets a new agent and more opportunites are now available, the original fans often say.... "ah they sold out". Its not the same when we use to see them in small clubs and bars.... or, now that they are playing at bigger venues the ticket prices have gone up, or they are now touring and they leave their city for months on end and I have to drive far to see them.

Yes, not as "good" for the original fans. The experience of enjoying the band is different now. Maybe that might happen with VEI, maybe not.

Again, I am not saying that I am for this plan or not for it. I AM for some "heat" getting to a VEI. Maybe this will do it, maybe not.

Elveen = Heat for a VEI book on the back market.

[Elveen]

The fallacy in your argument, my friend, is that this is not a back issue. They are making a difficult-to-get new issue.

It will quickly be a back issue.

Elveen + Doc = Friends =

[nycjadie]

At Big Wow, so many dealers told me they can't sell the new Valiant, even though the stories were good. I've seen that in the shops I've visited across the country. Only us crazy fans are buying them in droves. The fact they are doing a book like this at all is pretty awesome. They aren't going to
make money on it. It's for the fans. There will be plenty for the super fans, and if you want it right away, you'll pay a bit more.

Everybody wants things cheap and fast. Km reminded if this thread.
http://www.valiantfans.com/forum/viewto ... 79#p983079" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[FormerReader]

To Elveen: The 'heat' generated by a hard-to-find issue does not benefit either VEI or the loyal reader. It may benefit a retailer here and there, but VEI can only grow if it puts out stories that people want to read, not stash in plastic for a possible high price one day. I suspect VEI realises this -- because why else go to second or third printings on certain titles? If 'heat' is necessary, then why reprint? If you don't reprint, the relative scarcity of the First Printing will generate heat and drive up the back issue prices.

I disagree. VEI needs some heat as a company on a back issue. This is not only good for VEI but GREAT. It will attract other collectors to the company in general. The stories have been overall great, some good, some meh, and a majority amazing...... but.....

Overall their books have very little value. VEI needs to change this. I'm not saying that this plan WILL do that. But for VEI as a company, they need (as I called it) Heat. They need people wanting a book that is: hard to find, expensive to get, desirable by collectors.

It is NOT the most important thing, but it is something that they are missing. They are probably the only "major" publisher that has not had that the last 3 years.

Again, NOT saying that the plan is GOOD or that I support it, but if it DOES get them some "heat", then good.

VEI needs a book to be desired by more than the loyal readers they have. They need to grow. They can't be an "indy band" forever.

[lorddunlow]

So, straight from the man himself the #1 will be a 1:25 for Book of Death #1 orders and the others will be 1:10 for the subsequent Book of Death issues.

http://twitter.com/dinesh_s/status/590325578886029313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, there you have it, not so bad after all. The 1:25 might be tough for some of the smaller retailers, but the 1:10 should be attainable, if not, their's always Midtown or Mycomicshop.

My shop will not get these. I'll be looking for scans online. I'm not pay double typical cover price for these.

[jmatt]

I find it hard to believe nobody is talking about how great it is that we'll get this story. Chill, it won't be super expensive.

[lorddunlow]

I find it hard to believe nobody is talking about how great it is that we'll get this stories. Chill, it won't be super expensive.

How much do you think? I think $4.99 is a little much, but I spend that much because VEI is awesome and I want to support them. This is probably the line in the sand for me.

That's the problem actually. A lot of people won't get the stories. What VEI is saying is that for every person who wants this complete story, they want to sell more than 10 times the number they would if they just sold it normally. How is this a good thing? Seriously. That isn't a sarcastic or rhetorical question. Explain to me how a story that will cost much more per issue, is a hassle to obtain, and ensures that some READERS will not be able to read it on release date is a good thing.

[kjjohanson]

I find it hard to believe nobody is talking about how great it is that we'll get this stories. Chill, it won't be super expensive.

How much do you think? I think $4.99 is a little much, but I spend that much because VEI is awesome and I want to support them. This is probably the line in the sand for me.

That's the problem actually. A lot of people won't get the stories. What VEI is saying is that for every person who wants this complete story, they want to sell more than 10 times the number they would if they just sold it normally. How is this a good thing? Seriously. That isn't a sarcastic or rhetorical question. Explain to me how a story that will cost much more per issue, is a hassle to obtain, and ensures that some READERS will not be able to read it on release date is a good thing.

This. With VH1's coupon books, I think the point of the coupons were so you didn't have to physically cut up the actual book. Granted that's not how collector's viewed it, but readers could still get that story for the price of shipping, if they so desired, if they were readers from the beginning. This (assuming we have all of the details correct) is a money grab that takes advantage of people that like to read the stories.

[lorddunlow]

Also, I just looked up the Shadowman 13X thing. The Bleeding Cool issue was released in November and the digital copy of 13x wasn't available until January. That's 2 months. Also, one could just order the Bleeding Cool from the LCS and get the issue free with that. I looked at it as I was ordering a special issue (13x) and got an advertisement (Bleeding Cool magazine) with it. Sure, it was a expensive for what it was, but it was a one time thing that was mutually beneficial to two fledgling companies. The main thing was that if you wanted it, you could order it - simple as that.

People here like to hate on Marvel and DC, but if I'm going to have to wait 2 months to read some of VEI's comics in my preferred format (digital) or pay an exorbitant price to read it in a non-preferred format on day of release, then I actually thing Marvel has them beat. If I simply agree to wait 6 months to read the books and I pay them only $70 a year (I pay that for two months of VEI books), I can have access to their entire current library of books plus almost all of their back issues. (I know this is apples and oranges, but I'm not the one that started comparing to Marvel and DC.)

[jmatt]

Alright, well I guess I'm a little ambiguous on the matter.

First, I think that $4 for a comic is a lot of money.

But second, I'm accustomed to buying a $15 variant once a month because I want to support VEI, my LCS and make it affordable for the LCS to carry as many of the regular issues as possible to help build a reader base.

So while I'm in agreement about premium pricing for unique content, I'm also used to shelling out a little extra on a monthly basis for a variant cover.

All of that said, if I'm going to pay extra money every month to support the line, I would rather have extra content than yet another variant cover, any day of the week.

But I do agree, it's a slippery slope and I wouldn't want to see canon sold at a premium price on a regular basis.

[Dr. Solar]

Elveen + Doc = Friends =

You better believe it amigo!

[bygranddesign]

Alright, well I guess I'm a little ambiguous on the matter.

First, I think that $4 for a comic is a lot of money.

But second, I'm accustomed to buying a $15 variant once a month because I want to support VEI, my LCS and make it affordable for the LCS to carry as many of the regular issues as possible to help build a reader base.

So while I'm in agreement about premium pricing for unique content, I'm also used to shelling out a little extra on a monthly basis for a variant cover.

All of that said, if I'm going to pay extra money every month to support the line, I would rather have extra content than yet another variant cover, any day of the week.

But I do agree, it's a slippery slope and I wouldn't want to see canon sold at a premium price on a regular basis.

+1 this is well said

I also will pay up almost every time I make it to my LCS for 10-15$ variants ... So paying up for something that actually has some new content sounds cool to me - but I also see the pitfalls of that.

You want to find out who created the boon? And the Faraway? Who defeated the Torment on Loam with the XO Armor? The true origin of Gilad and how he became the Eternal Warrior?

Well, let me tell you about Valiantology... Join our cult ..I mean errr.. our religion ... And you'll learn all these guarded secrets + more as you move up the ranks of Valiantology ...just a small monthly membership fee is required at the start ...

[lorddunlow]

Just checked the article again. The main Book of Death looks to be the Valiant Prestige with 40 pgs each for $3.99 - that's good! The tie-in one-shots are all 32 pgs each for $3.99 - that's typical. However, the Legend of the Geomancer is only 24 pgs at whatever price you're able to obtain it for (likely more than $5) - not good.

[lorddunlow]

Alright, my last post here for the night, I promise. I'm beating a dead horse, but this really is ticking me off more each moment I think about it.

Let's say your LCS decides to make a push to over order Book of Death just so he can get a copy of Legend of the Geomancer into everyone at his store who says "gimme all the Valiant!!" He has 10 such customers (that's about 10 times more than my store has).

10 customers*25 copies of Book of Death #1 = 250 copies

Let's say he pushes the hell outta Book of Death #1 since he's swimming in copies when he only had 10 subscribers and (let's be generous) 20 people who just happened to pick the book up on a whim. He now has 220 copies sitting on his shelf.

Let's once again be very generous and say he increases the VEI readership by 5 because of his push. (He probably is still stuck with tons of stock that will be available in the dollar bins eventually.)

He now has 15 people saying "gimme all the Valiant" by the time #2 rolls around.

Problem #1 - he already placed his orders for #2 and likely #3 by this time. If he decided he was going to have one copy for each of the original 10, he now has 100 copies of Book of Death #2 coming in and only 10 copies of Legend of the Geomancer #2. There are now 5 fans who committed to a company that are immediately being screwed out of a copy of a book with unique content. How can the LCS fairly distribute them? They can't. You'll have 10 people who likely pay more for the 1:10 #2 because they'll be fighting each other for it and 5 unhappy campers who will ONLY be able to pick a copy up from another retailer (this screws the LCS that tried to support VEI) or buy from the secondary market (which also screws the retailer and means someone else makes some money just because they knew there would be demand for an artificially limited book).

If by some miracle, the LCS retains all of those customers and somehow even after all of that continues to gain VEI readers (which would hopefully be VEI's goal in this), then by the end he'll have more than 10 VEI customers - lets be REALLY generous and say he adds 10 more customers by the time Book of Death #4 comes out. That's now 25 total VEI readers. 15 of whom will not have easy access (other than inflated secondary market prices) to piece of their (hopefully) new favorite universe.

Problem #2 - ANY readers that come on board after this will find it difficult to "read everything" in paper form.


Now, in my opinion (if that counts for anything at all - it probably doesn't) my previous hypothetical requirements to qualify for a copy would be better than this. It wouldn't fix Problem #2, but it would alleviate #1. What I suggest (which isn't possible now because they've already told retailers what the requirements are) is that they make a "retailer-incentive variant SERIES" available in the number equal to how many full sets of the company's entire line of 9 books each month (i.e. each person who is "all in" on VEI earns a copy for their LCS). That would be a 1:9 line-wide ratio incentive and something that would increase readership. I'm already all in (but considering dropping a few *cough* Q&W *cough), but there are many who only get 3-6 books from VEI a month. It's not a big expense to add those few to get this special book that if they don't like, they can sell, likely for a small profit. In addition, no one is stuck with multiple copies of a book for no reason, but VEI's numbers would still get a bump across the line. If the LCS want additional copies they would then be bumping up shelf copies of the company's entire line. Seems like a win for VEI and a break even to minor inconvenience for fans (and a win for those already "all in" - the rabid fans who support them no matter what).

That's just my take on this. I'm sure a lot of you think I'm whining, but I want my discontent and (hopefully) constructive criticism noted by VEI (I know you guys read these boards!)

Like I said, I've said my peace, so other than responding to others' specific questions/comments and positive discussion about this book, I'll try to keep quiet on this.

[nycjadie]

Alright, well I guess I'm a little ambiguous on the matter.

First, I think that $4 for a comic is a lot of money.

But second, I'm accustomed to buying a $15 variant once a month because I want to support VEI, my LCS and make it affordable for the LCS to carry as many of the regular issues as possible to help build a reader base.

So while I'm in agreement about premium pricing for unique content, I'm also used to shelling out a little extra on a monthly basis for a variant cover.

All of that said, if I'm going to pay extra money every month to support the line, I would rather have extra content than yet another variant cover, any day of the week.

But I do agree, it's a slippery slope and I wouldn't want to see canon sold at a premium price on a regular basis.

+1 this is well said

I also will pay up almost every time I make it to my LCS for 10-15$ variants ... So paying up for something that actually has some new content sounds cool to me - but I also see the pitfalls of that.

You want to find out who created the boon? And the Faraway? Who defeated the Torment on Loam with the XO Armor? The true origin of Gilad and how he became the Eternal Warrior?

Well, let me tell you about Valiantology... Join our cult ..I mean errr.. our religion ... And you'll learn all these guarded secrets + more as you move up the ranks of Valiantology ...just a small monthly membership fee is required at the start ...

I watched that movie Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief recently. Wow!

[DirtbagSailor]

Well, I'll likely get a few copies somehow. I like rare and HTF stuff; however, I'm not going to be first in line this time. I too paid WAY too much for my Unity Red, and Unity 3-D, and ComixPro BS:R #1 (I unwittingly set the record on that one and Bleeding Cool even wrote about it... )

I sort of HOPE that this book IS as rare as advertised, though I doubt it in the end. Likely will be 500-1000 copies in circulation.

[DirtbagSailor]

Actually, here is a closer break-down.

IF Book of Death #1 has 20,000 orders, then it is reasonable to assume that 800 copies of Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer will be made availible to retailers.

IF Book of Death #1 has 25,000 orders, then it is reasonable to assume that 1,000 copies of Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer will be made availible to retailers.

IF Book of Death #1 has 30,000 orders, then it is reasonable to assume that 1,200 copies of Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer will be made availible to retailers.

IF Book of Death #1 has 37,500 orders, then it is reasonable to assume that 1,500 copies of Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer will be made availible to retailers.

[lorddunlow]

Okay, I'm not continuing to pile on. I'm posting something positive.

http://twitter.com/dinesh_s/status/590360689929166848" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems like they're willing to try to meet need, although I'm not sure how they plan to follow through with this promise. It may just be extended to that particular person or everyone, I'm not sure. I'll definitely give it a try with my LCS and then send VEI a message if (when) he says no can do.

[kjjohanson]

So, straight from the man himself the #1 will be a 1:25 for Book of Death #1 orders and the others will be 1:10 for the subsequent Book of Death issues.

http://twitter.com/dinesh_s/status/590325578886029313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At best we're looking at $55 for 4 issues. That's $13.75 an issue.

Ugh.

Considering that retailers set the price of the incentive variants, I kinda think that these books will end up costing more, since there will likely be more people looking for them than there would for a variant that's just a different cover, meaning retailers will have to order more of the regular book to qualify, meaning they will have to charge more to know that they can cover the expense of all of those extra books that they're ordering.

[cray_ws]

This basically proves two points I been harping about Valiant...Number one, they suck at promoting themselves and need to outsource their public relation/promotional department to a legitimate advertising agency who knows how to target the widest demographic, not comic book nerds pretending to be businesspeople (Comic shop owners). Number two, If promoting a exclusive story to a comic book dealer or anyone willing to order large quantities of single issue just to receive this rare story, then this company isn't thinking long term. This is short con job and it's a going bite them in the *SQUEE* because eventually they will reprint it or make it available to everyone, and thus original so called rare story will be nothing more than overpriced variant.

Valiant needs help and it shouldn't be coming from the people who came up with this jackbag promotion. It's idiotic to think that comic book dealers read everything they sell and remotely care about some rare story. All they see is money to be made by jacking up the price. It's a short con and Valiant are being enablers and ultimately their doom.