Harbinger 24 Discussion

[Carson]

Okay, upon rereading Bleeding Monk #0, I take back what I said about inadequate setup for his role in this issue.

One continuity question though: When Bleeding Monk departs the desiccated corpse of the NLoW, he appears as he originally was, a white man of Greek descent. When we next see him in the temple with his students, he appears as a withered man of Asian descent. But he doesn't transform his body until after he is killed and then gets buried during his 73 year meditation, upon which he reappears almost exactly as he did during the temple battle. Weird.

He changed his body before the first temple attack. When he was Greek it was before "mind changes the body itself." That was after he left the corpse of the ascetic.

I have the issue in front of me. The part where he meditates himself into the blood soaked earth comes after the temple attack, not after he leaves the NLoW.

It's a quibble, but odd continuity. He leaves the ascetic as a Greek and we next see him as a withered Asian monk in the temple.

Isn't there like 1,000 years or more between those times though? Plenty of time to lose his hair and change his body slowly over time, right?

That was my interpretation. He just aged and tanned.

[jmatt]

That was my interpretation. He just aged and tanned.

It's entirely possible. He just doesn't look like he changed all that much. And I gotta believe that sitting out in the sun for years at a time without a sip of water would certainly take a toll on your skin's condition.

Bleeding Monk, arising from a decade of meditating in the baking sun: "I have seen the future... I must find this magical poultice called 'Nivea'. Can anyone direct me to a pharmacy?"

"Yeah, there's one right up the street. Hey, dude? Your ear just flaked off..."

[Phoenix8008]

That was my interpretation. He just aged and tanned.

It's entirely possible. He just doesn't look like he changed all that much. And I gotta believe that sitting out in the sun for years at a time without a sip of water would certainly take a toll on your skin's condition.

Bleeding Monk, arising from a decade of meditating in the baking sun: "I have seen the future... I must find this magical poultice called 'Nivea'. Can anyone direct me to a pharmacy?"

"Yeah, there's one right up the street. Hey, dude? Your ear just flaked off..."

[dmezynski]

I liked this issue, although I'm a bit skeptical about the Bleeding Monk too. As I was reading the comic, I kept wondering why I should trust what he is saying. Not to mention Pete and Harada

[QUARTZ]

necessary evil.

Now there's a great title for a follow-up mini. Harbinger: Necessary Evil.

...maybe after Omegas?

[Shadowman99]

Gotta say, I haven't been as enthusiastic about Harbinger overall as some of you have over this last year and a half (or so), but these last couple of issues have really been something.

I thought that Flamingo's flashback at the end of #23 was a pretty weak attempt at giving the reader a reason to care about the character when the character'd only been given a pretty shallow depth overall to date, which let the issue down a bit for me, but whilst I didn't really care in the slightest for the death of the character in #23 it's good to see that the consequences led to some really good character development in the following issue.

Fantastic seeing the somewhat-matured characters at the resolution to their story, and the outcomes to their stories and the endings to the first part of this story. Really like that Torque and Faith seem happy together, that warmed the heart a little when reading. And also happy to see the final establishment of relationship between Pete and Khris. Not too convinced by Khris's sudden confession of love for Flamingo, having seen almost nothing of it previously in the series, but at least it came off more as captivation rather than actual love.

Not sure if I trust the Monk's claims of overall manipulation of Pete and Harada's situation, but to me that makes intriguing reading. Also very intrigued as to where the story goes from here regarding Pete and Harada's future actions, and the plot seeds that may have been sown in this issue. The matter of Harada possibly being 'Father' (in Rai), and the future where all humanity has psiot are interesting, but seeing as we haven't seen any hint that the average civillian in Rai has psiot powers yet, one has to assume (at current point) that the 'psiot evolution' occurrs some time after Rai's current events.

Did find Harada's 'beat up' appearance a bit weird. Most of the time he appears in the comic he's projecting a younger-looking shell whilst actually having the appearance of an old man underneath, so I thought it was a bit odd that the final panel (?) of the book showed Harada's 'young' shell looking beat up. To me, either Harada's true 'old' appearance should have been shown deformed instead, or we have to assume that the damage done has been so bad that even the shell displays signs of damage? Anyway, just a little something I'm currently pondering there.

Overall thought the issue was cracking, possibly the best of the series overall, and am looking forward to seeing what the future brings for Harbinger.

[Phoenix8008]

Wow! Finally got to actually read this issue and it blew me away! After all the action of last issue and Charlene actually dying, I didn't expect this much character growth in the aftermath. Once again, Mr. Dysart shows his mastery of writing. I LOVED Torque's emotional/power reaction to feeling responsible for them losing Flamingo. Going from getting smaller and weaker in previous issues because he was feeling less need to 'be the big man on the block' due to his feelings with Faith, then flipping that to show him feeling like he failed because he wasn't strong enough or tough enough and therefore being super giant sized is just FREAKIN' AWESOME!

Then, there was Kris coming out of the closet! So many layers of this to peel back and examine. First, we now see that the kiss between Charlene and Kris during the 'Perfect Day' was obviously a wish of Kris, not Charlene. Also, we know that Kris & Peter kissed a little when they were kids, but if she has been a lesbian for some time (guessing teenage years onward) and then Peter comes along and MAKES her LOVE him! Not only the violation that we knew about of forcing someone into something like that (and possibly physical rape as well as mental), but of switching their sexual preference for them and then leaving them with the memories of those feelings even after they're released from the compulsion! The depth of her hatred for him makes even more sense now looking back on those early issues. Finally, let me commend Mr. Dysart again for doing what no other comic/comic company has done that I've heard of: just letting the character be gay and not proclaiming it with a fanfare of trumpets from issue #1 just to blow their own horn about how diverse and multicultural they are! Bravo!

Last but not least, we see that Peter hasn't really learned his lesson about mucking with peoples minds. He does refuse to change how Kris feels, but only because he promised her he wouldn't. He has no issue with messing with Torque's head 'for his own good'. Be interesting to see if there are any repurcussions from this mental mucking around in the future.

Now my only question is: after being warned off by the Bleeding Monk to stop what their doing, why are Peter and Harada still going at it in Omegas? Obviously, Harada decides to not stop and decides to go full Doctor Doom and take over the world based on the scenes on the aircraft carrier. And if he doesn't give up, then Peter is gonna decide to fight him. #25 and Omegas should be awesome! And I can't wait to see what happens after that!

(Geez! Ya think I used enough exclamation points in this post? Not apologizing. It was that exciting!!!)

[lorddunlow]

Now my only question is: after being warned off by the Bleeding Monk to stop what their doing, why are Peter and Harada still going at it in Omegas? Obviously, Harada decides to not stop and decides to go full Doctor Doom and take over the world based on the scenes on the aircraft carrier. And if he doesn't give up, then Peter is gonna decide to fight him. #25 and Omegas should be awesome! And I can't wait to see what happens after that!

The Bleeding Monk is manipulating everyone. He knows knows what else everyone will do, so he probably was just trying to keep them from ending each other so they could have a battle on a larger stage. Every action the Monk takes is calculated to create the future he desires.

[rpellech83]

In a week where I was completely disappointed with Invincible, this book was amazing. Love how Pete decides to follow the Monk's advice though I think it obvious he will be pulled back into the drama at some point. I also think that the only thing Pete really did with Torque was help home to shrink back down to normal size. Interested in the next phase of this story.

[String]

Some great character moments all around, but for me, the best part of this tale was Flamingo's body crumbling to dust in Faith's arms.

In a time when the Comic Revolving Door of Death is so prevalent and tiresome, showing such finality over her death is quite the welcome sight. Thank you Dysart.

[kjjohanson]

Some great character moments all around, but for me, the best part of this tale was Flamingo's body crumbling to dust in Faith's arms.

Or as I like to call it, "the money shot"

[lorddunlow]

Some great character moments all around, but for me, the best part of this tale was Flamingo's body crumbling to dust in Faith's arms.

Or as I like to call it, "the money shot"

[grendeljd]

Some great character moments all around, but for me, the best part of this tale was Flamingo's body crumbling to dust in Faith's arms.

Or as I like to call it, "the money shot"

[leonmallett]

...But the climax was less thrilling than I thought. BM shows up kinda deus ex machina and declares it to be over. When did he start deciding how the future would unfold? I'm not sure that I feel he is established enough as a character to be granted this role.

His zero issue was good, albeit it a little mumbo-jumbo-y, but when did he become the grand chess master with lines like "You have played your role and now it is over"? My sense of the character is that he was involved in the actions of Peter and Harada but not in control of them.
...

I had that exact feeling; Bleeding Monk's pivotal involvement had not really been signaled in that way (or at least not that I picked up), so it felt forced in this issue. I cannot recall any real foreshadowing on that point unless it was too subtle for my unsubtle mind.

[leonmallett]

I can't imagine where it goes next.

It ends. Then what's left becomes a series of mini series obsessed with finding new readership, and everything that made the book special in the first place gets stripped away for issue 1 buys and "wait for trade" sales.

I for one hope that End Times was a failed experiment that won't be oft-repeated.

[leonmallett]

No one else has said this yet, so I gotta get it out of the way before I gush about this amazing issue.

...

The Bleeding Monk says, and I quote;

"Let me tell you of the new future, child Toyo. You alone could have unlocked the science of the psiot mind. And so you have.

There will come an age when all humanity will have abilities beyond their current imagination, not just the activated few.

They will use their powers to explore inner & outer space at a staggering rate. And you are the father of that, Harada."

...

Dysart just set the table for a version of PSI-Lords to happen in the Valiant future universe. Boom.

agreed. Definitely see this as Dysart planting the seeds to a 4001 story arc and perhaps Psi-Lords.

[leonmallett]

Gotta say, I haven't been as enthusiastic about Harbinger overall as some of you have over this last year and a half (or so), but these last couple of issues have really been something.
...

Ditto.

[leonmallett]

Possibly the best issue of Harbinger so far for me; I have begun to appreciate the title more and more in the past few issues post-Perfect Day (and the tedium of Torquehalla).

Such a downbeat issue, and most of the parts fit the tone perfectly and the playing out of the beats, at least for me.

I have to agree about the line Harada made to Bleeding Monk about showing the Monk's remains up his *SQUEE* was just, well it was WTF for me, and took me out of the story for a moment, so possibly the only real misplaced beat IMHO.

I did not buy Bleeding monk as the all-power he was presented as here; it did feel like deus ex machina, but it was something I could accept despite that, and did not give me undue pause, unlike the stupid Harada line of dialogue. And a re-read is necessary for me too to see if those thoughts are misplaced.

I sincerely hope that we can see Faith, Kris and Torque gather new allies. I think the title has plenty of life left in it, especially with those three, and if it did continue, I don't think a clean slate approach would be a worthy step. I hope it does not become a series of mini series, as that kind of thing has killed more than a few books (with notable exceptions), and I don't think VEI would be an exception sorry to say.

In all, Harbinger 24 is perhaps the best issue of the series so far for me, and certainly one of VEI's best in my opinion.