Next "new" story?

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:18 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:1-A's model was a pretty crappy one, hardly one that Grandmother would consider using as her champion, so it stands to reason that, since the further you go back in time the more low-tech technology becomes, that any robotic machinery that existed between 3050 and 3216 would be of lesser mobility and abilities than 1-A's model (like comparing today's cell phone with a rotary phone from 20 years ago).

Actuallly, I would say that 1A was pretty advanced. The first robot tech officer! Wow, before him robots weren't advanced enough to be in the Solar Fleet - all they could do were the relatively simple tasks that they were programmed for.

There is NOTHING to suggest in the comics that there was any kind of robotic machinery that Grandmother could have used to create a robotic champion, least of all a "giant robot".

Did I say giant robot? I don't recall saying it.

Anyway, even if I did, it was probably used as an example. It doesn't have to be a "giant robot". It could be anything. Hell, it could be a gun

If robots had existed prior to 3610 then by the 41st century there would have been MORE freewills, at least 10 of them (one per century counting 1-A and Grandmother).

Depends on the kind of robot. One without the required computer/brain capacity might not even be capable of going freewill, any more than a pda is capable of solving complex modelling equations even though they are both computers.

Of course, now you're argueing against your point and agreeing with me.

I never said it had to be a free will. I initially just suggested a robot, then posited that it could potentially be a free will. You then started arguing that it couldn't even be a robot!

Say that you're right and that 1-A was the first positronic brain and that such a brain is required to become freewill (which Grandmother's freedom negates...), if you're right then there were no other positronic brains before and thus no freewills.

First freewill robot. AS you have pointed out, Grandmother was not a robot. Her mainframe may have been complex enough (much like a positronic brain in a robot) to allow her to go freewill.

You ignore the fact, the FACT, we have robots now. Again, I ask, do you really think that robot technology will not advance in the next 1000 years?
What WE have now is IRRELEVANT to the canon and "dogma" of the VALIANT Universe.

Ummm...wasn't it you who quoted "the world outside our window"? Well, the world outside my window has robots.

Chris

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:21 pm

Actuallly, I would say that 1A was pretty advanced. The first robot tech officer! Wow, before him robots weren't advanced enough to be in the Solar Fleet - all they could do were the relatively simple tasks that they were programmed for.

Did I say giant robot? I don't recall saying it.

Anyway, even if I did, it was probably used as an example. It doesn't have to be a "giant robot". It could be anything. Hell, it could be a gun

Depends on the kind of robot. One without the required computer/brain capacity might not even be capable of going freewill, any more than a pda is capable of solving complex modelling equations even though they are both computers.

I never said it had to be a free will. I initially just suggested a robot, then posited that it could potentially be a free will. You then started arguing that it couldn't even be a robot!

First freewill robot. AS you have pointed out, Grandmother was not a robot. Her mainframe may have been complex enough (much like a positronic brain in a robot) to allow her to go freewill.

You seem to be getting the point, but somehow it keeps eluding you.

In the timeframe being discussed, 3050 to 3216, robots were not sofisticated enough (if they existed at all) to be warriors like the kind that Grandmother would need to protect Japan.

Whatever she could have created back then would not be a robot, and it would not be a champion, and it would not be a guardian. It be nothing more than weapons that she would control.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:34 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
Actuallly, I would say that 1A was pretty advanced. The first robot tech officer! Wow, before him robots weren't advanced enough to be in the Solar Fleet - all they could do were the relatively simple tasks that they were programmed for.

Did I say giant robot? I don't recall saying it.

Anyway, even if I did, it was probably used as an example. It doesn't have to be a "giant robot". It could be anything. Hell, it could be a gun

Depends on the kind of robot. One without the required computer/brain capacity might not even be capable of going freewill, any more than a pda is capable of solving complex modelling equations even though they are both computers.

I never said it had to be a free will. I initially just suggested a robot, then posited that it could potentially be a free will. You then started arguing that it couldn't even be a robot!

First freewill robot. AS you have pointed out, Grandmother was not a robot. Her mainframe may have been complex enough (much like a positronic brain in a robot) to allow her to go freewill.
You seem to be getting the point, but somehow it keeps eluding you.

In the timeframe being discussed, 3050 to 3216, robots were not sofisticated enough (if they existed at all) to be warriors like the kind that Grandmother would need to protect Japan.

Whatever she could have created back then would not be a robot, and it would not be a champion, and it would not be a guardian. It be nothing more than weapons that she would control.

Just for perspective are we talking current Japan or giant-flying-lizard-in-space-Japan?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:35 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
Actuallly, I would say that 1A was pretty advanced. The first robot tech officer! Wow, before him robots weren't advanced enough to be in the Solar Fleet - all they could do were the relatively simple tasks that they were programmed for.

Did I say giant robot? I don't recall saying it.

Anyway, even if I did, it was probably used as an example. It doesn't have to be a "giant robot". It could be anything. Hell, it could be a gun

Depends on the kind of robot. One without the required computer/brain capacity might not even be capable of going freewill, any more than a pda is capable of solving complex modelling equations even though they are both computers.

I never said it had to be a free will. I initially just suggested a robot, then posited that it could potentially be a free will. You then started arguing that it couldn't even be a robot!

First freewill robot. AS you have pointed out, Grandmother was not a robot. Her mainframe may have been complex enough (much like a positronic brain in a robot) to allow her to go freewill.
You seem to be getting the point, but somehow it keeps eluding you.

In the timeframe being discussed, 3050 to 3216, robots were not sofisticated enough (if they existed at all) to be warriors like the kind that Grandmother would need to protect Japan.

Whatever she could have created back then would not be a robot, and it would not be a champion, and it would not be a guardian. It be nothing more than weapons that she would control.
Just for perspective are we talking current Japan or giant-flying-lizard-in-space-Japan?

The latter

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:37 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
Actuallly, I would say that 1A was pretty advanced. The first robot tech officer! Wow, before him robots weren't advanced enough to be in the Solar Fleet - all they could do were the relatively simple tasks that they were programmed for.

Did I say giant robot? I don't recall saying it.

Anyway, even if I did, it was probably used as an example. It doesn't have to be a "giant robot". It could be anything. Hell, it could be a gun

Depends on the kind of robot. One without the required computer/brain capacity might not even be capable of going freewill, any more than a pda is capable of solving complex modelling equations even though they are both computers.

I never said it had to be a free will. I initially just suggested a robot, then posited that it could potentially be a free will. You then started arguing that it couldn't even be a robot!

First freewill robot. AS you have pointed out, Grandmother was not a robot. Her mainframe may have been complex enough (much like a positronic brain in a robot) to allow her to go freewill.
You seem to be getting the point, but somehow it keeps eluding you.

In the timeframe being discussed, 3050 to 3216, robots were not sofisticated enough (if they existed at all) to be warriors like the kind that Grandmother would need to protect Japan.

Whatever she could have created back then would not be a robot, and it would not be a champion, and it would not be a guardian. It be nothing more than weapons that she would control.
Just for perspective are we talking current Japan or giant-flying-lizard-in-space-Japan?
The latter

Roger.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:37 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
Actuallly, I would say that 1A was pretty advanced. The first robot tech officer! Wow, before him robots weren't advanced enough to be in the Solar Fleet - all they could do were the relatively simple tasks that they were programmed for.

Did I say giant robot? I don't recall saying it.

Anyway, even if I did, it was probably used as an example. It doesn't have to be a "giant robot". It could be anything. Hell, it could be a gun

Depends on the kind of robot. One without the required computer/brain capacity might not even be capable of going freewill, any more than a pda is capable of solving complex modelling equations even though they are both computers.

I never said it had to be a free will. I initially just suggested a robot, then posited that it could potentially be a free will. You then started arguing that it couldn't even be a robot!

First freewill robot. AS you have pointed out, Grandmother was not a robot. Her mainframe may have been complex enough (much like a positronic brain in a robot) to allow her to go freewill.
You seem to be getting the point, but somehow it keeps eluding you.

In the timeframe being discussed, 3050 to 3216, robots were not sofisticated enough (if they existed at all) to be warriors like the kind that Grandmother would need to protect Japan.

Whatever she could have created back then would not be a robot, and it would not be a champion, and it would not be a guardian. It be nothing more than weapons that she would control.
Just for perspective are we talking current Japan or giant-flying-lizard-in-space-Japan?
The latter
Roger.

Um.. it's Mike.

I was only gone for less than two weeks and you already forgot my name

(

)

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:41 pm

You know, it's just funny to me that given the level of sophistication we see in robotics now, MOTA seems to think that given 1000 years the level of sophistication will not drastically advance.

Thats like saying that in 1008 AD, the techology was pretty much the same that we have now.

Chris

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:41 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
Actuallly, I would say that 1A was pretty advanced. The first robot tech officer! Wow, before him robots weren't advanced enough to be in the Solar Fleet - all they could do were the relatively simple tasks that they were programmed for.

Did I say giant robot? I don't recall saying it.

Anyway, even if I did, it was probably used as an example. It doesn't have to be a "giant robot". It could be anything. Hell, it could be a gun

Depends on the kind of robot. One without the required computer/brain capacity might not even be capable of going freewill, any more than a pda is capable of solving complex modelling equations even though they are both computers.

I never said it had to be a free will. I initially just suggested a robot, then posited that it could potentially be a free will. You then started arguing that it couldn't even be a robot!

First freewill robot. AS you have pointed out, Grandmother was not a robot. Her mainframe may have been complex enough (much like a positronic brain in a robot) to allow her to go freewill.
You seem to be getting the point, but somehow it keeps eluding you.

In the timeframe being discussed, 3050 to 3216, robots were not sofisticated enough (if they existed at all) to be warriors like the kind that Grandmother would need to protect Japan.

Whatever she could have created back then would not be a robot, and it would not be a champion, and it would not be a guardian. It be nothing more than weapons that she would control.
Just for perspective are we talking current Japan or giant-flying-lizard-in-space-Japan?
The latter
Roger.
Um.. it's Mike.

I was only gone for less than two weeks and you already forgot my name ( )

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:43 pm

cjv wrote:You know, it's just funny to me that given the level of sophistication we see in robotics now, MOTA seems to think that given 1000 years the level of sophistication will not drastically advance.

Thats like saying that in 1008 AD, the techology was pretty much the same that we have now.

Chris

This is becoming tiresome.

So, anyway, taking things back to before they were derailled on an unsupported idea.

A proto Rai is a good idea. A proto Rai that was a giant freewill robot is unsupported by the facts.

What else you got?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:00 pm

I got it.

Before Grandmother decided to create Rai in Bloodshot's image, she decided to create her champion in the image of another hero whose legend surpased that of Bloodshot's.... JACK BONIFACE!!!

Using the information in her database, Grandmother managed to scientifically recreate the Darque Power and created a champion using necromantic energy.

Rai + Mask of Shadows = Rising Spirit, the first champion of Japan. Someone who Grandmother literally rose from the dead.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:02 pm

Rai was created in Bloodshot's image and no one knew who Shadowman was during UNITY.

Oh yeah--MUCH greater.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:03 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:

Rai was created in Bloodshot's image and no one knew who Shadowman was during UNITY.

Oh yeah--MUCH greater.

Not that many people interacted with Jack during Unity, and Jack's (aka Shadowman's) legend would surely surpass Bloodshot's. Those two would be the most well known heroes of the 20th Century along with Solar.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:04 pm

noob

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:05 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:noob

heh

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:10 am

Shadowman story - what if it wasn't the origin of Darque, but rather the origin of Darque power? The origin of magic in the Valiant universe? You could delve more into what it is, what it isn't, and exactly what it is capable of.

Chris

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:18 am

that would be a cool origen

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:00 pm

cjv wrote:Shadowman story - what if it wasn't the origin of Darque, but rather the origin of Darque power? The origin of magic in the Valiant universe? You could delve more into what it is, what it isn't, and exactly what it is capable of.

Chris

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:26 pm

wow we all agree we speak as 1

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:36 pm

So: what kinds of extras do you want for A&D and THE GRACKLE?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:41 pm

Chris,

Here's one option for your "robot guardian" that you missed.

In the early 90's, Solar fought a Spider Alien in an X-O Manowar armor on Saturn and abandoned him there after he died.

Some time later, Solar returned to Saturn and collected the manowar seed that the armor had spawned, and when he returned to Earth he abandoned the armor again.

This happened in 93-94, so by 3994 (give or take) the armor could have spawned another manowar seed (unless they only spawn once in their lifespan, I forget).

Grandmother could have sent her people to Saturn to collect the Manowar that Solar abandoned (or the seed, if there was one, or both) and use it (or the seed) to create her own Manowar champion.

It be interesting if she had collected both the Manowar armor and the seed, then used the manowar for her champion and kept the seed in storage.

Whoever she gave the armor to could have gone crazy so she had to destroy him (sort of how she exiled Sho. Grandmother showed no qualm against discarting her champions if she felt that they weren't working for her goals).

The Anti-Grannies could have then stolen the seed and kept it in storgage for the day when they could find someone to bond it to, a day that never came.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:10 pm

That's another possibility.

I am not sure how she would know about the armor or the seed, though. Wasn't Solar the only one who knew where the armor was?

Or it could also be some sort of human/robot android. (human brain/body with robot parts).

I wonder if there was any other spider alien technology she could usurp?

Chris

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:13 pm

That's another possibility.

I am not sure how she would know about the armor or the seed, though. Wasn't Solar the only one who knew where the armor was?

There are many number of ways in which she could find the armor. Historical data is one way. A general scan of the solar system would be another. A human mission to Saturn that stumbles across the abandoned armor could be yet another.

Or it could also be some sort of human/robot android. (human brain/body with robot parts).

Hmmm.... Ax-based technology.

I wonder if there was any other spider alien technology she could usurp?

It's (slimly) possible. As seen prior to Chaos Effect, the aliens did have at least one space ship hidden in a warehouse owned by Orb Industries.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:35 pm

The wiki's Administrator just created this page, so I guess that the short story will be about the greatest villain the VALIANT Universe ever saw (

)

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Thu May 01, 2008 5:25 am

And the Pie-Man. Can't forget the Pie-Man!

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:38 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
That's another possibility.

I am not sure how she would know about the armor or the seed, though. Wasn't Solar the only one who knew where the armor was?
There are many number of ways in which she could find the armor. Historical data is one way. A general scan of the solar system would be another. A human mission to Saturn that stumbles across the abandoned armor could be yet another.

I am not sure how she could use historical data - since history did not record anything about Solar fighting the XO armor on Saturn.

And let me get this straight - you question the technology of being able to have robots 1000 years from now, yet you casually toss out the idea of "a solar system scan" or a "human mission to Saturn".

Should I request that you "prove it"? Is there anything in the comics that "proves" that a) a "scan of the solar system" is possible, or that b) such technology existed by 3050?

Or it could also be some sort of human/robot android. (human brain/body with robot parts).
Hmmm.... Ax-based technology.

Yup.

Chris