Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[Paul Nolan]

asking DCBS about the price on Legends of the Geomancer...

"We apologize for the confusion. The price has been updated to $20.00. We were not aware that this title was a 1:25 copy incentive."

is this a case that there are so many comics in previews, that companies miss this kind of thing?

[leonmallett]

For everyone who places themselves in the "readers only" category - Why don't you buy mostly trades, hardcovers, omnibuses, ad compendiums rather than floppies since they are often cheaper and sometimes contain more "content"?

.....not everything gets collected in tpb; and indications are that this won't, right?

Which is why I used the words above in underlined bold.
Even though VEI has said LOG will not be reprinted in trade format, that doesn't preclude other formats including but not limited to hardcovers and omnibus. I believe VEI will reprint the 4 issue LOG story or stories in some format at some point in the future based on nothing but my personal opinion.

I have emailed to ask if it will be collected: no response so far.

As for being a reader; I like to read the stories contemporaneously, and I like to re-read via hard-cover collections, so I buy monthly comic books from VEI, and their deluxe editions for later re-reading. As a reader.

[Tim]

21 pages of this?

If you guys talked up your LCS, fellow readers, or this forum about the positive things this company has done as you have complained about a few books it wouldn't bother me...

Oh please..... This board has done nothing but talk up the positive things this company has done for as long as they've been in existence. I have never seen a group of fans go out of their way to hype up and promote a comic book company as I have seen here. But as soon as someone questions something or has negativity about something VEI does they're either doom and gloomers or spoiled entitled brats.

[leonmallett]

21 pages of this?

If you guys talked up your LCS, fellow readers, or this forum about the positive things this company has done as you have complained about a few books it wouldn't bother me...

Oh please..... This board has done nothing but talk up the positive things this company has done for as long as they've been in existence. I have never seen a group of fans go out of their way to hype up and promote a comic book company as I have seen here. But as soon as someone questions something or has negativity about something VEI does they're either doom and gloomers or spoiled entitled brats.

[Tim]

Here's the email I got:

Hi,

I apologize. We sell so many bundles each month and the cost to purchase 25 copies of another book for each bundle makes that cost prohibitive. Because almost all of our books are discounted so heavily, we are unable to “make up” for those instances and it would only be a considerable loss for us.

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience and are sorry that we do not have a regular option for you.



Thanks,

Christina

co-owner

[Joshua]

A very understandable response.

[JonesyAZ]

21 pages of this?

If you guys talked up your LCS, fellow readers, or this forum about the positive things this company has done as you have complained about a few books it wouldn't bother me...

Oh please..... This board has done nothing but talk up the positive things this company has done for as long as they've been in existence. I have never seen a group of fans go out of their way to hype up and promote a comic book company as I have seen here. But as soon as someone questions something or has negativity about something VEI does they're either doom and gloomers or spoiled entitled brats.

Tim makes a good point here. Do I personally like reading pages of negativity and ranting? No. However, I also am open to and respect differing points of view to my own, and because I also know how passionate we all are about Valiant...the same passion that feeds overwhelming positivity can also feed the same level of frustration and negativity. It's what it is, and it still makes good forum reading...lol.

The whole "variant" business that is reality in the current comics world is something I've struggled with for years now. I've been angry about it, and I've also gotten much enjoyment out of it; the latter when I have taken the time to save up for a hard-to-get variant and can purchase it as a reward for my patience. But that's just me.

I know I've said this before, but the way that I am choosing to handle this is that I've contacted my LCS and let them know I'd like to add this book to my pullbox list and when the day comes that issue one comes out, i'll decide if I want to collect the rest of the four-issue series depending on how much I end up having to pay for issue one. While a risk, thankfully I have some time to put money aside to save up for the book and therefore, reward myself for the building excitement and anticipation of a variant with all-original content.

Now...to the rest of you, please continue sharing your thoughts and feelings on this. It is my hope that Valiant is listening...to all the good and all the bad.

[agent_graves]

As someone who has bought every single new Valiant title as it has come out, not to mention supported Acclaim and the original Valiant (including paying $60 for Solar #10 and $400 for Harbinger #1-5 back in the day), I have very likely bought my last Valiant comic. The sheer audacity and arrogance of this move has baffled me. This is something not even Marvel, at their worst, would have done. And that's WOULD have. For everyone willing to support this, know that you WILL be starting a trend if successful. I don't mind absurdly priced variants. I've bought more than a few myself, but putting an entire SERIES behind an artificial pay-wall is something I can not, and will not, support. I have cancelled this month's Valiant titles and if they do not come to their senses before May 27th, I will never give this company another dime in any way, shape or form. If you have ANY love for comics as a medium, DO NOT support this. Despite movies based on comics making 100s of million of dollars, comics, as an entity, barely survives. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that could contribute to the end of the form. Valiant comics sold between 4k and 24k copies in March, with only Ninjak #1 being over 10k. This is an excellent way to make those numbers go down, not up. I guess this is the crap you get when some moron gives 100 million dollars to a company that can't manage to move 25,000 copies of a book.

I just... I just don't get it, if you are willing to pay $20 for a 1:25 variant, what's the difference, this variant (LOTG) actually has original content inside, 24pgs, I might add. We're actually getting something out of this deal...

That's the problem, a lot of us AREN'T willing to spend $20 on a variant. We're just here for good stories and we're not allowed to read said story due to some crackheaded fourth wall gimmick.

But, you are allowed to read it, you just got to pay the cost, that's all.

As I've said before. If VEI, Marvel, DC, Image, etc. published a new 24 page book with a cover price of $20 (remember some places are selling it for more), there would be an outcry from the community about how ridiculous that price was and no one would buy it. That is a hypothetical where there is no "catch" for retailers to order it. Add in VEI's catch, and I don't understand how anyone can be happy with this move (other than VEI and their investors if it improves the bottom line).

Their's no "catch", this is an incentive, variants, are published every week, at inflated prices set by retailers, this is no different. It's considered a 1:25 variant, (but in this case, this variant contains another story, all original content, that never happens) we all know how that breaks down so, of course they gonna sell it like a variant, which in turn, pays the cost of BOD, which they can still push and make profit.

[lorddunlow]

21 pages of this?

If you guys talked up your LCS, fellow readers, or this forum about the positive things this company has done as you have complained about a few books it wouldn't bother me...

To be fair, at least 12 pages were devoted to defining "collector" vs. "reader" so it's more like 9-10 pages of complaining.

[lorddunlow]

As someone who has bought every single new Valiant title as it has come out, not to mention supported Acclaim and the original Valiant (including paying $60 for Solar #10 and $400 for Harbinger #1-5 back in the day), I have very likely bought my last Valiant comic. The sheer audacity and arrogance of this move has baffled me. This is something not even Marvel, at their worst, would have done. And that's WOULD have. For everyone willing to support this, know that you WILL be starting a trend if successful. I don't mind absurdly priced variants. I've bought more than a few myself, but putting an entire SERIES behind an artificial pay-wall is something I can not, and will not, support. I have cancelled this month's Valiant titles and if they do not come to their senses before May 27th, I will never give this company another dime in any way, shape or form. If you have ANY love for comics as a medium, DO NOT support this. Despite movies based on comics making 100s of million of dollars, comics, as an entity, barely survives. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing that could contribute to the end of the form. Valiant comics sold between 4k and 24k copies in March, with only Ninjak #1 being over 10k. This is an excellent way to make those numbers go down, not up. I guess this is the crap you get when some moron gives 100 million dollars to a company that can't manage to move 25,000 copies of a book.

I just... I just don't get it, if you are willing to pay $20 for a 1:25 variant, what's the difference, this variant (LOTG) actually has original content inside, 24pgs, I might add. We're actually getting something out of this deal...

That's the problem, a lot of us AREN'T willing to spend $20 on a variant. We're just here for good stories and we're not allowed to read said story due to some crackheaded fourth wall gimmick.

But, you are allowed to read it, you just got to pay the cost, that's all.

As I've said before. If VEI, Marvel, DC, Image, etc. published a new 24 page book with a cover price of $20 (remember some places are selling it for more), there would be an outcry from the community about how ridiculous that price was and no one would buy it. That is a hypothetical where there is no "catch" for retailers to order it. Add in VEI's catch, and I don't understand how anyone can be happy with this move (other than VEI and their investors if it improves the bottom line).

Their's no "catch", this is an incentive, variants, are published every week, at inflated prices set by retailers, this is no different. It's considered a 1:25 variant, (but in this case, this variant contains another story, all original content, that never happens) we all know how that breaks down so, of course they gonna sell it like a variant, which in turn, pays the cost of BOD, which they can still push and make profit.

"Their" is a catch. If I want to buy X-O Manowar #40, then I say to my LCS, "Hey, order me a copy of X-O Manowar #40, please" and he does that, and I can purchase it from him on the day of release. I don't have to make him order 25 copies of Timewalker #7. That's a hoop to jump through just to order a title published by a company. It's ridiculous.

So, you think if VEI started having one book every month that cost $20 or more to obtain would be a good idea? (With or without hoop jumping)

[agent_graves]

I just... I just don't get it, if you are willing to pay $20 for a 1:25 variant, what's the difference, this variant (LOTG) actually has original content inside, 24pgs, I might add. We're actually getting something out of this deal...

That's the problem, a lot of us AREN'T willing to spend $20 on a variant. We're just here for good stories and we're not allowed to read said story due to some crackheaded fourth wall gimmick.

But, you are allowed to read it, you just got to pay the cost, that's all.

As I've said before. If VEI, Marvel, DC, Image, etc. published a new 24 page book with a cover price of $20 (remember some places are selling it for more), there would be an outcry from the community about how ridiculous that price was and no one would buy it. That is a hypothetical where there is no "catch" for retailers to order it. Add in VEI's catch, and I don't understand how anyone can be happy with this move (other than VEI and their investors if it improves the bottom line).

Their's no "catch", this is an incentive, variants, are published every week, at inflated prices set by retailers, this is no different. It's considered a 1:25 variant, (but in this case, this variant contains another story, all original content, that never happens) we all know how that breaks down so, of course they gonna sell it like a variant, which in turn, pays the cost of BOD, which they can still push and make profit.

"Their" is a catch. If I want to buy X-O Manowar #40, then I say to my LCS, "Hey, order me a copy of X-O Manowar #40, please" and he does that, and I can purchase it from him on the day of release. I don't have to make him order 25 copies of Timewalker #7. That's a hoop to jump through just to order a title published by a company. It's ridiculous.

So, you think if VEI started having one book every month that cost $20 or more to obtain would be a good idea? (With or without hoop jumping)

It's considered a variant, set at a 1:25 incentive, you do understand how that works right?

[lorddunlow]

That's the problem, a lot of us AREN'T willing to spend $20 on a variant. We're just here for good stories and we're not allowed to read said story due to some crackheaded fourth wall gimmick.

But, you are allowed to read it, you just got to pay the cost, that's all.

As I've said before. If VEI, Marvel, DC, Image, etc. published a new 24 page book with a cover price of $20 (remember some places are selling it for more), there would be an outcry from the community about how ridiculous that price was and no one would buy it. That is a hypothetical where there is no "catch" for retailers to order it. Add in VEI's catch, and I don't understand how anyone can be happy with this move (other than VEI and their investors if it improves the bottom line).

Their's no "catch", this is an incentive, variants, are published every week, at inflated prices set by retailers, this is no different. It's considered a 1:25 variant, (but in this case, this variant contains another story, all original content, that never happens) we all know how that breaks down so, of course they gonna sell it like a variant, which in turn, pays the cost of BOD, which they can still push and make profit.

"Their" is a catch. If I want to buy X-O Manowar #40, then I say to my LCS, "Hey, order me a copy of X-O Manowar #40, please" and he does that, and I can purchase it from him on the day of release. I don't have to make him order 25 copies of Timewalker #7. That's a hoop to jump through just to order a title published by a company. It's ridiculous.

So, you think if VEI started having one book every month that cost $20 or more to obtain would be a good idea? (With or without hoop jumping)

It's considered a variant, set at a 1:25 incentive, you do understand how that works right?

[leonmallett]

That's the problem, a lot of us AREN'T willing to spend $20 on a variant. We're just here for good stories and we're not allowed to read said story due to some crackheaded fourth wall gimmick.

But, you are allowed to read it, you just got to pay the cost, that's all.

As I've said before. If VEI, Marvel, DC, Image, etc. published a new 24 page book with a cover price of $20 (remember some places are selling it for more), there would be an outcry from the community about how ridiculous that price was and no one would buy it. That is a hypothetical where there is no "catch" for retailers to order it. Add in VEI's catch, and I don't understand how anyone can be happy with this move (other than VEI and their investors if it improves the bottom line).

Their's no "catch", this is an incentive, variants, are published every week, at inflated prices set by retailers, this is no different. It's considered a 1:25 variant, (but in this case, this variant contains another story, all original content, that never happens) we all know how that breaks down so, of course they gonna sell it like a variant, which in turn, pays the cost of BOD, which they can still push and make profit.

"Their" is a catch. If I want to buy X-O Manowar #40, then I say to my LCS, "Hey, order me a copy of X-O Manowar #40, please" and he does that, and I can purchase it from him on the day of release. I don't have to make him order 25 copies of Timewalker #7. That's a hoop to jump through just to order a title published by a company. It's ridiculous.

So, you think if VEI started having one book every month that cost $20 or more to obtain would be a good idea? (With or without hoop jumping)

It's considered a variant, set at a 1:25 incentive, you do understand how that works right?

Except this is pretty much a unique incidence:

(but in this case, this variant contains another story, all original content, that never happens)

And it is limited accessibility for story that creates a concern among a group of very loyal supporters/customers. And honestly, I cannot see my local UK LCS picking up enough BoD copies to satisfy demand. Different market.

[DantePD]

asking DCBS about the price on Legends of the Geomancer...

"We apologize for the confusion. The price has been updated to $20.00. We were not aware that this title was a 1:25 copy incentive."

is this a case that there are so many comics in previews, that companies miss this kind of thing?

DCBS is telling me via Twitter right now that charging $20 for a $4.99 cover price book is doing a service for their customers.

No. It's called gouging.

[agent_graves]

[paradise]

asking DCBS about the price on Legends of the Geomancer...

"We apologize for the confusion. The price has been updated to $20.00. We were not aware that this title was a 1:25 copy incentive."

is this a case that there are so many comics in previews, that companies miss this kind of thing?

DCBS is telling me via Twitter right now that charging $20 for a $4.99 cover price book is doing a service for their customers.

No. It's called gouging.

Have you ever done previews order form? If you have not, trust me, you don't know anything about that. it takes more than a day of work to process that. We start 2 weeks in advance with a managers meeting to figure out strategies, and then each manager has to enter data, check all incentives, adjust numbers between stores, it's a BiG deal. And we still always mess up somewhere. In 21 years I don't think I have ever had a perfect one.

Oh, and that book has no cover price, sorry. Each store has to order 25 copies of the main title, which will cost them $20 (normally would have cost $50 but VEI is incentivising it like crazy). So $20 for a book that costs a retailer $20 is not that bad a deal. Or you can get it for free with our deal, by ordering all the covers together as a set. I know it's not for everyone, it's for guys who collect variants, but that's how we are doing it.

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[turbod16]

I love reading all whining in this thread , it's *SQUEE* hilarious.

[leonmallett]

I love reading all whining in this thread , it's *SQUEE* hilarious.

Maybe I am missing something that you see ( ), but I honestly think there is very little whining in the thread. I think there is heated discussion, and certainly opposing views reflecting something more than a binary take on things, but whining? That seems a little insulting.

[Elveen]

I agree with J about the passion, both good and bad.
I also agree with Rico.
I CAN totally see the frustration about this book, especially from the digital readers. And I see Ed's perspective on the digital issue. But also understand he is in the paper business, so his perspective is slanted ( but I still agree). I also agree with Tim, that comics (floppies, uggh hate that term) are the way to read.

I love the opinions, both good and bad.
I thought this was a good idea, now I think it is brilliant.
This program that VEI has done has spilled out of this board to other places. And that is an outstanding success. VEI needs HEAT. For me, just about anything they can do to get it, do it. ( now I don't want Grimm fairy tales covers or mature content) but whatever VEI can do to get attention.
Do it.

That being said. I DO see the perspective of the peeps complaining about the "possible difficulty" of reading this story with a comic book in their hand. I think it will all work out, maybe it will not.
Maybe some of you will get so frustrated that you can't own this comic book for what you want to pay for it, or obtain it is the way you want it that you will drop all VEI product and leave.
That would be a bummer for sure, and you KNOW VEI does not want that. But.....

If the amazingly successful people running VEI decided that this is the way to go, the way to potentially grow their business, attract new readers, get a bigger market share; if this is the next innovation they are going to usher into the industry, then I believe in them. They have earned a large hunk of EQUITY with me.

Bottom line for me.
THe NUMBER #1 thing I want from VEI is new stories, for as long as possible.
If I have to not get a certain book or variant or promo item, that sucks, but oh well.
I don't have everything, I don't even have everything that I want.
But I do have new Valiant stories with these characters that I love.
Why?
Because the same dudes that decided to create this story variant program have also given me the new stories; some of the absolute BEST stories (not comic books, stories) that I have ever read.
So good on you; Dino, Warren, Fred, Hunter, Atom, Peter, Gavin (and the rest).
These dudes have done the dream, one that many, many dudes (and you know who you are) loudly doubted they would ever do.
Maybe this is a misstep, maybe they only get some loyal fams with a bad taste in their mouth and don't get the: growth, attention, new readers, "heat" that they are hoping for.
Oops for them.
But for now I will enjoy (mostly) the next 20 pages of his thread and continue to support and believe in the leadership of his company.
And lastly......

Listen up VEI (I know you read the forum).... Keep pushing the envelope. Don't settle, forge forward. Trust yourselves, do he new and the risky, don't follow, lead the industry.

Ok. Carry on.

[Ricomortis]

21 pages of this?

If you guys talked up your LCS, fellow readers, or this forum about the positive things this company has done as you have complained about a few books it wouldn't bother me...

Oh please..... This board has done nothing but talk up the positive things this company has done for as long as they've been in existence. I have never seen a group of fans go out of their way to hype up and promote a comic book company as I have seen here. But as soon as someone questions something or has negativity about something VEI does they're either doom and gloomers or spoiled entitled brats.

[turbod16]

I love reading all whining in this thread , it's *SQUEE* hilarious.

Maybe I am missing something that you see ( ), but I honestly think there is very little whining in the thread. I think there is heated discussion, and certainly opposing views reflecting something more than a binary take on things, but whining? That seems a little insulting.

It's whining.

[Tim]

21 pages of this?

If you guys talked up your LCS, fellow readers, or this forum about the positive things this company has done as you have complained about a few books it wouldn't bother me...

Oh please..... This board has done nothing but talk up the positive things this company has done for as long as they've been in existence. I have never seen a group of fans go out of their way to hype up and promote a comic book company as I have seen here. But as soon as someone questions something or has negativity about something VEI does they're either doom and gloomers or spoiled entitled brats.

Intelligent post! How long did that take you?

[leonmallett]

I love reading all whining in this thread , it's *SQUEE* hilarious.

Maybe I am missing something that you see ( ), but I honestly think there is very little whining in the thread. I think there is heated discussion, and certainly opposing views reflecting something more than a binary take on things, but whining? That seems a little insulting.

It's whining.

Really?

[turbod16]

I love reading all whining in this thread , it's *SQUEE* hilarious.

Maybe I am missing something that you see ( ), but I honestly think there is very little whining in the thread. I think there is heated discussion, and certainly opposing views reflecting something more than a binary take on things, but whining? That seems a little insulting.

It's whining.

Really?

Yes

[leonmallett]

I love reading all whining in this thread , it's *SQUEE* hilarious.

Maybe I am missing something that you see ( ), but I honestly think there is very little whining in the thread. I think there is heated discussion, and certainly opposing views reflecting something more than a binary take on things, but whining? That seems a little insulting.

It's whining.

Really?

Yes

In what sense? Every post? Every post that differs in opinion from yours?