I might be out on Valiant

[drmirage]

So with that being said.... When is Round #4 coming up?

It is incumbent upon us to realize that what all of us loved at the re-invention of the company in 2012 is still there: Dinesh and his team, a talented staff, a long term vision, and a single minded dedication to quality, all the while being the most fan friendly company in the industry today. With all of that in place, it is ENTIRELY within their capacity to be all that they were and even more.

Have they strayed a little? No doubt. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I refer to those as "growing pains". While we all have been invested in their success for what seems a long time, we need to reflect that in actuality they are not even 4 years old and during that time they have come from the oblivion of nothingness to a success that could not have been envisioned in 2012. This is nothing short of remarkable.

We're all aware of the missteps (at least as we see them) and there is little point in rehashing these. Instead, why not focus on the extremely positive things they have brought back to us, the diehard fans. Are there too many variants? It sure does seem like it and I'm sure that as the lack of participation in sales of these continues, that message will be heard and a change will come about. Will we all miss XO? Most will indeed. But does VEI have a whole stable of exciting things coming? Of course they do.

Change is never comfortable and often not welcome, whether personally or professionally. By our very nature, we resist it. However, we should remember that change can also herald good things as well. In this case, I choose to look forward to it and genuinely make the offer to VEI to help them in any small way I can to help them be what all of us hope and wish for them because all of our interests are aligned. We ALL want Dinesh and crew to succeed.

Reduce buying what I don't like? It's a simple and solid idea. But abandon what I love when it gets a little tough? No way. If someone truly cares as we say we do, the best thing we can do is sincerely offer suggestions and help where and how we can. That's where I stand and I choose to think that upon reflection most everyone will admit that they also want to help. Leaving solves nothing, but staying and all helping work toward a goal can be an incredible force for positive good. Just think about it

[Dallow Spicer1]

As others have said, the best advice is to but what you like. Buying stuff you don't really enjoy leads to feelings of resentment. I bought all of the Acclaim stuff back in the day through blind loyalty and n the hope the books would get better...they didn't! I stopped reading comics at that point and only restarted when I stumbled across the VEI relaunch of XO which hooked me back in.

Whilst I really want VEI to succeed I don't buy the books I don't enjoy. I usually try them but if they don't maimtain my interest then I drop them (Shadowman, Q&W) and perhaps buy them digitally when on sale (A&A, Timewalker). By paying half price I don't feel bad about checking them out.

That said, I DO think the last 12 months has been the BEST yet for quality of stories. With the exception of some missteps (BOD, Valiant #3, Dead Drop) most off the output has been excellent: Imperium, XO, Rai, Ninjak, Bloodshot Reborn, Fall of books etc. I don't like everything VEI puts out and it would be nice if Dino made occasional appearances on the board to at least let us know he's hearing thoughts of the fans (both good and bad). I think the people in charge of VEI are doing a great job mostly, I remain as confident as ever that the future's bright for the Valiant U.

Hang in there Dunlow!

[slack]

I'll admit, at first, I thought the review drives were a bit to pushy, trying to make valiant look bigger than it was. But I came to see it for what (I think) it is:
if you've read and enjoyed these books, and you want to help the company continue to entertain you... Great there are some places to go review them, thanks.
If not, don't.

[bygranddesign]

I'm still in love with Valiant

But the romance is fading a bit ... I need a few sparks to rekindle the magic.

Here is a few things that would help

1) FVL back on a new title. The 12 issue run of Ivar was pure magic -- we need FVL back big time.

2) 4001 A.D needs to deliver the goods. Ultimately Book of Death was a let down. The oneshot issues were good but the main story was not great. The art was spotty. The story fell flat. And i was just left confused about what thwarting Master Darque did to the timeline and the future stories. The whole time travel aspect of The Valiant>>BoD is interesting but left us with too many unanswered questions/loose threads .... 4001 AD needs to be solid throughout and more straight forward. Introduce some new characters to get our collective blood pumping. Give us a kick *SQUEE* resolution that gets us excited about the direction of Rai and the 4001 universe

3) Concrete. Movie. News. We need some now. Bloodshot is supposed to come out in 2017 -- we need to hear some more teasers at this point.

4) Lock Dysart up -- Get him on a new series where he can go crazy and do his thing. He is too talented a writer to lose.

5) Bring back Harbinger. Bring back Pete vs. Harada. Bring back the Renegades. It would be great if Dysart can come back to the series but even if he wants to move on -- the series needs to come back.

6) Britannia needs to be the real deal. If this is the Valiant female icon -- lets stop with the speculation, lets see what they got. I'm ready!

7) They need to establish tighter continuity between all the titles. This is a tough one because you also don't want to restrict a writers creativity and freedom. But there needs to be that balance. If a writer takes over a character -- they need to understand the full history of the character and stay true to the characters tone and abilities.

[Elveen]

I can't see how the movie comes out in 2017.

I'm feeling that it is being moved back. That being said, I am still 100% confident that it will come out.

This is just me putting various half conversations, images, and things together. I have NEVER been told that straight out.

I believe that there are multiple media things being planned and in various stages of development.

I DO know that meetings and dinners and all are taking place.

[eschnit]

Anyone think perhaps there's method to the madness? 4001 is a potential gamechanger for the books/characters as is the movie deal. The universe of characters is not deep enough to just finish off a series and leave it behind. But sometimes companies in a growing phase have to try different things to move the ball forward. In the end 4001 will likely change the entire Valiant Universe and what the buyer/reader/collector has an appetite for. And though Aric, Shadowman, etc. may have an alt media future, Harbinger and Bloodshot come first. If the platform isn't big enough for all at once, some will get focus more than others. Remember Bloodshot #1 sold 850,000 copies 25 years ago. Today's issues are selling 7-8k or if it's a hot series 12-15k, with the exception of BoD, Unity, and we'll see where the 4001 and Divinity II numbers are. I'm sure they don't want to alienate the hardcore 5000 or so readers out there, but the market for these stories is vast. Dinesh and company haven't lost sight of the prize is my best guess, which is Marvel 2.0, a company that sold out to Disney for $40 billion, and whose characters and stories are almost universally known.

[Tony_H]

When I'm feeling squeezed between work pressures and dreary news from beyond the ambit of my personal life, Valiant has been, and will remain for the foreseeable future, my número uno destination for a mental escape that doesn't leave me with the feeling that my brain has dribbled out of my ears.

I came aboard with VEI and don't see a decline of quality in their creative output. Heck, yes, I'll miss XO and Imperium, but I think Dr. Mirage, Divinity, Rai, Bloodshot, Gilad, Ivar and Ninjak have all been great over the last year or so.

[Dr Noel]

I'm still in love with Valiant

But the romance is fading a bit ... I need a few sparks to rekindle the magic.

Here is a few things that would help

1) FVL back on a new title. The 12 issue run of Ivar was pure magic -- we need FVL back big time.

2) 4001 A.D needs to deliver the goods. Ultimately Book of Death was a let down. The oneshot issues were good but the main story was not great. The art was spotty. The story fell flat. And i was just left confused about what thwarting Master Darque did to the timeline and the future stories. The whole time travel aspect of The Valiant>>BoD is interesting but left us with too many unanswered questions/loose threads .... 4001 AD needs to be solid throughout and more straight forward. Introduce some new characters to get our collective blood pumping. Give us a kick *SQUEE* resolution that gets us excited about the direction of Rai and the 4001 universe

3) Concrete. Movie. News. We need some now. Bloodshot is supposed to come out in 2017 -- we need to hear some more teasers at this point.

4) Lock Dysart up -- Get him on a new series where he can go crazy and do his thing. He is too talented a writer to lose.

5) Bring back Harbinger. Bring back Pete vs. Harada. Bring back the Renegades. It would be great if Dysart can come back to the series but even if he wants to move on -- the series needs to come back.

6) Britannia needs to be the real deal. If this is the Valiant female icon -- lets stop with the speculation, lets see what they got. I'm ready!

7) They need to establish tighter continuity between all the titles. This is a tough one because you also don't want to restrict a writers creativity and freedom. But there needs to be that balance. If a writer takes over a character -- they need to understand the full history of the character and stay true to the characters tone and abilities.

+1 to all of this. Well said

[hunter_peterson]

Huh. I'm actually really into this stage of Valiant.to each his own I guess.

Though honestly, if all the fans buy all the books forever, we'll probably never have more of them a month than we do now. Because they'll all sell roughly the same for ages and ages. A more selective fanbase would create more need.to diversify the line, which means more books. And I would lvoe me some more VEI books!

[Watchtower]

Huh. I'm actually really into this stage of Valiant.to each his own I guess.

Though honestly, if all the fans buy all the books forever, we'll probably never have more of them a month than we do now. Because they'll all sell roughly the same for ages and ages. A more selective fanbase would create more need.to diversify the line, which means more books. And I would lvoe me some more VEI books!

Wouldn't that be an argument for reducing the number of books sold, since a more selective fanbase would generally consume less and thus it would be more efficient to cut down production?

[jmatt]

I think that perhaps part of the issue is that the bloom is off the rose, so to speak. A few years ago, when the VEI universe was still young, we could all still dream of what it would be and were waiting for an explosion of sales to move the company into a position of relative prominence with perhaps 5% of the market.

But now the honeymoon is over and the fanatical reader base is settling into the day-to-day reality of the marriage. Some moments will be great (like Fall of Harbinger), much of it will be okay and occasionally things will be disappointing (Dead Drop). This is natural and to be expected.

I'm excited for the 4001 stuff and the new characters. New is always good because we have no idea what to expect, unlike a character such as Aram where you know exactly what he's all about.

Ninjak, BS:R, Ivar, Rai and Imperium have been great. EW and Shadowman have been mismanaged. X-O is okay but nowhere near as great as it could be.

And I agree, the universe has been a little less cross-connected than you would think, but Ninjak abounds in various titles and Divinity's appearance in Imperium was fantastic.

But I'm still reading and having fun and that's all that matters.

[hunter_peterson]

I'm still in love with Valiant

But the romance is fading a bit ... I need a few sparks to rekindle the magic.

Here is a few things that would help

1) FVL back on a new title. The 12 issue run of Ivar was pure magic -- we need FVL back big time.

2) 4001 A.D needs to deliver the goods. Ultimately Book of Death was a let down. The oneshot issues were good but the main story was not great. The art was spotty. The story fell flat. And i was just left confused about what thwarting Master Darque did to the timeline and the future stories. The whole time travel aspect of The Valiant>>BoD is interesting but left us with too many unanswered questions/loose threads .... 4001 AD needs to be solid throughout and more straight forward. Introduce some new characters to get our collective blood pumping. Give us a kick *SQUEE* resolution that gets us excited about the direction of Rai and the 4001 universe

3) Concrete. Movie. News. We need some now. Bloodshot is supposed to come out in 2017 -- we need to hear some more teasers at this point.

4) Lock Dysart up -- Get him on a new series where he can go crazy and do his thing. He is too talented a writer to lose.

5) Bring back Harbinger. Bring back Pete vs. Harada. Bring back the Renegades. It would be great if Dysart can come back to the series but even if he wants to move on -- the series needs to come back.

6) Britannia needs to be the real deal. If this is the Valiant female icon -- lets stop with the speculation, lets see what they got. I'm ready!

7) They need to establish tighter continuity between all the titles. This is a tough one because you also don't want to restrict a writers creativity and freedom. But there needs to be that balance. If a writer takes over a character -- they need to understand the full history of the character and stay true to the characters tone and abilities.

+1 to all of this. Well said

Though this also sounds nice.

[jmatt]

Ultimately Book of Death was a let down. The oneshot issues were good but the main story was not great. The art was spotty. The story fell flat. And i was just left confused about what thwarting Master Darque did to the timeline and the future stories. The whole time travel aspect of The Valiant>>BoD is interesting but left us with too many unanswered questions/loose threads .... 4001 AD needs to be solid throughout and more straight forward.

I agree. It was enjoyable but the chronology is a sloppy mess. I'm still not sure what it portends. Or doesn't. The 'Fall of' books and LotG were good to great, but the main storyline in BoD left me confused.

And the splash page with all of the unknown or altered characters (like the Hulk Bloodshot)... use them or don't bother. I came away feeling a little cheated.

It's as if you took VH1 Unity, threw away 80% of it and boiled it down to four issues with a page declaring "And all of these characters perished...". Or didn't. If they even existed. Or won't.

[Shadowman99]

I can see what Dunlow's saying about how the universe seems a bit fragmented at the moment.

- Rai is off in the future
- Bloodshot is off in the future in a different place
- Eternal Warrior is in Hell
- Shadowman and Ninjak are in the Deadside
- Imperium is current day in one place
- Faith is current day in another place
- Dr. Mirage is current day in yet another place
- XO Manowar is current day in another place still

= These books aren't obviously crossing over and creating the sense of a tight, shared universe.

As it stands, I think VEI is keeping the universe tied primarily using Bloodshot, Rai and EW by referencing past events to maintain a sense of a shared universe where events have repercussions that ripple into and affect the future, such as the walle dcities created by GATE and the Livewire that fuels New Japan, etc: THIS is where VEI are keeping the universe coherant, and I think it's really *SQUEE* clever.

Having said that, the 'current day' books definitely seem disparate, which is weakening the effect of cohesion in the overall universe.

To be honest, although I recognise it is regarded as one of VEI's 'strong qualities', providing a sense of a shared universe isn't necessarily required at all times: there's no rule that states VEI MUST do this or they're 'failing' to provide quality media. Is it absolutely impossible for a reader to read say, Faith or Dr. Mirage and enjoy the comic as a stand-alone title? Is it absolutely *required* that at some point in these comics they tip the hat to some other current or previous VEI comic in order for the reader to be able to enjoy them? No: that's idiocy. But would it help reader's enjoyment to acknowledge a shared universe on a regular basis? It would seem so.


For what it's worth, I think the quality of the comics is through the roof at the moment: intelligent and entertaining reads the lot of them by my opinion, but I agree with whoever said that buying VEI comics was more enjoyable when they first launched because of the sense of stability that the comics and universe had: the impression was that XO was here to stay; Shadowman was here to stay; Harbinger was here to stay, etc... and these comics formed 'pillars' that other minis could come and go around, with these handful of comics maintaining coherancy in the universe and a direction to keep it moving forward in. I'm not sure VEI have that effect in their books any longer with only Bloodshot forming a lone pillar, and even that's in a future timeline now The universe definitely felt tighter to me when this handful of pillars was keeping the universe strong, rather than the universe in its current state with the seemingly regularly-changing lineup (although regular change is good for maintaining variety and keeping the press on their toes and promoting the Valiant line, so at least it's got that going for it)



At the end of the day, VEI are trying their best to deliver an entertainment media: as a consumer if you don't like what they're putting out don't buy it, it's as simple as that. Project your own opinions and desires on to the comics all you want: it won't change what's in the pages and at the end of the day VEI are running their business in the way that they see best to make a profit and sustain themselves as a company, and they can do it without you as long as there's someone else out there who *is* enjoying what they're doing and buying the books and merch.

My

[BugsySig]

I'm still in love with Valiant

But the romance is fading a bit ... I need a few sparks to rekindle the magic.

Here is a few things that would help

1) FVL back on a new title. The 12 issue run of Ivar was pure magic -- we need FVL back big time.

2) 4001 A.D needs to deliver the goods. Ultimately Book of Death was a let down. The oneshot issues were good but the main story was not great. The art was spotty. The story fell flat. And i was just left confused about what thwarting Master Darque did to the timeline and the future stories. The whole time travel aspect of The Valiant>>BoD is interesting but left us with too many unanswered questions/loose threads .... 4001 AD needs to be solid throughout and more straight forward. Introduce some new characters to get our collective blood pumping. Give us a kick *SQUEE* resolution that gets us excited about the direction of Rai and the 4001 universe

3) Concrete. Movie. News. We need some now. Bloodshot is supposed to come out in 2017 -- we need to hear some more teasers at this point.

4) Lock Dysart up -- Get him on a new series where he can go crazy and do his thing. He is too talented a writer to lose.

5) Bring back Harbinger. Bring back Pete vs. Harada. Bring back the Renegades. It would be great if Dysart can come back to the series but even if he wants to move on -- the series needs to come back.

6) Britannia needs to be the real deal. If this is the Valiant female icon -- lets stop with the speculation, lets see what they got. I'm ready!

7) They need to establish tighter continuity between all the titles. This is a tough one because you also don't want to restrict a writers creativity and freedom. But there needs to be that balance. If a writer takes over a character -- they need to understand the full history of the character and stay true to the characters tone and abilities.

+1 to all of this. Well said

Though this also sounds nice.

+1

I'd also say VEI needs to have 4-5 staple books that do not constantly restart or go on hiatus between iterations. XO, Harbinger and Bloodshot for sure. Maybe A&A, Shadowman, Ninjak, Rai and/or Eternal Warrior as well. Then surround those with another 3-4 rotating miniseries. It's very hard to say you have a connected universe when you don't have (as of XO #50) any continuing series anchoring that universe.

[tchalla8]

I'm still in love with Valiant

But the romance is fading a bit ... I need a few sparks to rekindle the magic.

Here is a few things that would help

1) FVL back on a new title. The 12 issue run of Ivar was pure magic -- we need FVL back big time.

2) 4001 A.D needs to deliver the goods. Ultimately Book of Death was a let down. The oneshot issues were good but the main story was not great. The art was spotty. The story fell flat. And i was just left confused about what thwarting Master Darque did to the timeline and the future stories. The whole time travel aspect of The Valiant>>BoD is interesting but left us with too many unanswered questions/loose threads .... 4001 AD needs to be solid throughout and more straight forward. Introduce some new characters to get our collective blood pumping. Give us a kick *SQUEE* resolution that gets us excited about the direction of Rai and the 4001 universe

3) Concrete. Movie. News. We need some now. Bloodshot is supposed to come out in 2017 -- we need to hear some more teasers at this point.

4) Lock Dysart up -- Get him on a new series where he can go crazy and do his thing. He is too talented a writer to lose.

5) Bring back Harbinger. Bring back Pete vs. Harada. Bring back the Renegades. It would be great if Dysart can come back to the series but even if he wants to move on -- the series needs to come back.

6) Britannia needs to be the real deal. If this is the Valiant female icon -- lets stop with the speculation, lets see what they got. I'm ready!

7) They need to establish tighter continuity between all the titles. This is a tough one because you also don't want to restrict a writers creativity and freedom. But there needs to be that balance. If a writer takes over a character -- they need to understand the full history of the character and stay true to the characters tone and abilities.

+1 to all of this. Well said

Though this also sounds nice.

+1

I'd also say VEI needs to have 4-5 staple books that do not constantly restart or go on hiatus between iterations. XO, Harbinger and Bloodshot for sure. Maybe A&A, Shadowman, Ninjak, Rai and/or Eternal Warrior as well. Then surround those with another 3-4 rotating miniseries. It's very hard to say you have a connected universe when you don't have (as of XO #50) any continuing series anchoring that universe.

Agreed. The excitement around the rebirth of Valiant was around the core characters that we all had such fondness for 20+ years ago. And suddenly we have no X-O, no Shadowman, no Harbinger kids, A&A series is intermittent. Same with Gilad. Bloodshot is the only reliable character it seems. Mostly they just come and then they go. We have next to none of the anchors of the Valiant universe with any degree of consistency. I came back to Valiant for these characters specifically, and I don't feel like I really have them anymore.

[Dallow Spicer1]

No inter connected universe??

Ninjak is in XO now.
Shadowman was in Ninjak last month.
The Vine were just in Imperium.
Hard Corps are in Imperium now.
Torque and @x are both in the Faith mini.
Eternal Warrior was in the last issue of Rai.
We had Unity up until recently with lots of character cross over.

I think there's more than enough cross overs happening. In fact I hate looking back at VH1 and seeing XO, Turok and Bloodshot making gratuitous appearances here, there and everywhere!

Valiant Universe is plenty connected IMO.

[Watchtower]

No inter connected universe??

Ninjak is in XO now.
Shadowman was in Ninjak last month.
The Vine were just in Imperium.
Hard Corps are in Imperium now.
Torque and @x are both in the Faith mini.
Eternal Warrior was in the last issue of Rai.
We had Unity up until recently with lots of character cross over.

I think there's more than enough cross overs happening. In fact I hate looking back at VH1 and seeing XO, Turok and Bloodshot making gratuitous appearances here, there and everywhere!

Valiant Universe is plenty connected IMO.

Unity ended at around the same time that Book of Death did, and that's served as a bit of a double-whammy, since Livewire, H.A.R.D. Corps, and to a lesser extent Divinity have all been thrown into this limbo state where they don't really belong anywhere right now.

4001 is still fundamentally separated from the rest of the line.

Torque, @x, and Faith are all holdovers from Harbinger ending and Peter going into hiding, and if anything have become separate from Harada.

Shadowman's appearance in Ninjak comes after going MIA for about a year and a half following End Times, and with Siege of King's Castle upcoming Shadowman's looking to be sitting in his cell for at least a while.

I'll give you Ninjak and the Vine, though in Ninjak's case he seems to be trying to be Valiant's Wolverine.

[bygranddesign]

In regards to the interconnected-ness of the universe. There have definitely been some character crossover.

My issue with it ... is that it doesn't have that tightness of the original universe ... where it seemed everyone was on the same page, following the same Jim Shooter blueprint. When it comes to tone, characterization, feel...

Let me backtrack a little and say I don't want it to be the dictatorship type tight continuity that Shooter had ... I don't think that it is realistic in this situation and i don't want to squash creativity. But i'd like to have a feeling that there is a grand design in play. That all of these forces/threats/events/characters are woven into something that is part of a grand design.

I think there is a plan (but its hard to make complete sense of it at this point). I think there are big ideas, big puzzle pieces that have yet to be revealed. There are loose threads that do have answers but they will be answered in time. I have faith in that. But I also feel like certain characters have been written into a corner and instead of addressing it -- its ignored. Like Archer basically has god-like abilities yet he doesn't use them. This has not been explained sufficiently(I haven't read the new A&A so I apologize if this has been addressed). I love FVL but he wrote Archer into a bit of a corner. There should be a way to limit his access to the Akashic Records in order to make him less god-like. Why use martial arts and a crossbow when you can access Psiot powers at will? That is just one example.

So my issue when it comes to continuity/plot holes/issues is not that there is not enough crossovers. It has to do with tone and characterization and a feeling of a grand plan. I feel like there are 4-5 writers who are creating this great universe but they have very loose connections between them.

Like I said -- I have faith in the plan. I'm on board the train. This specific criticism is a bit wishy washy. It's a feeling that sometimes i get and can't shake. It's hard to describe. Its a feeling though that can be remedied. That's why I want FVL back so bad -- he seemed to connect the dots better than anyone.

[Keith]

Speaking of plans:

[bygranddesign]

Thanks for posting that Keith

A nice reminder of the awesome stuff still to come

[wwise03]

I'm still on board for everything Valiant, though I seem to remember enjoying the universe more when Harbinger was around. Where is Pete Stanchek and crew?

If we don't get Harbinger back, it would be nice if more books followed the Harbinger/Imperium model where it seems there were less defined arcs. The 4-issue arc is getting stale to me. We need either more one shots or more long form narratives. I don't care what Robert Venditti and Matt Kindt say, X-O Manowar and Ninjak are being shoehorned into 4-issue arcs at the expense of long form storytelling. I hope Ninjak changes up the formula before it grows stale in the same way X-O Manowar did.

[lorddunlow]

I'm still on board for everything Valiant, though I seem to remember enjoying the universe more when Harbinger was around. Where is Pete Stanchek and crew?

If we don't get Harbinger back, it would be nice if more books followed the Harbinger/Imperium model where it seems there were less defined arcs. The 4-issue arc is getting stale to me. We need either more one shots or more long form narratives. I don't care what Robert Venditti and Matt Kindt say, X-O Manowar and Ninjak are being shoehorned into 4-issue arcs at the expense of long form storytelling. I hope Ninjak changes up the formula before it grows stale in the same way X-O Manowar did.

This sort of puts my opinion on the matter into better perspective. I think the company helmed by Dino and directed by Warren is in good hands and they know what they're doing. I think the quality of writers/artists is amazing and have wonderful ideas. I think the interaction of the writers especially and the editorial staff is where there is a problem, and without knowing what goes on in that part of the company, I can't say what the actual problem is or how it needs to be fixed.

I'm a basketball fan. I'm a Memphis Grizzlies basketball fan. This provides an excellent analogy:

We went to the Western Conference finals 2 years ago. We were the only legitimate threat to the Warriors last season (and the fact that our final games are against them means the league thought it would be an exciting end to the NBA season to have the 2 best teams in the West rehash that rivalry). This year, we've have the most players on an NBA roster in a single year and just keep losing in horrendous ways. But we're very likely still going to make the playoffs. We've made the playoffs more consecutive years than any team in the league other than the Spurs. We will very likely make some good moves in the offseason (and have players recover from injury) and probably make another playoffs appearance. The conversation year in/year out is "do we have a championship team?" The answer is "not really". We have a very good team, but we don't have a great team. There is a thread talking about young NBA talent on here. It's a good discussion. Memphis doesn't have any that is being developed (at least not until everyone else was injured). There are tons of really bad lottery teams that have a lot of great talent just waiting to get a few more pieces to be the next Warriors (they sucked not too long ago). They will rise to greatness. If the Grizzlies continue as they have they might keep making the playoffs, but exiting in the 1st or 2nd round eternally.

VEI seems to be the Grizzlies. Really good. I like them better than other companies. But they just aren't making the moves needed to achieve greatness.

Just like the Grizzlies are MY team and I love them warts and all, VEI is MY comics company that I love. But they keep making me sad. I want a title run, Valiant. If you can't give me that, then let's rebuild and try again.

[Elveen]

I'm still on board for everything Valiant, though I seem to remember enjoying the universe more when Harbinger was around. Where is Pete Stanchek and crew?

If we don't get Harbinger back, it would be nice if more books followed the Harbinger/Imperium model where it seems there were less defined arcs. The 4-issue arc is getting stale to me. We need either more one shots or more long form narratives. I don't care what Robert Venditti and Matt Kindt say, X-O Manowar and Ninjak are being shoehorned into 4-issue arcs at the expense of long form storytelling. I hope Ninjak changes up the formula before it grows stale in the same way X-O Manowar did.

This sort of puts my opinion on the matter into better perspective. I think the company helmed by Dino and directed by Warren is in good hands and they know what they're doing. I think the quality of writers/artists is amazing and have wonderful ideas. I think the interaction of the writers especially and the editorial staff is where there is a problem, and without knowing what goes on in that part of the company, I can't say what the actual problem is or how it needs to be fixed.

I'm a basketball fan. I'm a Memphis Grizzlies basketball fan. This provides an excellent analogy:

We went to the Western Conference finals 2 years ago. We were the only legitimate threat to the Warriors last season (and the fact that our final games are against them means the league thought it would be an exciting end to the NBA season to have the 2 best teams in the West rehash that rivalry). This year, we've have the most players on an NBA roster in a single year and just keep losing in horrendous ways. But we're very likely still going to make the playoffs. We've made the playoffs more consecutive years than any team in the league other than the Spurs. We will very likely make some good moves in the offseason (and have players recover from injury) and probably make another playoffs appearance. The conversation year in/year out is "do we have a championship team?" The answer is "not really". We have a very good team, but we don't have a great team. There is a thread talking about young NBA talent on here. It's a good discussion. Memphis doesn't have any that is being developed (at least not until everyone else was injured). There are tons of really bad lottery teams that have a lot of great talent just waiting to get a few more pieces to be the next Warriors (they sucked not too long ago). They will rise to greatness. If the Grizzlies continue as they have they might keep making the playoffs, but exiting in the 1st or 2nd round eternally.

VEI seems to be the Grizzlies. Really good. I like them better than other companies. But they just aren't making the moves needed to achieve greatness.

Just like the Grizzlies are MY team and I love them warts and all, VEI is MY comics company that I love. But they keep making me sad. I want a title run, Valiant. If you can't give me that, then let's rebuild and try again.

And I guess I think VEI HAVE "won the title". Maybe not right at this moment, but I think Harby and X-O, Harbinger Wars, parts of A&A, (just to name a few) have been great. I also think Armor Hunters was really really good.

I totally get your example with the Grizz, but i do disagree with what VEI has done.

But it is all good. I like the analogy.

[depluto]

Marvel is still Golden State. Shoo-in for the crown. DC is the Cavs, with all their in-house problems and reboots (even though they have LeBron/Batman, they won't win *SQUEE*).