The Valiant #4 Discussion

[erwinrafael]

The payoff is so freakingly underwhelming consudering the costs. You killed off a refreshingly new character in Kay McHenry for this? You removed Bloodshot's capabilities for this? You made all VEI characters team up for this? And you made use of the Boon for this?

What a joke. Really, I am sticking to my vow before that I would just stay within the FVL and Dysart corner of VEI. Then I would just pick up the Nord, Perez and Suayan books.

What a disappointment.

I kind of agree. It's a shame to just fridge a character we never really saw and replace her with a character we'll probably never see again. As for Bloodshot I have a feeling he'll be getting his nanites back at some point since that's kind of his thing, removing them otherwise seems less like a development and more like a writer trying to make him easier to write.

I could never see what brilliance other people can see in Kindt's writing. This series is so self-indulgent that it's only point is to forward some plot points that Kindt and Lemire would use in their own books. My being upset about the death of Kay Mchenry is not a sign of good writing. Kindt and Lemire did not make me like Kay, FVL did. Kindt and Lemire just made a story to forward their own books that are not going anywhere without this gimmick of a story.

Oh, I have a cool undefeatable enemy in mind so that I can be credited of thinking of an idea of how to get all the VEI heroes in one series. But how do we take him down if he's so undefeatable that all the heroes can not stop him? Oh, I don't know. Let's just use the deus ex machina machine created by the brilliant mind of a more creative writer, and then let us not explain any specifics of how it worked. As long as it forwards the plot of two books I am writing.

Oh, I do not know how to make a character with strong healing properties interesting because I can not think of how anybody can challenge him. But I do know how to write grim and gritty characters with a chip on their shoulder. Can we find a way to remove his healing properties so that I can write the character I know how to write?

Let's kill off a promising character in the process so that we can give some realism to our story with a killer goat and a glue-sniffing punk on the radar of the intelligence community as on-call superpowered operatives. You know, Brian Michael Bendis does this all the time. Kill of characters so that the story would become more believable. Hmmm...who to kill? Oh, you have an interesting character that has been shelved because only the original creator knows how to write anything close to interesting about her? We'll take it!

[dornwolf]

The payoff is so freakingly underwhelming consudering the costs. You killed off a refreshingly new character in Kay McHenry for this? You removed Bloodshot's capabilities for this? You made all VEI characters team up for this? And you made use of the Boon for this?

What a joke. Really, I am sticking to my vow before that I would just stay within the FVL and Dysart corner of VEI. Then I would just pick up the Nord, Perez and Suayan books.

What a disappointment.

I kind of agree. It's a shame to just fridge a character we never really saw and replace her with a character we'll probably never see again. As for Bloodshot I have a feeling he'll be getting his nanites back at some point since that's kind of his thing, removing them otherwise seems less like a development and more like a writer trying to make him easier to write.

I could never see what brilliance other people can see in Kindt's writing. This series is so self-indulgent that it's only point is to forward some plot points that Kindt and Lemire would use in their own books. My being upset about the death of Kay Mchenry is not a sign of good writing. Kindt and Lemire did not make me like Kay, FVL did. Kindt and Lemire just made a story to forward their own books that are not going anywhere without this gimmick of a story.

Oh, I have a cool undefeatable enemy in mind so that I can be credited of thinking of an idea of how to get all the VEI heroes in one series. But how do we take him down if he's so undefeatable that all the heroes can not stop him? Oh, I don't know. Let's just use the deus ex machina machine created by the brilliant mind of a more creative writer, and then let us not explain any specifics of how it worked. As long as it forwards the plot of two books I am writing.

Oh, I do not know how to make a character with strong healing properties interesting because I can not think of how anybody can challenge him. But I do know how to write grim and gritty characters with a chip on their shoulder. Can we find a way to remove his healing properties so that I can write the character I know how to write?

Let's kill off a promising character in the process so that we can give some realism to our story with a killer goat and a glue-sniffing punk on the radar of the intelligence community as on-call superpowered operatives. You know, Brian Michael Bendis does this all the time. Kill of characters so that the story would become more believable. Hmmm...who to kill? Oh, you have an interesting character that has been shelved because only the original creator knows how to write anything close to interesting about her? We'll take it!

I think right at the end here is where you nailed it for me. I think what I dislike about this was that it felt like such a Marvel/DC move. Invent an over the top villain that can single handily beat everything tossed at it, kill off a character too make it look strong, deus ex machina the defeat and pimp the spin off.

[erwinrafael]

I think right at the end here is where you nailed it for me. I think what I dislike about this was that it felt like such a Marvel/DC move. Invent an over the top villain that can single handily beat everything tossed at it, kill off a character too make it look strong, deus ex machina the defeat and pimp the spin off.

Exactly. The payoffs that came out of this thing are 1) the legitimation of the Geomancer in Kindt's Rai story, 2) the foundation for Lemire's version of Bloodshot, which does not have any resemblance of what Bloodshot was supposed to be about (nanites, healing powers, implanted memories). It's like they finally buried Swiercynzski's ghost, whose outstanding first arc still hovers over their head as a high point that they never reached again. It's not a "woah, the world has changed" payoff that happened at the end of the Harbinger run, or the Armor Hunters event. The payoff here is small.

And what are the costs? A character with a lot of potential killed. Historic first meetings between VEI characters scrapped for a generic superhero team up that did not make a lot of sense. VEI heroes being shown as incompetent with their combined might and fighting prowess not being able to take down a generic enemy that has no character. And, finally, ruining the highly original time travel paradox story of The Boon. A wonderful piece of genius paradoxical storytelling rarely seen in comic books, ruined for the sake of a deus ex machina solution that VEI's messiah writer would never explain.

To top it all off, they have outstanding Paolo Rivera art wasted on this story.

Pardon me for the negativity I have been foisting on this thread, but I never thought that I would be driven out of VEI after religiously collecting all VEI issues up to the Armor Hunters' event last year. I could never understand why the keys of VEI have been entrusted to a writer who can not write properly the continuity even in his own title. I hate it. I hate that I am following only two VEI books now after I swore at the start that I am going all in for this company. Comic books are a fortune here, you know? The cost of one issue can feed me for a whole day. Damn it, I am so disappointed right now, I think I would return to writing my thesis.

[Overman]

The payoff is so freakingly underwhelming consudering the costs. You killed off a refreshingly new character in Kay McHenry for this? You removed Bloodshot's capabilities for this? You made all VEI characters team up for this? And you made use of the Boon for this?

What a joke. Really, I am sticking to my vow before that I would just stay within the FVL and Dysart corner of VEI. Then I would just pick up the Nord, Perez and Suayan books.

What a disappointment.

I kind of agree. It's a shame to just fridge a character we never really saw and replace her with a character we'll probably never see again. As for Bloodshot I have a feeling he'll be getting his nanites back at some point since that's kind of his thing, removing them otherwise seems less like a development and more like a writer trying to make him easier to write.

I could never see what brilliance other people can see in Kindt's writing. This series is so self-indulgent that it's only point is to forward some plot points that Kindt and Lemire would use in their own books. My being upset about the death of Kay Mchenry is not a sign of good writing. Kindt and Lemire did not make me like Kay, FVL did. Kindt and Lemire just made a story to forward their own books that are not going anywhere without this gimmick of a story.

Oh, I have a cool undefeatable enemy in mind so that I can be credited of thinking of an idea of how to get all the VEI heroes in one series. But how do we take him down if he's so undefeatable that all the heroes can not stop him? Oh, I don't know. Let's just use the deus ex machina machine created by the brilliant mind of a more creative writer, and then let us not explain any specifics of how it worked. As long as it forwards the plot of two books I am writing.

Oh, I do not know how to make a character with strong healing properties interesting because I can not think of how anybody can challenge him. But I do know how to write grim and gritty characters with a chip on their shoulder. Can we find a way to remove his healing properties so that I can write the character I know how to write?

Let's kill off a promising character in the process so that we can give some realism to our story with a killer goat and a glue-sniffing punk on the radar of the intelligence community as on-call superpowered operatives. You know, Brian Michael Bendis does this all the time. Kill of characters so that the story would become more believable. Hmmm...who to kill? Oh, you have an interesting character that has been shelved because only the original creator knows how to write anything close to interesting about her? We'll take it!

I think right at the end here is where you nailed it for me. I think what I dislike about this was that it felt like such a Marvel/DC move. Invent an over the top villain that can single handily beat everything tossed at it, kill off a character too make it look strong, deus ex machina the defeat and pimp the spin off.

Hate to agree here but I have to. Kay McHenry was just starting to get interesting... but she was not at a level where I was surprised or emotionally bothered by her death.

Also, I am very concerned about the Time Travel getting a little out of hand...I was thinking Divinity would replace Solar and would handle the back and forth, but now if Ivar AND Giliad are somehow doing it...I dunno man.

I like Valiant because the universe is tight. The editing is tight. Please keep it that way!!!!

[Dr. Solar]

Hate to agree here but I have to. Kay McHenry was just starting to get interesting... but she was not at a level where I was surprised or emotionally bothered by her death.

Also, I am very concerned about the Time Travel getting a little out of hand...I was thinking Divinity would replace Solar and would handle the back and forth, but now if Ivar AND Giliad are somehow doing it...I dunno man.

I like Valiant because the universe is tight. The editing is tight. Please keep it that way!!!!

Welcome to the bored!

[dornwolf]

The payoff is so freakingly underwhelming consudering the costs. You killed off a refreshingly new character in Kay McHenry for this? You removed Bloodshot's capabilities for this? You made all VEI characters team up for this? And you made use of the Boon for this?

What a joke. Really, I am sticking to my vow before that I would just stay within the FVL and Dysart corner of VEI. Then I would just pick up the Nord, Perez and Suayan books.

What a disappointment.

I kind of agree. It's a shame to just fridge a character we never really saw and replace her with a character we'll probably never see again. As for Bloodshot I have a feeling he'll be getting his nanites back at some point since that's kind of his thing, removing them otherwise seems less like a development and more like a writer trying to make him easier to write.

I could never see what brilliance other people can see in Kindt's writing. This series is so self-indulgent that it's only point is to forward some plot points that Kindt and Lemire would use in their own books. My being upset about the death of Kay Mchenry is not a sign of good writing. Kindt and Lemire did not make me like Kay, FVL did. Kindt and Lemire just made a story to forward their own books that are not going anywhere without this gimmick of a story.

Oh, I have a cool undefeatable enemy in mind so that I can be credited of thinking of an idea of how to get all the VEI heroes in one series. But how do we take him down if he's so undefeatable that all the heroes can not stop him? Oh, I don't know. Let's just use the deus ex machina machine created by the brilliant mind of a more creative writer, and then let us not explain any specifics of how it worked. As long as it forwards the plot of two books I am writing.

Oh, I do not know how to make a character with strong healing properties interesting because I can not think of how anybody can challenge him. But I do know how to write grim and gritty characters with a chip on their shoulder. Can we find a way to remove his healing properties so that I can write the character I know how to write?

Let's kill off a promising character in the process so that we can give some realism to our story with a killer goat and a glue-sniffing punk on the radar of the intelligence community as on-call superpowered operatives. You know, Brian Michael Bendis does this all the time. Kill of characters so that the story would become more believable. Hmmm...who to kill? Oh, you have an interesting character that has been shelved because only the original creator knows how to write anything close to interesting about her? We'll take it!

I think right at the end here is where you nailed it for me. I think what I dislike about this was that it felt like such a Marvel/DC move. Invent an over the top villain that can single handily beat everything tossed at it, kill off a character too make it look strong, deus ex machina the defeat and pimp the spin off.

Hate to agree here but I have to. Kay McHenry was just starting to get interesting... but she was not at a level where I was surprised or emotionally bothered by her death.

Also, I am very concerned about the Time Travel getting a little out of hand...I was thinking Divinity would replace Solar and would handle the back and forth, but now if Ivar AND Giliad are somehow doing it...I dunno man.

I like Valiant because the universe is tight. The editing is tight. Please keep it that way!!!!

My reaction really isn't emotionally driven or anything like that. It's more of an annoyance. Like I mentioned this is literally the same crap Marvel/DC do and it drives people up the wall there and yet valiant gets a pass. Now I could be wrong Kay could be brought back using Mother Earth or the Nanites she took from Bloodshot. In the end though I'm more annoyed by how weak the ending ultimately was and how Bloodshots been devolved into Punisher-lite.

[greg]

A review of Valiant #4 posted at Boomtron.com http://www.boomtron.com/2015/03/the-val ... e-changer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jeremycoe]

Bloodshots been devolved into Punisher-lite.

Do we really know what has happened to Bloodshot other than he got his pigmentation back?

[dornwolf]

Bloodshots been devolved into Punisher-lite.

Do we really know what has happened to Bloodshot other than he got his pigmentation back?

I'm working off what I'm seeing. Kay removed his Nanites and he's just plain Ray now. So unless he still has some I'm looking at it as if he's been depowered

[jeremycoe]

Bloodshots been devolved into Punisher-lite.

Do we really know what has happened to Bloodshot other than he got his pigmentation back?

I'm working off what I'm seeing. Kay removed his Nanites and he's just plain Ray now. So unless he still has some I'm looking at it as if he's been depowered

I don't know that we can say she removed his nanites. Maybe. I think when Harada removed them you could see them leaving, and it didn't affect his pigmentation.

[Bl00dsh0t]

I would expect Bloodshot to get his nanites back at some stage (hopefully within the first arc or two of Bloosshot Reborn).

Kay as a 'Goldie' type character showing up in Bloodshot Reborn would be cool and I think, satisfy the fan discontent at her wasted death, if only a little.

Bloodshot is the character he is BECAUSE of the nanites - take them away for a prolonged period and, as others have mentioned at length, all we have is a Punisher-type character.

I wish Duane Swierczynski was able to stay on this book...that said I'm excited for Bloodshot Reborn.

[hunter_peterson]

Bloodshots been devolved into Punisher-lite.

Do we really know what has happened to Bloodshot other than he got his pigmentation back?

I'm working off what I'm seeing. Kay removed his Nanites and he's just plain Ray now. So unless he still has some I'm looking at it as if he's been depowered

I don't know that we can say she removed his nanites. Maybe. I think when Harada removed them you could see them leaving, and it didn't affect his pigmentation.

I'm pretty sure Kay's soul was absorbed into the nanites and she deactivated them- when Bloodshot needs to hero up he can ask her to turn them back on. Which means he can be Bloodshot and be a normal human as well, potentially. If that's what they go with, that's huge! It makes him more like a Shazam/Wolverine/Punisher, which is unique. Not to mention that makes her functionally immortal, just not the Geomancer anymore. Which I'm sure Kindt will do something it's in 4001.

And the new Geomancer likely comes from the time between now and Rai. She was sent back as a child, probably with the lifeforce of the Immortal Enemy and Gilad (though Gilad likely only has slightly more than the normal amount due to being immortal because of the Earth and not the Boon). Which means the 4001 Geomancer that powers Japan probably is a present day Valiant hero all grown up, providing more connective tissue. Depending how she's characterised, she's definitely going to be a huge part of the Valiant universe for a long time... the Geomancer just got elevated to a starring role level. Now I really would love an Eternal Warrior/Geomancer mentor/student book. And the Immortal Enemy is likely still out there!

I do agree that everyone meeting for the first time here is a bit underwhelming, though. That said, I'm sure nobody got to know each other at all, so that means we don't really lose those interactions either.

So yeah... I think the lingering questions will all be answered fairly promptly. So this series will actually read better after we know what it leads to more accurately.

[David_Cody]

I agree with the new guy when he said that it appears that now Gilad and IVAR are time-travelers. It is a bit odd, but if Ivar can take what's her face through time and survive, I am sure the EW is up to the task.

[jmatt]

This series is so self-indulgent that it's only point is to forward some plot points that Kindt and Lemire would use in their own books. ... Kindt and Lemire just made a story to forward their own books ...

I have to admit, I didn't really understand your emotional rejection of this issue (arc) at first. But upon reflection, yes, it's obvious that these events are setups for where Kindt and Lemire want to take their other books.

Perhaps these events are a mixed blessing, in that we may finally see EW embrace his role with a new Geomancer going forward, rather than the rejection of it we've seen since his VEI incarnation.

I don't really know anything about the comic-editorial process. How do they decide where to take the characters? A strong-handed uber-watchdog like Shooter who knows what he wants and lays out the plot lines for the writers? Or, for lack of competing ideas, handing the reins to the writers and letting them create with lightly limited restriction?

Ultimately, for lack of some Grand Roadmap, it's going to fall to the creative minds in the room at the retreats.

All of that being said, I liked the issue even more upon a second read. Yes, sad to see Kay go. Yes, a lot of issues are still unanswered (as Gilad acknowledges, an important point).

But a new beginning for Bloodshot? It could be great. A new beginning for Gilad? It might be what we've been waiting for. A role for the Geomancer in Rai? Sounds cool. A stronger Geomancer in the present? Possibilities.

[ilzuccone]

Kind-t and lemire lob a soft ball. Sat down to read this book as soon as i got it. Haven't done that in a couple months. My reaction was "thats it? Mehhhhhhhh"

As usual i agree with everything erwin wrote (seriously ive never agreed with anyone as consistently as i agree with this guy )

Unfortunately i also agree with his "why am i buying this stuff" Mentality. I had high hopes for this years books. But kind-t just isnt creative enough to carry as many books as he is.

Valiant might have officially jumped the shark with this mini.


Bummer

[BugsySig]

The more I've reflected on it, the more holes in the plot become apparent.

The biggest being this: Why doesn't Bloodshot just use some of his Nanites to heal Kay? We've seen him do it before. Her wounds did not seem so traumatic that they were beyond the Nanites ability to heal.

Second: I get that the IE preys on the Geomancer's greatest fears, but as someone mentioned in another thread Kay is a woman who was able to rewrite the universal code of the Earth. You're telling me she couldn't put up a better fight? Lame.

Third: Gilad is basically portrayed as an idiot. We've discussed it before, but an immortal master of tactics and strategy has centuries to prepare for the IE and all he can muster is "hit it harder"? It took Ninjak all of two encounters with the IM to tell Gilad he needs to change tactics.

Fourth: What the *SQUEE* is the IE and why does he kill Geomancers? This is something that could be addressed in the future, but the fact that we got ZERO insight into this during these four issues (other than "it's the nature of things") was a huge disappointment.

Obviously we will learn more about the fate of Kay and the future of Bloodshot in Reborn. I also assume we receive some revelations about the 4001 Geomancer in the next issue of Rai, and a new EW mini dealing with the repercussions of The Valiant would be a welcome addition.

Personally, I have no problem with changing a character's status quo and shaking things up as long as the story and art are good, which it looks like these will be. But if there are two things I hate (and which I'm starting to side with erwinrafael on on) it's continuity errors and lazy writing. And The Valiant, on retrospect, had quite a bit of it.

My suggestion? Make FVL the official keeper of continuity. The guy is awesome at it. Every year, have him write a VALIANT Annual issue with 2-3 stories which rectify continuity issues. It would be easy enough to fill in the gaps this way without stepping on any of the current storylines or creators toes.

[geocarr]

The more I've reflected on it, the more holes in the plot become apparent.

The biggest being this: Why doesn't Bloodshot just use some of his Nanites to heal Kay? We've seen him do it before. Her wounds did not seem so traumatic that they were beyond the Nanites ability to heal.

Second: I get that the IE preys on the Geomancer's greatest fears, but as someone mentioned in another thread Kay is a woman who was able to rewrite the universal code of the Earth. You're telling me she couldn't put up a better fight? Lame.

Third: Gilad is basically portrayed as an idiot. We've discussed it before, but an immortal master of tactics and strategy has centuries to prepare for the IE and all he can muster is "hit it harder"? It took Ninjak all of two encounters with the IM to tell Gilad he needs to change tactics.

Fourth: What the *SQUEE* is the IE and why does he kill Geomancers? This is something that could be addressed in the future, but the fact that we got ZERO insight into this during these four issues (other than "it's the nature of things") was a huge disappointment.

Obviously we will learn more about the fate of Kay and the future of Bloodshot in Reborn. I also assume we receive some revelations about the 4001 Geomancer in the next issue of Rai, and a new EW mini dealing with the repercussions of The Valiant would be a welcome addition.

Personally, I have no problem with changing a character's status quo and shaking things up as long as the story and art are good, which it looks like these will be. But if there are two things I hate (and which I'm starting to side with erwinrafael on on) it's continuity errors and lazy writing. And The Valiant, on retrospect, had quite a bit of it.

My suggestion? Make FVL the official keeper of continuity. The guy is awesome at it. Every year, have him write a VALIANT Annual issue with 2-3 stories which rectify continuity issues. It would be easy enough to fill in the gaps this way without stepping on any of the current storylines or creators toes.

+1
IMO, the editors got a little lax and should have expected some of your (and mine) reactions above and addressed them with the writers prior to approval for publication.

[Phoenix8008]

The more I've reflected on it, the more holes in the plot become apparent.

The biggest being this: Why doesn't Bloodshot just use some of his Nanites to heal Kay? We've seen him do it before. Her wounds did not seem so traumatic that they were beyond the Nanites ability to heal.

Second: I get that the IE preys on the Geomancer's greatest fears, but as someone mentioned in another thread Kay is a woman who was able to rewrite the universal code of the Earth. You're telling me she couldn't put up a better fight? Lame.

Third: Gilad is basically portrayed as an idiot. We've discussed it before, but an immortal master of tactics and strategy has centuries to prepare for the IE and all he can muster is "hit it harder"? It took Ninjak all of two encounters with the IM to tell Gilad he needs to change tactics.

Fourth: What the *SQUEE* is the IE and why does he kill Geomancers? This is something that could be addressed in the future, but the fact that we got ZERO insight into this during these four issues (other than "it's the nature of things") was a huge disappointment.

Obviously we will learn more about the fate of Kay and the future of Bloodshot in Reborn. I also assume we receive some revelations about the 4001 Geomancer in the next issue of Rai, and a new EW mini dealing with the repercussions of The Valiant would be a welcome addition.

Personally, I have no problem with changing a character's status quo and shaking things up as long as the story and art are good, which it looks like these will be. But if there are two things I hate (and which I'm starting to side with erwinrafael on on) it's continuity errors and lazy writing. And The Valiant, on retrospect, had quite a bit of it.

My suggestion? Make FVL the official keeper of continuity. The guy is awesome at it. Every year, have him write a VALIANT Annual issue with 2-3 stories which rectify continuity issues. It would be easy enough to fill in the gaps this way without stepping on any of the current storylines or creators toes.

+1
IMO, the editors got a little lax and should have expected some of your (and mine) reactions above and addressed them with the writers prior to approval for publication.

I guess the series was okay to me. When reading through it myself, I didn't see a lot of these issues, but when they're pointed out by others I can see the problems. One question? After the funeral, the flowers on Kay's grave were shown alive, then dead. Just symbology? Just showing passage of time? Or nanites eating the flowers protein to facilitate healing? I'll give it a grade of B overall, but the number of issues people are pointing out is a disturbing trend that seems to follow Kindt around more than others. It's like it is just as good as Marvel & DC, not the above and beyond excellence I got used to Valiant producing from the likes of Dysart, Venditti, and FVL. Not bad, just not as good as it has potential to be. But the same could be said of the Shadowman and EW series which are no longer running.

*Edit - And why the heck did they feel the need to put Gilad's face scars on Bloodshot on the cover? That has nothing to do with the story inside. Worse, it's totally misleading. The cover would be fine if not for those scars. Whose stupid idea was that?

[mateo107]

so I sat down to read the whole series. I really liked the first 2 issues, I liked seeing Kay again, and I loved her interaction with Bloodshot throughout the entire series.

issue 3 jumped off track for me when all the heroes just assembled out of nowhere for a throw-away battle. the Valiant universe hasn't been around long enough that all these characters would know who each other are (and by extension, the readers), and I feel this squandered a lot of the first meeting potential for other writers. there's little worth mentioning about this encounter, but future writers can't just ignore it either. not to mention some of the characters who have already met would probably never work together (Harbinger and H.A.R.D.Corps, Archer & Armstrong and H.A.R.D.Corps). Ivar appears in just 2 panels even though with the time travel angle thrown in later it would have made more sense for him to play a bigger role. even the end of the fight was diminished when Kindt basically repeated it in Divinity. they tried to throw way too many characters into the book without having a good story reason for doing so, and as has been said already, that reads more like a Marvel or DC comic. having another issue or two to set this up would have made a big difference.

issue 4 introduced a deus ex machina solution out of nowhere. when I first saw the previews with the Eternal Emperor and the box, I thought Gilad had planted an ultimate weapon like a time capsule and was waiting for the right moment to strike, even if 2,000 years later. playing the long game and waiting patiently would be the natural course of action for the Eternal Warrior, the time travel was sloppily introduced in the same issue and just isn't Gilad's wheelhouse. again, this could have worked if Ivar had played a bigger role in the overall story and time travel had been mentioned prior. but as it was executed, it was a cheat ending.

Kay's death was a real letdown, the character had so much potential that was wasted. she hadn't been around long enough for her passing to mean as much to the reader, so it seems almost disposable. the newly introduced Geomancer is little more than a prop, with no dialogue or character and no reason to like her. maybe they left themselves an out, but this development actually has me less excited for Bloodshot Reborn than I was before. I'm sad that we never got to see Kay learning with Gilad (not even in this series), and I thought it would have been interesting if she was romantically involved with another Valiant hero. also, I'm not sure why Bloodshot had light skin, wasn't it established that he was actually black? Kay's death sadly seems symbolic of the series, a lot of early potential and then disappointment.

[jeremycoe]

I'm not sure why Bloodshot had light skin, wasn't it established that he was actually black?

It was established that a Bloodshot was black, not necessarily the current one.

[Sven the Returned]

So the death of the Geomancer leads to massive worldwide chaos and fall of civilizations? I would hope so, it would give meaning to these games between EW and and EE.

[Phoenix8008]

So the death of the Geomancer leads to massive worldwide chaos and fall of civilizations? I would hope so, it would give meaning to these games between EW and and EE.

But it has to be only if a Geomancer is killed by the Immortal Enemy, otherwise Archer & Armstrong would be responsible for setting off an apocalypse in A&A #4! This would give better explanation though for Gilad's berserker rage in A&A #5-6 when chasing them.

Another question, does Gilad now have a triple row of scars going across his belly that will never heal? Why didn't they add another line to his face instead? That would have shown some definitive change that is measurable. We see flashback at certain era, Gilad has only 2 scars: "Oh, that's between this time and that time then." We see Gilad with 4 scars: "Oh, that's after The Valiant battle against Immortal Enemy.", etc.

[erwinrafael]

But a new beginning for Bloodshot? It could be great. A new beginning for Gilad? It might be what we've been waiting for. A role for the Geomancer in Rai? Sounds cool. A stronger Geomancer in the present? Possibilities.

I am particularly disappointed with the Eternal Warrior / Geomancer twist, because, from my point of view, Matt Kindt is the only writer who IGNORED the EW - Geomancer connection. FVL set up an EW - Geomancer teamup by the end of the EW story arc. Greg Pak, for all his faults, made sure that the EW - Geomancer connection is central to his story. Same goes for Milligan in Days of Steel.

Kindt is the only one who ignored it. The whole of Unity, we have been waiting for him to acknowledge it and to tell us how being part of Unity fits into EW's mission for the Earth. He ignored it for one year and now he brings it up and kills the Geomancer in favor of his version of the Geomancer. His "new beginning" for the EW and GEomancer is actually just rehashing what was already set up for him before he took up EW in Unity.

Also, just to correct a misconception, all the "EW hates his mission for the Earth" stuff are in stories set in the past. In FVL's set up, which was set in the present day, EW was clearly shown to have embraced his role.

For Bloodshot, it just felt like a very Wolverine twist. Like Wolverine losing his adamantium. Or Wolverine losing his healing powers. Again, it could be good. No doubt. But again, I would rather have a new writer who knows how to write a good story around what makes Bloodshot the unique character he is.

[String]

Fourth: What the *SQUEE* is the IE and why does he kill Geomancers? This is something that could be addressed in the future, but the fact that we got ZERO insight into this during these four issues (other than "it's the nature of things") was a huge disappointment.

Rather, why does IE go after/kill certain Geomancers? I could understand it if IE eventually comes after every single Geomancer but it doesn't. So what draws it forth to face certain ones?

The highlight of this mini for me was the burgeoning relationship between Bloodshot and Kay. Kay dying was a huge blow and frankly, I think, a waste of potential. Plus, for those who may not be reading every issue of Rai, the appearance of this new Geomancer holds little meaning beyond seemingly giving Gilad a new purpose. It was like a shot out of the middle of nowhere.

It's sad when Ninjak's three panel appearances concisely explains what is wrong with Gilad's mentality throughout this mini.

That being said, I do hope that Kindt and Lemire do follow through on these developments. For sometimes it feels as if their titles are in a completely different, separate area of the VEI Universe than the other books (especially in relation to Dysart's work).

[Dallow Spicer1]

I enjoyed lots of elements within this book/series (BS/Kay storyline, the mystery of the box, Mr Flay, Rivera's art), but it was combined with, and I hate to say it, wasteful moments too (most of all the pointless use of the VEI cast of characters - I hated those pages so much ).

I was thinking that Kay was absorbing the nanites as she died might have healed her wounds but the burial scene seems to suggest otherwise?

I've got no problem with this leading into Bloodshot Reborn and the new Geomancer seems interesting but overall I don't feel the series lived up to its potential.

On second read I enjoyed this issue more. I think my main gripe is with issue 3.

Issue #4 - 4/5

The series overall 3/5 but should/could have been 4.5/5!

Ps VEI needs to get a grip on the editorial errors, whether it's art or typos they happen too frequently!