The Valiant #3

[Michael_Ayer]

That makes sense BugsySig and jmatt. I thought of what everyone was saying and it didn't seem like people were enjoying it. I thought to myself, "if the creators, etc were reading this they would be pretty discouraged." And, really I am enjoying it immensely. After 20 years I cam back to comics only because of valiant and curiosity. So I read mostly on iPad early in morning before my professional job . My wife jokes around but has learned that I really enjoy it and the Valiant is one of my favs.

[String]

I see the things people are saying here... But I am really enjoying it. Matt Kindt is doings great job and I look forward to each one.

I will also say none of those elements have damaged my enjoyment of the series thus far in the slightest

Agreed. There are *NOOGIES* little details and they surface in our critiques and discussion, but that's what makes us the true fanbase. We care enough to notice.

+1

Yes, why and how all these characters teamed up is a bit of a stretch, but it still doesn't overshadow how cool it was to see them all fighting together. (Yes, even the goat leading the charge with laser eye beams).

I also agree with the assessment that so far, this is making Gilad look inept. Over the centuries, he's (apparently) been unable to adapt or cope with this enemy, he's failed in his duties to protect the Geomancer, and as far as I can tell, he has yet to land a major lick on the IE. Maybe IE somehow negates the Geomancer's influence/power and somehow that transfers over to Gilad. For it's getting rather frustrating to continually see IE smack Gilad one good time and he's out for the count. So hopefully Gilad will get some form of redemption in the last issue.

But despite all these nitpicks, this mini has been a blast to read, especially the scenes between Bloodshot and Kay.

[BugsySig]

I see the things people are saying here... But I am really enjoying it. Matt Kindt is doings great job and I look forward to each one.

I will also say none of those elements have damaged my enjoyment of the series thus far in the slightest

Agreed. There are *NOOGIES* little details and they surface in our critiques and discussion, but that's what makes us the true fanbase. We care enough to notice.

+1

Yes, why and how all these characters teamed up is a bit of a stretch, but it still doesn't overshadow how cool it was to see them all fighting together. (Yes, even the goat leading the charge with laser eye beams).

I also agree with the assessment that so far, this is making Gilad look inept. Over the centuries, he's (apparently) been unable to adapt or cope with this enemy, he's failed in his duties to protect the Geomancer, and as far as I can tell, he has yet to land a major lick on the IE. Maybe IE somehow negates the Geomancer's influence/power and somehow that transfers over to Gilad. For it's getting rather frustrating to continually see IE smack Gilad one good time and he's out for the count. So hopefully Gilad will get some form of redemption in the last issue.

But despite all these nitpicks, this mini has been a blast to read, especially the scenes between Bloodshot and Kay.

In the Days of Steel mini Gilad talks about strategy and leadership over just brawn. So against the IE he attempts strategy, but he has never taken the time to actually study his opponent.

He's only encountered him 3 times. Each a brief battle before the IE disappears for hundreds of years. Yet Gilad has never bothered to study who or what the IE is? Or how to possibly defeat him?

Is Gulad just not concerned with knowledge beyond the battlefield? Or is there something else? Could the Earth be keeping something from him?

[erwinrafael]

I see the things people are saying here... But I am really enjoying it. Matt Kindt is doings great job and I look forward to each one.

I will also say none of those elements have damaged my enjoyment of the series thus far in the slightest

Agreed. There are *NOOGIES* little details and they surface in our critiques and discussion, but that's what makes us the true fanbase. We care enough to notice.

+1

Yes, why and how all these characters teamed up is a bit of a stretch, but it still doesn't overshadow how cool it was to see them all fighting together. (Yes, even the goat leading the charge with laser eye beams).

I also agree with the assessment that so far, this is making Gilad look inept. Over the centuries, he's (apparently) been unable to adapt or cope with this enemy, he's failed in his duties to protect the Geomancer, and as far as I can tell, he has yet to land a major lick on the IE. Maybe IE somehow negates the Geomancer's influence/power and somehow that transfers over to Gilad. For it's getting rather frustrating to continually see IE smack Gilad one good time and he's out for the count. So hopefully Gilad will get some form of redemption in the last issue.

But despite all these nitpicks, this mini has been a blast to read, especially the scenes between Bloodshot and Kay.

In the Days of Steel mini Gilad talks about strategy and leadership over just brawn. So against the IE he attempts strategy, but he has never taken the time to actually study his opponent.

He's only encountered him 3 times. Each a brief battle before the IE disappears for hundreds of years. Yet Gilad has never bothered to study who or what the IE is? Or how to possibly defeat him?

Is Gulad just not concerned with knowledge beyond the battlefield? Or is there something else? Could the Earth be keeping something from him?

it could just be bad plot-first writing. Like how HUgh Jackman Wolverine in the movies seems to be cool, but when you review the films, he almost lost all the battles he is in.

[String]

I see the things people are saying here... But I am really enjoying it. Matt Kindt is doings great job and I look forward to each one.

I will also say none of those elements have damaged my enjoyment of the series thus far in the slightest

Agreed. There are *NOOGIES* little details and they surface in our critiques and discussion, but that's what makes us the true fanbase. We care enough to notice.

+1

Yes, why and how all these characters teamed up is a bit of a stretch, but it still doesn't overshadow how cool it was to see them all fighting together. (Yes, even the goat leading the charge with laser eye beams).

I also agree with the assessment that so far, this is making Gilad look inept. Over the centuries, he's (apparently) been unable to adapt or cope with this enemy, he's failed in his duties to protect the Geomancer, and as far as I can tell, he has yet to land a major lick on the IE. Maybe IE somehow negates the Geomancer's influence/power and somehow that transfers over to Gilad. For it's getting rather frustrating to continually see IE smack Gilad one good time and he's out for the count. So hopefully Gilad will get some form of redemption in the last issue.

But despite all these nitpicks, this mini has been a blast to read, especially the scenes between Bloodshot and Kay.

In the Days of Steel mini Gilad talks about strategy and leadership over just brawn. So against the IE he attempts strategy, but he has never taken the time to actually study his opponent.

He's only encountered him 3 times. Each a brief battle before the IE disappears for hundreds of years. Yet Gilad has never bothered to study who or what the IE is? Or how to possibly defeat him?

Is Gulad just not concerned with knowledge beyond the battlefield? Or is there something else? Could the Earth be keeping something from him?

He's faced IE only three times and after every defeat, a new dark age emerges for humanity, which means Gilad should place some importance on learning/defeating this enemy for he knows IE will come back again at some point.

To me, that begs two questions:

1) Has Gilad consulted later Geomancers about any of their knowledge of IE? This may tie into your idea of the Earth keeping secrets from the both of them for some reason but if Gilad does the proper thing and at least warn the current Geomancer of the possible threat/appearance of IE, then I have to wonder what the Geomancer can or will tell Gilad about it.

2) Has Gilad ever consulted other occult sources on the existence/nature of IE? If the Geomancer is unwilling or unable to aid him in this venture, why hasn't he sought out other possible sources of knowledge on IE?

[Tim]

Also using Punk Mambo in this scene was bizarre? How was she even on the governments radar in order to call upon? Was it consistent with her character to agree to be involved even? Nah, that scene was a big mis-step.

I agree with this. The battle scene really took the series as a whole down more than a few pegs for me to the point where I'm starting to think it was a waste of talent and not terribly thought through. As much as I hate the "events" that are dominating comics these days, a story this huge being crammed into four issues is just not working.

The scenes with Kay and Bloodshot were really good, though but really my main hang up is that terrible battle scene. H.A.R.D Corps just shooting a few guns? Punk Mambo's lame *SQUEE*? Also, I agree with the sentiment someone had earlier that these characters first meetings being wasted on a few pages of a fight scene. Also, GN-GR can level freaking Mexico City but can't single-handedly take on the Eternal Enemy? Please....totally unbelievable. Loving the art though...Paolo is genius.

[jmatt]

The scenes with Kay and Bloodshot were really good,

Agree, that dialogue may have been the best part of the book.

H.A.R.D Corps just shooting a few guns?

IIRC, I think there was some emphasis on "weapons for offense and powers for defense."

[first_citizenx]

I wouldn't worry too much about missed character introductions. That can easily be explained away later on when characters meet as a "I vaguely recall you from that chaotic time in that big mob fight" explanation. Is it perfect? No...but that's an established comic book trope.

[leonmallett]

To be honest I was disappointed with this issue. Specifically the use of all of the VEI characters seemed 'forced' and crowbarred in and didn't add anything to the story. I thought it was a waste to lump all of the characters together in this way as this effectively robs and future stories of where characters meet for the first time.

Having Quantum & Woody in the scene was bad enough but having the GOAT!?! This really took me out of the story.

Totally agreed that it was a wasted opportunity, and an opportunity that was given up quite cheaply, and worse, it just felt 'dropped in' to me. Careless, sorry to say.

[leonmallett]

Also using Punk Mambo in this scene was bizarre? How was she even on the governments radar in order to call upon? Was it consistent with her character to agree to be involved even? Nah, that scene was a big mis-step.

Yep. I totally agree.

[leonmallett]

I liked the issue but have to agree with all of this.

It was a mash up, but I don't think it came across as being rediculous because those rediculous characters were not treated as such. They were just shown using their powers against the IM, and then their worst fears were shown. If the characters are treated in a more serious manner, then it works fine IMHO.

XO and Archer will be mixing with two Q&W characters in Dead Drop, which seems wierd, but if the writer and artist treat them appropriately then it can work.

Was it necessary to use all of those characters do you think? Did it really add anything significant to the story that couldn't have been achieved with Unity?

How about the fact that the unlike the Marvel or DC universes where most /all characters have previously met before, the first meetings of say XO and HARD Corps or Torque and Armstrong has now effectively happened and we didn't get to see how that went down? The latest OTV podcast with the Canadian crew (I think it was Hawkeye) raised a good point of why would Psiot kids fight alongside HARD Corps given that they had murdered one of the Psiot kids in the already established continuity?

I think we're being too kind on this part of the story, up until this point it was living up to the hype but this was an unnecessary mistake (IMO).

So you'd rather not have it at and wait for a more sincere meeting between characters...I get that, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

The same effect may have been accomplished with just Unity, but then why not just make this story a Unity arc? It serves the larger purpose of introducing new readers to the varied and diverse cast of characters in the VALIANT Universe. This series is supposed to be a jumping on point for readers, so why not throw a little of everything out there?

It also shows just how big a threat it is, that the IM can defeat absolutely everyone.

I do agree having Gen Zero next to HARD Corps might be strange, but who's to say they knew who else would be there until they showed up and saw the threat? A weak point for sure, but nothing that ruins the story for me. I preferred to geek out seeing everyone on the same splash page in-story rather than on a piece of promotional art.

It's cool to disagree Good point about it might have well have been a Unity arc with just Unity in it, I agree with that but perhaps a better balance of which characters are included, Psiots - Yes, Hard Corps - Yes (apart from the killing the Psiot kids thing) but Punk Mambo and the goat?

I still enjoyed other aspects of the book, eg what's in the box and the Bloodshot/Kay character development. I hope the final issue delivers!

Oh definitely

Part of including those characters is obviously to show off the currently or recently featured IPs. So that has to be taken into account.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Q&W, but I've always said I thought they could fit into the larger VU if treated appropriately within the context.

Punk Mambo is definitely just thrown in there, but down the line who's to say Lemire or Kindt won't revisit her and provide some context for her inclusion...such as having previously interacted with MI6 or Neville? She is British after all.

And I firmly believe Lemire will be writing Shadowman eventually. So it wouldn't surprise me to see him use her again.

Being British would no more link her to Alcott than living in the USA to Capshaw. Some kind of context for the inclusion of the character would have been a better choice, but no, they were thrown in there all at once, and VEI has allowed Lemire and Kindt to blow 'first interaction' opportunities for a heel of a lot of characters. Too much leeway was given here I feel, for very little gain other than demonstrating how threatening the Immortal Enemy is. That could have been achieved with a smaller cast: basically the Unity team past and present plus Kay is arguably a more powerful line-up than Gilad had alongside him in previous encounters.

[leonmallett]

...The scenes with Kay and Bloodshot were really good...

And probably the best thing in the series for me.