Marvel/Disney playing hardball with FOX & Sony

[bosco685]

Maybe I should have said "what point are you trying to make?".

There ya go. See, in this faceless-to-faceless interface it is very easy to misunderstand (as I have stated already). So though the image you copied states 'argue' is a synonym for 'debate', the implied meaning is less about discussion and more about conflict.

'What point are you trying to make' is a much nicer way to ask. I posted what I meant. It is a very shortsighted approach on Marvel's part to disrupt its X-Universe comics to spite Fox. Fantastic Four, on the other hand, most probably needs to take time off.

Deadpool, Uncanny X-Men and All New X-Men being Top 50 books for monthly sales could have blowback impacts on Marvel's image.

[lorddunlow]

bosco685, I think part of your frustration here is you're engaged in about 3 different debates with various users and they are overlapping. Elveen explained his point pretty concisely while I think you and Cyberstrike are having some communication difficulties...

Personally, I want Marvel to have all of their properties not because I think Fox is doing a bad job (however, 2 or 3 good movies doesn't mean they are doing a good job with the properties), but because I want to see Spiderman and mutants and Galactus and all the rest as possible characters in the awesome shared universe that is the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The shared movie universe is a wholly unique idea (at least as far I I know) and it has made the Marvel movies more successful than the individual movies themselves actually merit.

I had no interest in seeing Thor or Captain America in movies. I loved Iron Man and Incredible Hulk, but I didn't have any interest outside of that. After I learned that the Avengers was going to tie all of the Marvel movies together, I went out and rented Captain America and Thor - and loved them! How many others do you think were just like me and my wife? I loved the Raimi Spiderman movies, and I loved X-Men First Class, but after seeing what Marvel can accomplish I feel torn as to whether I should even support non-Marvel owned characters in movies. I want them all in the same universe!

[bosco685]

bosco685, I think part of your frustration here is you're engaged in about 3 different debates with various users and they are overlapping. Elveen explained his point pretty concisely while I think you and Cyberstrike are having some communication difficulties...

Oh, don't assume I am frustrated. Did you see me go off on anything here? Taking a stance on something is not getting frustrated. It is holding to what you perceive to be reality or true. I wouldn't confuse the two. And with Elveen, that post he made implied the 'Magic of Marvel' could do the same thing for the Inhumans that it did for Guardians. I'd like to see that, as I was a long-time Marvel reader. But we shall see, as I never make the mistake of assuming historic wins always equals future wins. Better to all Marvel Studios to prove itself each time.

Heck, Marvel even had its own concerns. Anyone catch when they started plugging 'From the company that brought you Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and The Avengers...'?

I want them all in the same universe!

Right there is where we are all in agreement. There are so many cool stories from over the decades where these characters had a chance to team up and fight powerful villains that came from other titles. With the current arrangement, that can't happen. So characters like Galactus, Silver Surfer, The Watcher, Namor (this one goes back and forth who has it, thugh Feige says he thinks they do), The Skrulls and others are held back from the much larger Marvel Universe.

That I dislike as a Marvel fan.

[Elveen]

and if the person you referencing in your post is not me, then.....

Unless I am misreading your previous post, which I assumed to hint at Marvel could make anything a success...

The one thing that Marvel can always use in negotiations is....

Guardians of the galaxy.
They don't need (spidey or the x men),they certainly want them, I'd think badly. But if they can make GotG massive ( and it was and is huge) they will do the same with ant man and black panther and the inhumans and whatever else they do.
I agree that it would have been cool to see the silver surfer and galactus in the GotG movie, but they did not need them.
Heck, we got my kids the new Disney infinity 2.0 and they got a power disk that allowed them to play with Yondu!!!! Yondu? Would the silver surfer be cool, heck yes!
But marvel / Disney has the upper hand here, they can make black bolt or medusa super popular.

Then I misunderstood its intent. But it is easy to interpret your intent as such when you mention Marvel could even make the charaters of the Inhumans a hit before the movie is even released.

Did I miss your intent in this clearly stated thread?

This was brought up to show that Marvel / Disney CAN pay hard ball with the X men and Spidey (if need be) because they can make any character a star (I used GotG as an example and even yondu as another example). I was stating a clear fact that Marvel can afford to lose some x men comic book $$$$ because of the sucess of their movies (GotG) and that they don't NEED the x men to make $$$$. They can make any character popular, so they can play hard ball NOW to get the X men back for later.

My use of GotG (and even Ant man and the Inhumans) is to show that Marvel movies have a proven track record of making BIG bank the last few years. I'm talking about everything post Iron Man #1

From Iron Man #1 on, they spent 1.7 Billion and have made 7 bill! (and that is including the Hulk)
I'm not talking quality of any movies, just $$$$$. And apparently Marvel CAN make tier 2 and lower characters uber popular and successful.

I bet, right now.... more students (elementary to High school) know who Rocket, Groot, Thor and Black Widow are than the X-men.

So, CLEARLY, YOU are defending non Marvel movies..... cool. I'm not in that arguement. I have not seen Hulk, Thor #2 or Cap #2 either. I'm not in the what movies are better game, I'm in the do what you have to to get your properties back game. Kill Wollvie and deadpol, do it. End the X men books, do it.

Are the X men movie plot points and character use better than Marvel movies..... I don't know. I have not seen them.

So....... continue your debate with them dudes.
I'm all about the business.
My message to Marvel is ..... kill em all, end all the books. Keep making movies that make multiple millions of dollars. The comic industry is BOOMING!!!!! I have 3 BIG shows this calendar year, keep going Marvel.

Oh.... and for the record, DC, GET IT TOGETHER!

[Elveen]

Elveen explained his point pretty concisely

Someone got it together.

[Chiclo]

1) Second & third string characters: Although I have known of them for some time now, ever heard of a non-comic book person mention they wanted Bishop, Blink, Sunspot, Quicksilver or Warpath in a movie? That's quite a few third-string characters thrown into a main movie. Risk? Fox took it.

The risk would have been making a Bishop movie. Fox made an X-Men movie that just so happened to have second and third string characters along with their main characters.

So that Deadpool movie approved for 2016 - not risky?

They sell Deadpool posters at Wal-Mart. I think Deadpool has stepped up his star power lately.

[bosco685]

Elveen explained his point pretty concisely

Someone got it together.

Someone states something you agree with. So they got it together. The internet. What a fun place.

So, CLEARLY, YOU are defending non Marvel movies..... cool. I'm not in that arguement. I have not seen Hulk, Thor #2 or Cap #2 either. I'm not in the what movies are better game, I'm in the do what you have to to get your properties back game. Kill Wollvie and deadpol, do it. End the X men books, do it.

Are the X men movie plot points and character use better than Marvel movies..... I don't know. I have not seen them.

So....... continue your debate with them dudes.
I'm all about the business.
My message to Marvel is ..... kill em all, end all the books. Keep making movies that make multiple millions of dollars. The comic industry is BOOMING!!!!! I have 3 BIG shows this calendar year, keep going Marvel.

Oh.... and for the record, DC, GET IT TOGETHER!

Like you are saying I misread your intent, it looks like mine has gotten by you too. Let me make sure I set this out crystal clear for you.

1) To say Marvel is making a very wise decision in canceling comics that are incubators for future movie scripts is very shortsighted. I've said that a couple of times now, but you may have gotten fixated on how I interpreted your intent.

2) You are taking the debate of how Fox has done early on and lately as a 'their movies are better than Marvel' or vice versa. Go back and read what I posted. It was clearly stating Fox is doing great things now after going off the rails for a few movie releases (Last Stand, Origins). So Marvel taking the stance of attacking that new energy with canceling comics rather than figuring out how to tap into the partnership again is not good business.

That clear now?

[bosco685]

1) Second & third string characters: Although I have known of them for some time now, ever heard of a non-comic book person mention they wanted Bishop, Blink, Sunspot, Quicksilver or Warpath in a movie? That's quite a few third-string characters thrown into a main movie. Risk? Fox took it.

The risk would have been making a Bishop movie. Fox made an X-Men movie that just so happened to have second and third string characters along with their main characters.

So that Deadpool movie approved for 2016 - not risky?

They sell Deadpool posters at Wal-Mart. I think Deadpool has stepped up his star power lately.

Ever since that movie news came out, New Mutants 98 CGC 9.8s have gone from $400 to $750-$1,000 (and higher).

[Elveen]

And with Elveen, that post he made implied the 'Magic of Marvel' could do the same thing for the Inhumans that it did for Guardians. I'd like to see that, as I was a long-time Marvel reader. But we shall see, as I never make the mistake of assuming historic wins always equals future wins. Better to all Marvel Studios to prove itself each time.

.

I'm the kind of guy that sees 1.7 Bill spent (on 10 different movies) and 7 bill made and thinks.....

"hey, these dudes got something going on here"

I remember when Doc 1st told me about the Guardians (remember I knew [and to a large extend still know] very little about the larger comic industry). He told me that he thought that Rocket would be the break out star of the upcoming guardians movie. He had a few copies of Hulk #271 that he bought for like $4 and he sold them at a show and did VERY VERY well. This was waaaaaaay back, like a year and a half ago. It was the 1st app of Rocket Raccoon! Who????? I remember asking him......

"wait, it's a talking raccoon with a gun? does he have powers?"

So, you dont think Black Bolt or Medusa or Black Panther can be just as popular?
You can't see Black Blot t-shirts with a saying like.... "The Strong Slient Type"

Again.... not saying that the X movies have been bad, I've liked them all.

[Chiclo]

Elveen explained his point pretty concisely

Someone got it together.

Someone states something you agree with. So they got it together. The internet. What a fun place.

[Elveen]

Elveen explained his point pretty concisely

Someone got it together.

Someone states something you agree with. So they got it together. The internet. What a fun place.

No, someone understood clearly from the beginning.

Hence = Got it together.

Listen to the podcast, my best friends rarely agree with me. I'm not the agreeable type.

[bosco685]

And with Elveen, that post he made implied the 'Magic of Marvel' could do the same thing for the Inhumans that it did for Guardians. I'd like to see that, as I was a long-time Marvel reader. But we shall see, as I never make the mistake of assuming historic wins always equals future wins. Better to all Marvel Studios to prove itself each time.

.

I'm the kind of guy that sees 1.7 Bill spent (on 10 different movies) and 7 bill made and thinks.....

"hey, these dudes got something going on here"

I remember when Doc 1st told me about the Guardians (remember I knew [and to a large extend still know] very little about the larger comic industry). He told me that he thought that Rocket would be the break out star of the upcoming guardians movie. He had a few copies of Hulk #271 that he bought for like $4 and he sold them at a show and did VERY VERY well. This was waaaaaaay back, like a year and a half ago. It was the 1st app of Rocket Raccoon! Who????? I remember asking him......

"wait, it's a talking raccoon with a gun? does he have powers?"

So, you dont think Black Bolt or Medusa or Black Panther can be just as popular?
You can't see Black Blot t-shirts with a saying like.... "The Strong Slient Type"

Again.... not saying that the X movies have been bad, I've liked them all.

So I interpreted what you said originally correctly, which goes beyond 'Should Marvel cancel its X-Men and Fantastic Four comics to spite Fox' as a Yea or Nay response. It is assuming any of Marvel's other properties can be just as successful as Guardians. See - straightforward interpretation. No worries.

As far as Marvel cranking out $7 billion in revenue (don't assume that to be profit) based on a $1.7 billion budget, it is truly to its credit Marvel Studios has pulled off such a win. Though it was the past few years that really delivered the bigger numbers since Avengers came out (Iron Man hit 4X budget because it was so amazingly executed and unique; nothing like it had been done before).

Now as far as other studios succeeding, Sony was on an amazing ride during the Raimi days. Then it totally blew it. But those early days were so successful, Sony achieved $4 billion on a $1.1 billion budget (3.5X), and Fox blowing its early wins with some real bombs took them off the winning track for a while. But with the recent productions, it has made $3.1 billion on a $1 billion budget (3.0) only because those early and later movies were so strong.

[Elveen]

Like you are saying I misread your intent, it looks like mine has gotten by you too. Let me make sure I set this out crystal clear for you.

1) To say Marvel is making a very wise decision in canceling comics that are incubators for future movie scripts is very shortsighted. I've said that a couple of times now, but you may have gotten fixated on how I interpreted your intent.

2) You are taking the debate of how Fox has done early on and lately as a 'their movies are better than Marvel' or vice versa. Go back and read what I posted. It was clearly stating Fox is doing great things now after going off the rails for a few movie releases (Last Stand, Origins). So Marvel taking the stance of attacking that new energy with canceling comics rather than figuring out how to tap into the partnership again is not good business.

That clear now?

ok. I disagree with you that "canceling comics that are incubators for future movie scripts is very shortsighted" Why write future stories for someone else at worst or at best, for characters that you can't capitalize on.

When I was a basketball coach, and I came up with a great out of bounds play, guarenteed to get a bucket. You know what I did, I ran that play for my team. Not the competition.

So, I disagree with your point. How about make great Star Wars, or Avengers, or Inhumans, or Guardians, or Runaways or any of the other thousands of characters they own comic books. That's what I would do.


Point #2, they don't have a partnership. To think they do is to not understand business.
My perfect show would be SDCC crowds with only Elveen's Comics as a vendor. That's what I'm talking about.


and again..... I was NEVER in the agruing which studio made the better movie business.

[slym2none]

Bosco - your CGC is showing.





-slym

[bosco685]

Elveen explained his point pretty concisely

Someone got it together.

Someone states something you agree with. So they got it together. The internet. What a fun place.

I had a friend that went to Dragon Con to get a signature from Levar Burton. But some CGC signature friends got in ahead of him. They asked Burton to mess with him by refusing to sign his books. The look on that guys face being told 'NOT FOR YOU PAL' had to be priceless.

They hugged later.

[bosco685]

Bosco - your CGC is showing.





-slym

Nah. There were just a few with their Marvel shades on thinking anything that company does now is a wise decision. Not always. Not when you are about to shoot some of your Top 50 books to spite a contracted partner (call it what you want, but Marvel has a contract with Fox that is considered a creative distribution partnership).

[Elveen]

And with Elveen, that post he made implied the 'Magic of Marvel' could do the same thing for the Inhumans that it did for Guardians. I'd like to see that, as I was a long-time Marvel reader. But we shall see, as I never make the mistake of assuming historic wins always equals future wins. Better to all Marvel Studios to prove itself each time.

.

I'm the kind of guy that sees 1.7 Bill spent (on 10 different movies) and 7 bill made and thinks.....

"hey, these dudes got something going on here"

I remember when Doc 1st told me about the Guardians (remember I knew [and to a large extend still know] very little about the larger comic industry). He told me that he thought that Rocket would be the break out star of the upcoming guardians movie. He had a few copies of Hulk #271 that he bought for like $4 and he sold them at a show and did VERY VERY well. This was waaaaaaay back, like a year and a half ago. It was the 1st app of Rocket Raccoon! Who????? I remember asking him......

"wait, it's a talking raccoon with a gun? does he have powers?"

So, you dont think Black Bolt or Medusa or Black Panther can be just as popular?
You can't see Black Blot t-shirts with a saying like.... "The Strong Slient Type"

Again.... not saying that the X movies have been bad, I've liked them all.

So I interpreted what you said originally correctly, which goes beyond 'Should Marvel cancel its X-Men and Fantastic Four comics to spite Fox' as a Yea or Nay response. It is assuming any of Marvel's other properties can be just as successful as Guardians. See - straightforward interpretation. No worries.

As far as Marvel cranking out $7 billion in revenue (don't assume that to be profit) based on a $1.7 billion budget, it is truly to its credit Marvel Studios has pulled off such a win. Though it was the past few years that really delivered the bigger numbers since Avengers came out (Iron Man hit 4X budget because it was so amazingly executed and unique; nothing like it had been done before).

Now as far as other studios succeeding, Sony was on an amazing ride during the Raimi days. Then it totally blew it. But those early days were so successful, Sony achieved $4 billion on a $1.1 billion budget (3.5X), and Fox blowing its early wins with some real bombs took them off the winning track for a while. But with the recent productions, it has made $3.1 billion on a $1 billion budget (3.0) only because those early and later movies were so strong.

Honestly Bro, I think we are talking a different language. but I'll keep stating my same single point if you like. It's like you are having a different conversation than I am.

[bosco685]

Point #2, they don't have a partnership. To think they do is to not understand business.
My perfect show would be SDCC crowds with only Elveen's Comics as a vendor. That's what I'm talking about.


and again..... I was NEVER in the agruing which studio made the better movie business.

What plays at the beginning of every Fox produced Marvel movie? What animated spot clarifying who they produced this movie with as a partnership?

I'll give you a moment to go pop in any Marvel-focused movie of the past few years. Let me know what comes up?

[Elveen]

Bosco - your CGC is showing.





-slym

Nah. There were just a few with their Marvel shades on thinking anything that company does now is a wise decision. Not always. Not when you are about to shoot some of your Top 50 books to spite a contracted partner (call it what you want, but Marvel has a contract with Fox that is considered a creative distribution partnership).

Marvel shades? I'm the farthest thing from that. I did not even read comics growing up. I'm a Valiant fan and a business man.

Cue George Takei..... "oh my"

[bosco685]

Honestly Bro, I think we are talking a different language. but I'll keep stating my same single point if you like. It's like you are having a different conversation than I am.

Oh, I like that. We are bros now. And I mean that in a good way - not a confrontational way.



Hey bro. Just reading what you posted.

So, you dont think Black Bolt or Medusa or Black Panther can be just as popular?
You can't see Black Blot t-shirts with a saying like.... "The Strong Slient Type"

In your clearest way possible, interpret this for me?

[bosco685]

Bosco - your CGC is showing.





-slym

Nah. There were just a few with their Marvel shades on thinking anything that company does now is a wise decision. Not always. Not when you are about to shoot some of your Top 50 books to spite a contracted partner (call it what you want, but Marvel has a contract with Fox that is considered a creative distribution partnership).

Marvel shades? I'm the farthest thing from that. I did not even read comics growing up. I'm a Valiant fan and a business man.

Cue George Takei..... "oh my"

Bro, were you the only one responding to my posts in this thread, or did you miss all those other responses? Did you see 'Elveen said' anywhere up there?

And if you are going to quote it, ya gotta do it right.

[Elveen]

Point #2, they don't have a partnership. To think they do is to not understand business.
My perfect show would be SDCC crowds with only Elveen's Comics as a vendor. That's what I'm talking about.


and again..... I was NEVER in the agruing which studio made the better movie business.

What plays at the beginning of every Fox produced Marvel movie? What animated spot clarifying who they produced this movie with as a partnership?

I'll give you a moment to go pop in any Marvel-focused movie of the past few years. Let me know what comes up?

I don't have any comic book moives.

You ever been to a sporting event, football game? Basketball game? I've been fortunate to go to a bunch of Raiders games and outside of EVERY game was a dude selling bootleg t-shirts. Do you know what was on them? Raider Helmets and Raider jerseys and Raider Shields..... do you know how much $$$$ the Radiers got from the sale of those shirts?

I'll give you a moment to look in an empty wallet and tell me what you see.

(BTW, I had a shirt that said "In Tood Marjuanavich we trust")

[Elveen]

Honestly Bro, I think we are talking a different language. but I'll keep stating my same single point if you like. It's like you are having a different conversation than I am.

Oh, I like that. We are bros now. And I mean that in a good way - not a confrontational way.



Hey bro. Just reading what you posted.

So, you dont think Black Bolt or Medusa or Black Panther can be just as popular?
You can't see Black Blot t-shirts with a saying like.... "The Strong Slient Type"

In your clearest way possible, interpret this for me?

Ok.
Marvel CAN play hardball with the other studios cause they DONT need the X men and Spidey and FF movies to make BIG PHAT $$$$. They can make the Inhumans movie (which they are). My point is that they can make $$$ off of other characters until their hardball strategy gets them the X men and the FF and such.

and even if the hardball stratgey does not work, the Inhumans #2 will do 700 mill worldwide in 2019 or 2020. So what do they lose?

[bosco685]

I don't have any comic book moives.

You ever been to a sporting event, football game? Basketball game? I've been fortunate to go to a bunch of Raiders games and outside of EVERY game was a dude selling bootleg t-shirts. Do you know what was on them? Raider Helmets and Raider jerseys and Raider Shields..... do you know how much $$$$ the Radiers got from the sale of those shirts?

I'll give you a moment to look in an empty wallet and tell me what you see.

(BTW, I had a shirt that said "In Tood Marjuanavich we trust")

Now you are just arguing to argue.

Comparing what the folks selling outside a sports arena are offering that has NO CONTRACT with the stadium or teams doesn't even compare. But I am sure it gave you a tiny giggle.



Hey, I did check my wallet. Who took my $20 bill?

[Elveen]

I don't have any comic book moives.

You ever been to a sporting event, football game? Basketball game? I've been fortunate to go to a bunch of Raiders games and outside of EVERY game was a dude selling bootleg t-shirts. Do you know what was on them? Raider Helmets and Raider jerseys and Raider Shields..... do you know how much $$$$ the Radiers got from the sale of those shirts?

I'll give you a moment to look in an empty wallet and tell me what you see.

(BTW, I had a shirt that said "In Tood Marjuanavich we trust")

Now you are just arguing to argue.

Comparing what the folks selling outside a sports arena are offering that has NO CONTRACT with the stadium or teams doesn't even compare. But I am sure it gave you a tiny giggle.



Hey, I did check my wallet. Who took my $20 bill?

The point is that Marvel gets no movie $$$$ from the "Marvel characters" in the movies.
Pretty clear and valid comparision I'd say.