August 2014 Sales Discussion

[comicsyte95]

Solar would be cool in Valiant but It doesn't have to include him.However it would make the VEI universe even better if that's possible.

[hawkeyeps]

What about Erica? She is 100% Valiant.

[comicsyte95]

What about Erica? She is 100% Valiant.

Hope she appears in a future arc sometime.

[Ramses818]

I hope they leave the gold keys characters alone. 3 years and they are doing a fine job lets leave them to there plan, I think it is working out just fine.

[jmatt]

Re: GK3 characters - I don't think VEI needs them, but I want them! Especially Solar!

Also, krylox was being positive - this thread is broken.

Not a comment on whether VEI "needs" the GK properties or anything, but can you imagine the explosion in interest if they re-introduced Magnus and Solar? (Turok, not so much)

[leonmallett]

Or maybe it's because VEI ships on time, every issue, every week, every month

Even if other publishers ship on time, when they skip months between issues, they aren't selling as many books as it seems.

Valiant sells 8,000 copies of a book for 12 months. That's 96,000 books.

Other publisher sells 13,000 copies of a book they publish 5 times a year. That's 65,000 books.

Why can't Valiant sell 13,000 copies? What's wrong with Valiant? Why only 8,000 and not 13,000?

Has the other publisher actually done better than Valiant?

There are definitely two (or more) ways of looking at it, which your point neatly illustrates greg. The 8000 book may give better cash-flow, but maybe with smaller margins.

VEI clearly have a plan (even if the plan is not clear to fans). By and large it seems to be working from their messages. I would still argue at their typical current monthly sales per issue they need more books if they want to grow. A real break-out hit would not hurt, but that is like catching lightning in a bottle isn't it?

[krylox]

Re: GK3 characters - I don't think VEI needs them, but I want them! Especially Solar!

Also, krylox was being positive - this thread is broken.

[Chiclo]

so how bad do the numbers have to get for Dynamite to give up on Dynakey?

I don't think it would be so much sales numbers but higher issue numbers that gets Dynamite to give up on Dynakey.

"Issue 10? Man, who can deal with that much backstory? This is like pre-Crisis DC."

[greg]

so how bad do the numbers have to get for Dynamite to give up on Dynakey?

I don't think it would be so much sales numbers but higher issue numbers that gets Dynamite to give up on Dynakey.

"Issue 10? Man, who can deal with that much backstory? This is like pre-Crisis DC."

Issue 10 usually means 40 months of publishing, though.

[MarkRoseHFX]

so how bad do the numbers have to get for Dynamite to give up on Dynakey?

I don't think it would be so much sales numbers but higher issue numbers that gets Dynamite to give up on Dynakey.

"Issue 10? Man, who can deal with that much backstory? This is like pre-Crisis DC."

Issue 10 usually means 40 months of publishing, though.

I believe the term for that is a Liefeld schedule

[lorddunlow]

so how bad do the numbers have to get for Dynamite to give up on Dynakey?

I don't think it would be so much sales numbers but higher issue numbers that gets Dynamite to give up on Dynakey.

"Issue 10? Man, who can deal with that much backstory? This is like pre-Crisis DC."

Issue 10 usually means 40 months of publishing, though.

so how bad do the numbers have to get for Dynamite to give up on Dynakey?

I don't think it would be so much sales numbers but higher issue numbers that gets Dynamite to give up on Dynakey.

"Issue 10? Man, who can deal with that much backstory? This is like pre-Crisis DC."

[ShadowTuga]

so how bad do the numbers have to get for Dynamite to give up on Dynakey?

I don't think it would be so much sales numbers but higher issue numbers that gets Dynamite to give up on Dynakey.

"Issue 10? Man, who can deal with that much backstory? This is like pre-Crisis DC."

Best post of the day.

[leonmallett]

so how bad do the numbers have to get for Dynamite to give up on Dynakey?

I don't think it would be so much sales numbers but higher issue numbers that gets Dynamite to give up on Dynakey.

"Issue 10? Man, who can deal with that much backstory? This is like pre-Crisis DC."

[Donovan]

First off, imo, VEI does NOT need these characters. That's just me.

On the flip side, Solar is the only one I wouldn't care to have back. Magnus would be a great addition to 4001, although technically EW fills that space well.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I don't miss any of the GK characters. I think what we have is more concentrated, and better than VH1, dare I say. I think having someone like Solar will make every other character have a power creep up to that level so they can "compete" with him somehow. His power set doesn't really mesh with what's going on in VEI right now. Would alter the current universe too much IMO. And or Magnus and Turok, I just don't see a place for them at the moment.

[RogueJedi74]

I would love to see Solar back in the mix. I believe that VEI has done an amazing job making Harada into one the premier characters in the universe. But I love Solar vs. Pierce in VH1. So Solar coming in to deal with Harada would be great.

I also loved Magnus back in the day and it would be great to see a twist on his origin story by Kindt.

Turok can just be a side character. No love for him

[StarBrand]

X-O seems to have increased by 500 books vs the previous month! That would be significant if sales have leveled off at the 9,000-9,500 range on this book!

[erwinrafael]

Seeing the sales on Archer and Armstrong, i am fully supporting the closure of Volume 1, and I am hoping a big push for a Volume 2 relaunch. And I hope FVL would still be at the helm.

A&A is a beneficiary of having a great creative team with one working in books outside VEI, of having good word-of-mouth publicity with excellent reviews and award nominations, and having a crossover with another VEI book. Sadly, you can only do so much in this market to boost the sales of an ongoing. This kind of reminds me of what happened with Waid's Daredevil whose Eisner-credentials has been publicized to death but still never got a second wind in terms of sales. If A&A has to be relaunched to get the sales numbers up, then VEI should do so.

[krylox]

Seeing the sales on Archer and Armstrong, i am fully supporting the closure of Volume 1, and I am hoping a big push for a Volume 2 relaunch. And I hope FVL would still be at the helm.

A&A is a beneficiary of having a great creative team with one working in books outside VEI, of having good word-of-mouth publicity with excellent reviews and award nominations, and having a crossover with another VEI book. Sadly, you can only do so much in this market to boost the sales of an ongoing. This kind of reminds me of what happened with Waid's Daredevil whose Eisner-credentials has been publicized to death but still never got a second wind in terms of sales. If A&A has to be relaunched to get the sales numbers up, then VEI should do so.

frankly, i wouldn't hold my breath. i'm pretty sure they will go the "occasional mini-series" route with them. next up could be a anni-padda-bros. mini, to be released after the recently announced eternal warrior one.
btw, this kind of mixing existing properties into new minis (>delinquents, the valiant) is a pretty novel and innovative way of publishing your characters. it's finite stories, which fit perfectly into a paperback, great for new readers, feels always kind of fresh... props to vei for the puzzle-publising-idea!

[erwinrafael]

Seeing the sales on Archer and Armstrong, i am fully supporting the closure of Volume 1, and I am hoping a big push for a Volume 2 relaunch. And I hope FVL would still be at the helm.

A&A is a beneficiary of having a great creative team with one working in books outside VEI, of having good word-of-mouth publicity with excellent reviews and award nominations, and having a crossover with another VEI book. Sadly, you can only do so much in this market to boost the sales of an ongoing. This kind of reminds me of what happened with Waid's Daredevil whose Eisner-credentials has been publicized to death but still never got a second wind in terms of sales. If A&A has to be relaunched to get the sales numbers up, then VEI should do so.

frankly, i wouldn't hold my breath. i'm pretty sure they will go the "occasional mini-series" route with them. next up could be a anni-padda-bros. mini, to be released after the recently announced eternal warrior one.
btw, this kind of mixing existing properties into new minis (>delinquents, the valiant) is a pretty novel and innovative way of publishing your characters. it's finite stories, which fit perfectly into a paperback, great for new readers, feels always kind of fresh... props to vei for the puzzle-publising-idea!

I would support that initiative too. Actually, my point is that the days when ongoings are sacred cows should be over, as there is really very small chances of reigniting sales for an ongoing in today's market. And I fully support VEI for pulling the plug on ongoings that are not financially sustainable.

[kjjohanson]

Seeing the sales on Archer and Armstrong, i am fully supporting the closure of Volume 1, and I am hoping a big push for a Volume 2 relaunch. And I hope FVL would still be at the helm.

A&A is a beneficiary of having a great creative team with one working in books outside VEI, of having good word-of-mouth publicity with excellent reviews and award nominations, and having a crossover with another VEI book. Sadly, you can only do so much in this market to boost the sales of an ongoing. This kind of reminds me of what happened with Waid's Daredevil whose Eisner-credentials has been publicized to death but still never got a second wind in terms of sales. If A&A has to be relaunched to get the sales numbers up, then VEI should do so.

frankly, i wouldn't hold my breath. i'm pretty sure they will go the "occasional mini-series" route with them. next up could be a anni-padda-bros. mini, to be released after the recently announced eternal warrior one.
btw, this kind of mixing existing properties into new minis (>delinquents, the valiant) is a pretty novel and innovative way of publishing your characters. it's finite stories, which fit perfectly into a paperback, great for new readers, feels always kind of fresh... props to vei for the puzzle-publising-idea!

I would support that initiative too. Actually, my point is that the days when ongoings are sacred cows should be over, as there is really very small chances of reigniting sales for an ongoing in today's market. And I fully support VEI for pulling the plug on ongoings that are not financially sustainable.

I think publishing this way makes it a lot easier to make sure that every story matters. It's also a good way to ensure that anything *could* happen.

[leonmallett]

Seeing the sales on Archer and Armstrong, i am fully supporting the closure of Volume 1, and I am hoping a big push for a Volume 2 relaunch. And I hope FVL would still be at the helm.

A&A is a beneficiary of having a great creative team with one working in books outside VEI, of having good word-of-mouth publicity with excellent reviews and award nominations, and having a crossover with another VEI book. Sadly, you can only do so much in this market to boost the sales of an ongoing. This kind of reminds me of what happened with Waid's Daredevil whose Eisner-credentials has been publicized to death but still never got a second wind in terms of sales. If A&A has to be relaunched to get the sales numbers up, then VEI should do so.

frankly, i wouldn't hold my breath. i'm pretty sure they will go the "occasional mini-series" route with them. next up could be a anni-padda-bros. mini, to be released after the recently announced eternal warrior one.
btw, this kind of mixing existing properties into new minis (>delinquents, the valiant) is a pretty novel and innovative way of publishing your characters. it's finite stories, which fit perfectly into a paperback, great for new readers, feels always kind of fresh... props to vei for the puzzle-publising-idea!

I would support that initiative too. Actually, my point is that the days when ongoings are sacred cows should be over, as there is really very small chances of reigniting sales for an ongoing in today's market. And I fully support VEI for pulling the plug on ongoings that are not financially sustainable.

Counterpoint: are issues 1-3/1-4 selling as well in minis as ongoings for VALIANT?

[krylox]

Seeing the sales on Archer and Armstrong, i am fully supporting the closure of Volume 1, and I am hoping a big push for a Volume 2 relaunch. And I hope FVL would still be at the helm.

A&A is a beneficiary of having a great creative team with one working in books outside VEI, of having good word-of-mouth publicity with excellent reviews and award nominations, and having a crossover with another VEI book. Sadly, you can only do so much in this market to boost the sales of an ongoing. This kind of reminds me of what happened with Waid's Daredevil whose Eisner-credentials has been publicized to death but still never got a second wind in terms of sales. If A&A has to be relaunched to get the sales numbers up, then VEI should do so.

frankly, i wouldn't hold my breath. i'm pretty sure they will go the "occasional mini-series" route with them. next up could be a anni-padda-bros. mini, to be released after the recently announced eternal warrior one.
btw, this kind of mixing existing properties into new minis (>delinquents, the valiant) is a pretty novel and innovative way of publishing your characters. it's finite stories, which fit perfectly into a paperback, great for new readers, feels always kind of fresh... props to vei for the puzzle-publising-idea!

I would support that initiative too. Actually, my point is that the days when ongoings are sacred cows should be over, as there is really very small chances of reigniting sales for an ongoing in today's market. And I fully support VEI for pulling the plug on ongoings that are not financially sustainable.

Counterpoint: are issues 1-3/1-4 selling as well in minis as ongoings for VALIANT?

by now, the difference is pretty small. an ongoing will probably forever have a higher print run for the first (few) issue(s), sure. but the numbers drop fast after that. happens especially with valiant, unfortunately (> see unity). this is also something which doesn't necessarily build trust amongst retailers. i really think mini series are the way to go. which also means, fans have to be more informed and pre-order, so that they don't miss out.

also, let's not fool ourselves: one shouldn't really talk about ongoings anymore. i think except for 10 books or so, as soon as they pass into their 30s, their life span is HEAVILY endagered.
they should be called "really long maxi-series" or so.

i know there is spawn and walking dead, but they are relicts from ancient times...

[Ramses818]

Seeing the sales on Archer and Armstrong, i am fully supporting the closure of Volume 1, and I am hoping a big push for a Volume 2 relaunch. And I hope FVL would still be at the helm.

A&A is a beneficiary of having a great creative team with one working in books outside VEI, of having good word-of-mouth publicity with excellent reviews and award nominations, and having a crossover with another VEI book. Sadly, you can only do so much in this market to boost the sales of an ongoing. This kind of reminds me of what happened with Waid's Daredevil whose Eisner-credentials has been publicized to death but still never got a second wind in terms of sales. If A&A has to be relaunched to get the sales numbers up, then VEI should do so.

frankly, i wouldn't hold my breath. i'm pretty sure they will go the "occasional mini-series" route with them. next up could be a anni-padda-bros. mini, to be released after the recently announced eternal warrior one.
btw, this kind of mixing existing properties into new minis (>delinquents, the valiant) is a pretty novel and innovative way of publishing your characters. it's finite stories, which fit perfectly into a paperback, great for new readers, feels always kind of fresh... props to vei for the puzzle-publising-idea!

I would support that initiative too. Actually, my point is that the days when ongoings are sacred cows should be over, as there is really very small chances of reigniting sales for an ongoing in today's market. And I fully support VEI for pulling the plug on ongoings that are not financially sustainable.

Counterpoint: are issues 1-3/1-4 selling as well in minis as ongoings for VALIANT?

by now, the difference is pretty small. an ongoing will probably forever have a higher print run for the first (few) issue(s), sure. but the numbers drop fast after that. happens especially with valiant, unfortunately (> see unity). this is also something which doesn't necessarily build trust amongst retailers. i really think mini series are the way to go. which also means, fans have to be more informed and pre-order, so that they don't miss out.

also, let's not fool ourselves: one shouldn't really talk about ongoings anymore. i think except for 10 books or so, as soon as they pass into their 30s, their life span is HEAVILY endagered.
they should be called "really long maxi-series" or so.

i know there is spawn and walking dead, but they are relicts from ancient times...

I think that kind of thinking is what hurts. What helps drive back issue value? Longevity. Do you think that Action Comics 1 sold for 3.2 million is just because it is Superman? If that was the case why hasn't Whiz 1 sold for that or even close? Captain Marvel debuted only a few months after Superman. There is a long standing precedent of long series with low sales numbers becoming very hot again. That maybe because of a artist...Amazing Spider Man 298, Uncanny X Men 268 as a couple examples (have to keep this down or my rant will be too long!). Or a new character... Amazing Spider Man 300 and 361, Uncanny X Men 266, New Mutants 98, (and really I could give dozens of examples of this!) but the bigger reason maybe because collectors come and go for a variety of reasons but when they come back they start looking for the characters they read when they were young... Spider Man, Batman, Superman, X Men, X-O Manowar, etc. we see that in New people joining this board now. A mini series is fun and all but they will never become as valuable or drive demand as much as a regular long running series as a rule. Yes not every story arc will be a winner but people will always still collect runs. If you have a great mini put it in the regular series and people will seek it out. Again I could give more examples but this post is long enough! Lol. And yes I know I am more than a little but I am very passionate. All done with my

[ilzuccone]

Seeing the sales on Archer and Armstrong, i am fully supporting the closure of Volume 1, and I am hoping a big push for a Volume 2 relaunch. And I hope FVL would still be at the helm.

A&A is a beneficiary of having a great creative team with one working in books outside VEI, of having good word-of-mouth publicity with excellent reviews and award nominations, and having a crossover with another VEI book. Sadly, you can only do so much in this market to boost the sales of an ongoing. This kind of reminds me of what happened with Waid's Daredevil whose Eisner-credentials has been publicized to death but still never got a second wind in terms of sales. If A&A has to be relaunched to get the sales numbers up, then VEI should do so.

frankly, i wouldn't hold my breath. i'm pretty sure they will go the "occasional mini-series" route with them. next up could be a anni-padda-bros. mini, to be released after the recently announced eternal warrior one.
btw, this kind of mixing existing properties into new minis (>delinquents, the valiant) is a pretty novel and innovative way of publishing your characters. it's finite stories, which fit perfectly into a paperback, great for new readers, feels always kind of fresh... props to vei for the puzzle-publising-idea!

I would support that initiative too. Actually, my point is that the days when ongoings are sacred cows should be over, as there is really very small chances of reigniting sales for an ongoing in today's market. And I fully support VEI for pulling the plug on ongoings that are not financially sustainable.

Counterpoint: are issues 1-3/1-4 selling as well in minis as ongoings for VALIANT?

by now, the difference is pretty small. an ongoing will probably forever have a higher print run for the first (few) issue(s), sure. but the numbers drop fast after that. happens especially with valiant, unfortunately (> see unity). this is also something which doesn't necessarily build trust amongst retailers. i really think mini series are the way to go. which also means, fans have to be more informed and pre-order, so that they don't miss out.

also, let's not fool ourselves: one shouldn't really talk about ongoings anymore. i think except for 10 books or so, as soon as they pass into their 30s, their life span is HEAVILY endagered.
they should be called "really long maxi-series" or so.

i know there is spawn and walking dead, but they are relicts from ancient times...

I think that kind of thinking is what hurts. What helps drive back issue value? Longevity. Do you think that Action Comics 1 sold for 3.2 million is just because it is Superman? If that was the case why hasn't Whiz 1 sold for that or even close? Captain Marvel debuted only a few months after Superman. There is a long standing precedent of long series with low sales numbers becoming very hot again. That maybe because of a artist...Amazing Spider Man 298, Uncanny X Men 268 as a couple examples (have to keep this down or my rant will be too long!). Or a new character... Amazing Spider Man 300 and 361, Uncanny X Men 266, New Mutants 98, (and really I could give dozens of examples of this!) but the bigger reason maybe because collectors come and go for a variety of reasons but when they come back they start looking for the characters they read when they were young... Spider Man, Batman, Superman, X Men, X-O Manowar, etc. we see that in New people joining this board now. A mini series is fun and all but they will never become as valuable or drive demand as much as a regular long running series as a rule. Yes not every story arc will be a winner but people will always still collect runs. If you have a great mini put it in the regular series and people will seek it out. Again I could give more examples but this post is long enough! Lol. And yes I know I am more than a little but I am very passionate. All done with my

It's important to point out here that there are a few different types of collectors. Sorry to say but i think the trend in comics is geared towards people like me.

I for one will drop a title at the first hint of it being uninteresting/ poorly made. even if a creator i love is working on the title. I couldn't give a squee about runs.

It is also extremely difficult to get me to buy a book that is over three issues old. why buy a series i could never catch up on when there are plenty of new good series to check out?