Valiant brings back chromium covers for Armor Hunters

[krylox]

... and the milking of the die-hard fans continues...

this has gotten really ugly, especially since unity #1.

but i guess, if you can't attract new readers and come up with exciting new concepts (instead of keep rehashing old ones), if you only cater to the nostalgia and die-hard fans, who are more than willing to shed their money for variants and gimmicks and re-interpretations of their fav characters from childhood, i guess this is the way to go for vei.

lost all hope this venture can turn into something memorable (like the original first valiant years).

really, really dissapointed.

however, good luck with the milking-strategy, vei, and goodbye from me.

Um, I'm pretty sure there are new people reading VEI, and I am also sure that all comicbook companies mix a bit of nostalgia and innovation together to survive in a, dare I say, highly demanding comicbook industry.

If VEI's release of a chromium cover causes your to stop collecting and/or reading their product, then I guess they simply failed to consider your feelings when they looked at the sales projections and data. Valiant has released fantastic work, both artistically and written since 2012. Their product has been top quality month after month (a point that both the critics, fans, and sales have agreed on).

Sorry if their innovations and/or desire to increase revenue to expand and grow as a company while meeting the needs of both new and old fans causes you to be "disappointed", but I do want you to know that you will be "missed" by all I'm sure.

DBS

thanks for the nice message. it's not the chromium alone, it's that what started out as a interesting new take on once beloved characters a) didn't evolve into something as exciting and novel and radical in a way how vh1 did back in the day, b) by now it fells very much like just another superhero universe with a few good books and some not so good ones c) the massive gimmickry of the last months, starting with unity #1 and now continuing with bagged comics (!), chromium covers (!!) and massive event crossovering... nah, just not my cup of tea.

i am sorry to see dysart&gage off bloodshot, also sorry to see dysart disappointed about the direction he has to take, dictated by editorial and the so-called needs of surviving. i totally get the economical pressure for doing some extra stuff besides crafting good stories. but you won't sell more books through stacking up the variants, shocking events (death of characters) or through chromium covers. this is super 90s and IF it does work for a specific audience, i think the big two are already catering to them.

for a new company only original and bold ideas will provide a growing readership. and those original and bold ideas don't happen at vei. sorry to say that, guys. i'm sure lots of you disagree. but if i compare vei's best output to the best of image or dc/vertigo, hell, even with dark horse (mind mgmt!)... it's not a complimentary thing to do for vei. their output is solid, is very professional, sometimes it's also good. but exceptional? innovative? nope.

i might pick up a trade or so in the future, like for example i'm still interested how kindt will write rai. but i will cancel my monthlies and am kind of thankful that armor hunters gives me a pretty good exit point.

it's not the chromium. but the chromium is a very good indicator about the state of thing at the company.

diclaimer: i don't want any valiant reader/fan to feel like i'm disrespectful to him/her. of course it's also a matter of taste. so, if you like the books vei is putting out, you should buy and read them, of course, chromium variant or not.

[lorddunlow]

Great - more gimmicks and a high cover price.

Welcome back, 1995.

:facepalm:



-slym

Kind of underwhelmed at the news. Gimmicks over content?

We don't even know what the content is yet. Maybe wait until the books actually come out for that judgment?

If anybody at VEI reads the posts here regularly (and I think Dino does), it must be really frustrating. We whine about numbers dwindling and start threads like "The Beginning of the End" with sky-is-falling talk that the company is failing. Then, when VEI actually takes a big action to promote and make themselves more visible to the comic buying community, we criticize them for not doing things the way we think they should.

If one doesn't like the chromium, so be it. Nobody is forced into buying a copy. I'm super excited - and told Dino so, as well as expressed interest months ago about VEI making chromium covers. I love them. They look cool as hell.

Also, more opportunities for a platinum error!

I still think the EW "hiatus" is due to something big that VEI has planned concerning the 4001 timeline. So far, I have seen no big missteps that VEI has taken. I know some criticized Shadowman early on, and I really think issues 12 and 13 (odd they skipped 11 ) were somewhat of a mistake, but overall they've done everything right. I'm more than happy with the products they have churned out.

As for comparisons with Image and Dark Horse, I'm with Mark - it's apples and oranges. I'm probably one of the biggest fans of Image since they announced the DRM-free digital issues. I read more Image titles than any other publisher, and my favorite books are all from Image. However, how many flops does Image churn out every single month? How many books fall to delays? How many books are canceled without tying up storylines all the time due to various reasons? Image is a great place because it allows MANY (literally anyone with a good idea and the talent to carry it out) to have a place to be published and get their material out for the mass to see, but as direct result of that the majority of their books are never successful. It's a good system, but to act like Image doesn't turn out stinkers just because they turn out some of the best comics in the industry is doing everyone else a disservice.

(This is a general rant, not directed at anyone)


(Unless you're Canadian, in which case, this as well as my feces are directed at you.)

[MarkRoseHFX]

(Unless you're Canadian, in which case, this as well as my feces are directed at you.)

I thought that was just your breath, didn't realize your fecal matter was involved as well.

[leonmallett]

Great - more gimmicks and a high cover price.

Welcome back, 1995.

:facepalm:



-slym

Kind of underwhelmed at the news. Gimmicks over content?

We don't even know what the content is yet. Maybe wait until the books actually come out for that judgment?

If anybody at VEI reads the posts here regularly (and I think Dino does), it must be really frustrating. We whine about numbers dwindling and start threads like "The Beginning of the End" with sky-is-falling talk that the company is failing. Then, when VEI actually takes a big action to promote and make themselves more visible to the comic buying community, we criticize them for not doing things the way we think they should.

If one doesn't like the chromium, so be it. Nobody is forced into buying a copy. I'm super excited - and told Dino so, as well as expressed interest months ago about VEI making chromium covers. I love them. They look cool as hell.

Also, more opportunities for a platinum error!

I still think the EW "hiatus" is due to something big that VEI has planned concerning the 4001 timeline. So far, I have seen no big missteps that VEI has taken. I know some criticized Shadowman early on, and I really think issues 12 and 13 (odd they skipped 11 ) were somewhat of a mistake, but overall they've done everything right. I'm more than happy with the products they have churned out.

As for comparisons with Image and Dark Horse, I'm with Mark - it's apples and oranges. I'm probably one of the biggest fans of Image since they announced the DRM-free digital issues. I read more Image titles than any other publisher, and my favorite books are all from Image. However, how many flops does Image churn out every single month? How many books fall to delays? How many books are canceled without tying up storylines all the time due to various reasons? Image is a great place because it allows MANY (literally anyone with a good idea and the talent to carry it out) to have a place to be published and get their material out for the mass to see, but as direct result of that the majority of their books are never successful. It's a good system, but to act like Image doesn't turn out stinkers just because they turn out some of the best comics in the industry is doing everyone else a disservice.

(This is a general rant, not directed at anyone)


(Unless you're Canadian, in which case, this as well as my feces are directed at you.)

Fair comment about waiting to see the content.

That said, personally I have been favourable about much of VEI's output (except Quantum and Woody which i think is awful, sorry to say), and even the books I felt were weak have grown, then suddenly we have books on imminent hiatus with little indication of if and when and what form they will return, lotsof announcements about first issues, and focus on other gimmicks (poly bags, unbelievable amount of variants for Unity #1, chromium covers).

However, in that context, then I think it is a fair question I posed (note the question mark) - are gimmicks (new #1's *seemingly* disrupting runs; poly bag issues; variant overload possibly; chromium covers) being pushed over the actual content?

[kjjohanson]

however, good luck with the milking-strategy, vei, and goodbye from me.

[depluto]

I googled "milking" and I don't think it means what you think it means ...

[The Dirt Gang]

sorry to see dysart disappointed about the direction he has to take, dictated by editorial and the so-called needs of surviving.

What's this about? I've been out of the loop for a few months. I've loved Dysart's work and I am sure he'll continue to do well with whatever constraints he is given but I'm curious as to what exactly he said in reference to being disappointed.

[jedimarley]

I googled "milking" and I don't think it means what you think it means ...

I would have used the term "anal-raped".

[jedimarley]

sorry to see dysart disappointed about the direction he has to take, dictated by editorial and the so-called needs of surviving.

What's this about? I've been out of the loop for a few months. I've loved Dysart's work and I am sure he'll continue to do well with whatever constraints he is given but I'm curious as to what exactly he said in reference to being disappointed.

It's from some of his Facebook posts. Dysarts Facebook posts.

[lorddunlow]

sorry to see dysart disappointed about the direction he has to take, dictated by editorial and the so-called needs of surviving.

What's this about? I've been out of the loop for a few months. I've loved Dysart's work and I am sure he'll continue to do well with whatever constraints he is given but I'm curious as to what exactly he said in reference to being disappointed.

It's from some of his Facebook posts. Dysarts Facebook posts.

And taken out of context, and blown way out of proportion by placing meaning where there may not have been any (of which I am guilty).

[rjrjr]

At first all the variants bothered me a bit but now I am okay with it. Whatever it takes for VEI to continue to produce a good product. Heck, I unfortunately, don't buy monthlies and wait for trades because it's more cost effective. My wife's education is getting in the way of my comics habit.

I've never understood the 90's backlash -- I loved all the "gimmick" covers then and still do, I still love flannel and 90's alternative music, bubble gum in baseball cards and Jodeci's first album always makes me nostalgic for the early Valiant days.

Alright, I'm going to go listen to a little Toad the Wet Sprocket.

You do know there is going to be story content in the Valiant First titles that won't be reprinted in the trades, correct?

[kjjohanson]

sorry to see dysart disappointed about the direction he has to take, dictated by editorial and the so-called needs of surviving.

What's this about? I've been out of the loop for a few months. I've loved Dysart's work and I am sure he'll continue to do well with whatever constraints he is given but I'm curious as to what exactly he said in reference to being disappointed.

Dysart tweeted something around the time the Death of a Harbinger arc was announced suggesting that he was being made to kill off someone to have an event arc. At least that's what's been posted here. I never read the original.

[Donovan]

however, good luck with the milking-strategy, vei, and goodbye from me.

Sorry to see you go. See you next week!

[rjrjr]

... and the milking of the die-hard fans continues...

this has gotten really ugly, especially since unity #1.

but i guess, if you can't attract new readers and come up with exciting new concepts (instead of keep rehashing old ones), if you only cater to the nostalgia and die-hard fans, who are more than willing to shed their money for variants and gimmicks and re-interpretations of their fav characters from childhood, i guess this is the way to go for vei.

lost all hope this venture can turn into something memorable (like the original first valiant years).

really, really dissapointed.

however, good luck with the milking-strategy, vei, and goodbye from me.

Um, I'm pretty sure there are new people reading VEI, and I am also sure that all comicbook companies mix a bit of nostalgia and innovation together to survive in a, dare I say, highly demanding comicbook industry.

If VEI's release of a chromium cover causes your to stop collecting and/or reading their product, then I guess they simply failed to consider your feelings when they looked at the sales projections and data. Valiant has released fantastic work, both artistically and written since 2012. Their product has been top quality month after month (a point that both the critics, fans, and sales have agreed on).

Sorry if their innovations and/or desire to increase revenue to expand and grow as a company while meeting the needs of both new and old fans causes you to be "disappointed", but I do want you to know that you will be "missed" by all I'm sure.

DBS

Amen, DBS!

Krylox, I don't see how these chromium covers are your breaking point. Did you think Invincible and TWD were jumping the shark when they released chromium covers? It's something fun if someone wants them (like me). The only variants I have that were above cover are a few golds and the Shadowman 1:20 and 1:50 that I got from Paradise as part of a set (I really got them for the print he did). I would say that the OCD 100% completionist collector would be the only type of fan that would be upset by the overwhelming number of variants. Those collectors probably account for less than 1% of VEI's customer base (and probably 75% of this boards members). I really don't care if it upsets you - it is obviously working to make VEI money and in the case of the chromium covers, is something that really excites me.

It's working? Have you see Valiants monthly numbers lately?

[jedimarley]

sorry to see dysart disappointed about the direction he has to take, dictated by editorial and the so-called needs of surviving.

What's this about? I've been out of the loop for a few months. I've loved Dysart's work and I am sure he'll continue to do well with whatever constraints he is given but I'm curious as to what exactly he said in reference to being disappointed.

It's from some of his Facebook posts. Dysarts Facebook posts.

And taken out of context, and blown way out of proportion by placing meaning where there may not have been any (of which I am guilty).

Dysarts a writer. A very good writer. He knows what he's doing when he puts stuff out on social media.

[The Dirt Gang]

At first all the variants bothered me a bit but now I am okay with it. Whatever it takes for VEI to continue to produce a good product. Heck, I unfortunately, don't buy monthlies and wait for trades because it's more cost effective. My wife's education is getting in the way of my comics habit.

I've never understood the 90's backlash -- I loved all the "gimmick" covers then and still do, I still love flannel and 90's alternative music, bubble gum in baseball cards and Jodeci's first album always makes me nostalgic for the early Valiant days.

Alright, I'm going to go listen to a little Toad the Wet Sprocket.

You do know there is going to be story content in the Valiant First titles that won't be reprinted in the trades, correct?

I did not. I've not had a chance to read all the press on it. Thanks for the heads up! Is this true of zero issues as well?

[Donovan]

It's working? Have you see Valiants monthly numbers lately?

Have you seen the numbers for the Valiant books that don't have incentive covers?

[jedimarley]

At first all the variants bothered me a bit but now I am okay with it. Whatever it takes for VEI to continue to produce a good product. Heck, I unfortunately, don't buy monthlies and wait for trades because it's more cost effective. My wife's education is getting in the way of my comics habit.

I've never understood the 90's backlash -- I loved all the "gimmick" covers then and still do, I still love flannel and 90's alternative music, bubble gum in baseball cards and Jodeci's first album always makes me nostalgic for the early Valiant days.

Alright, I'm going to go listen to a little Toad the Wet Sprocket.

You do know there is going to be story content in the Valiant First titles that won't be reprinted in the trades, correct?

Not story content. Behind the scenes bonus material.

[Donovan]

You do know there is going to be story content in the Valiant First titles that won't be reprinted in the trades, correct?

Yeah, nope. Simply not true.

Reread the actual news article, slower this time.

This technique is also used by Brubaker's Fatale series by Image. And even then, I've heard some of that that stuff is STILL included in the tpb.

(Ah, I see some beat me too it. )

[lorddunlow]

It's working? Have you see Valiants monthly numbers lately?

Have you seen the numbers for the Valiant books that don't have incentive covers?

Dang it! You beat me to the response!

+1

however, good luck with the milking-strategy, vei, and goodbye from me.

Sorry to see you go. See you next week!

sorry to see dysart disappointed about the direction he has to take, dictated by editorial and the so-called needs of surviving.

What's this about? I've been out of the loop for a few months. I've loved Dysart's work and I am sure he'll continue to do well with whatever constraints he is given but I'm curious as to what exactly he said in reference to being disappointed.

It's from some of his Facebook posts. Dysarts Facebook posts.

And taken out of context, and blown way out of proportion by placing meaning where there may not have been any (of which I am guilty).

Dysarts a writer. A very good writer. He knows what he's doing when he puts stuff out on social media.

He is a great writer. I have a feeling his ego got involved in those posts though, understandably so. I was really upset when I read the comments at first, but after digesting a little and re-reading, it just comes off as disappointment from Dysart. I think he just got the idea in his head that even though he was VEI's hired gun, they would let him have nearly absolute control of Harbinger and it's ramifications on the universe (I can see that - they gave him the reigns to direct Bloodshot and the entire HW series where he wanted). When VEI had to step in and make some suggestions and guide his hand to make some waves to help sales, it hurt him, and he let that hurt out on FB. All very understandable.

For us to then make assumptions that VEI is forcing stories for the sole sake of marketing, is a little rash. I'm sure it was more like "Josh, man, I know we've been pretty hands off, but numbers could be better. We've decided it's time to take this idea you had planned for issue #35 and push it up a little. We know you can make it happen in a way you'll be happy with, but we really need that death. If you want to change it up, that's fine, too. But somebody needs to die."

Of course, this is my own wild speculation and assumptions going on, but I doubt the doom and gloom we were all spouting when he posted on FB probably isn't warranted.

I'm excited about all the changes going on. I don't think Dino would refer to these things as a "series of right hooks" that they were patiently waiting to deliver if they were simply marketing gimmicks.

I know people are divided on VEI, but I'm enjoying their books (minus Q&W) much more than I did VH1. And as far as consistently liking almost everything a publisher produces, VEI wins by a long shot.

[krylox]

I googled "milking" and I don't think it means what you think it means ...

i'm german, so there's that. but i think you get my point, nonetheless

[bygranddesign]

He is a great writer. I have a feeling his ego got involved in those posts though, understandably so. I was really upset when I read the comments at first, but after digesting a little and re-reading, it just comes off as disappointment from Dysart. I think he just got the idea in his head that even though he was VEI's hired gun, they would let him have nearly absolute control of Harbinger and it's ramifications on the universe (I can see that - they gave him the reigns to direct Bloodshot and the entire HW series where he wanted). When VEI had to step in and make some suggestions and guide his hand to make some waves to help sales, it hurt him, and he let that hurt out on FB. All very understandable.

For us to then make assumptions that VEI is forcing stories for the sole sake of marketing, is a little rash. I'm sure it was more like "Josh, man, I know we've been pretty hands off, but numbers could be better. We've decided it's time to take this idea you had planned for issue #35 and push it up a little. We know you can make it happen in a way you'll be happy with, but we really need that death. If you want to change it up, that's fine, too. But somebody needs to die."

Of course, this is my own wild speculation and assumptions going on, but I doubt the doom and gloom we were all spouting when he posted on FB probably isn't warranted.

I'm excited about all the changes going on. I don't think Dino would refer to these things as a "series of right hooks" that they were patiently waiting to deliver if they were simply marketing gimmicks.

I know people are divided on VEI, but I'm enjoying their books (minus Q&W) much more than I did VH1. And as far as consistently liking almost everything a publisher produces, VEI wins by a long shot.

This is a great post but I just want to add my 2 cents here

When we watch a GREAT TV show or a Movie - do we not think there are arguments and compromises between writers, directors, studio heads happening all the time? Yet at the end of the day - its about the product. If the product is good - we rejoice.

Dysart might have to compromise his vision a bit in telling this story but I am confident that everyone involved has the best interest of the comic in mind and Dysart the professional that he is will deliver an amazing story.

As further proof, the last issue of Harbinger was one of the best of the series, IMO! So the quality is still there despite some creative clashes.

[jedimarley]

It's a shame that his writing skills don't translate into higher monthly numbers.

[lorddunlow]

He is a great writer. I have a feeling his ego got involved in those posts though, understandably so. I was really upset when I read the comments at first, but after digesting a little and re-reading, it just comes off as disappointment from Dysart. I think he just got the idea in his head that even though he was VEI's hired gun, they would let him have nearly absolute control of Harbinger and it's ramifications on the universe (I can see that - they gave him the reigns to direct Bloodshot and the entire HW series where he wanted). When VEI had to step in and make some suggestions and guide his hand to make some waves to help sales, it hurt him, and he let that hurt out on FB. All very understandable.

For us to then make assumptions that VEI is forcing stories for the sole sake of marketing, is a little rash. I'm sure it was more like "Josh, man, I know we've been pretty hands off, but numbers could be better. We've decided it's time to take this idea you had planned for issue #35 and push it up a little. We know you can make it happen in a way you'll be happy with, but we really need that death. If you want to change it up, that's fine, too. But somebody needs to die."

Of course, this is my own wild speculation and assumptions going on, but I doubt the doom and gloom we were all spouting when he posted on FB probably isn't warranted.

I'm excited about all the changes going on. I don't think Dino would refer to these things as a "series of right hooks" that they were patiently waiting to deliver if they were simply marketing gimmicks.

I know people are divided on VEI, but I'm enjoying their books (minus Q&W) much more than I did VH1. And as far as consistently liking almost everything a publisher produces, VEI wins by a long shot.

This is a great post but I just want to add my 2 cents here

When we watch a GREAT TV show or a Movie - do we not think there are arguments and compromises between writers, directors, studio heads happening all the time? Yet at the end of the day - its about the product. If the product is good - we rejoice.

Dysart might have to compromise his vision a bit in telling this story but I am confident that everyone involved has the best interest of the comic in mind and Dysart the professional that he is will deliver an amazing story.

As further proof, the last issue of Harbinger was one of the best of the series, IMO! So the quality is still there despite some creative clashes.

I definitely agree that Dysart will make whatever he does work very well. I also don't think Dino would let the product suffer just for a quick bump in sales. They are a business. If they don't take action to keep sales up, the books won't be made at all.

[lorddunlow]

It's a shame that his writing skills don't translate into higher monthly numbers.

Unfortunately, very good creative ability often does not translate to popularity. How many great TV shows are canceled only to be replaced by more crappy reality shows?