Eternal Warrior #5 Discussion

[BugsySig]

I just read this finally. Being new to this I have a huge question, lol. In the first arc Gilad didnt change appearance much from when his kids were very young to the point he met back up with his daughter. So why is he soo much older looking in this issue now in 4001. I understand 2000 years went by, but if he is the Eternal Warrior, why is he an old man now??

Apparently if he's not serving the earth he ages, just very slowl. So after less than 200 years he had a grey hair. 2000 years later I guess he has aged into his 60s or 70s. But he remains immortal.

[hawkeyeps]

I'm still a little confused as to how exactly Gilad's immortality actually works.

Correct me if I'm wrong but here is what I think we know.

Gilad died in the Faraway and his brothers tried to bring him back using the Boon, this made Aram "immortal" but what happened to Gilad as a result of this? I don't think we ever found out.

The only other time I can remember seeing Gilad "die" is when he was shot in the head in the 60s. He then floated off saw the Earth Goddess and was resurrected. I assume this is before he swore off serving the Earth? In fact if Gilad destroyed the Earth tree (what ever that meant) and was on the outs with Buck why the freak out in A&A #5 and the dedication to the new Geomancer Kay?

None of that seems to jive. We see Gilad and Xaran attacking the Earth goddess in the relatively recent past, when we see him in A&A he is flipping about Buck and bowing down to Kay. That also makes me think of Gilad's role in Unity- Why was he there? Was he contacted by Harada or did Kay tell him to go? Does the Earth know something about the XO armour and senses it as a threat now that it's here? Judging by the last appearance in the established time line before Unity, Kay and Gilad were working together as a classic Geomancer and Fist and Steel combo.

Maybe Gilad is resurrected young and slowly ages until he is resurrected again, if he didn't die for a long time he may age. If that's true he may also die in the future and come back young again. It's likely just artist interpretation but Gilad appears young in his first appearance in A&A yet he was older looking before that. Maybe he dies and the Earth says okay let's give this another try some where between the EW and A&A arcs, but then something would have to happen again because he doesn't seem fond of "Gods" in the future.

If I think about all of Gilad's appearances it's really hard to string them all together in to a unified story, of all the VEI characters his continuity poses the most challenges IMO.

[lorddunlow]

Gilad was killed (blown up and crushed by debris) in the arc with the Null - he was resurrected almost immediately.

[hawkeyeps]

Gilad was killed (blown up and crushed by debris) in the arc with the Null - he was resurrected almost immediately.

So what's the deal?

What is the power that brings Gilad back to life? Is it the Earth or is it a Boon thing?

[bygranddesign]

Yep, I definitely hear what your saying

There is a lot of confusion around the character with too many questions, open ended plot points and not enough answers. I love a good mystery but there seems to be too many continuity issues and inconsistencies that are troublesome and making me lose SOME confidence about whether they have a clear idea of where they are going with the character.

In 1877 he laid down his sword and didn't fight for the earth (this seemed clear from issue 2) ... yet like you said the Earth brought him back to life when he got killed in the 1960's. Why would the Earth do that when he wasn't supposedly fighting for her anymore? There might be a logical explanation but something tells me they just weren't that concerned with continuity and made a mistake.

And why did it take until 2010 for the *SQUEE* to hit the fan because he laid down his sword for the earth? I might need to re-read the arc but at some point the statute of limitations on blaming Gilad runs out.

I think Pak is a great writer ... and i'm digging the stories but they definitely need to sure up his origin story and all of these continuity questions soon.

[bygranddesign]

Gilad was killed (blown up and crushed by debris) in the arc with the Null - he was resurrected almost immediately.

So what's the deal?

What is the power that brings Gilad back to life? Is it the Earth or is it a Boon thing?

I think when you are sword for the houses you are immortal. The Earth Goddess brings him back to life. I think dedicating your life to the Earth is the price you pay for never dying. I'm just not sure why when he QUIT in 1877 - the Earth Goddess would bring him back to life in 1960. Maybe she just had a soft spot for him? Or maybe she still thought he would eventually come back?

I'm sure at some point during this current arc when we get to "present day" Gilad - it will be explained why he dedicated his life to the Earth Goddess again. (even after destroying the tree)

[hawkeyeps]

I think we need a pretty serious Eternal Warrior #0 issue here.

What happened after the first Boon, how did the Earth select him and why?

[lorddunlow]

Gilad was killed (blown up and crushed by debris) in the arc with the Null - he was resurrected almost immediately.

So what's the deal?

What is the power that brings Gilad back to life? Is it the Earth or is it a Boon thing?

I agree there are a lot of unexplained plot points in regards to Gilad, but there is plenty of room (and multiple approaches they could explore) to reconcile everything that has been written. I heard a lot of the same questions and criticism with Bloodshot because there was lots of mystery tied to the character. I liked that about Bloodshot and I'm enjoying it with Gilad and his corner of the universe.

Actually, if you look at my favorite books, they all have an element of "what the hell is going on?" to them.

[bygranddesign]

I think we need a pretty serious Eternal Warrior #0 issue here.

What happened after the first Boon, how did the Earth select him and why?

That question I expect to be answered in issue #0

but the continuity question marks are going to be harder to answer because Pak characterized Gilad as living in a hut since laying down his sword in 1877 ... and we know that that is not entirely true because of the 1960's flashback and because of another flashback in Unity in which he talks about fighting in one of the World War's (or some war from the 20th century)

[Brother Darque]

[grendeljd]

Yeah, I like Bernard too .. but I think Gill has a nice gritty edge to his art that fits well with what Pak is trying to create in this story.

I hope he is an artist VEI can lock up exclusively

They should move on him quickly before we have another Lee Garbett situation.

I started following him on Twitter after reading this issue ( @RobertGillArt). I saw a response there to a question about his Valiant work saying he is currently just doing this EW story arc.

[Michael_Ayer]

I think we need a pretty serious Eternal Warrior #0 issue here.

What happened after the first Boon, how did the Earth select him and why?

That question I expect to be answered in issue #0

but the continuity question marks are going to be harder to answer because Pak characterized Gilad as living in a hut since laying down his sword in 1877 ... and we know that that is not entirely true because of the 1960's flashback and because of another flashback in Unity in which he talks about fighting in one of the World War's (or some war from the 20th century)

I'm wondering if he just layer down his sword for the earth? I know he lives in a hut, but maybe he ventures out.

And maybe by 100 years, that is just an approximate and hence the 60's flashback.

Too many maybes.

[mateo107]

I heard a lot of the same questions and criticism with Bloodshot because there was lots of mystery tied to the character.

but in the case of Bloodshot, the character didn't know who he was, so it was an understandable mystery for the reader not to know either. in the case of Gilad, these questions are really just unnecessary confusion that could easily be resolved in-story. it frustrated me, for instance, that he couldn't have just explained to his granddaughter how his immortality works as they were talking along for several empty pages.

[hawkeyeps]

I think it would be okay if we were just seeing it as Pak is unfolding it but the problems and contradictions come up when you try to resolve this story with VanLente's in A&A.

Gilad's appearance in #0 and #1 were fine, it's the "Wrath of the Eternal Warrior" arc that started in A&A #5 where all the problems come up.

I never liked A&A #5 and thought it was a poor debut for Gilad, it was the first VEI book that I didn't like. I wondered at the time how they were going to make that all work, now there has been 12 more issues of A&A (13 including #0) and 5 issues of EW's own series. Rather than anything being resolved or explained it's just more mysteries.

With Bloodshot little mysteries were revealed which would then open up a new set of questions but the narrative moved on. With EW I just feel we are getting more and more loose threads without resolving and moving on from existing ones.

I listened to Darrell and Chris's Podcast interview with FVL and one thing I picked up was that A&A was supposed to be a 4 issue mini at first, I wonder if the Eternal Warrior's debut may have been rushed driven by marketing needs as opposed to "the right pitch"?

Perhaps the pitch from Pak is the one they really want for the character but that still doesn't mean they don't have to resolve the A&A arc. The thing I like most about VEI is the shared universe concept, too many inconsistencies impairs suspension of disbelief and my enjoyment of a comic as well as the over all universe. I think this is why Editorial is so important, they must have a plan but I'm not seeing yet.

[BugsySig]

I think it would be okay if we were just seeing it as Pak is unfolding it but the problems and contradictions come up when you try to resolve this story with VanLente's in A&A.

Gilad's appearance in #0 and #1 were fine, it's the "Wrath of the Eternal Warrior" arc that started in A&A #5 where all the problems come up.

I never liked A&A #5 and thought it was a poor debut for Gilad, it was the first VEI book that I didn't like. I wondered at the time how they were going to make that all work, now there has been 12 more issues of A&A (13 including #0) and 5 issues of EW's own series. Rather than anything being resolved or explained it's just more mysteries.

With Bloodshot little mysteries were revealed which would then open up a new set of questions but the narrative moved on. With EW I just feel we are getting more and more loose threads without resolving and moving on from existing ones.

I listened to Darrell and Chris's Podcast interview with FVL and one thing I picked up was that A&A was supposed to be a 4 issue mini at first, I wonder if the Eternal Warrior's debut may have been rushed driven by marketing needs as opposed to "the right pitch"?

Perhaps the pitch from Pak is the one they really want for the character but that still doesn't mean they don't have to resolve the A&A arc. The thing I like most about VEI is the shared universe concept, too many inconsistencies impairs suspension of disbelief and my enjoyment of a comic as well as the over all universe. I think this is why Editorial is so important, they must have a plan but I'm not seeing yet.

I agree with everything you said here. The thing is, all we know about Gilad can be reconciled very easily, but instead of just doing it (hopefully they will with a #0) they continue to dig themselves a hole.

We saw Gilad die again in #5 after the blast, and be reborn, so whether he "killed" the Earth in 2010 or in the future, he's still being reborn. I'm fine with that if we just get an explanation. I've posited that Gilad may have killed the physical manifestation of the Earth and it now can only communicate through other means like Kay's dreams/visions.

We've seen Gilad fighting in the 1960s and what appeared to be WWII. Again, I'm fine with that, just don't tell me he was tired of fighting and retired. Tell me he was tired of fighting "for the Earth" but continued to fight for what he saw as just causes.

We saw Gilad try to avenge the death of a Geomancer and bow before a new one. I'd get on my knees for Kay McHenry, too, but let's reconcile what happened between EW #4 and A&A #5 to put Gilad there, shall we?

[bygranddesign]

^^^^^^ agree completely with Bugsy

Another thing to add to the mix is the Geomancer confusion

Listening to FVL interviewed on a Podcast he admits to making a mistake in giving Kay the last name of McHenry. He didn't want her to be related to Buck McHenry. And it doesn't seem like FVL has any idea whether this character he created Kay will ultimately end up being related to Buck. Just some crazy cosmic coincidence that they both have the same last name?

I don't mind mystery and waiting for answers ... but some of these are just mistakes that should have been corrected by the editors.

These mistakes can still be corrected but Valiant fans have a love for tight continuity and its disappointing when there are so many inconsistencies.

[hawkeyeps]

We saw Gilad try to avenge the death of a Geomancer and bow before a new one. I'd get on my knees for Kay McHenry, too, but let's reconcile what happened between EW #4 and A&A #5 to put Gilad there, shall we?

Exactly, issue 5 seems to be following what was happening in EW 4 but the "Wrath of the Eternal Warrior" happened in between that. Personally I'm not going to let that slide.

I felt the same way about about Mary Maria and Armstrong sleeping together, I was like "oh great, now we have this in the mix. How will this resolve?" We still don't know what the deal is with the ghost parents and what was behind that decision and either way it still ruined Armstrong as a likeable character for me.

This was also brought up in the podcast interview with FVL and from the sounds of it he intends to leave that ambiguous which kind of tics me off although it's no surprise.

As with A&A #5 I knew this was a mess as soon as I read it, if the writer can resolve things satisfactorily then power to them and colour me impressed but if they just glaze over this stuff and don't resolve it then it shouldn't have been put out there in the first place.

This type of thing does the most damage to my enjoyment of VEI. I know some don't care about continuity in a shared universe but don't we already get a ton of that from Marvel and DC? It's VEI's care and stewardship of their shared universe that sets them apart from the other publishers. If they lose that edge what makes them different from anybody else?

Overall I think they do good job but they have to be aware of leaving too many key plot points unresolved for too long, sooner or a later that will lead to a Gordian knot that can not be untied and will have to be cut with a sword ala Marvel Ultimate/NOW and the DC new 52.

[lorddunlow]

Overall I think they do good job but they have to be aware of leaving too many key plot points unresolved for too long, sooner or a later that will lead to a Gordian knot that can not be untied and will have to be cut with a sword ala Marvel Ultimate/NOW and the DC new 52.

Look at me! I'm hawkeyeps and I use fancy terms! And I'm stinking Canadian too.

[Carson]

This just became one of my favorite comics as of this issue; it reminds of the way I used to feel when I read really great Valiant stories back in the day.

Same feeling here! When I sat this book down I just smiled and thought to myself "this reminds me of reading my first Valiant" (It was the Magnus Robot fighter vs Rai flip book)...

Not because they are very similar at all, but because there are so many opportunities for greatness in this story, and I cannot wait to see it unfold in front of me.

Kudos to Mr. Pak. I did not love the first arc's story or art. I loved the art AND writing in this issue, and I just hope the rest of the arc delivers at or above this level. If it does, Eternal Warrior might just move up to my #3 position.

[FormerReader]

This just became one of my favorite comics as of this issue; it reminds of the way I used to feel when I read really great Valiant stories back in the day.

Same feeling here! When I sat this book down I just smiled and thought to myself "this reminds me of reading my first Valiant" (It was the Magnus Robot fighter vs Rai flip book)...

I've had that feeling several times since VEI launched. This was one of them. I am very excited to see where the book is headed.

[jmatt]

... that will lead to a Gordian knot that can not be untied and will have to be cut with a sword ala Marvel Ultimate/NOW and the DC new 52.

Wow, plate of shrimp. I just read The Watchmen issue tonight where Ozy is going on and on about Alexander the Great cleaving the Gordian knot.

Listening to FVL interviewed on a Podcast he admits to making a mistake in giving Kay the last name of McHenry. He didn't want her to be related to Buck McHenry. And it doesn't seem like FVL has any idea whether this character he created Kay will ultimately end up being related to Buck. Just some crazy cosmic coincidence that they both have the same last name?

See, now this bugs me. I'm not so hardcore that I care much about whether there is an out of continuity reference to Gilad in the 60s or something. I'm happy to make allowances for minor continuity inconsistencies.

But how is it possible that they don't have a bible, a grand vision committed to paper, that lays out the major characters and how they are related and inter-related with names and timelines and major occurrences? Are we really flying by the seat of our pants from one arc to the next? How can they not know whether they wanted Kay to be related to Buck?

[leonmallett]

I found this a solid and satisfying start to the new arc. The script and plot worked well, even if nothing felt wholly original, it was strong nonetheless. The art was very nice. I look forwards to seeing where this goes.

On the continuity and timeline stuff; I think a #0 issue could be the solution, but honestly solid stories first, continuity second for me. Yes I would rather have both, but if the story takes me along for an enjoyable ride, I can overlook those things. In fact I would put plot and characterization before continuity, which points out the juggling act that story-telling is.

[jmatt]

In fact I would put plot and characterization before continuity, which points out the juggling act that story-telling is.

+1 If the story isn't interesting and I don't care about the characters, who cares about the continuity? I'd love immaculate continuity but it's secondary to character and plot.

[Captain Craig]

If VEI follows form then we are likely to get a #0 issue around the anniversary date of the title. So what was that, July/August?
The #0 issues have typically been filled with key details/facts for the title so it's a good place to address any hanging issues we might still have by then.

[MarrowMan]

Aram explained it in A&A 17 pretty succinctly imo. (or at least to me, anyway)